Something I don't get about this logic

[Momo86]

No they aren't Obito's own power. They are FORCED to obey. See your confusing them with 6POP who were dead bodies with no mind whatsoever.


When you say use your own power, you think about the person using their own body. Obito's 6 edo jins are not derived by his own chakra.. unlike Nagato's.

Sasuke's sword isn't derived from Sasuke, but he has it now. He can decide if to use it or not, cast it aside or sticking with it forever, he can lose it, and retrieve it.

Weapons don't have to be "generated from you" for you to win fights using them.

It has been made pretty clear since the beginning of the series that ninja are considered living weapon. Using (say) Han, or Fu, or Yagura's body is just the same as using a weapon for many ninja.

 

[Space Cowboy]

No they aren't Obito's own power. They are FORCED to obey. See your confusing them with 6POP who were dead bodies with no mind whatsoever.


When you say use your own power, you think about the person using their own body. Obito's 6 edo jins are not derived by his own chakra.. unlike Nagato's.


Dude your still not getting the point.. we aren't talking about the jutsu, we are talking about the people summoned with the jutsu.

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I guess im really not getting it then. Because the people that come with the jutsu are what make the jutsu so powerful. And they are all under Kabuto's control, excluding Madara, and if he wanted to completely take control of Madara as he did with other edos, he probably could. That scan proves what exactly?

 

[KingHashirama]

I guess im really not getting it then. Because the people that come with the jutsu are what make the jutsu so powerful. And they are all under Kabuto's control, excluding Madara, and if he wanted to completely take control of Madara as he did with other edos, he probably could. That scan proves what exactly?

nono see thats where you are wrong.

even a cat can be summoned by that jutsu, so would it make the jutsu strong or weak?

All aren't under Kabuto's control.. that is the thing. Hashirama can't be controlled, Madara can break out of it, and so can Tobirama.


And you wanted me to post the scan where Kabuto says it.. so I did it for you..

Sasuke's sword isn't derived from Sasuke, but he has it now. He can decide if to use it or not, cast it aside or sticking with it forever, he can lose it, and retrieve it.

Weapons don't have to be "generated from you" for you to win fights using them.

It has been made pretty clear since the beginning of the series that ninja are considered living weapon. Using (say) Han, or Fu, or Yagura's body is just the same as using a weapon for many ninja.

See now your comparing living things to non living objects. Those things are called "tools". People aren't tools..

 

[Space Cowboy]

nono see thats where you are wrong.

even a cat can be summoned by that jutsu, so would it make the jutsu strong or weak?

All aren't under Kabuto's control.. that is the thing. Hashirama can't be controlled, Madara can break out of it, and so can Tobirama.


And you wanted me to post the scan where Kabuto says it.. so I did it for you..

..But he doesnt summon ****ing cats, he summons former Kages and those with extremely powerful KKG. The vast majority ARE under his complete control if he so chooses. He doesnt even have Hashirama nor Tobirama in his arsenal so that is completely irrelevant. And no, that scan is you holding on way too tightly to words that dont even explicitly state Hashirama's superiority over Kabuto

 

[Momo86]

Itachi also found a way out of it, Hanzo and Sasori broke the seal restraining their will, and I forgot to say that even Shin did so they all escaped from Kabuto's control. Basically, though, Kabuto just cannot control everyone at once and exploit their full power. That much is certain. He could probably not even control them and move himself freely.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying Edo Tensei isn't a powerful jutsu, I am just saying it doesn't make the caster's power equal to the sum of ALL the reanimated ninja's powers.

 

[KingHashirama]

..But he doesnt summon ****ing cats, he summons former Kages and those with extremely powerful KKG. The vast majority ARE under his complete control if he so chooses. He doesnt even have Hashirama nor Tobirama in his arsenal so that is completely irrelevant. And no, that scan is you holding on way too tightly to words that dont even explicitly state Hashirama's superiority over Kabuto

CAN HE SUMMON THEM NOW???? No. The jutsu is still his power.. He has the power to bring the dead back to live.. But the dead he brings back aren't his power. HE STILL HAS THE JUTSU, BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE PEOPLE TO SUMMON ..

How the hell does it not state Hashirama's superiority over Kabuto.. when Kabuto himself is saying noone alive is on Shodai's level..

 

[Space Cowboy]

CAN HE SUMMON THEM NOW???? No. The jutsu is still his power.. He has the power to bring the dead back to live.. But the dead he brings back aren't his power. HE STILL HAS THE JUTSU, BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE THOSE PEOPLE TO SUMMON ..

How the hell does it not state Hashirama's superiority over Kabuto.. when Kabuto himself is saying noone alive is on Shodai's level..

But in his prime he had them all? So whats your point? At his prime, Kabuto > Hashirama all day. Does the 1000 hands jutsu count as Hashi's power even though its a summon? Yes. So do Kabuto's summons count as his power considering he can use them in battle? Yes. Was it not Kabuto who later himself claimed himself to be the closest person to the sage?

 

[Momo86]

sorry I thought this was a debate about the concept of "power ownership" in Naruto. I now see it was just another of those VS thread. My bad.

 

[KingHashirama]

But in his prime he had them all? So whats your point? At his prime, Kabuto > Hashirama all day. Does the 1000 hands jutsu count as Hashi's power even though its a summon? Yes. So do Kabuto's summons count as his power considering he can use them in battle? Yes. Was it not Kabuto who later himself claimed himself to be the closest person to the sage?

"in his prime".... that wasn't his prime.. that is what your not understanding. He never had everyone of them at his prime..... When Madara was out, Zabuza and etc were sealed.

And also, 1k Buddha is a CREATION OF HASHIRAMA.... lmaoo. its not even a summon.....

 

[Space Cowboy]

"in his prime".... that wasn't his prime.. that is what your not understanding. He never had everyone of them at his prime..... When Madara was out, Zabuza and etc were sealed.

And also, 1k Buddha is a CREATION OF HASHIRAMA.... lmaoo. its not even a summon.....

The point was that it was technically a summon... Just like the edos. But it was his prime, as it was well within his means to summon them all at once if he wanted to

 

[KingHashirama]

The point was that it was technically a summon... Just like the edos. But it was his prime, as it was well within his means to summon them all at once if he wanted to

But its not a summon.. its a statue he created and he controls. o-o.

And like i said, Kabuto already said hes weaker then Hashirama, so no point saying he is stronger.

 

[Space Cowboy]

But its not a summon.. its a statue he created and he controls. o-o.

And like i said, Kabuto already said hes weaker then Hashirama, so no point saying he is stronger.

Yeah, and Itachi said him and Kisame together wouldnt be able to take Jiraiya in a cramped hallway where Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu wouldve made that a 2 second fight. Once again, never explicityl stated. He then goes on to say that he is the closest person to the sage also. And it was summoned.

 

[KingHashirama]

Yeah, and Itachi said him and Kisame together wouldnt be able to take Jiraiya in a cramped hallway where Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu wouldve made that a 2 second fight. Once again, never explicityl stated. He then goes on to say that he is the closest person to the sage also. And it was summoned.

And your saying you know better then them?

Rule # 1 of defending a character.. never go against their words on how they stand against another character.

 

[Space Cowboy]

And your saying you know better then them?

Rule # 1 of defending a character.. never go against their words on how they stand against another character.

..I use what weve seen by the characters to determine the outcomes. Thats what everybody here does. Those that cling to hype for too long end up like all the Hiruzen fanboys

 

[6ari8]

Because they don't control their actions. The Uchiha disobeyed Madara; they didn't believe him and he left the village alone. Hashirama was respected and so his clan follows him but at any time they can simply walk off and do whatever they'd like. ET summons that can be completely controlled are the summoner's power, if he can't control them, they are not. For example, Hashirama isn't a part of Oro's power just like Madara isn't a part of Kabuto's power.

 

[HiddenSound]

First and last post, I'll make it quick. Edos are the product of Kabuto's Jutsu. Whether you like it or not, they're his power because
1. They are summoned by his personal Jutsu
2. They are, in almost every case, under his direct control.
You're playing chess against someone. It's like saying you didn't get checkmate when you won, you're queen did. See the problem there? You were the driving force behind your pawns, so you won. See what I mean?
I realize the comparison is a tad crude but it still works.

 

[reizon]

This is stupid.
you gave the right logic but even you yourself know that its not how it works

 

[aimop95]

If "controlling someone" or "forcing someone" or "manipulating someone" makes the person being forced/Manipulate/controlled your own power why is the Uchiha clan not part of Madara's power. Granted he cannot summon them.. but last time I checked summoning jutsu that allows you teleport things from point A to point B and reverse summoning point B to point A.


So for the people who make the ressurected people who are manipulate and controlled by Kabuto or Orochimaru count as their own power.. please tell me why is Madara's power not the Uchiha clan, or Hashirama's power the Senju clan. Both of the clans were controlled by those 2.

Tell me why are they a exception?

Are you asking why Madara can't summon forth an entire clan?

I don't really know what you are trying to get at...