Uzumaki Macho
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Like I said earlier saying that Zoro cant combine Asura and pound cannon is like saying Luffy cant use Gomu Gomu no Pistol while gear stacking or Sanji can't use Double DJ.
[Discussion] Smoker>Zoro my ass
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I wasn't comparing them in terms of strength, so i don't see the point. I just wanted to correct you on the Pica statement and Rikerslade replied quite well. I already know your opinion in the Smoker/Luffy/Zoro thing. But no, i don't think Smoker is tiers below them. I think however that he is inferior to them, not by a great margin, but weaker nonetheless
ultraChalk
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Woah. If you think Luffy can't dodge his inferior subordinates attack then all I have to say is woah.
Uzumaki Macho
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What? I dont think Zoro beats Luffy how did you gte that out of "we havent seen Luffy go all out"?
Bold: When did I ever say Asura wouldn't boost Zoro's strength? I simply stated Zoro has no feats in showing he can combine Asura with a cannon that's 3 times of 1080.
No it's interpretation, the consistency makes no sense from how all of a sudden after one huge attack Zoro is somehow getting the hang of fighting it's not like he figured anything out all he did was let off a big ass attack. Unless Oda shows me Zoro doing a 3240 cannon I'm sticking to my interpretation and until we either see Zoro use this attack or specifically state it's Pica he's getting how to fight you can't change my mind.
I never said Zoro couldn't combine them once...what I said was Zoro couldn't use that level of technique yet a cannon of 3240 would be over powered this early on in the New World considering what a 1080 cannon did.
Punk Hazard
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Great, here I go again.
Let's look at the facts:
1. None of the Strawhats have struggled with an attack since the timeskip since they've spent two years getting perfecting their attacks and getting stronger
2. Zoro's only struggle against Pica was that he couldn't track his movement, or get past it
4. He showed no struggle or imperfection utilizing 1080 Pound Hou
5. Right after saying "I've got the hang of it now", he hits Pica while he was moving, which he couldn't do before
As was clearly shown, Zoro's issue was hitting Pica, not his swordsmanship. Why would he say "I've got the hang of it now" to mean mastering a technique when he hasn't trained during his time fighting Pica, he hasn't done any kind of practice while fighting Pica, or had any, ANY, trouble using his swords since the Timeskip started? How does it make more sense for the line to be about overcoming sword troubles that Zoro nor Oda made any mention of, and not about the fact that he overcame Pica's movement?
I'm sorry, you're wrong. Plain and simple.
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Vandenre1ch
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For of all, Vergo>Pica. Theres absolutely no reason for Doffy's right hand to be second to anyone other than Doffy himself.
Zoro and Pica were stalemating until Pica decided it was a good idea to turn his back on Zoro. Zor....know what screw this. I'm just gonna be simple this time.
Law beat Smoker med diff
Vergo beat Smoker high diff
Zoro is casually med diffing Pica
Zoro>Smoker(barely)
Zoro and Pica were stalemating until Pica decided it was a good idea to turn his back on Zoro. Zor....know what screw this. I'm just gonna be simple this time.
Law beat Smoker med diff
Vergo beat Smoker high diff
Zoro is casually med diffing Pica
Zoro>Smoker(barely)
Uzumaki Macho
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Zoro wasn't even fighting seriously until Pica tried to attack his nakama. Vergo mid diffed Smoker. Vergo emerged fro mthat fight with barely any damage. Zoro at worst beats Smoker high diff.
Punk Hazard
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Not true. 98% of Vergo vs Smoker that people saw was anime filler. In the manga, all we saw was some movement, one punch, a vague Vergo and Smoker clash, both were unharmed, traded a few words, Smoker rushed in, and got defeated by Onitake. We have no idea how hard Vergo fought Smoker, but from what we've seen, he didn't get pushed to his limit. Especially since he didn't even use his full-body Koka.
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The right hand thing is a mistranslation. If Doffy ever had a right hand man, it was most likely Corazon and likely the future was destinated to be Law. Vergo was never his right hand man
Vandenre1ch
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Screw the anime/ Manga only. Being pushed to your limit is extreme difficulty. During the few panels of Smoker vs. Vergo, we see Smoker land clean hits. Seeing how both Smoker and Vergo's injures had pilled up nearing the end of their fight, its safe to assume that they traded blows. Vergo won the fight with moderate injures. It seemed like nothing because he's a tank and has high pain tolerance.
You've solo'd alot of people in the past Slade, but it'll be hellfire and brimestone if you I let you solo me. Not happening. Go away.
Punk Hazard
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Not true.
Granted, the fight was longer in the manga than I remembered. However, there's nothing there that indicates Vergo was struggling against Smoker. You say Vergo had moderate injuries because of immense endurance and a high pain tolerance. However, these are battle traits. If you can't even get past someone's pain tolerance and get past their endurance enough that you can't even make them cry out or flinch, then how can it be a high diff fight?
Smoker got in two hits.
From what we've seen, Sanji was able to get an equal number of hits on Vergo as Smoker did, yet you rank their fight lower than Vergo's fight with Smoker in terms of difficulty? Before you try to bring up the blood on their faces as signs that Smoker hit harder, Oda is inconsistent with his blood on characters. In this page alone, we see just patches of blood on Vergo's face in the panel above the panel of Law's heart, then right under that, we see a solid streak of blood. Inconsistency, and thus, a fallacy if you try to use it in your response to this. Even if it weren't a fallacy, both of Smoker's hits were to the face, while one of Sanji's was to the torso, meaning that Smoker's would do more damage to his face even if his blows are weaker than Sanji's because only one of Sanji's blows were to the face.
There is nothing that indicates that Vergo was pushed to his limits. He was casually dodging Smoker and didn't even use Full Koka. How could it possibly be a high diff fight if Vergo wasn't even in his final form?
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The fight between Smoker and Vergo and Sanji and Vergo was completely different.
In Sanji's fight Vergo wasn't shown using his arms nor was he shown using his CoA or his bamboo stick and considering Vergo is named 'Demon Bamboo Vergo' it suggests his bamboo is his primary weapon. Vergo completely overwhelmed Sanji who was going for the victory.
While in the fight with Smoker and Vergo it was shown Smoker wasn't going for the win and the fact he was using his usual strategies means he wasn't fighting at his full potential. Not to mention Vergo was using his CoA and bamboo stick to fight Smoker.
You can't possibly suggest Sanji did equal or even better than Smoker in his fight with Vergo.
well in that case vergo didin't use his legs vs smoker.and sani was just using normal kicks vs vergo.the 2 times he pulled out dible jamble he managed to hit vergo and damage him.vergo was bleeding out of his face when he left
Zoro is obviously a better SM than Law and he might actually has a better haki than him but still Laws attacks are stronger than Zoro's attacks thanks to his DF so we can't say that Zoro can cut Vergo like Law.
OT: IMO Zoro is clearly stronger than Smoker-kun.
Punk Hazard
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Hardly matters. Sanji used Diable Jambe for two attacks, then reverted to regular kicks. While Smoker had his Jitte and was using Koka. Vergo did less against Sanji is balanced out by Sanji doing less than Smoker, and yet, he was able to get in the same number of hits as Vergo. From what we saw between Vergo vs Smoker, Smoker's blows didn't affect Vergo any more than Sanji's did.
He pulled that attack in blink of an eye without any problems. I don't get what exactly made u believe that he struggled to use it. Zoro said that he's on a whole new level when compared to Pica. It wouldn't make sense for someone to use his best move (implying that he just learned that attack like u said) on someone and made such a claim as it won't take ur best move to beat someone if you are on a whole new level when compared to your enemy. Not to mention Zoro's attack didn't even took him down. Zoro has yet to show his true strength.
Like Bogard and Riker said Zoro was referring to Pica's ability.
Joker fodderized Law so the gap should be more than what you have mentioned in this post and same goes for Luffy.
Vergo at best mid diff's Sanji and Smoker in a one on one battle so here also the gap should be more and I believe that Smoker is stronger than Sanji and that's my personal opinion.
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Yeah but he used his bamboo which is his primary weapon hence the reason he was given the nickname 'demon bamboo' not to mention he was using CoA on Smoker and wasn't on Sanji and was still able to crack his bones. Smoker was able to make Vergo bleed off of his CoA hits.
Yeah it kind of does you can't simply ignore the fact Vergo used CoA and his bamboo stick (which I stress is his primary weapon) in his fight against Smoker and didn't against Sanji which itself shows if Vergo was evenly fighting Sanji with just his legs he would have destroyed Sanji with his CoA and his bamboo stick.
Vergo was able to damage Sanji with a non CoA kick how does that balance out? Not to mention the fight was stopped mid-way with Sanji admitting he would have lost if the fight had continued and take in mind Sanji didn't know Vergo used his bamboo stick so he was judging Vergo purely off what he saw so he was saying he would lose against Vergo who was just using his feet with no CoA.
But Smoker was able to send Vergo flying with just his normal CoA hits while Sanji had to resort to his more powerful moves such as Diable. The simple fact is Smoker was far more impressive in his fight against Vergo than what Sanji showed.
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diable jamble isn't a more powerfull attack anymore,sanni even uses it against fodders he didn't use it that much against vergo he just wasn't looking for an all out fight.the poison gas was coming fast and he only came to save tashigi
