SM Jiraiya and Zetsu Orochimaru vs Killer Bee and Ay

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
kumo wins, but sandaime doesn't solo the second scenario.


Jiraiya can still shut him down with frog song, and make his speed irrelevant by blinding the entire battlefield with sage art dust cloud allowing frog song to take it w/ orochimaru's help. Plus although jiraiya can't hurt him, he can still stall him by blasting him away with jutsu like senpou chou oodama rasengan.

Orochimaru also can potentially beat sandaime raikage with his white snake form. Sandaime raikage's durability means nothing against poison administered through the air, and he's all CQC + slicing attacks which is exactly what white snake poison is made for.

Together, I don't see how the duo would lose to sandaime raikage alone. Of course when you throw bee and Ei in there, the scales tip in the raikages favor.
 

Beans2

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
8,937
Reaction score
462
S1: Sannin lose. They have no way to redirect, prevent, or evade Bijuu Dama, nor can they get in any lasting damage on B when he goes full Hachibi. Bijuu Hachimaki+Bijuu Dama=2 Dead Sannin. Ay isn't really needed.

Full BM transformation is immediately greeted by a giant SM-enhanced Yomi Numa which partially or fully sinks the Hachibi. It will be especially easy for Jiraiya if Bee is loading up a TBB, or he can use it to possibly . Immediately after that Jiraiya can to hol' him down while Manda slithers 'round Bee's tentacles and main body . Another way of immobilizing him is using to paralyze him, or the blood from Orochimaru's true form which also paralyzes. Once immobilized, Orochimaru can slice off Gyuki's tentacles one by one with Kusanagi or Gyuki gets brained with a sword going through his head, either with Kusanagi or Gamabunta's sword. Bijuudama won't be a threat once Gyuki's mouth gets (the same sword which cut through Shukaku's limbs like butter). Boss toads can dodge incoming bijuudama as well by leaping out of the way (Jiraiya escapes too assuming he's standing on the toad's back) and snakes can evade it by burrowing underground. Orochimaru can avoid them with Mayfly. Killer Bee simply cannot handle all of their boss summons (which is like, three frogs and four snakes, plus 8 branches), in addition to their techniques to immobilize and restrain him. Won't factor in Ay because you said he wasn't needed.
 
Last edited:

TRE MERCER

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
13,251
Reaction score
487
Jiraiya and Orochimaru wins... goes underground to evade Bijuudama Gamabunta simply jumps out of the Bijuudama radius then proceeds to roast Hachibi... Ei is one shotted via genjutsu...
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
Jiraiya and Orochimaru wins... goes underground to evade Bijuudama Gamabunta simply jumps out of the Bijuudama radius then proceeds to roast Hachibi... Ei is one shotted via genjutsu...

Please explain the bold,
 

KidGamer65

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Reaction score
2,272
Full BM transformation is immediately greeted by a giant SM-enhanced Yomi Numa which partially or fully sinks the Hachibi. It will be especially easy for Jiraiya if Bee is loading up a TBB, or he can use it to possibly .
Yomi Numa isn't going to stop the Bijuu Dama coming for Jiraiya, nor will it prevent it from firing. What Kitsuchi did was push the Juubi's foot up with Doton, thus it fired upwards. Yomi Numa doesn't do that.


Immediately after that Jiraiya can to hol' him down while Manda slithers 'round Bee's tentacles and main body .
Before or after Bijuu Dama blows Jiraiya up in the first place? Definitely not after since the smallest Bijuu Dama he can use is still Mountain Sized, and it barely requires a charge time. Not to mention the summons get tossed away eventually since Hachibi is strong enough to throw and smack Bijuu around.

Another way of immobilizing him is using to paralyze him, or the blood from Orochimaru's true form which also paralyzes. Once immobilized, Orochimaru can slice off Gyuki's tentacles one by one with Kusanagi or Gyuki gets brained with a sword going through his head, either with Kusanagi or Gamabunta's sword.
If he goes full Bijuu, he's going to be nuking them, so there will be no blood from Oro's true form to paralyze him in the first place, and Frog Call doesn't last long enough for Oro to cut off all of B's tentacles, and even if he takes a sword to the head. What's going to happen? Bijuu are chakra monsters. Stabbing him in the head isn't going to kill him, at the very most it'll cause B to revert to Base, but even then, I highly doubt it.

Bijuudama won't be a threat once Gyuki's mouth gets (the same sword which cut through Shukaku's limbs like butter). Boss toads can dodge incoming bijuudama as well by leaping out of the way (Jiraiya escapes too assuming he's standing on the toad's back) and snakes can evade it by burrowing underground. Orochimaru can avoid them with Mayfly. Killer Bee simply cannot handle all of their boss summons (which is like, three frogs and four snakes, plus 8 branches), in addition to their techniques to immobilize and restrain him. Won't factor in Ay because you said he wasn't needed.

Except B isn't going to get into the position where Bunta can jam a sword in his mouth without getting caught by tentacles and thrown away like Isobu was, punted away like Kokuo was, or blown to bits with Bijuu Dama. Boss Toads jump to dodge one Bijuu Dama, then the next one kills them in mid air, or B fires towards the ground, Mountain Sized explosion occurs and everyone except for himself is dead as they can't escape a blast that fast or that large.
 

blazekev90

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
11,741
Reaction score
641
Please explain the bold,

He's obviously referring to a similar situation such as this
Now, Gamu mistake was trying to combat it's fuuton blast afterwards, rather than avoid them. He'd know better than to make that attempt against TBB. Therefore, such a strategy isn't compeltely ridiculous. Also, Hachi would have to worry about what'll appear underneath him, as Manda could attack at any given moment.

Also, Hachi initial use of TBB can be intercepted by simply dropping a toad on its head. Ma&Pa have the abilty to summon them, if not Jman himself.
 

Joker

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
29,426
Reaction score
1,559
Because he gets obliterated by TBB barrages from bee, or gets shredded to pieces by nukite and blitzed to oblivion by V2 Ay
whilst his jutsus wont even put a dent on third raikage or the hachibi,


I smell spite here,
i replied to ur arguments, sadlly they still dont prove or help orochimaru here at alll,
there is no wank here in stating that orochimaru has no way of hurting the raiakge at all when the latter tanked FRS the same attack that shits on any of orochimarus jutsus


It actually did, orochimarus reflexes and striking speed are far inferior to the raikages,
and his attacks are not worth mentioning,
and seeing how he cant use oral rebirth within rapid succession means that he would get wrecked by hell stab, if he attempts to come near him just after using the jutsu,
You didn't, do you not know that once the Raikage pierces his skin, poisonus gas will be released, and therefore he's paralyzed?
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
You didn't, do you not know that once the Raikage pierces his skin, poisonus gas will be released, and therefore he's paralyzed?

Provide me some scans and then we can discuss,

He's obviously referring to a similar situation such as this
Now, Gamu mistake was trying to combat it's fuuton blast afterwards, rather than avoid them. He'd know better than to make that attempt against TBB. Therefore, such a strategy isn't compeltely ridiculous. Also, Hachi would have to worry about what'll appear underneath him, as Manda could attack at any given moment.
If its in mid air its not evading the TBB, he is big wide target for the Blast, or Hachibi can simply use the Bijuu Wave to blow it away,
as for Manda, it gets punched several meters back, and suffers a much worse fate than 5-tails, or it simply blown to bits by BW as well,

Gamabunta cant evade continous TBB, nor can it do anything to counter BW,
manda is in the same boat, especially when hachibi can just fire off TBB rather quickly, and its blast radius and AOE are too large for both of them to evade,

Also, Hachi initial use of TBB can be intercepted by simply dropping a toad on its head. Ma&Pa have the abilty to summon them, if not Jman himself.
It wont be changing much, as right after gamabunta gets vaporised
the TBB would still explode if gamabunta falls right on hachibis head,
the only difference would be that hachibi would tank it, whereas gamabunta and possibly jiraiya would be within the blast radius and die [/FONT][/B]
 
Last edited:

Joker

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
29,426
Reaction score
1,559
Provide me some scans and then we can discuss,


If its in mid air its not evading the TBB, he is big wide target for the Blast, or Hachibi can simply use the Bijuu Wave to blow it away,
as for Manda, it gets punched several meters back, and suffers a much worse fate than 5-tails, or it simply blown to bits by BW as well,

Gamabunta cant evade continous TBB, nor can it do anything to counter BW,
manda is in the same boat, especially when hachibi can just fire off TBB rather quickly, and its blast radius and AOE are too large for both of them to evade,


It wont be changing much, as right after gamabunta gets vaporised
the TBB would still explode if gamabunta falls right on hachibis head,
the only difference would be that hachibi would tank it, whereas gamabunta and possibly jiraiya would be within the blast radius and die
I need to provide a scan for basic knowledge?
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
I need to provide a scan for basic knowledge?

No i need to see what poison gas are u referring to, because pre hebi sasuke was wrecking white snake orochimaru with mere chidori variants, and was unfazed by this so called gas,
 

Joker

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
29,426
Reaction score
1,559
No i need to see what poison gas are u referring to, because pre hebi sasuke was wrecking white snake orochimaru with mere chidori variants, and was unfazed by this so called gas,
Unfazed? Dude was paralyzed, completely immobile. The only reason Sasuke was "wrecking" his true form, was because of his illness, not even going to mention the fact that Orochimaru regenerated from EVERYTHING Sasuke did.
 

blazekev90

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
11,741
Reaction score
641


Provide me some scans and then we can discuss,


If its in mid air its not evading the TBB, he is big wide target for the Blast, or Hachibi can simply use the Bijuu Wave to blow it away,
as for Manda, it gets punched several meters back, and suffers a much worse fate than 5-tails, or it simply blown to bits by BW as well,

Gamabunta cant evade continous TBB, nor can it do anything to counter BW,
manda is in the same boat, especially when hachibi can just fire off TBB rather quickly, and its blast radius and AOE are too large for both of them to evade,


It wont be changing much, as right after gamabunta gets vaporised
the TBB would still explode if gamabunta falls right on hachibis head,
the only difference would be that hachibi would tank it, whereas gamabunta and possibly jiraiya would be within the blast radius and die [/FONT][/B]

No, I think you're underestiamting the outcome of such a strategy. Both large summonings avoid the initial TBB, Gama leaps and Manda goes underground. Hachi having only Gama in his sight would attack Gama first mid air. However, there are two options available to prevent that. 1) Jman and/Ma&Pa utilizing another Toad. When summoning, the summomer has to ability to chose where their respective animals appears and has the ability to transfer messages during that process. Certainly TBB isn't faster than S/T. So, simply have another toad appear behind Hachi and above, hindsight. 2) going off scenario #1 or separately, Hachi focusing on either toad, leaves him open for Manda to appear underneath undetected. He can appear behind, infront, or both Simultaneously. Hachi would have to redirect this focus in the process for the toad(s) as Manda's speed would allow him to wrap a few tentacles before Hachi has the time to strike.

Now in the given situation, Hachi could 1) punch/grab Manda, but Orochimau slices his fist in the in mid swing. If you disagree with this, I can provide visuals to give a better explanation. Or 2) attempt to Bijuu wave, but this can too be prevented. With Hachi's movement already being slightly restricted, he wouldn't be able to use the jutsu fast enough. Jman himself can assist w/ greater swamp or use suition bullets for offensive purposes
 

UltimateDeadpool

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
2,306
Reaction score
202
Base Jiraiya > KN4, so people need to stop thinking that Bee's Bijuu powers are going to dominate here. Also: Sage Naruto >/= Kurama, and Kurama > Gyuuki. So, Sage Jiraiya should be more than a match.

Ei isn't as fast as people believe him to be. He's very quick, but he's not the Flash. Suigetsu reacted to him, Juugo reacted to him, Sasuke reacted to him, Bee reacted to him, Minato reacted to him, and Madara reacted to him. He may have the potential to overwhelm, but he has no way of killing Orochimaru. If and when Ei makes Orochimaru bleed, he'll be poisoned and at Orochimaru's mercy. Kusanagi likely pierces Lightning Armor as well.
 
Last edited:

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
No, I think you're underestiamting the outcome of such a strategy. Both large summonings avoid the initial TBB, Gama leaps and Manda goes underground. Hachi having only Gama in his sight would attack Gama first mid air.
Nope, Gamas leaps are not enough to evade a TBB, at all, seeing how the TBB from Kurama covered the entire region of konoha immedaitely and ,
Gama or manda evading a TBB just by leaping is a joke, when they dont even survive the blast wave of the TBB,
not to mention that

However, there are two options available to prevent that. 1) Jman and/Ma&Pa utilizing another Toad. When summoning, the summomer has to ability to chose where their respective animals appears and has the ability to transfer messages during that process. Certainly TBB isn't faster than S/T. So, simply have another toad appear behind Hachi and above, hindsight.
Increasing the numbers doesnt help when hachibi can fire off continous TBB or Bijuu Wave (BW) to eradicate them and jiraiya along with it, they both have no answer to his firepower at all, so they are non factor

2) going off scenario #1 or separately, Hachi focusing on either toad, leaves him open for Manda to appear underneath undetected. He can appear behind, infront, or both Simultaneously. Hachi would have to redirect this focus in the process for the toad(s) as Manda's speed would allow him to wrap a few tentacles before Hachi has the time to strike.
Manda or any other toad gets crushed by the hachibi if it attempts at CQC,
and manda wrapping the tentacles doesnt help either when hachibi can still use the TBB or a BW, towards the ground or within cllose proximity which would eradicate the summons,

and mandas speed pressuring the hachibi is a joke , despite focusing on its own TBB, and this is

and the befoore they could even form another doton wall,
so the summons pressuring hachibi is just a joke, its tentacles have a wide span, and it would just blow them away with BW or vaporise them to dust with a TBB

Now in the given situation, Hachi could 1) punch/grab Manda, but Orochimau slices his fist in the in mid swing. If you disagree with this, I can provide visuals to give a better explanation.
hachibis tentacles might have the tendency to be cut in half, but its body is certainly not being damaged by orochimaru,
grabbing hachibi is not helping when it can still fire a TBB towards the ground to eradicate them
or it has more than enough capacity to react and then form continous TBB to vaporise them

Or 2) attempt to Bijuu wave, but this can too be prevented. With Hachi's movement already being slightly restricted, he wouldn't be able to use the jutsu fast enough. Jman himself can assist w/ greater swamp or use suition bullets for offensive purposes
Swamp is still not sinking the hachibi fast enough to actually prevent it from firing a BW or a TBB,
hachibi fires a TBB or a BW and the person dies,
even if they evade the TBB by some miracle, itts mountain covering blast radius is too large for them to evade therefore they get killed and suiton bullets are non factor at its finest,
 
Last edited:

blazekev90

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
11,741
Reaction score
641

Nope, Gamas leaps are not enough to evade a TBB, at all, seeing how the TBB from Kurama covered the entire region of konoha immedaitely and ,
Gama or manda evading a TBB just by leaping is a joke, when they dont even survive the blast wave of the TBB,
not to mention that


Increasing the numbers doesnt help when hachibi can fire off continous TBB or Bijuu Wave (BW) to eradicate them and jiraiya along with it, they both have no answer to his firepower at all, so they are non factor


Manda or any other toad gets crushed by the hachibi if it attempts at CQC,
and manda wrapping the tentacles doesnt help either when hachibi can still use the TBB or a BW, towards the ground or within cllose proximity which would eradicate the summons,

and mandas speed pressuring the hachibi is a joke , despite focusing on its own TBB, and this is

and the befoore they could even form another doton wall,
so the summons pressuring hachibi is just a joke, its tentacles have a wide span, and it would just blow them away with BW or vaporise them to dust with a TBB


hachibis tentacles might have the tendency to be cut in half, but its body is certainly not being damaged by orochimaru,
grabbing hachibi is not helping when it can still fire a TBB towards the ground to eradicate them
or it has more than enough capacity to react and then form continous TBB to vaporise them


Swamp is still not sinking the hachibi fast enough to actually prevent it from firing a BW or a TBB,
hachibi fires a TBB or a BW and the person dies,
even if they evade the TBB by some miracle, itts mountain covering blast radius is too large for them to evade therefore they get killed and suiton bullets are non factor at its finest,


Lol lets not confuse a Kurama TBB fused w/ PS sword to Hachi's FULL POWERED TBB, which isn't half its own size.

Both Gama and Manda easily avoid that, especially with more than one sensor on their side to assist.

You're not understanding. Unless Hachi has a second head to shot TBB behind him, while trying to focus on Gama and Manda, he wouldn't have time to use TBB sufficiently. I'll set it up for you again, they all evade the the initial TBB, which is easily detected. But in the midst of trying to prevent Hachi from focusing in on Gama, the visible target at that time, they summon a toad behind him, to combat or distract him. if Hachi was to go for continuous TBB from the start, he wouldn't be able to redirect his attack in time to react to S/T and a toad dropping on his head.

Manda wrapped along Hachi and he'll use TBB?! He'll harm himself in the process. We've already seen Hachi being immobile after taking a blow of his own TBB. The tentacles expanding doesn't prevent them from being wrapped, they only make easier targets for Orochimaru to slice.

You're either overestimating Hachi's speed or the incident itself. Juubi used TBB, both Hachi and Kumara acknowledge this as it prepped. Now, from what we know about Juubi TBB, the most powerful of them all, is that there's enough time for someone like Ino to use a jutsu, intercept and redirect its attack before it collides with its target. Therefore, you hyping this "travelled in seconds" reference is irrelevant. That's no speed feat for Hachi, especially not one that'll allow him to avoid Manda, a target wouldn't know when to prepare for.

Hachi body was pierced by horns, leaving him immobile, it's horn was cut off, etc. yet, you're here telling me SS wouldn't be able to pierce his body? Seriously?

Swamp is chakra controlled, Jman controls how fast the target sinks. We witnessed a drugged Jman use it, which wasn't fast. However, when SM Jman used it, Pein sunk instantly. Also, this is used to mainly slow his movemnts, not sink Hachi instantly.
 
Last edited:

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
Lol lets not confuse a Kurama TBB fused w/ PS sword to Hachi's FULL POWERED TBB, which isn't half its own size.
Wherre did i compare their strength, i only compared the speed of the TBB which should logically be equivalent,

Both Gama and Manda easily avoid that, especially with more than one sensor on their side to assist.
No they dont, they dont evade shit,
especially when TBBs have shown the speed to cover the entire konoha withiin seconds,
gamabunta and manda are not evading the TBB, and IF they are lucky to evade it, will still kill them or heavily damage them

and Lol how are their sensing abilities helping?
how are they even sensors to begiin with,

You're not understanding. Unless Hachi has a second head to shot TBB behind him, while trying to focus on Gama and Manda,
Gamabunta or Mandas attacks are based on CQC attacks, therefore they are not doing shit,

and how its means that gamabunta gets wrecked wiith ease, and manda gets ripped in half,

hachibi can also just blow them away with Whilrwind, and then proceed to eradicate them with Bijuu waves or TBB barrages

he wouldn't have time to use TBB sufficiently. I'll set it up for you again, they all evade the the initial TBB, which is easily detected. But in the midst of trying to prevent Hachi from focusing in on Gama, the visible target at that time, they summon a toad behind him, to combat or distract him. if Hachi was to go for continuous TBB from the start, he wouldn't be able to redirect his attack in time to react to S/T and a toad dropping on his head.

he can form them very easily, and claiming otherwise just doesnt make sense

moreover, detecting a TBB doesnt mean that they can counter or tank it,
and summoning a toad through FCD isnt helping much either when it cant hold the bijuu for long periods of time, nor are the toads anywhere near strong enough to combat it, thus allwing Hachibi to either wreck them at CQC or through TBB

having diversions is also not efficient, when hachibi can eradicate all his targets from its front through a Bijuu wave/TBB and then do the same from the other side,

Manda wrapped along Hachi and he'll use TBB?! He'll harm himself in the process
he can still tank its TBB, furthermore and either punch it away or rip it in half

. We've already seen Hachi being immobile after taking a blow of his own TBB.
Thats because he was fighting for long periods of time,
not that it matters since hachibi wont be hitting himself here at all
The tentacles expanding doesn't prevent them from being wrapped, they only make easier targets for Orochimaru to slice.
why dont they?
the tentacles are still there and free for hachibi to use, he can usee them just fine to throw manda away,
followed by a Bijuu wave to blow him away,

by ur premise, hachibi is just standing there and doing nothing, when realistically all it has to do is fire TBB from one side to another to eradiicate any one in the battlefield,

jiraiya and orochimaru having a summoning time just makes thiss easier for hachibi

You're either overestimating Hachi's speed or the incident itself. Juubi used TBB, both Hachi and Kumara acknowledge this as it prepped. Now, from what we know about Juubi TBB, the most powerful of them all, is that there's enough time for someone like Ino to use a jutsu, intercept and redirect its attack before it collides with its target. Therefore, you hyping this "travelled in seconds" reference is irrelevant. That's no speed feat for Hachi, especially not one that'll allow him to avoid Manda, a target wouldn't know when to prepare for.
umm why not,
Kyuubi and Hachibi travelled the similar distance and were attacked by the juubi at the same time,
all this implies is that the hachibi had speed feats to atleast compete with the kurama avatar,

moreoever ino using the mind transfer isnt really a speed feat, when the jutsu doesnt require any movement at all,
whereas in hachibis case, , despite firing off his TBB
and this is
and yes this is a relevant argument since the beam covered kilometers worth of distance in a relatively short of amount of time,
all this implies is that its velocity is immensely fast,

and certainly fast enough to compette with mere summons, who are nothing but garbage to perfect jins

Hachi body was pierced by horns, leaving him immobile, it's horn was cut off, etc. yet, you're here telling me SS wouldn't be able to pierce his body? Seriously?
SS - Shinsuusenju, i dontt know what else are you referring to,


Swamp is chakra controlled, Jman controls how fast the target sinks. We witnessed a drugged Jman use it, which wasn't fast. However, when SM Jman used it, Pein sunk instantly. Also, this is used to mainly slow his movemnts, not sink Hachi instantly.
I need scans for the bold
and even then hachibi can still fire offf his TBB through its mouth to eradicate jiraiya and revert free of its control,
he can also fall to his base form, allowing bee to negate it wiith raiton
 
Last edited:
Top