Almost everywhere you go you see posts like Naruto or Sasuke shit on Hashirama or Madara, but the reality is much different. People simply forget to mention the key words in their statements i.e.
Rikudou Chakra Naruto or Rikudou Chakra Sasuke shit on Hashirama, Madara. And when new people see it + the fact that manga is actually over they think it's a norm to say the same because they are usually victims of "Herd Mentality".
Now, if we are to look beyond the Stage 1 level thinking we'll understand how things really are. So I'll get to it directly.
Before I start let me tell you what editions I'm going to use for this thread,
Hashirama: Alive SM Hashirama at the height of his power i.e. VOTE Hashirama.
Madara: Dual Rinnegan Madara [Alive, young with no SM]
Naruto: Current Gaiden Naruto.
Sasuke: Current Gaiden Sasuke.
Earlier I mentioned a term called "Rikudou Chakra." Let me define it, the Rikudou Chakra is a chakra, with a certain limit, given/obtained from either Hagoromo Ootsutsuki or the Juubi.
Shinobi who obtained the Rikudou Chakra are as follows:
1. Obito Uchiha [After he became the Juubi Jin]
2. Madara Uchiha [After he became the Juubi Jin]
3. Naruto Uzumaki [After Hagoromo gave it to him]
4. Sasuke Uchiha [After Hagoromo gave it to him]
5. Kakashi Hatake [After Obito transmigrated to him]
All of them have lost it.
Obito and Madara are dead. Kakashi lost it along with Dual Kamui when Obito's transmigration got over
Naruto has lost it and that's why he's unable to utilize the RSM [perk his BSM got with the Rikudou Chakra]
Design clearly shows Hokage Naruto doesn't have RSM!
Naruto couldn't go RSM in a life and death battle against Toneri
Thread:
Sasuke too has lost it and that 's why he won't show his VOTE feats again.
Now, Naruto's loss is more obvious to us all because his powerup was physical but Sasuke on the other hand had upgrade based on chakra i.e. Black Chidori, Chakra large enough to match RSM Naruto in VOTE, Chakra large enough to take control over all 9 bijjus at once and spawn the Bijju Susanoo and not mention chakra great enough to use the Indra's Arrow!
There's a general misconception, that Sasuke got the Rinnegan because of Hagoromo but that certainly isn't the case. Because if that had been the case then Obito or even Kakashi would've awakned the Rinnegan when they were under the influence of Rikudou Chakra. Sasuke got the Rinnegan because he [Indra] received Chakra from Hashirama [Ashura] and the Rikudou Chakra merely acted as a catalyst to the awakening process, since we know Madara had to wait for a very long time.
#Inb4 people say Hashirama wasn't Ashura anymore:
Now, let's go to Indra and Ashura's greatest transmigrations i.e. Madara and Hashirama. What's so special about them?
Hashirama Senju:
Madara Uchiha:
Once again I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Naruto or Sasuke from Chapter 671-698 murk Hashirama or Madara but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama and Madara go above them. Although Full extent of Dual Rinnegan Madara is unknown but I'll give Naruto and Sasuke the benefit of the doubt.
Hope you guys enjoyed :flowers
Rikudou Chakra Naruto or Rikudou Chakra Sasuke shit on Hashirama, Madara. And when new people see it + the fact that manga is actually over they think it's a norm to say the same because they are usually victims of "Herd Mentality".
Now, if we are to look beyond the Stage 1 level thinking we'll understand how things really are. So I'll get to it directly.
Before I start let me tell you what editions I'm going to use for this thread,
Hashirama: Alive SM Hashirama at the height of his power i.e. VOTE Hashirama.
Madara: Dual Rinnegan Madara [Alive, young with no SM]
Naruto: Current Gaiden Naruto.
Sasuke: Current Gaiden Sasuke.
Earlier I mentioned a term called "Rikudou Chakra." Let me define it, the Rikudou Chakra is a chakra, with a certain limit, given/obtained from either Hagoromo Ootsutsuki or the Juubi.
Shinobi who obtained the Rikudou Chakra are as follows:
1. Obito Uchiha [After he became the Juubi Jin]
2. Madara Uchiha [After he became the Juubi Jin]
3. Naruto Uzumaki [After Hagoromo gave it to him]
4. Sasuke Uchiha [After Hagoromo gave it to him]
5. Kakashi Hatake [After Obito transmigrated to him]
All of them have lost it.
Obito and Madara are dead. Kakashi lost it along with Dual Kamui when Obito's transmigration got over
You must be registered for see images
Naruto has lost it and that's why he's unable to utilize the RSM [perk his BSM got with the Rikudou Chakra]
You must be registered for see images
Design clearly shows Hokage Naruto doesn't have RSM!
You must be registered for see images
Naruto couldn't go RSM in a life and death battle against Toneri
Thread:
You must be registered for see links
Sasuke too has lost it and that 's why he won't show his VOTE feats again.
Now, Naruto's loss is more obvious to us all because his powerup was physical but Sasuke on the other hand had upgrade based on chakra i.e. Black Chidori, Chakra large enough to match RSM Naruto in VOTE, Chakra large enough to take control over all 9 bijjus at once and spawn the Bijju Susanoo and not mention chakra great enough to use the Indra's Arrow!
There's a general misconception, that Sasuke got the Rinnegan because of Hagoromo but that certainly isn't the case. Because if that had been the case then Obito or even Kakashi would've awakned the Rinnegan when they were under the influence of Rikudou Chakra. Sasuke got the Rinnegan because he [Indra] received Chakra from Hashirama [Ashura] and the Rikudou Chakra merely acted as a catalyst to the awakening process, since we know Madara had to wait for a very long time.
#Inb4 people say Hashirama wasn't Ashura anymore:
Now, if Hashirama's Cahkra wasn't Ashura's Chakra anymore then the Sage could never have been able to appear before the Hokage here,
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Now, let's go to Indra and Ashura's greatest transmigrations i.e. Madara and Hashirama. What's so special about them?
Hashirama Senju:
Hashirama: Hashirama can use Mokuton.
What's this? everyone knew that already and there are shit load of people who can use Mokuton, even Yamato can use it. Well it isn't as simple as it looks. So I'll rephrase it,
Hashirama awakened the Mokuton. And all others users simply used it at much lower scale by stealing his DNA/cells.
What's so special about Mokuton? Well the Mokuton is actually derived from Juubi's Final form i.e. from Shinjuu itself! It was the KKG that only Ashura was able to use from the Ootsutski family and he too obtained it after his chakra bloomed, you can see he has used Mokuton God Gets aka
Even Juubi Jin Madara's Infinite Tsukuyomi needed two things:
1. Full Power of the Rinnegan.
2. Shin Joukai Koutan
The Juubi was used for upping the scale of the Jutsu, Obito was actually ready to do it using a less powerful Juubi meaning the Juubi was there to only up the scale, main things were Rinnegan for Genjutsu and Mokuton for Binding!
That's the real worth of Mokuton and hence Hashirama! the only Ashura transmigrant able to use it! Naruto himself had showed affinity towards Mokuton but as of now he still hasn't awakened it U_U
I'll link you guys to a detailed thread where I showed how and when Naruto will awaken it but so far the when of it hasn't happened, meaning I once overestimated Naruto U_U
Thread:
So what exactly does above information tell us? Or should I say what exactly it justifies?
Hashirama's Chakra Volume was actually >= Naruto's + Minato's + Yin Kurama's + Yang Kurama's Chakra Volume!!
Yes believe it or not, but that's what Kishimoto has written and given the fact that Hashirama's the only one who awakened the Mokuton it's justified!
I've discussed what Hashirama was now I'll focus a bit on his important abilities that will allow him to defeat Naruto or Sasuke.
#Hashirama and Naruto [Mangafacts]
#Hashirama and Sasuke [Mangafacts]
What's this? everyone knew that already and there are shit load of people who can use Mokuton, even Yamato can use it. Well it isn't as simple as it looks. So I'll rephrase it,
Hashirama awakened the Mokuton. And all others users simply used it at much lower scale by stealing his DNA/cells.
What's so special about Mokuton? Well the Mokuton is actually derived from Juubi's Final form i.e. from Shinjuu itself! It was the KKG that only Ashura was able to use from the Ootsutski family and he too obtained it after his chakra bloomed, you can see he has used Mokuton God Gets aka
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[Hashirama's God Gates] in his final battle against Indra,
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Even Juubi Jin Madara's Infinite Tsukuyomi needed two things:
1. Full Power of the Rinnegan.
2. Shin Joukai Koutan
You must be registered for see images
The Juubi was used for upping the scale of the Jutsu, Obito was actually ready to do it using a less powerful Juubi meaning the Juubi was there to only up the scale, main things were Rinnegan for Genjutsu and Mokuton for Binding!
That's the real worth of Mokuton and hence Hashirama! the only Ashura transmigrant able to use it! Naruto himself had showed affinity towards Mokuton but as of now he still hasn't awakened it U_U
I'll link you guys to a detailed thread where I showed how and when Naruto will awaken it but so far the when of it hasn't happened, meaning I once overestimated Naruto U_U
Thread:
You must be registered for see links
So what exactly does above information tell us? Or should I say what exactly it justifies?
You must be registered for see images
Hashirama's Chakra Volume was actually >= Naruto's + Minato's + Yin Kurama's + Yang Kurama's Chakra Volume!!
Yes believe it or not, but that's what Kishimoto has written and given the fact that Hashirama's the only one who awakened the Mokuton it's justified!
I've discussed what Hashirama was now I'll focus a bit on his important abilities that will allow him to defeat Naruto or Sasuke.
#Hashirama and Naruto [Mangafacts]
1. Hashirama was capable of confining the Juubi with God Gates on his own whereas BM Naruto failed miserably against 1st form of Juubi.
2. With BSM Naruto's max power is Senjutsu TBB, Hashirama's Golem plays tennis with TBB U_U
3. Hashirama's SM can react to Jikukan Ninjutsu, Naruto needed RSM to achieve the same feat.
4. Hashirama's healing powers can't be matched even with Kurama's healing abilities.
The only thing Naruto has above Hashirama is speed but that's redundant with Hashirama's Sage Mode. Everything Naruto has offer gets countered by Hashirama.
BSM Naruto has nothing, absolutely nothing to defeat Shinsusejuu U_U
[Naruto strictly needs Rikudou Chakra to be above Hashirama. Don't get me wrong, I know Naruto from Chapter 671-698 murks Hashirama but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama gets overwhelming upper-hand in this battle]
2. With BSM Naruto's max power is Senjutsu TBB, Hashirama's Golem plays tennis with TBB U_U
3. Hashirama's SM can react to Jikukan Ninjutsu, Naruto needed RSM to achieve the same feat.
4. Hashirama's healing powers can't be matched even with Kurama's healing abilities.
The only thing Naruto has above Hashirama is speed but that's redundant with Hashirama's Sage Mode. Everything Naruto has offer gets countered by Hashirama.
BSM Naruto has nothing, absolutely nothing to defeat Shinsusejuu U_U
[Naruto strictly needs Rikudou Chakra to be above Hashirama. Don't get me wrong, I know Naruto from Chapter 671-698 murks Hashirama but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama gets overwhelming upper-hand in this battle]
#Hashirama and Sasuke [Mangafacts]
1. Hashirama's SM can react to Hiraishin, Sasuke's swap is inferior to Hiraishin.
2. Hashirama shat on EMS Madara's Kanseitai Susanoo combined with Full Kurama, Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo isn't even on the same level [Bijju Susanoo is different U_U]
3. Hashirama defeated VOTE Madara, Non-Rikudou Sasuke doesn't have Madara level chakra and his battle ability has downgraded a lot with loss of his left arm U_U
Sasuke is dangerous in close range thanks to his speed and swap but Hashirama has SM to react and can very well fight from a long distance.
And I wonder what Sasuke can do to Shinsusenjuu?, Madara with all his capabilities needed full Kurama and even after that he got beaten down.
[Sasuke strictly needs Rikudou Chakra and his other armto be above Hashirama. Don't get me wrong, I know Sasuke from Chapter 671-698 murks Hashirama but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama goes in a league of his own.]
2. Hashirama shat on EMS Madara's Kanseitai Susanoo combined with Full Kurama, Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo isn't even on the same level [Bijju Susanoo is different U_U]
3. Hashirama defeated VOTE Madara, Non-Rikudou Sasuke doesn't have Madara level chakra and his battle ability has downgraded a lot with loss of his left arm U_U
Sasuke is dangerous in close range thanks to his speed and swap but Hashirama has SM to react and can very well fight from a long distance.
And I wonder what Sasuke can do to Shinsusenjuu?, Madara with all his capabilities needed full Kurama and even after that he got beaten down.
[Sasuke strictly needs Rikudou Chakra and his other armto be above Hashirama. Don't get me wrong, I know Sasuke from Chapter 671-698 murks Hashirama but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama goes in a league of his own.]
Madara Uchiha:
Madara with Dual Rinnegan.
I don't think this needs any explanation. Dual Rinnegan Madara i.e. full power of Rinnegan wielded by it's original owner,
There's a reason why we never got Dual Rinnegan Madara in action, when Dual Rinnegan Juubi Jin came back he simply activated the Mugen Tsukuyomi [Sasuke and Naruto barely saved their own necks] and when he was about to fight Black Zetsu intervened.
Now let's do some simple math, remove Juubi from Madara and Rikudou Chakra from Naruto and Sasuke. What do you think will happen?
Limbo kills Naruto and Sasuke pretty much instantly. Naruto won't be able to sense it or do anything to it, Sasuke can see it but has nothing to hurt the Limbo U_U
Rikudou Chakra and Gai's 8th Gate are the only things that kept Limbo at bay, with the absence of both Limbo is unbeatable. Dual Rinnegan Madara is simply unbeatable without Rikudou Chakra U_U
#Inb4 Mistaking Edo Madara as Dual Rinnegan Madara:
Edo Madara had fake Rinnegan U_U
I don't think this needs any explanation. Dual Rinnegan Madara i.e. full power of Rinnegan wielded by it's original owner,
You must be registered for see images
There's a reason why we never got Dual Rinnegan Madara in action, when Dual Rinnegan Juubi Jin came back he simply activated the Mugen Tsukuyomi [Sasuke and Naruto barely saved their own necks] and when he was about to fight Black Zetsu intervened.
Now let's do some simple math, remove Juubi from Madara and Rikudou Chakra from Naruto and Sasuke. What do you think will happen?
Limbo kills Naruto and Sasuke pretty much instantly. Naruto won't be able to sense it or do anything to it, Sasuke can see it but has nothing to hurt the Limbo U_U
Rikudou Chakra and Gai's 8th Gate are the only things that kept Limbo at bay, with the absence of both Limbo is unbeatable. Dual Rinnegan Madara is simply unbeatable without Rikudou Chakra U_U
#Inb4 Mistaking Edo Madara as Dual Rinnegan Madara:
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Edo Madara had fake Rinnegan U_U
Once again I'm perfectly aware of the fact that Naruto or Sasuke from Chapter 671-698 murk Hashirama or Madara but that was temporary power and with that gone Hashirama and Madara go above them. Although Full extent of Dual Rinnegan Madara is unknown but I'll give Naruto and Sasuke the benefit of the doubt.
Hope you guys enjoyed :flowers
