Kurama doesn't even have brute strength feats to begin with. You only used its size, which is irrelevant. Kurama being larger doesn't make it physically stronger. In fact, Kurama is actually skinny compared to the other Bijuu. Hachibi's tails have restrained Sanbi that was moving fast with no efforts. He restrained Kurama inside Naruto's mind without even accessing to portion of Hachibi's power. If you want to go with real life logic, Hachibi is physically stronger due to possessing more muscles. If you want to go by manga logic, Kurama has no feats of physical strength, either; while Hachibi has. Pick one of them, and you will deduce your argument equals irrelevancy.
Again, Dimitri, you're missing the point. He restrained a fifty percent Kurama and not a full-powered one, not to mention that restraining Kurama in Naruto's mind is FAR from the same as restraining him in reality. The Kurama Gamabunta crushed was full-powered, so that in itself pretty renders your entire little argument above useless.
You must be registered for see images
Not to mention that, both objectively and portrayal-wise, Kurama has been shown to be the superior force time and time again. Yes, Kurama is stronger, so I see no reason for FDC not to be able to restrain the Hachibi, especially since it's a surprise attack and Gyuki won't be expecting it.
Again, Dimitri, you're missing the point. He restrained a fifty percent Kurama and not a full-powered one. The Kurama Gamabunta crushed was full-powered, so that in itself pretty renders your entire little argument above useless.
You must be registered for see images
Not to mention that, both objectively and portrayal-wise, Kurama has been shown to be superior force time and time again. Yes, Kurama is stronger, so I see no reason for FDC not to be able to restrain the Hachibi, especially since it's a surprise attack and Gyuki won't be expecting it.
LMFAO, you clearly don't even know what power and physical strength actually means. I suggest you go learn if you want me to take you serious. This is physical strength:
You must be registered for see images
Kurama being stronger than other Bijuu, doesn't equal to Kurama wielding greater physical strength than they do. That was the point I used for Bee to counter the toads with his physical strength of Hachibi. A UFC fighter can beat power-lifting competitor in a fight. Does that mean that a UFC is stronger when it comes to raw strength? No, it doesn't. An good example is Yonbi/4 Tails who easily threw Hachibi like a baseball bat. Therefore, Hachibi possess greater physical strength than both, 100% Kurama as well as 50% Kurama. Get that.
LMFAO, you clearly don't even know what power and physical strength actually means. I suggest you go learn if you want me to take you serious. This is physical strength:
You must be registered for see images
Kurama being stronger than other Bijuu, doesn't equal to Kurama wielding greater physical strength than they do. That was the point I used for Bee to counter the toads with his physical strength of Hachibi. A UFC fighter can beat power-lifting competitor in a fight. Does that mean that a UFC is stronger when it comes to raw strength? No, it doesn't. An good example is Yonbi/4 Tails who easily threw Hachibi like a baseball bat. Therefore, Hachibi possess greater physical strength than both, 100% Kurama as well as 50% Kurama. Get that.
Okay. Gyuki possesses more physical strength than Kurama, and four to five Bijuu-sized summonings are most certainly not going to hold one Bijuu down in the slightest way possible. Gotcha.
Slightly different when you're looking straight at the thing charging at you.
What I'm trying to express to you is that, even if Gyuki is strong, his strength isn't going to be of any use because he's going to be restrained by Kawazu Naki, which only one may perform leaving the other toad on Jiraiya's shoulders to collect nature energy for him so he won't leave SM.
Okay. Gyuki possesses more physical strength than Kurama, and four to five Bijuu-sized summonings are most certainly not going to hold one Bijuu down in the slightest way possible. Gotcha.
Slightly different when you're looking straight at the thing charging at you.
What I'm trying to express to you is that, even if Gyuki is strong, his strength isn't going to be of any use because he's going to be restrained by Kawazu Naki, which only one may perform leaving the other toad on Jiraiya's shoulders to collect nature energy for him so he won't leave SM.
It will only have half the power of the Jutsu, considering one toad is performing it. And also, Bee can switch with Hachibi; if that were to happen. The Jutsu won't work on Hachibi, due to the creature lacking hearing functioning. Bijuu are only masses of Chakra. Chakra doesn't get affected by sound.
The only problem he's going to face is Bee's Bijuu Transformation. But Jiraiya has experience in fighting huge summons/targets. And so do his summons. Hachibi may be huge but Yomi Numa can deal with huge summons/creatures. If i recall correctly he even said that it was tiny because something was wrong with his chakra? IIRC. Besides, He also has Food Cart Destroyer. (The Technique Minato used to hold the Kyuubi down) which could be a problem for Bee since he doesn't have intel on his techniques. Sure, He knows that Jiraiya is a legendary sannin famous for his ''Toad-Like'' Techniques but that doesn't make Jiraiya any less tricky. Even Nagato who had intel on Jiraiya struggled with him a bit.
Another problem for Jiraiya would be a Version 2 Bee. At this point, Bee's Speed and Durability increase whilst not feeling the drawbacks from his size. Jiraiya's Wild Mane Lion technique could prove to be helpful here, It's pretty fast and destructive.
And don't come with the Naruto V2 stuff because Jiraiya wasn't fighting with killing intent. (And he wasn't even in Sage Mode there)
I also don't see a counter for Jiraiya's frog song.
It will only have half the power of the Jutsu, considering one toad is performing it. And also, Bee can switch with Hachibi; if that were to happen. The Jutsu won't work on Hachibi, due to the creature lacking hearing functioning. Bijuu are only masses of Chakra. Chakra doesn't get affected by sound.
Killer Bee absolutely murks SM Jiraiya - this is a guy that was tangoing with shrouded 4th Raikage in base. He is faster than him and far more of a physical beast than him both in strength as well as Taijutsu [and Kenjutsu] prowess in general. Any CQC confrontation will result in Jiraiya having his torso blown open ala Kisame / Sasuke. Jiraiya's beloved Yomi Numa is casually countered with Raiton flow. This is all without factoring in Hachibi. Jiraiya's only real chance here is to prep Frog Song.
When Bee uses V1 or V2 cloaked forms, it becomes a very one-sided battle. None of Jiraiya's attacks will be able to hit him in that state due to the large speed disparity, and even if they do, they will hardly do any damage. Base Bee's durability is already insane, and adding Bijuu cloak to it simply increases it. With his Bijuu, Genjutsu becomes a non-issue.
Throw in full Bijuu Mode, and it becomes an utter massacre. BM Bee nukes Jiraiya and anything he summons to hell with continuous Bijuudama.
1). The barrier large is irrelevant. Bee has shown to cross mountain distances in a split of second, and that was only his base speed: [
You must be registered for see links
]. Keep it in mind that he was electrocuted, so his nerve system would slow his movements down. In V1, he will blitz the shit of Jiraiya. [
You must be registered for see links
] The barrier alerting him is irrelevant, because Jiraiya's reactions and movements have not been impressive in all of his fights. He is fighting against brutal Taijutsu user boosted with Bjuu power. That wasn't Frog Kata. It was a kick, nothing more. The two frogs aren't the one combating Bee, so their sensing is irrelevant. Not to mention they couldn't sense Asura path from a behind, a point you keep ignoring.
2). Naruto's Chakra supplies are far larger than Jiraiya's. First, he is an Uzumaki who naturally inherited a supply of Chakra that is above an average. Minato mastered SM. Does that mean he can replicate Naruto's feats? No, it doesn't. I have literally no reason to believe that Jiraiya can replicate what Naruto. His fight against Pain, he ran out of Chakra after around 4 chapters; whereas Naruto ran out after 15 chapters, and given off that Naruto's techniques uses more Chakra than Jiraiya.
3) Yes, it is. Hachibi is a mountain size beast. Unless you think that Jiraiya can sink a mountain effortlessly, then you're fanboying. Frog Call requires both Sennin frogs to jump of his shoulder, which will return Jiraiya back to his base form due to unable to gather natural energy on his own. [
You must be registered for see links
] He wouldn't be vulnerable to Jiraiya's attacks, cause they're fodder and tanked without damage.
1) I don't completely understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying the barrier's size is irrelevant because Bee is too fast? Because that's not the case. Jugo reacted to Bee's 'blitz' without a barrier, so there's no doubt Sage Mode Jiraiya can. Size does matter, Jiraiya will know exactly where Bee is coming from the moment he enters the barrier, and since the barrier is so huge it will take longer for Bee to traverse the distance between the edge of the barrier to where Jiraiya is - so even if it just takes a second, Jiraiya can react by getting an early warning. Why do you think that wasn't frog kata? He blinded the Pain with just one kick, and even if it wasn't frog kata it is certainly an excellent reaction feat. The two frogs are perched on Jiraiya's shoulders so they can alert him if Bee is coming.
As for Asura Path sneaking up from behind? They had thought the enemy was defeated and their guard was completely let down; why was Madara, who reacted to a FTG blitz, unable to sense Black Zetsu sneaking up behind him and murking him? Why was current Naruto, the best sensor in the manga, unable to sense Kaguya sneaking up behind him and Sasuke? It's because they let their guards down.
2) Please just stop. I am not trying to be rude, but it's blantant ignorance to suggest Jiraiya isn't capable of making multiple kage bunshins. Chapter 1 Naruto was able to make hundreds of shadow clones against Mizuki, yet he could barely summon a tadpole in a later arc. Jiraiya can summon Gamabunta in base with ease - and if you use logic, you can deduce that Jiraiya is capable, especially in Sage Mode, of making multiple shadow clones with ease. Also Jiraiya never ran out of chakra against Pain, don't know why you said that...
3) Do you need me to do size comparisons? Because I will. This might take a while.
So, first off let's look at the size of the snake Jiraiya took down with his swamp.
You must be registered for see images
Now let's compare the size of that snake to Gamabunta.
You must be registered for see images
I'd say Bunta is around twice the size of that snake, and that's being generous considering we can only see half the snake in the picture due to most of it of it being submerged. Gamabunta doesn't dwarf it at all. Now let's compare Gamabunta to a tailed beast.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Gamabunta is about the size of the Ichibi (i can pull out more scans if you like.) Now let's look at the Ichibi in comparison to the Hachibi.
You must be registered for see images
Ichibi is about the size of the Hachibi. Conclusion: Gamabunta is about the size of the Hachibi.
And now we look at the swamp. 30% Base Jiraiya made that swamp, so a normal swamp made by base Jiraiya would be more than three times as big. Therefore, base Jiraiya could sink the Hachibi. And then we add in the Sage Mode factor, which turns
You must be registered for see links
into
You must be registered for see links
, and we get a swamp that easily is clearly large enough to sink the Hachibi and any statement saying otherwise would be pure fanboying.
And lastly, about Frog Call: they don't need to jump off Jiraiya's shoulders. They never were on Naruto's shoulders in the first place (
You must be registered for see links
). Naruto stayed grounded because he was running forward, making shadow clones, and helping them form rasengans while Ma and Pa were paralyzing the summons
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
. So the only reason they jumped up is so they could get a better aim at the summons and not paralyze Naruto in the process.
Killer Bee absolutely murks SM Jiraiya - this is a guy that was tangoing with shrouded 4th Raikage in base. He is faster than him and far more of a physical beast than him both in strength as well as Taijutsu [and Kenjutsu] prowess in general. Any CQC confrontation will result in Jiraiya having his torso blown open ala Kisame / Sasuke. Jiraiya's beloved Yomi Numa is casually countered with Raiton flow. This is all without factoring in Hachibi. Jiraiya's only real chance here is to prep Frog Song.
When Bee uses V1 or V2 cloaked forms, it becomes a very one-sided battle. None of Jiraiya's attacks will be able to hit him in that state due to the large speed disparity, and even if they do, they will hardly do any damage. Base Bee's durability is already insane, and adding Bijuu cloak to it simply increases it. With his Bijuu, Genjutsu becomes a non-issue.
Throw in full Bijuu Mode, and it becomes an utter massacre. BM Bee nukes Jiraiya and anything he summons to hell with continuous Bijuudama.
It will only have half the power of the Jutsu, considering one toad is performing it. And also, Bee can switch with Hachibi; if that were to happen. The Jutsu won't work on Hachibi, due to the creature lacking hearing functioning. Bijuu are only masses of Chakra. Chakra doesn't get affected by sound.
It's like bee is standing still in this match the way some ppl are making deductions. Jiraiya is not nearly as fast as minato (even minato did it w/o kyuubi being aware of his presence and kyuubi was even on rampage not thinking straight). So forget jiraiya summonin toads ontop bee in this match especially when bee is much faster too. Also the moment bee brings out v2 jiraiya better run or he will recieve a lariat to his broad chest. Tbb, whirlwind and multiple tbb, jiraiya is the one that will be on the defence throughout this match.
