SM Jiraiya vs Killer Bee

[Airi]

I think Jiraiya has a far better chance than a lot of you think.

I agree with this.

 

[slimreaper]

Killer Bee stomps the living shit.

Jiraiya can't compete with him in CQC. Bee demonstrated far greater speed, physical power and added with his Bijuu power. Jiraiya lacks the Sennin mode sensing, as evident that Asura catched him off-guard. Killer Bee overwhelmed Sasuke with the sword dance. His movements are so fast that Sharingan cannot read it. Jiraiya will end being stabbed by each sword. Jiraiya's summonings are irrelevant. They get ridden of Bee's Bijuu shock-wave. Most of Jiraiya's attacks will be tanked by the durability of the Bijuu cloak. Killer Bee can end it with Lariat.​

Bee didn't purely overwhelm sasuke. He didn't land a hit until they clashed raitons. with intel, sasuke never gets hit

Jiraiya can react to Bee's quick movements by detecting them before he gets near, using his sensing barrier. Look at how huge it is, it easily encompassed Gamabunta

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Since Jiraiya can react to Bee's quick attacks in base/V1/V2, he can counter with a massive rasengan.

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Now 1 rasengan probably isn't enough to put down Bee in V2. So Jiraiya could replicate Naruto's feat and crush him with a Massive Rasengan Barrage

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In the event that Bee goes full BM, Ma and Pa use Frog Call to paralyze him

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Then Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa to sink him

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And to make sure Bee sinks deep into the swamp Jiraiya slams Bunta on top of him with Food Cart Destroyer

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Then Jiraiya dries up the swamp with this, entombing Bee deep within the earth

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(it's pretty much the same strategy the Shinobi Alliance used on the juubi)

Bee's raiton would get him out of the doton based swamp easily

 

[LustyLover]

@Reaper, Bee can't even use Raiton while in Bijuu form. @Dimitri, Fukasaku and Shima do not need to jump off his shoulders in order to incapaciatate their opponents.

 

[Bronze]

Bee didn't purely overwhelm sasuke. He didn't land a hit until they clashed raitons. with intel, sasuke never gets hit

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@Dimitri, Fukasaku and Shima do not need to jump off his shoulders in order to incapaciatate their opponents.

Too bad the manga showed this.​

 

[slimreaper]

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Too bad the manga showed this.​

What im saying is it wasn't that the sharingan couldn't keep up, it was that bee was just so much stronger than sasuke

EX:

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It wasn't that sasuke's eyes couldn't keep up, it was sasuke not being able to physically match killer bee

 

[LuckyMan]

What im saying is it wasn't that the sharingan couldn't keep up, it was that bee was just so much stronger than sasuke

EX:

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It wasn't that sasuke's eyes couldn't keep up, it was sasuke not being able to physically match killer bee

But even if Sasuke had intel and knew about Bee's seven swords dance, that would not make him able to keep up because his body still lacks the reflexes and physical ability to do so.

 

[Bronze]

What im saying is it wasn't that the sharingan couldn't keep up, it was that bee was just so much stronger than sasuke

EX:

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It wasn't that sasuke's eyes couldn't keep up, it was sasuke not being able to physically match killer bee

Okay, I agree.​

 

[slimreaper]

But even if Sasuke had intel and knew about Bee's seven swords dance, that would not make him able to keep up because his body still lacks the reflexes and physical ability to do so.

he could have kept up longer, if he knew bee could match his raiton sword.

 

[LustyLover]

Too bad the manga showed this.​

It showed them doing so but never implied or stated that it was the only way for them to execute their technique. The technique they're using is one that uses their mouth and emits sound in order to paralyze their prey. They used Gama Rinsho which does precisely the same thing as Frog Call while on his shoulders, so we have no reason to believe that they cannot use FC while on his shoulders as well.

 

[Bronze]

It showed them doing so but never implied or stated that it was the only way for them to execute their technique. The technique they're using is one that uses their mouth and emits sound in order to paralyze their prey. They used Gama Rinsho which does precisely the same thing as Frog Call while on his shoulders, so we have no reason to believe that they cannot use FC while on his shoulders as well.

They used Gama Rinsho while remaining on his shoulder, because the technique can be executed while on his shoulders. They would not have jumped off Naruto's shoulders to use it, so I am going with what the manga has shown.​

 

[LustyLover]

They used Gama Rinsho while remaining on his shoulder, because the technique can be executed while on his shoulders. They would not have jumped off Naruto's shoulders to use it, so I am going with what the manga has shown.​

No. The technique was never stated to have to be used specifically while off his shoulders nor implied, so Fukasaku and Shima can still use it while on them.

 

[Bronze]

No. The technique was never stated to have to be used specifically while off his shoulders nor implied, so Fukasaku and Shima can still use it while on them.

And it never stated to be used specifically on his shoulders or implied, so the burden of proof is on you. Since the manga showed they getting off Naruto's shoulders to execute it, this is what the case will be; and an opinion is going to change it.​

 

[LustyLover]

And it never stated to be used specifically on his shoulders or implied, so the burden of proof is on you. Since the manga showed they getting off Naruto's shoulders to execute it, this is what the case will be; and an opinion is going to change it.​

Doesn't matter. If they jump off his shoulders, Bee is still paralyzed, leading to Jiraiya submerging him into his swamp, crushing him into it even further with Food Cart Destroyer, and leaving him even more stuck in it by drying it with a Juubi-sized Katon.

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Edit: that Katon is Jiraiya's while he was at merely 30 percent power. His real Katon would be much larger. Bee doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Bronze]

Doesn't matter. If they jump off his shoulders, Bee is still paralyzed, leading to Jiraiya submerging him into his swamp, crushing him into it even further with Food Cart Destroyer, and leaving him even more stuck in it by drying it with a Juubi-sized Katon.

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Edit: that Katon is Jiraiya's while he was at merely 30 percent power. His real Katon would be much larger. Bee doesn't stand a chance.

No, because if they jump off his shoulder to perform the Jutsu, he is out Sennin mode due to unable to gather natural energy on his own. Once that happens, his Doton is significantly weaker. Food Cart is held by Hachibi's tails as it did to Sanbi. Juubi sized Katon? Get your eyes check. That Katon isn't even on Obito's or Madara's level. Regardless, Hachibi will tank the burns. He tanked Yonbi's Yoton: [

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]. He was able to withstand Amatersu long enough to cut its tails. Both Jutsu have higher heat than Jiraiya's.​

 

[LustyLover]

No, because if they jump off his shoulder to perform the Jutsu, he is out Sennin mode due to unable to gather natural energy on his own. Once that happens, his Doton is significantly weaker. Food Cart is held by Hachibi's tails as it did to Sanbi. Juubi sized Katon? Get your eyes check. That Katon isn't even on Obito's or Madara's level. Regardless, Hachibi will tank the burns. He tanked Yonbi's Yoton: [

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]. He was able to withstand Amatersu long enough to cut its tails. Both Jutsu have higher heat than Jiraiya's.​

His Doton is going to be weaker because he's out of his SM? Is that a joke?

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That's his Doton while he was at thirty percent power. That alone is enough to submerge the Hachibi. Its size will be increased by three times in length, width, and depth because he's going to be at full power here. Him leaving SM isn't going to vitally affect his Doton at all.

Sure, let's say Gyuuki can catch one of his summonings, which, by the way, shouldn't be possible seeing as how Kurama, who is much larger than Gyuuki, was crushed by it. After Gyuuki catches Gamahiro, Jiraiya promptly summons Gamaken, further pushing him into the colossal Swamp. If Gyuuki is still upright, Jiraiya summons ANOTHER summoning, and this time it's Gamabunta, who easily crushed Kurama. If Jiraiya wants to go even further, he summons AGAIN this time in the form of Gamakichi who is now equal to Gamabunta in size. There's no way the Hachibi is holding all of this "with his tails." The Hachibi won't be able to hold them all if someone who was stronger than him (Kurama) couldn't even hold one.

That's his Katon at thirty percent power, as he was poisoned by Tsunade, depleting his chakra levels almost completely. With him at full power, the Katon will at least be double to triple in size when compared to the original Katon in that scan. The size of that Katon in that scan is still easily Bijuu-sized which is all that's needed. It's not about "tanking" the burns. It's about drying the Swamp so Gyuuki can't move in the slightest way possible.

Once this is all done, Jiraiya easily crosses the distance while Gyuuki is stuck with his advanced Sennin speed and performs Gogyō Kaiin, promptly ending any further Bijuu-transformation.

 

[Bronze]

His Doton is going to be weaker because he's out of his SM? Is that a joke?

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That's his Doton while he was at thirty percent power. That alone is enough to submerge the Hachibi. Its size will be increased by three times in length, width, and depth because he's going to be at full power here. Him leaving SM isn't going to vitally affect his Doton at all.

Sure, let's say Gyuuki can catch one of his summonings, which, by the way, shouldn't be possible seeing as how Kurama, who is much larger than Gyuuki, was crushed by it. After Gyuuki catches Gamahiro, Jiraiya promptly summons Gamaken, further pushing him into the colossal Swamp. The Hachibi won't be able to hold both if someone who was stronger than him (Kurama) couldn't even hold one.

That's his Katon at thirty percent power, as he was poisoned by Tsunade, depleting his chakra levels almost completely. With him at full power, the Katon will at least be double to triple in size when compared to the original Katon in that scan. The size of that Katon in that scan is still easily Bijuu-sized which is all that's needed. It's not about "tanking" the burns. It's about drying the Swamp so Gyuuki can't move in the slightest way possible.

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The Doton isn't Bijuu sized. Gamabunta dwarfed it. Jinchuuriki with the power to control his Bijuu is more powerful than the Bijuu itself. The Bijuu's manipulated by Obito already failed to attack Bee with surprise attacks: [

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] The Bijuu's are far more powerful than those toads who can be obliterated instantly. So don't mention them because they're irrelevant. Bee with less 1/4 of Hachibi's power held Kurama inside Naruto's mind, effortlessly.

The Swamp isn't sinking Bee. Hachibi is extremely. Its mass and weight can resist the mud. He can counter with his Bijuu shock-wave, or with Raiton, or Whirlwind.​

 

[LustyLover]

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The Doton isn't Bijuu sized. Gamabunta dwarfed it. Jinchuuriki with the power to control his Bijuu is more powerful than the Bijuu itself. The Bijuu's manipulated by Obito already failed to attack Bee with surprise attacks: [

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] The Bijuu's are far more powerful than those toads who can be obliterated instantly. So don't mention them because they're irrelevant. Bee with less 1/4 of Hachibi's power held Kurama inside Naruto's mind, effortlessly.

The Swamp isn't sinking Bee. Hachibi is extremely. Its mass and weight can resist the mud. He can counter with his Bijuu shock-wave, or with Raiton, or Whirlwind.​

The Doton is of that size because of Jiraiya's chakra depletion at the time; he even mentioned it was incredibly small compared to what he could usually make. With him being at full power and SM enhancing his chakra as well as the size of all his techniques by a shitload of an amount, the Hachibi stands no chance when going against the Swamp.

The Swamp will easily sink Bee. While Gyuki is strong, he can't counter with any of the above mentionings because FC will not enable him to do so. And, yes, four Bijuu-sized summonings are enough to crush Gyuki when Kurama couldn't even withstand the weight of one.

 

[Bronze]

The Doton is of that size because of Jiraiya's chakra depletion at the time; he even mentioned it was incredibly small compared to what he could usually make. With him being at full power and SM enhancing his chakra as well as the size of all his techniques by a shitload of an amount, the Hachibi stands no chance when going against the Swamp.

The Swamp will easily sink Bee. While Gyuki is strong, he can't counter with any of the above mentionings because FC will not enable him to do so. And, yes, four Bijuu-sized summonings are enough to crush Gyuki when Kurama couldn't even withstand the weight of one.

It doesn't matter. It gets countered as I have mentioned.

You're just repeating what you said previously, instead of actually countering what I proposed. All of the bold is countered without even using Bee's full capabilities.​

 

[LustyLover]

It doesn't matter. It gets countered as I have mentioned.

You're just repeating what you said previously, instead of actually countering what I proposed. All of the bold is countered without even using Bee's full capabilities.​

I have to because you haven't countered it in the first place. Kurama's brute strength remained the same whether he was controlled or not; nowhere in the manga was it stated otherwise.

 

[Bronze]

I have to because you haven't countered it in the first place. Kurama's brute strength remained the same whether he was controlled or not; nowhere in the manga was it stated otherwise.

Kurama doesn't even have brute strength feats to begin with. You only used its size, which is irrelevant. Kurama being larger doesn't make it physically stronger. In fact, Kurama is actually skinny compared to the other Bijuu. Hachibi's tails have restrained Sanbi that was moving fast with no efforts. He restrained Kurama inside Naruto's mind without even accessing to portion of Hachibi's power. If you want to go with real life logic, Hachibi is physically stronger due to possessing more muscles. If you want to go by manga logic, Kurama has no feats of physical strength, either; while Hachibi has. Pick one of them, and you will deduce your argument equals irrelevancy.​