SM Hashirama or Rinnegan Madara can defeat Current Naruto or Sasuke!!
- Thread starter Minator93
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It didnt get auto updated, RSM was a higher level of power for Naruto to enter, but BSM was still there. This is no different from when naruto obtained BM but could still scale down his power to simply use KM (shown here [
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]). By your logic once naruto obtained BM or BSM he shouldnt have been able to revert back to KM which is false.It was correctly explained by Michael that naruto still has access to RSM and why he does:
Naruto's standard sage mode is represented by the orange markings around his eyes as seen below.
His Rikudou Sage Mode lacks the orange markings around the eye and glowing of skin whilst in chakra mode as seen below.
Naruto has a base RSM (without chakra cloak) as the databook confirms below, Naruto can use RSM without cloak,gudodama,etc.
InB4 people ask about the lack of Gudodama,Magatama,etc.
In Naruto Gaiden Chapter 4, Naruto simply utilized Kurama's chakra and not all the bijuu(1-8). Gudodama requires all elements which Naruto/Kurama alone don't have. The nine magatama represents the nine bijuu and the rinnegan symbol represents unity.
His mode in chapter four wasn't a full powered RSM, as that requires all nine bijuu chakras.
InB4 people say Naruto lost the bijuu chakra.
Naruto is the meeting ground for the bijuu, as stated by hagoromo. Their power is permanent, If he should ever need their chakra he could simply call a psyche meeting.
100% Mangafacts and Databook entry.
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His Rikudou Sage Mode lacks the orange markings around the eye and glowing of skin whilst in chakra mode as seen below.
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Naruto has a base RSM (without chakra cloak) as the databook confirms below, Naruto can use RSM without cloak,gudodama,etc.
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InB4 people ask about the lack of Gudodama,Magatama,etc.
In Naruto Gaiden Chapter 4, Naruto simply utilized Kurama's chakra and not all the bijuu(1-8). Gudodama requires all elements which Naruto/Kurama alone don't have. The nine magatama represents the nine bijuu and the rinnegan symbol represents unity.
His mode in chapter four wasn't a full powered RSM, as that requires all nine bijuu chakras.
InB4 people say Naruto lost the bijuu chakra.
Naruto is the meeting ground for the bijuu, as stated by hagoromo. Their power is permanent, If he should ever need their chakra he could simply call a psyche meeting.
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100% Mangafacts and Databook entry.
And your whole thread is still void because even if naruto couldnt use RSM (which he can), it was clearly stated in the manga that he still has
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which gives him the ability to use all the jutsu that he used against kaguya (excluding flight and Gudo Balls) and everyone on this base knows that neither hashirama or madara can survive the scale and power of any of these attacks:
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These are the power of the bijuu, not of RSM..
So no Hashirama or madara cant defeat naruto and in terms of sasuke we havent even seen how he has mastered his rinnegan but im 100% positive that hashirama has no counter for getting his soul stolen (via human path).
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Glad Of War
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SenseiSama
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There's a difference between not learning how to use a power and not having it at all. Sasuke has equal power to Naruto it's a fact.
Why is that?
Doesn't change the fact that they are nothing in front of Hashi-Maddie without Rikudou Chakra U_U
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Is that so?
Rinnegan power is the power of six path, so throught that eye he still has six path power/rikudo power
Sasuke received
1. Hashi DNA
2. Yin seal
Result in rinnegan
Naurto
1. portion of two bijuus
2. Yang seal
Result: with two bijuus and additional 5 bijuus chakra that he already had and complement with yang seal, he awoken fake jubi mode
Naurto was full of chakra of 9 bijuus + yang seal power
Sasuke only had yin seal and no bijuu, that's why he didn't do much and out of chakra in 1-2 minute, and hashi DNA didn't seem to do anything
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Omar19992010
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That's where your wrong. Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan because he got Hagoromo's Chakra.
Hagoromo explains it here perfectly himself.
Madara when combining Ashura and Indra Chakra awakened Hagoromo's chakra which allowed him to awaken the Rinnegan. Instead of Sasuke awakening that Chakra, Hagoromo gave him all of his Yin Chakra.
The reason Kakashi would never awaken it is because first of all he got a miniscule amount that Obito pulled from Madara. It was so small that Madara deemed it insignificant and never bothered to absorb it back from Obito.
Second of all Kakashi got Rikudo Chakra from the Juubi not Hagoromo.
Hagoromo explains it here perfectly himself.
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Madara when combining Ashura and Indra Chakra awakened Hagoromo's chakra which allowed him to awaken the Rinnegan. Instead of Sasuke awakening that Chakra, Hagoromo gave him all of his Yin Chakra.
The reason Kakashi would never awaken it is because first of all he got a miniscule amount that Obito pulled from Madara. It was so small that Madara deemed it insignificant and never bothered to absorb it back from Obito.
Second of all Kakashi got Rikudo Chakra from the Juubi not Hagoromo.
Transcendence
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Strawman. That's like claiming Naruto didn't have BM anymore because he was using KCM in 629-650. He obviously still has RSM, I don't know why you don't understand that.
Nope. Both Sasuke and Naruto retained Hagoromo's chakra, if it was temparary then it would have left them the moment the seals returned to Hagoromo. Sasuke did not get the Rinnegan from Hashirama cells, Hagoromo even said "before the transmigration was over" while explaining to Naruto how Madara got the Rinnegan. You only need Indra and Ashura's chakra to awaken Hagoromo's chakra
Indra represent Yin chakra and Ashura represent Yang chakra as depicted here
As for Obito and Kakashi, they didn't have Hagoromo's chakra, Obito obtained Sage Senjutsu after becoming the Juubi Jin and even then it never merged with his chakra as it did with Madara (who awakened it), and Naruto and Sasuke (who were hand given it). Obito had Hashirama's cells via white Zetsu and Madara's cells via Rinnegan yet he never awakened his own Rinnegan or shown to have Hagoromo's chakra; because Madara and Hashirama weren't transmigrators.
Even without those powerups, you do know Naruto is still stronger than both and Sasuke's skills with EMS would be strong enough to beat Hashirama at least right? Naruto has full Kurama and Hashirama cells and 12 years time skip to improve his skills. Sasuke has Hashirama's cells to boost his stamina and jutsu powers. Naruto haven't used RSM because he didn't have too, having full Kurama boost him to another level beyond his war arc level. Full Kurama KSM is going to be on or a bit above Yang Kurama's BSM; full Kurama's chakra is twice as large and is much more powerful then it's even larger and stronger when you add natural energy. Also the Bijuus chakra is a separate powerup from Hagoromo's so he can still use their power in any mode. Nothing was stopping Naruto from using TBBFRS (he can form TBB Rasengan in KM during the war so naturally his skills would further increase since he can use FRS in base with 1 hand instead of needing 2 clones to help) on Toneri. He didn't even go for the kill, he saved Toneri. Plus Kurama left his body so Naruto didn't have full access to all of Kurama's chakra like he would in BM and RSM.
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and Hagoromo even said Madara wasn't Indra transmigrator anymore
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. If Sasuke truly had both Indra and Ashura chakra then he would of had 2 Rinnegans instead of 1. Indra represent Yin chakra and Ashura represent Yang chakra as depicted here
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so it's only natural that Hagoromo chakra represent yin yang chakra but Sasuke was given only Yin chakra which is why he has 1; his eye is most likely stronger than a normal Rinnegan but weaker than double. So if Sasuke didn't have Hagoromo's Yin chakra anymore then he wouldn't have his Rinnegan; note Sasuke Rinnegan looks different to give him a different look and it could be because he received a more potent chakra than the kind you awaken from the son's chakra. If Madara isn't Indra transmigrator then Hashirama isn't Ashura's, Hagoromo said it 2x about Madara; Madara and Hashirama being past transmigrator probably only links that Hagoromo used. As for Obito and Kakashi, they didn't have Hagoromo's chakra, Obito obtained Sage Senjutsu after becoming the Juubi Jin and even then it never merged with his chakra as it did with Madara (who awakened it), and Naruto and Sasuke (who were hand given it). Obito had Hashirama's cells via white Zetsu and Madara's cells via Rinnegan yet he never awakened his own Rinnegan or shown to have Hagoromo's chakra; because Madara and Hashirama weren't transmigrators.
Even without those powerups, you do know Naruto is still stronger than both and Sasuke's skills with EMS would be strong enough to beat Hashirama at least right? Naruto has full Kurama and Hashirama cells and 12 years time skip to improve his skills. Sasuke has Hashirama's cells to boost his stamina and jutsu powers. Naruto haven't used RSM because he didn't have too, having full Kurama boost him to another level beyond his war arc level. Full Kurama KSM is going to be on or a bit above Yang Kurama's BSM; full Kurama's chakra is twice as large and is much more powerful then it's even larger and stronger when you add natural energy. Also the Bijuus chakra is a separate powerup from Hagoromo's so he can still use their power in any mode. Nothing was stopping Naruto from using TBBFRS (he can form TBB Rasengan in KM during the war so naturally his skills would further increase since he can use FRS in base with 1 hand instead of needing 2 clones to help) on Toneri. He didn't even go for the kill, he saved Toneri. Plus Kurama left his body so Naruto didn't have full access to all of Kurama's chakra like he would in BM and RSM.
AnonymousShinobi
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rinnegan human puppet
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slimreeper
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madara chances to win
Renningan madara can defeat naruto or sasuke and that's obvious and only fools will overrate naruto and sasuke over madara.
THE CHANCES OF WINNING
65% madara
35% naruto or sasuke
hashirama chances to win
Hashirama SM can't defeat current naruto or sasuke .
he's above EMS madara but he never fought renningan madara since madara activated his renningan later before he die.
THE CHANCES OF WINNING
Hashirama 25%
Naruto or sasuke 75%
Renningan madara can defeat naruto or sasuke and that's obvious and only fools will overrate naruto and sasuke over madara.
THE CHANCES OF WINNING
65% madara
35% naruto or sasuke
hashirama chances to win
Hashirama SM can't defeat current naruto or sasuke .
he's above EMS madara but he never fought renningan madara since madara activated his renningan later before he die.
THE CHANCES OF WINNING
Hashirama 25%
Naruto or sasuke 75%
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Lord of Akatsuki
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1. He still has it.
1.) Lol, you do know that Naruto has a Six Paths Sage Mode without the cloak right? It has no Magatama and doesn't have the circular design as well, is that not RSM then because you say so? Sorry buddy, but the Databook says that it is and the Manga confirms it with showings.
(Entry).
'Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo)
Heading: A gift from the ancestor of Shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.
← The caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of Chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosophical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.
→ Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!
← His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchūriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!'
(Manga scan)
This cloak is an amplified version of RSM.
2. Lol, so Naruto not using RSM against Toneri who he basically easily beat in BSM means he doesn't have it? Talk about reaching.
Sasuke hasn't lost his otherwise he wouldn't have the Rinnegan, and they both would've lost their powers the moment they no longer had the seals then.
Sasuke's Rinnegan is a Hagoromo power up, no ifs or buts, the Databook stated so, the supposed 'misconception' is on your part. Why are you brining in Obito? He didn't have true Rikudou chakra until he became a Jin, and by than he already had a Rinnegan, even if it weren't a true one. Kakashi didn't have enough of the chakra nor the right eyes or body to awaken such a power.
Hashirama is no longer Ashura's Transmigrant and his body most likely no longer contains his chakra.
Do you even know what Transmigration even is?
Hagoromo gave Sasuke his Six Paths Chakra, no ifs or buts, he didn't split it into Yin or Yang, he gave Naruto and Sasuke his true undulated chakra, they got both Yin and Yang from him.
The Last all but confirmed that he still has Hagoromo's power. You know, considering that he could levitate and interact and destroy TSBs. Now what does the Databook state that is specifically a part of Six Paths Senjutsu?
'The caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
→ Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!'
Especially since Naruto just exhibited the same eye type in Sage Mode that only appears when he uses Six Paths Sage Mode. He also showed the same thing with having the cloak not making his face glow like it always does in the normal BM and BSM modes, it was only showed to happen with the cloaked form of Six Paths Sage Mode.
The Sage appeared because Madara had some of Hashirama's cells from when Hashirama was alive and well, thus still a Transmigrant, thus Hashirama was still 'Ashura' at that time. That, coupled with the fact Madara's body already had Six Paths chakra, allowed him to appear in the world.
1.) Lol, you do know that Naruto has a Six Paths Sage Mode without the cloak right? It has no Magatama and doesn't have the circular design as well, is that not RSM then because you say so? Sorry buddy, but the Databook says that it is and the Manga confirms it with showings.
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(Entry).
'Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo)
Heading: A gift from the ancestor of Shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.
← The caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of Chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosophical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.
→ Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!
← His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchūriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!'
(Manga scan)
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This cloak is an amplified version of RSM.
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2. Lol, so Naruto not using RSM against Toneri who he basically easily beat in BSM means he doesn't have it? Talk about reaching.
Sasuke hasn't lost his otherwise he wouldn't have the Rinnegan, and they both would've lost their powers the moment they no longer had the seals then.
Sasuke's Rinnegan is a Hagoromo power up, no ifs or buts, the Databook stated so, the supposed 'misconception' is on your part. Why are you brining in Obito? He didn't have true Rikudou chakra until he became a Jin, and by than he already had a Rinnegan, even if it weren't a true one. Kakashi didn't have enough of the chakra nor the right eyes or body to awaken such a power.
Hashirama is no longer Ashura's Transmigrant and his body most likely no longer contains his chakra.
Do you even know what Transmigration even is?
Hagoromo gave Sasuke his Six Paths Chakra, no ifs or buts, he didn't split it into Yin or Yang, he gave Naruto and Sasuke his true undulated chakra, they got both Yin and Yang from him.
The Last all but confirmed that he still has Hagoromo's power. You know, considering that he could levitate and interact and destroy TSBs. Now what does the Databook state that is specifically a part of Six Paths Senjutsu?
'The caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
→ Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast Chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!'
Especially since Naruto just exhibited the same eye type in Sage Mode that only appears when he uses Six Paths Sage Mode. He also showed the same thing with having the cloak not making his face glow like it always does in the normal BM and BSM modes, it was only showed to happen with the cloaked form of Six Paths Sage Mode.
It's official, Minator has no knowledge of Transmigration.
The Sage appeared because Madara had some of Hashirama's cells from when Hashirama was alive and well, thus still a Transmigrant, thus Hashirama was still 'Ashura' at that time. That, coupled with the fact Madara's body already had Six Paths chakra, allowed him to appear in the world.
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