[Discussion] Smoker>Zoro my ass

[Zorø]

What feats does Zoro have post time skip that put him above Smoker over than beating a bunch of fodders? Not to mention Smoker was shown to be fast enough that Luffy had to set the ground on fire for him to keep up also Smoker was matching and beating Vergo in speed which only Sanji was able to do and Sanji>Zoro in speed not to mention you go by feats what feat does Zoro have that beats Smoker in speed.

Smoker got one shotted please tell me how you know this? The fight was off panel not to mention you find it impressive that Dolfamingo was able to one shot an injured jitteless Smoker? When Doflamingo has been shown beating Law, Sanji and Luffy in the confrontations he had with them? Durable please Smoker took Haki hits from Vergo and still stood up, Sanji was hit once in a non CoA hit and had his bones crack.



No not really it's something called story consistency throughout the series Smoker and Luffy have been fighting so Oda wouldn't have Smoker at the level were he couldn't fight Luffy to an extreme diff fight that's what you call bad writing not to mention Smoker is going to be fighting Luffy again in the future so him chasing Luffy while being weaker than Luffy's second in command makes no sense.



You're looking at the Law vs Smoker fight in a very obtuse way, Smoker was over powering Law hence the reason Law had to use the strategy of blindsiding Smoker for a split second to allow Law to get a 1 hit KO technique in put Luffy, Zoro or anyone else in the same situation and it would have happened to them.



But Smoker was shown over powering and had Law on the run again you are looking at the fight in a very obtuse way and if that's the case the Yeti brothers no diff'd Zoro.



Yet it makes no sense for story consistency for this to be possible considering Luffy is Smoker's enemy not Zoro.



Well stop using it and prove feats that Zoro has that puts him above Smoker.

Smoker was overpowering a "Heart-less" Law get it? XD

 

[ultraChalk]

Did you see 1080 pound cannon? Smoker can not dodge an attack 3x stronger than that. Sorry dude but a Zoro that hasn't even gone all out yet has shown better feats than Smoker.

There are 360 degrees around a person, 360 possiblities for them to move to dodge an attack. Smoker can pick one an run with it.

And he can blitz behind him before he attacks him anyway, and there you go.

Furthermore 1 thing I don't think your understanding, that is a big disadvantage that sword users face against logias, is that all of his attacks... are completely vertical, or horizontal. There is no attack so thick that it cannot be dodged, not by Smoker by Zoro anyway. Pound cannon is slightly overrated, it's mainly useful for incapacitated or stationary opponents/obstacles.

 

[U mAd]

There are 360 degrees around a person, 360 possiblities for them to move to dodge an attack. Smoker can pick one an run with it.

And he can blitz behind him before he attacks him anyway, and there you go.

Furthermore 1 thing I don't think your understanding, that is a big disadvantage that sword users face against logias, is that all of his attacks... are completely vertical, or horizontal. There is no attack so thick that it cannot be dodged, not by Smoker by Zoro anyway. Pound cannon is slightly overrated, it's mainly useful for incapacitated or stationary opponents/obstacles.

smoker had 3 fights after timeskip got low diffed in 3 of them.as for luffy he would have been a match for any of them

 

[Bogard]

Zoro is faster than fishmen underwater, could cut 300meters limbs in 6parties in the blink of an eye, is a even greater and endurance beast tank than Luffy. Smoker on the otherside has one of the worse logia DF i've ever seen giving him no advantage whatsover besides flight and has to attack someone physically to win, and i never see him puting a tank like Zoro down that easily.

Not to mention Law could keep up with Smoker in close range battle despite not even being close to Zoro in terms of swordsmanship. Smoker is a close range fighter when Zoro not only is stronger than them in base, but has a mode(Asura) and powerful long range attacks(1080pound cannon or even more powerful) that he can infuse with haki(like against Monet). Smoker simply has no way to defeat Zoro by feats. His logia DF is the only thing that was saving him from the solo pre-timeskip

The Luffy's marine rival argument is non-sense as well. Law who is unrelated to the luffy/smoker thing mid diffed him. It would be non sensical to think it's Law who is that vastly stronger than Smoker/Luffy. People really need to wake up. Punk Hazard was to show Smoker's weakness compared to supernovas. Law's speech by defeating Vergo, Tashigi's shock by just feeling an once of Zoro's real power was going along those lines

Luffy, Law and Zoro are all stronger than Smoker, at least at the current moment

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

There are 360 degrees around a person, 360 possiblities for them to move to dodge an attack. Smoker can pick one an run with it.

And he can blitz behind him before he attacks him anyway, and there you go.

Furthermore 1 thing I don't think your understanding, that is a big disadvantage that sword users face against logias, is that all of his attacks... are completely vertical, or horizontal. There is no attack so thick that it cannot be dodged, not by Smoker by Zoro anyway. Pound cannon is slightly overrated, it's mainly useful for incapacitated or stationary opponents/obstacles.

3240 pound cannon will be around a mountain level explosion and Smoker has no feats to show that he can outrun the explosion.

 

[ChrisWolf]

well since zoro can now use haki and all smokers power does is make him impossible to hit without haki, more or less, and smoker fights with a sword.....but clearly not as good as zoro.....I don't it just seems to me that zoro would win.

 

[ultraChalk]

smoker had 3 fights after timeskip got low diffed in 3 of them.as for luffy he would have been a match for any of them

Nice to know you can no longer respond.

3240 pound cannon will be around a mountain level explosion and Smoker has no feats to show that he can outrun the explosion.

So let me get this straight, you think that 3240 pound cannon instantly 1-shots Luffy under all circumstances?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Nice to know you can no longer respond.

So let me get this straight, you think that 3240 pound cannon instantly 1-shots Luffy under all circumstances?

No because he haven't seen Luffy go all out either, he still hasn't stacked his gears which he should be able to do withut much problem now.

 

[xanonymosx]

zoro is a bad fight for smoker just face it man smoker dsnt have any feat surpass zoro at least for now

 

[U mAd]

flamingo-90
luffy-88
law-87
zoro-85
vergo 84
sanji 83
jimbei 81
smokeer 80
pica 77
smokers wayy down.

 

[TheHokage]

Please do explain how Smoker counters Asura:3240 pound cannon.

Well for one considering this is a made up technique that Zoro has no feats in being able to do it's not that hard.

tell me how smoker handles 1080 pound hou.other ans in quote @bold

How about dodge? He's not a slow golem like Pica.

Also you say there's no proof Smoker will keep chasing Luffy? How about the fact Smoker has never stopped chasing Luffy and it makes no sense story wise for him to stop as it's in character for him to do so. Not to mention Luffy has never defeated Smoker and the fact Luffy states he wouldn't want to fight Smoker unless Smoker was at full power implies itself Smoker is a challenge to Luffy.

You say Smoker may stop chasing Luffy after Punk Hazard? Because to me it makes sense that Smoker would keep chasing Luffy considering the two had been fighting since East Blue do you really think Oda would throw away the character development the two have had because you think Smoker is now going to stop chasing Luffy? Nope ever since the timeskip Smoker has been portrayed next to Law and Luffy.

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Now say what you want since time skip Oda has made it clear that Smoker is the marine rival for the Worst Generation and is also going to get stronger (foreshadowed by Vergo) in order to protect his men all the while chasing Luffy like how Garp did with Roger.

Did you see 1080 pound cannon? Smoker can not dodge an attack 3x stronger than that. Sorry dude but a Zoro that hasn't even gone all out yet has shown better feats than Smoker.

Zoro struggled to pull off a 1080 cannon so he can't pull of the same technique with 3 times the power yet. Also Law's mountain slice was more impressive than the 1080 cannon which actually didn't even finish off Pica.

Smoker was overpowering a "Heart-less" Law get it?

Vergo was over powering a heartless Smoker so what's your point? There's no evidence to suggest someone is weaker without their heart.

Not true. All the shit with them trading blows was filler. In the manga, the only things we saw were:

1. A slight clash here which produced a lot of smoke. All of that blood and damage on Vergo wasn't from Smoker, but from Law's Counter Shock earlier. As we can see, Smoker was bloodied up really bad, showing he was taking hits from Vergo, but nothing suggests he gave Vergo any hits.

2. Then we saw Smoker rushing to Vergo here, which resulted in a swift and utter defeat.

Smoker putting up even a decent fight, much less a very, very good fight, against Vergo never happened from what we've seen.

No I think your ignoring chapters and pages completely the fight between Smoker and Vergo was only shown really in 3 panels and 2 of them had Smoker getting the better of Vergo and it wasn't until Smoker went for Law's heart did he get defeated.

1)

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Smoker sending Vergo to the floor after beating him in speed, notice how Vergo is shown holding his head on the side blood was coming out it implies Smoker was the one who did that.

2)

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Smoker sending Vergo flying yet again with an elbow also causing Vergo to bleed.

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Do you see Vergo's statement? 'Those tactics aren't like you Smoker-kun' implying Smoker has another objective or if you like isn't fighting how he would usually fight which is another way of saying that Smoker is a lot stronger when he fights with his usual strategies.

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Do you see Smoker's arm going towards Law in the upper left panel the reason Smoker was hit in this page ultimately ending the battle was because he wanted to be hit he was fooling Vergo into believing he was going into an all out attack when in fact he was using the attack to get Law his heart back.

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See in this page Smoker stating 'Now we're even'? that implies Smoker had a reason to get Law's heart back and if you look on the same page you'll see the exact reason why since Law answers the question.

'You hate being in debt to a pirate that much... which shows Smoker from the start wasn't aiming to beat Vergo he was aiming for Law's heart so Law could get out his one hit finish attacks in which had Vergo not been so arrogant in believing his Haki could block it he would have been able to dodge.

Another thing is Vergo finally realizes what Smoker's plan was from the beginning and even comments on it in the upper right panel of the last page.

Now I don't know what manga you've been reading however these pages alone show Smoker putting up a good fight against Vergo despite Smoker's objective to not beat Vergo and retrieve Law's heart. In fact the anime made Smoker look far weaker.

smoker had 3 fights after timeskip got low diffed in 3 of them.as for luffy he would have been a match for any of them

I don't think you quite grasp the difficulty in fights not to mention...

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Luffy stating himself if Smoker can't go all out the fight would be annoying implying in his own body and at full power Smoker would be a challenge for Luffy and another little side note...Smoker while in Tashigi's body forced Luffy to go Gear 2nd and was also able to hit Luffy.

Also Luffy's statement 'Our fight will have to wait till next time' foreshadows Smoker and Luffy fighting again which as I stated before for story consistency requires Smoker to be stronger than Zoro as what would be the point in Luffy being Smoker's rival when Zoro could beat him and in some case like the one below when people think Sanji is stronger.

flamingo-90
luffy-88
law-87
zoro-85
vergo 84
sanji 83
jimbei 81
smokeer 80
pica 77
smokers wayy down.

So now you think Smoker is weaker than Sanji now I know your mad...not to mention no proof at all Luffy is stronger than Law.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Well for one considering this is a made up technique that Zoro has no feats in being able to do it's not that hard.



How about dodge? He's not a slow golem like Pica.

Also you say there's no proof Smoker will keep chasing Luffy? How about the fact Smoker has never stopped chasing Luffy and it makes no sense story wise for him to stop as it's in character for him to do so. Not to mention Luffy has never defeated Smoker and the fact Luffy states he wouldn't want to fight Smoker unless Smoker was at full power implies itself Smoker is a challenge to Luffy.

You say Smoker may stop chasing Luffy after Punk Hazard? Because to me it makes sense that Smoker would keep chasing Luffy considering the two had been fighting since East Blue do you really think Oda would throw away the character development the two have had because you think Smoker is now going to stop chasing Luffy? Nope ever since the timeskip Smoker has been portrayed next to Law and Luffy.

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Now say what you want since time skip Oda has made it clear that Smoker is the marine rival for the Worst Generation and is also going to get stronger (foreshadowed by Vergo) in order to protect his men all the while chasing Luffy like how Garp did with Roger.



Zoro struggled to pull off a 1080 cannon so he can't pull of the same technique with 3 times the power yet. Also Law's mountain slice was more impressive than the 1080 cannon which actually didn't even finish off Pica.




Vergo was over powering a heartless Smoker so what's your point? There's no evidence to suggest someone is weaker without their heart.



No I think your ignoring chapters and pages completely the fight between Smoker and Vergo was only shown really in 3 panels and 2 of them had Smoker getting the better of Vergo and it wasn't until Smoker went for Law's heart did he get defeated.

1)

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Smoker sending Vergo to the floor after beating him in speed, notice how Vergo is shown holding his head on the side blood was coming out it implies Smoker was the one who did that.

2)

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Smoker sending Vergo flying yet again with an elbow also causing Vergo to bleed.

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Do you see Vergo's statement? 'Those tactics aren't like you Smoker-kun' implying Smoker has another objective or if you like isn't fighting how he would usually fight which is another way of saying that Smoker is a lot stronger when he fights with his usual strategies.

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Do you see Smoker's arm going towards Law in the upper left panel the reason Smoker was hit in this page ultimately ending the battle was because he wanted to be hit he was fooling Vergo into believing he was going into an all out attack when in fact he was using the attack to get Law his heart back.

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See in this page Smoker stating 'Now we're even'? that implies Smoker had a reason to get Law's heart back and if you look on the same page you'll see the exact reason why since Law answers the question.

'You hate being in debt to a pirate that much... which shows Smoker from the start wasn't aiming to beat Vergo he was aiming for Law's heart so Law could get out his one hit finish attacks in which had Vergo not been so arrogant in believing his Haki could block it he would have been able to dodge.

Another thing is Vergo finally realizes what Smoker's plan was from the beginning and even comments on it in the upper right panel of the last page.

Now I don't know what manga you've been reading however these pages alone show Smoker putting up a good fight against Vergo despite Smoker's objective to not beat Vergo and retrieve Law's heart. In fact the anime made Smoker look far weaker.



I don't think you quite grasp the difficulty in fights not to mention...

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Luffy stating himself if Smoker can't go all out the fight would be annoying implying in his own body and at full power Smoker would be a challenge for Luffy and another little side note...Smoker while in Tashigi's body forced Luffy to go Gear 2nd and was also able to hit Luffy.



So now you think Smoker is weaker than Sanji now I know your mad.

How did he struggle with 1080 pound cannon? Zoro can use 360 pound cannon with 1 sword, 720 with 2, 1080 with 3, etc. I see no reason why he cant do 3240 with 9 swords. Thats like saying Luffy can't use Gomu Gomu no Gigantic Jet Pistol when he combines G2 and G3.

 

[TheHokage]

How did he struggle with 1080 pound cannon? Zoro can use 360 pound cannon with 1 sword, 720 with 2, 1080 with 3, etc. I see no reason why he cant do 3240 with 9 swords. Thats like saying Luffy can't use Gomu Gomu no Gigantic Jet Pistol when he combines G2 and G3.

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'I think I've gotten the hang of it' You're ignoring Zoro's statement itself and preferring to just look at the pretty pictures, the statement itself implies Zoro at the current moment in time has only just mastered a 1080 cannon assuming he can do the same attack 3 times as powerful is a baseless assumption you have and until Zoro proves he can use this technique which he hasn't it will remain a 'fanfiction' attack.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

This shit again?
Lol Smoker has nothing that even suggests Smoker>Zoro
Zoro's feats are more deadly and a sure kill...all Smoker uses is that fodder fists of his which Zoro would simply cut like he would do to Sanji's legs

 

[Punk Hazard]

Law didn't kick his ass, he was on the ropes the whole match. Vergo was on an entirely different level, so there's no shame in losing to him. And even then, he put up a very,, very good match.

The manga.

What the, it makes perfect sense. If Whitebeard gets high diffed by Roger, that means he's a little stronger than him. If Luffy dominates Coby, that means he's completely stronger than him.

Not true. All the shit with them trading blows was filler. In the manga, the only things we saw were:

1. A slight clash

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which produced a lot of smoke. All of that blood and damage on Vergo wasn't from Smoker, but from Law's Counter Shock earlier. As we can see, Smoker was bloodied up really bad, showing he was taking hits from Vergo, but nothing suggests he gave Vergo any hits.

2. Then we saw Smoker rushing to Vergo

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, which resulted in a swift and utter defeat.

Smoker putting up even a decent fight, much less a very, very good fight, against Vergo never happened from what we've seen.

 

[Bogard]

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'I think I've gotten the hang of it' You're ignoring Zoro's statement itself and preferring to just look at the pretty pictures, the statement itself implies Zoro at the current moment in time has only just mastered a 1080 cannon assuming he can do the same attack 3 times as powerful is a baseless assumption you have and until Zoro proves he can use this technique which he hasn't it will remain a 'fanfiction' attack.

He was talking about how to hit Pica. He was getting hang on how to manage it while he hides inside rocks. He was not talking about himself or his attack

 

[Punk Hazard]

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'I think I've gotten the hang of it' You're ignoring Zoro's statement itself and preferring to just look at the pretty pictures, the statement itself implies Zoro at the current moment in time has only just mastered a 1080 cannon assuming he can do the same attack 3 times as powerful is a baseless assumption you have and until Zoro proves he can use this technique which he hasn't it will remain a 'fanfiction' attack.

Like Bogard said, he's talking about the movement of Pica, not his technique.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

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'I think I've gotten the hang of it' You're ignoring Zoro's statement itself and preferring to just look at the pretty pictures, the statement itself implies Zoro at the current moment in time has only just mastered a 1080 cannon assuming he can do the same attack 3 times as powerful is a baseless assumption you have and until Zoro proves he can use this technique which he hasn't it will remain a 'fanfiction' attack.

Others have already disproven your statement. Even assuming you are right you need to remember that Zoro is 3x stronger in Asura mode so it would be the same difficulty for Zoro performing 1080 in base mode.

 

[TheHokage]

Others have already disproven your statement. Even assuming you are right you need to remember that Zoro is 3x stronger in Asura mode so it would be the same difficulty for Zoro performing 1080 in base mode.

Others have already disproven me? Just because that's your interpretation doesn't mean it's mine, why didn't Zoro just do this in the first place then if all it required was a 1080 cannon, also when Zoro performs Asura with this attack that's when he'll legitimately be able to grasp his strength again it's just baseless assumptions.

Also again even if far argument's sake you are right which I'm not ruling out as I'm open to different opinions it still doesn't change the fact you don't know for certain Zoro could pull of an Asura cannon with 3 times the strength as quite frankly he has no feats in doing so which again makes your assumption for him being able to pull it off baseless. Now also another reason as to why I believe he can't do it yet is because Zoro needs room for improvement it makes sense for Zoro to learn this technique as he travels the New World.

He was talking about how to hit Pica. He was getting hang on how to manage it while he hides inside rocks. He was not talking about himself or his attack

See above, besides we've already debated over this before so it's pointless for us to debate because neither of us is willing to accept the other's beliefs you obviously believe Smoker is tiers below Zoro and Luffy while I on the other hand believe Smoker is somewhere between Zoro and Luffy in regards to strength.

Like Bogard said, he's talking about the movement of Pica, not his technique.

But how does it make sense for Zoro to just use a huge attack and get the hang of fighting Pica? I mean if that's all it took then why didn't he use it from the start when they where fighting in the castle? All I'm saying is until we see more of the fight and more of Zoro's attacks it's still left to the reader's interpretation

 

[Punk Hazard]

Others have already disproven me? Just because that's your interpretation doesn't mean it's mine, why didn't Zoro just do this in the first place then if all it required was a 1080 cannon, also when Zoro performs Asura with this attack that's when he'll legitimately be able to grasp his strength again it's just baseless assumptions.

Also again even if far argument's sake you are right which I'm not ruling out as I'm open to different opinions it still doesn't change the fact you don't know for certain Zoro could pull of an Asura cannon with 3 times the strength as quite frankly he has no feats in doing so which again makes your assumption for him being able to pull it off baseless. Now also another reason as to why I believe he can't do it yet is because Zoro needs room for improvement it makes sense for Zoro to learn this technique as he travels the New World.



See above, besides we've already debated over this before so it's pointless for us to debate because neither of us is willing to accept the other's beliefs you obviously believe Smoker is tiers below Zoro and Luffy while I on the other hand believe Smoker is somewhere between Zoro and Luffy in regards to strength.



But how does it make sense for Zoro to just use a huge attack and get the hang of fighting Pica? I mean if that's all it took then why didn't he use it from the start when they where fighting in the castle? All I'm saying is until we see more of the fight and more of Zoro's attacks it's still left to the reader's interpretation

It makes a lot of sense. We've seen Zoro struggling to hit Pica while he's moving in his statue, but we haven't seen Zoro struggle to do a technique yet. He confidently used the 1080 Pound Cannon, meaning he knew it was going to happen. "I got the hang of it" clearly alludes to Pica's movement since prior to that, Zoro was having trouble hitting him while he moved, but had no trouble using his techniques. Why would Zoro use a technique he didn't absolutely know would work against a moving opponent that he's been unable to hit while they move prior to that? Especially when he's demonstrated monstrous attacks like his Dragon Twister and Crossing the Six Paths that would work better than a technique he hadn't yet mastered? This isn't a matter of different interpretations, you're kinda just...wrong.

And Asura would mean three 1080 Pound Cannons, and thus, three times the power, as Zoro has three times the limbs. If you seriously don't think Asura boosts Zoro's techniques, explain Kaku withstanding Zoro's techniques, but being one-shotted by an Asura technique.