Smoking ban with children in the car

Supacharjed

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Everyone in Europe is a socialist.

The question is just whether or not you are a "liberal" socialist (left) or a "conservative" socialist (right). Liberal and conservative distinctions in Europe define Globalist and State mentalities, respectively.

The idea of there being anything other than socialism is generally lost on most of Europe. It is not a meaningful political distinction. Which is largely why "conservative" and "liberal" discussions in America make no sense to the rest of the world.

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Hitler was convinced in the advancement of Germany over the rest of the nations. This contrasts with "Liberal" European views that believe more in the abolition of national borders and the unification of mankind under a single system of socialism.

Hitler embodies "conservative" views in European politics. National power and dominance.

The EU embodies "liberal" views in European politics - collective power and globalism.


You forget that in 1929 Hitler denounced Socialism.

And it ahould be noted that the May Day speech was an oppotunity to win over the workers and enflame the left wing parties.
 
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Aim64C

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You forget that in 1929 Hitler denounced Socialism.

No, I didn't.

Hitler was a socialist through and through, as evidenced by his correspondence and through his policies.



" Now that the age of individualism had ended, he told Wagener, the task was to "find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution". Marx and Lenin had seen the right goal, but chosen the wrong route - a long and needlessly painful route - and, in destroying the bourgeois and the kulak, Lenin had turned Russia into a grey mass of undifferentiated humanity, a vast anonymous horde of the dispossessed; they had "averaged downwards"; whereas the National Socialist state would raise living standards higher than capitalism had ever known. It is plain that Hitler and his associates meant their claim to socialism to be taken seriously; they took it seriously themselves.

...

So the socialist intelligentsia of the western world entered the First World War publicly committed to racial purity and white domination and no less committed to violence. Socialism offered them a blank cheque, and its licence to kill included genocide. In 1933, in a preface to On the Rocks, for example, Bernard Shaw publicly welcomed the exterminatory principle which the Soviet Union had already adopted. Socialists could now take pride in a state that had at last found the courage to act, though some still felt that such action should be kept a secret. In 1932 Beatrice Webb remarked at a tea-party what "very bad stage management" it had been to allow a party of British visitors to the Ukraine to see cattle-trucks full of starving "enemies of the state" at a local station. "Ridiculous to let you see them", said Webb, already an eminent admirer of the Soviet system. "The English are always so sentimental" adding, with assurance: "You cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs." A few years later, in 1935, a Social Democratic government in Sweden began a eugenic programme for the compulsory sterilisation of gypsies, the backward and the unfit, and continued it until after the war.

...

By the outbreak of world war in 1939 the idea that Hitler was any sort of socialist was almost wholly dead. One may salute here an odd but eminent exception. Writing as a committed socialist just after the fall of France in 1940, in The Lion and the Unicorn, Orwell saw the disaster as a "physical debunking of capitalism", it showed once and for all that "a planned economy is stronger than a planless one", though he was in no doubt that Hitler's victory was a tragedy for France and for mankind. The planned economy had long stood at the head of socialist demands; and National Socialism, Orwell argued, had taken from socialism "just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes". Hitler had already come close to socialising Germany. "Internally, Germany has a good deal in common with a socialist state." These words were written just before Hitler's attack on the Soviet Union. Orwell believed that Hitler would go down in history as "the man who made the City of London laugh on the wrong side of its face" by forcing financiers to see that planning works and that an economic free-for-all does not. "




" What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.

...

As Mises showed, to cope with such unintended effects of its price controls, the government must either abolish the price controls or add further measures, namely, precisely the control over what is produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it is distributed, which I referred to earlier. The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.

This was the socialism instituted by the Nazis. And Mises calls it socialism on the German or Nazi pattern, in contrast to the more obvious socialism of the Soviets, which he calls socialism on the Russian or Bolshevik pattern. "


Here is a fun one:



From the 25 points of the Nazi Party:

" 7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

...

9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

...

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

...

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

...

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

...

24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD "


What is it about "National Socialist" that you fail to understand?

And it ahould be noted that the May Day speech was an oppotunity to win over the workers and enflame the left wing parties.

It should be noted that Hitler believed there was alternative to the Russian method of implementing socialism. He believed it was possible to implement socialism without a civil war. That is what he believed, and that is what he did.

The governing structure within Nazi Germany and its economic policies were socialist. It is an outright denial of reality to insist that Hitler was not a socialist and that his party did not embody socialism.

Like I said - everyone in Europe is a socialist. The question is just where they believe that socialism should take place and who should be in control of the centralized planning.
 

Multiply

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Shit, I'm still patiently waiting for Obama to peel back the little flap on his forehead to reveal his third eye.

OT:

Second hand smoke doesn't have to be clinically tested. It's just common sense, especially in a small space.

[h=1]What is secondhand smoke?[/h]Secondhand smoke (SHS) is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS). SHS is a mixture of 2 forms of smoke that come from burning tobacco:

  • Sidestream smoke: Smoke from the lighted end of a cigarette, pipe, or cigar
  • Mainstream smoke: The smoke exhaled by a smoker
Even though we think of these as the same, they aren’t. Sidestream smoke has higher concentrations of cancer-causing agents (carcinogens) and is more toxic than mainstream smoke. And, it has smaller particles than mainstream smoke. These smaller particles make their way into the lungs and the body’s cells more easily.
When non-smokers are exposed to SHS it’s called involuntary smoking or passive smoking. Non-smokers who breathe in SHS take in nicotine and toxic chemicals by the same route smokers do. The more SHS you breathe, the higher the level of these harmful chemicals in your body.

That's not saying everyone who gets second hand smoke will die, that's me saying if you are in the vicinity of someone smoking, you will breath it in.

I don't agree with the law because as Slim said it's an overstep in my opinion. It should simply be common sense and you should not be smoking while driving anyway.
 

slimreaper

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No, I didn't.

Hitler was a socialist through and through, as evidenced by his correspondence and through his policies.



" Now that the age of individualism had ended, he told Wagener, the task was to "find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution". Marx and Lenin had seen the right goal, but chosen the wrong route - a long and needlessly painful route - and, in destroying the bourgeois and the kulak, Lenin had turned Russia into a grey mass of undifferentiated humanity, a vast anonymous horde of the dispossessed; they had "averaged downwards"; whereas the National Socialist state would raise living standards higher than capitalism had ever known. It is plain that Hitler and his associates meant their claim to socialism to be taken seriously; they took it seriously themselves.

...

So the socialist intelligentsia of the western world entered the First World War publicly committed to racial purity and white domination and no less committed to violence. Socialism offered them a blank cheque, and its licence to kill included genocide. In 1933, in a preface to On the Rocks, for example, Bernard Shaw publicly welcomed the exterminatory principle which the Soviet Union had already adopted. Socialists could now take pride in a state that had at last found the courage to act, though some still felt that such action should be kept a secret. In 1932 Beatrice Webb remarked at a tea-party what "very bad stage management" it had been to allow a party of British visitors to the Ukraine to see cattle-trucks full of starving "enemies of the state" at a local station. "Ridiculous to let you see them", said Webb, already an eminent admirer of the Soviet system. "The English are always so sentimental" adding, with assurance: "You cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs." A few years later, in 1935, a Social Democratic government in Sweden began a eugenic programme for the compulsory sterilisation of gypsies, the backward and the unfit, and continued it until after the war.

...

By the outbreak of world war in 1939 the idea that Hitler was any sort of socialist was almost wholly dead. One may salute here an odd but eminent exception. Writing as a committed socialist just after the fall of France in 1940, in The Lion and the Unicorn, Orwell saw the disaster as a "physical debunking of capitalism", it showed once and for all that "a planned economy is stronger than a planless one", though he was in no doubt that Hitler's victory was a tragedy for France and for mankind. The planned economy had long stood at the head of socialist demands; and National Socialism, Orwell argued, had taken from socialism "just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes". Hitler had already come close to socialising Germany. "Internally, Germany has a good deal in common with a socialist state." These words were written just before Hitler's attack on the Soviet Union. Orwell believed that Hitler would go down in history as "the man who made the City of London laugh on the wrong side of its face" by forcing financiers to see that planning works and that an economic free-for-all does not. "




" What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.

...

As Mises showed, to cope with such unintended effects of its price controls, the government must either abolish the price controls or add further measures, namely, precisely the control over what is produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it is distributed, which I referred to earlier. The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.

This was the socialism instituted by the Nazis. And Mises calls it socialism on the German or Nazi pattern, in contrast to the more obvious socialism of the Soviets, which he calls socialism on the Russian or Bolshevik pattern. "


Here is a fun one:



From the 25 points of the Nazi Party:

" 7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

...

9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

...

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

...

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

...

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

...

24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD "


What is it about "National Socialist" that you fail to understand?



It should be noted that Hitler believed there was alternative to the Russian method of implementing socialism. He believed it was possible to implement socialism without a civil war. That is what he believed, and that is what he did.

The governing structure within Nazi Germany and its economic policies were socialist. It is an outright denial of reality to insist that Hitler was not a socialist and that his party did not embody socialism.

Like I said - everyone in Europe is a socialist. The question is just where they believe that socialism should take place and who should be in control of the centralized planning.

I don't see how anyone can support socialism after reading those decrees. If they do then they simply can't view history.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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The same can be said smoking in your house, or smoking within 5 feet of a child out in open air. Where does it stop?

Oh look, a conservative using a slippery slope argument. You don't see that everyday.
 

-immortal-

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Perfect law.

First of al they're smoking, and then smoking next To your own child. How stupid can you be lol.
 

Supacharjed

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Oh look a liberal calling it a fallacy because they can't read a history book

Okay, I'll bite.
While the extreme cases of socialism are atrocious. Nazism and Communism

Provide a case against garden variety mild left Socialism.
 

baah

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smoking should be banned on earth...
 

slimreaper

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Okay, I'll bite.
While the extreme cases of socialism are atrocious. Nazism and Communism

Provide a case against garden variety mild left Socialism.

You can't. Socialism is giving all the means of production to the state. You can't do that without corrupting the government
 

SoundBar

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An adult should not smoke in enclosed areas where children are, plain and simple. Every child should be able to grow up without the negative impact of second hand smoke, anyone who disagrees is just ignorant.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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I don't get how the op could have a problem with this law
 

BlacLord™

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Pretty sure that law is in Australia too.

I support it 100%.

Smoking is terrible.
Children getting secondhand smoke is worse.

I want to outright ban smoking, although the fallout would be terrible.

This.

Stepping in on people's freedoms? I suppose you think the children who have inhale that crap have a choice to do so, right?

I've been in a smoker's car on more than one occasion and it was unpleasant to say the least but unfortunately, since the child is lower on the pecking order, they don't have the place to tell the adult to stop.

So rightly so, some other adult with authority has to do something on their behalf. Let the smoker waste away if he wants, but nobody should expect a child to have to suffer the consequences.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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It's pretty funny that the OP thinks that parents should have the right to give their children secondhand smoke, but women shouldn't have the right to join the military.
 

slimreaper

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I don't get how the op could have a problem with this law

It's self explanatory. I don't believe in government controlling persobal freedom. You would gladly give it away because is sounds good.
 

Fresco

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It's self explanatory. I don't believe in government controlling persobal freedom. You would gladly give it away because is sounds good.
You still haven't told us why a parent's freedoms hold more weight than a child's health. I wouldn't be surprised if you're an anti-vaxxer, tbh
 

slimreaper

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You still haven't told us why a parent's freedoms hold more weight than a child's health. I wouldn't be surprised if you're an anti-vaxxer, tbh

You would honestly rather live under a totalitarian government that to ride in a car with a smoker?
 

Fresco

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You would honestly rather live under a totalitarian government that to ride in a car with a smoker?
I guess since there's a fine for speeding, we're living under a totalitarian government now? This is why no one takes Libertarianism seriously.
 
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