SM Jiraiya and Byakugou Tsunade vs Kakuzu and Sasori

[Apêx1]

TheEvilOne, this is all I need to support my claim.
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No way in hell can anyone claim Kakuzu is slow considering this scan alone proves a massive speed feat. Oro was on par with 4 tails v2 Nardo in his snake mode (fastest mode). 6tails v2 Biju's were on par in speed with Kakashi in his raikiri attacks. Yet, the same guy who kept up with 6t got blitzed by someone who was laying on the ground whilst Kakashi was already on the move.

 

[TheEvilOne]

TheEvilOne, this is all I need to support my claim.
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No way in hell can anyone claim Kakuzu is slow considering this scan alone proves a massive speed feat. Oro was on par with 4 tails v2 Nardo in his snake mode (fastest mode). 6tails v2 Biju's were on par in speed with Kakashi in his raikiri attacks. Yet, the same guy who kept up with 6t got blitzed by someone who was laying on the ground whilst Kakashi was already on the move.

Kakuzu covered the same distance as Kakashi so how is this a speed feat? Not to mention Kakashi has gotten stronger and faster since then. Also we have seen fast characters getting owned/blitzed by slower ones many times before.

 

[xcoyote]

Team 1 low diff.

 

[paratise]

People have shown to take attacks from slower characters /attacks when they were focused on other things.

Haku getting hit by Naruto's shruken and Kimimaro gettimg kicked away by Lee while he was attacking Naruto are examples, hence it was canonically proven that Kimimaro would not take a hit from Lee when they were going 1 vs 1.

 

[TheEvilOne]

People have shown to take attacks from slower characters /attacks when they were focused on other things.

Haku getting hit by Naruto's shruken and Kimimaro gettimg kicked away by Lee while he was attacking Naruto are examples, hence it was canonically proven that Kimimaro would not take a hit from Lee when they were going 1 vs 1.

Exactly this.

Not to mention the distance between Kakashi and Hidan wasn't more then 1-2 meters. This isn't a notable speed feat.

 

[Zexion~]

Kakuzu has more then one speed feat U_U

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

To be honest; Kakuzu nor Hidan aren't quick enough to cause any real issues here for Tsunade and Jiraiya. I'm not going to say who's quicker than whom, but clearly they're all in the same ball park with reaction feats to back up them keeping track of each other.

 

[paratise]

Kakuzu could not blitz Shikamaru from behind.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

^ I know, presented that point to Zexion before.

 

[paratise]

Zex doesn't listen.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

He's far too stubborn.

 

[Beans2]

I suppose I'm coming in a bit late and not sure what you were arguing this for, however please be aware that Kakuzu can still use jutsu most likely emanating from his back

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No reason to suggest he can't in base form U_U Besides removing the hearts is not a very long process.... Especiall when Sasori can place an IS Block in front.





Oh really? He's going to send his nice and vulnerable tongue at Sasori? Who uses poison so fluently, he could easily puncture the soft tongue and lead to Fukusaku's demise....Or you seem to think bringing him point blank range is going to help Jiraiya when in fact it seems to spell out his doom, as it would lead to point blank Flame Throwers

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A surprise attack from the trap located in his chest which would mean death for Jiraiya

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Or it may even turn into an attack method Sasori has been known to use

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As for Kakuzu he can easily use a domu hardened fist, to turn the attack around and pull Jiraiya towards them, similar to what Tsunade did against Oro. And if Sasori is in Hiruko, He can easily jump out :|



You realize that Fukusaku only has one tongue? So while he's attacking one the other can easily prepare for the battle via Releasing Hearts or exiting Hiruko. Domu tanks the tongue btw, don't really recall how it cuts.



Domu? And Sasori has puppets available to continue the attack if he were to be restrained, or his propellers may be able to slice through the hair and release him.


I've countered this a million times so pardon me if it doesn't have much depth in my explanation >.< Kakuzu's Katon can harden the mud allowing him to break through with Domu Enhanced Body Parts U_U



This is sort of a tricky jutsu, because i'm not quite sure how its activated however being exposed to the soft innards of the frog can easily allow Sasori to poison it, ending the danger of the stomach.




A blitz happening when someone is only .5 higher in speed is near impossible :| Not to mention Jiraiya's greatest speed came from propelling himself off of a structure

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Which isn't always available in the battle field. As for rasengan you really think its going to penetrate Domu? A measly rasengan? Nah... However even if it did please realize that Kakuzu's body structure is merely some threads and 5 hearts

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So an attack that only deals blunt force or damages other organs is near useless against him, The Rasengan would not damage the hearts therefore its a useless jutsu when confronted by Kakuzu U_U



What is the barrier going to do? Kakuzu and Sasori aren't focusing on hiding their attacks they're sending an all out barage, which Jiraiya would have trouble avoiding barrier or not.



Blocking IS? With Needle Jizo? Nah my man, The Rasengan may cover defending from the larger variants of the IS However what about the smaller one? It can't cover all at once and swinging it around is futile as this jutsu is near instant

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And Sakura was never able to avoid these kinds of IS they were incredibly fast.




? What The two gians are going to be in a parallel direction

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Pa can't be in two places at the same time? A meat shield? Hardly it would rip right through the frog and continue going

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Lol? The masks are made of threads...Pa cant grapple on to something like that? You don't know much about the Akatsuki do you...

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Not even Chouji could get a hold of them

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Obviously He'll have to leave Hiruko for this :|



Did you really just Say Kakashi tanked it? Oh God

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Since he was so close to the mask when the jutsu was expelled he was able to react with help from the Sharingan and revert to behind the mask, where the fuuton did not reach U_U Something kakuzu noticed and states

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Don't bother she's useless anyways​

Smh Zex, you know those masks have to burst out of his back before they can operate. That happened long after this happened:

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And Sasori isn't using IS until he gets out of Hiruko, summons his 3rd kazekage puppet, and attaches chakra strings to it.

We're talking about Hiruko still. Flame throwers and coil are not yet able to be used. Doesn't matter anway since Jiraiya just blocks those attacks with needle jizo. Fukusaku's tongue gets poisoned? Please...Sasori's poison needs to enter the bloodstream to be effective, and no traps or mechanisms of his are piercing a tongue which cut through steel:

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He doesn't need to harden his tongue though - Ma or Pa can wrap his or her tongue around either party before they can react. Even Pain couldn't react, and remarked on how fast it was:

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Fukusaku only has one tongue...good thing Shima has one also. Don't think Domu can tank that. It cut through solid steel pipes.

Domu ain't working against Raging Lion's Mane. It literally crushed a giant lobster, which was all armoured up and protected by a hard-ass shell:

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Kakuzu's katon drying up the swamp? He's still in base at the moment! he can't use katon! The downside of Domu is that the hardened part of the body cannot be moved, so if he uses Domu he sinks into the swamp easier than ever since he can't move.

Poison is not an effective counter to Toad Mouth Bind. Although it's fast-acting, it takes MUCH longer for the poison to circulate through the bloodstream of a huge eso****us than a normal human body. This jutsu in fact could gg both opponents at once since they start in their base forms u.u

I suppose you may be correct in that Jiraiya won't blitz and that a normal rasengan won't pierce Domu...but an ultra big-ball rasengan would

You're right that the barrier probably wouldn't be necessary.

Why do you think Needle Jizo wouldn't work against smaller IS variants? The type of iron sand that you showed in those scans is not very powerful, in fact not much more penetrating power than ordinary kunais.

Shima can use fuuton as well to negate Gian.

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Though using fuuton to negate raiton isn't even necessary. An ultra big-ball rasengan would serve as defense against Gian (who said rasengans were offensive only? ). Since gian is a omnidirectional attack it can be blocked this way.

Actually, Pa can grapple on to the masks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the masks have shown no feats of being able to "slip" out of someone's grasp. Being made of threads doesn't mean they can finesse their way out of Pa's hold.

Kakashi reverted to behind the mask? How did he even move or dodge in midair? The mask was closer to Hidan than it was to Kakashi, how did Kakashi move in midair, get past Hidan, and then go behind the mask? Soemthing doesn't make sense here.

Nah, Tsunade's not useless. Base Sakura gave Sasori a tough time and Tsunade with Katsuyu/Byakogou could give Sasori a run for his money, plus she's useful for extracting poison/medical purposes. I just don't think she's needed so I'm not factoring her in.

 

[Beans2]

Whatever you say, breaking hiruko doesn't equate to Sasori dying eitherway, and his poison would be an ass to deal with..

-Implying his tongue is that strong when unhardened? Implying his tongue is that flexible in the first place?
-Lel, no. You're overrating it now, it has massive strength but I see no reason as to why kakuzu doesn't just save himself and Sasori by destroying it with Domu.
-Hiruko isn't vulnerable to lions mane, his armour would be strong enough to stop it (or his tail), in addition to his senbon being capable of making Jiraiya stop its usage to get to cover.. Kakuzu feels absolutely nothing from it, and uses his brute strength to rip it apart. Propeller like attack cuts through it like butter.
-Doubtable, when chakra is used beneath the feet once achieves the capability to stand on trees and water. I see no reason as to why Yomi Numa is different, his feet go 5cm beneath and he simply steps back out. Hiruko is helped via tendrils.
-Toad mouth bind requires locational advantage lmao. This clearly shows a lack of understanding of Jiraiya's arsenal given his toad mouth bind isn't possible in any given location/scenario.


He's blitzing Kakuzu now? Laughable. He has no speed feats and DB means nothing in terms of feats. Last I checked, Kakuzu outsped Kakashi whilst using his Raikiri by a long run, and Raikiri Kakashi was keeping up with 6th tailed v2 beasts in terms of speed. The same beasts who are two tails ahead of v4 Nardo that was on par in terms of speed to Orochimaru's snake form. Kakuzu's speed>>>Jiraiya's in regards to feats. DB isn't as accurate as you make it seem, Hebi Sasuke was a 4.5 and was consistently out speeding Deidara who's a 4.5 #Logic

-Proof of this? Gimme a scan m8, pretty sure he had to be fully concentrated whilst using this..
-What reason do I have to believe he can use Fuuton twice before Gian launches 2 simultaneous Gian's? Lml.. Either you believe he cannot launch two at once (shown) or you are simply going with fan-fic fukasaku.

-lol. His speed isn't comparable to IS while swinging his rasengan. That has to be one of the most ludicrous strategies I have heard of. His best bet is to use his hair as a shiled, and even then he gets pierced by Gian. He isn't swinging in 360 degrees before IS pierces him from over him, under him, on his back/front side (blind spots of his 'car sized' rasengan. There's no reason fro me to blieve he can make two of them, he has shown 2 midget like ones (as Nardo did), not two massive ones. This is blind faith imo. So hair is being compared to IS now? Ridiculousssss. How do you come to these conclusions? Iron>chakra empowered hair in terms of speed and strength. Sakura was still hit m8, and that was her being lucky due to plot. Percentage of being hit mathematically still favours me.
Lol? Summons are already killed off via ISWO, there's no meat shield for him. Double gian has been shown, Dual consecutive Fuutons have not been shown nor meet the required speed to achieve a counter attack.

-Again, I only recall it being extended whilst hardened, nothing implies it can be hardened whilst being in a flexible position. Nothing implies it has the strength to reel him in (restraining) without being counterattacked.

-Oh no, he's a sage. Makes no difference. He has no sensing abilities, being distracted=being vulnerable. No debate to this.

-Poison is stopped by Futon? Lel. Are you implying the extremely tiny Futon cloud we saw is blowing away an entire poison cloud? Not happening. Again, Needle Jizo has no feats of being comparable to IS in terms of speed, strength, and hardness. It gets blown away, or simply doesn't hit since it's going at random (unlikes i.e. Chidori senbon).

-Must be the most ludicrous thing in your post. Kakashi didn't tank it lmao, no need to even explain this.

Notice how this is mostly Hiruko and non-full powered Kakuzu. Hiruko and this Kakuzu I am using can effectively stalemate/win. Going into their strongest forms is a steamroll.

Sorry mate but Zexion hijacked your side of the debate. His points are more logical and better illustrated anyway, plus I can't reply to both of you.

 

[Zexion~]

Since when did this turn into a Zexion shit talking contest >.>

Kakuzu has a 4 in speed U_U

Feat wise he has shown to ambush Kakashi on more then one occasion

Anyways beans thanks for the compliment Of course i;m better then that mongrel Indra U_U

I shall counter in a bit

 

[TheEvilOne]

Since when did this turn into a Zexion shit talking contest >.>

Kakuzu has a 4 in speed U_U

Feat wise he has shown to ambush Kakashi on more then one occasion

Anyways beans thanks for the compliment Of course i;m better then that mongrel Indra U_U

I shall counter in a bit

Tsunade has 3.5 points in speed. Feat wise she has shown to ambush Orochimaru ( 4,5 in speed ), Shizune ( 4 in speed ), Madara and his clones ( EMS precog ). Does this mean she is faster then them? No. This just shows in certain situations a slower character can land hits on faster characters.

 

[RicardoA]

Tsunade has 3.5 points in speed. Feat wise she has shown to ambush Orochimaru ( 4,5 in speed ), Shizune ( 4 in speed ), Madara and his clones ( EMS precog ). Does this mean she is faster then them? No. This just shows in certain situations a slower character can land hits on faster characters.

@bold: That's saying little. It also means that skill > speed.

Speed is overrated as hell in here. Its not really a very relevant factor unless there're speedsters involved, everyone else is close in speed as long as they're around the same level (for example Jiraiya (base), Tsunade, Kakuzu and Hidan).
Besides, any character can use shunshin and be faster than they really are for one second.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Zexion also hits on little girls and boys.

 

[paratise]

^True that.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Good match up. Can go either way. I will go with team two 7/10 times.

 

[Zexion~]

Tsunade has 3.5 points in speed. Feat wise she has shown to ambush Orochimaru ( 4,5 in speed ), Shizune ( 4 in speed ), Madara and his clones ( EMS precog ). Does this mean she is faster then them? No. This just shows in certain situations a slower character can land hits on faster characters.

Lml Except

Oro was half dead

She jumped down a ledge to get to Madara

And Shizune is a fodder U_U Nor do i remember her ambushing Shizune