[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

[Tigerrr in the woods]

SK, you really shouldve tagged us inactives tbh.

Please don.t go spinning out of control and start posting like crazy

 

[TheLukundo]

GABI HELP ME THEN

WHY RATCHET

 

[Aether9]

Ratchet doesnt look so good for the past 2 phases, since I dont recall him pushing or giving his reads(explained) of sus, he has been kinda in the sidelines so far, definitely not seeing him as townie Ratchet here.

Also I've ISOed osie and things doesnt look good for him either, then there is AL.

personally I think there is a possibility for Ratchet/osie to be scum, but can see AL one of them as well if there are 5 mafia.

 

[Aether9]

@Just_Red I am not seeing much from you.

 

[Aether9]

Umm I think I responded to you asking which reads you wanted explained at the time.

nah, I dont think so.

here me asking you to give more detailed explanation on your reads, because these are the only reads you gave so far but didnt explain much, and since you said you'd expand your reads later on but never did

Spoiler

Alright I am going to make this easier for both you and myself, tell me why you think your town read is townie and why your scum read is scummy? If you already said that you can bring the quote as proof, because its hard having to catch up and remember everything.

Also @osieorb18 can you give more detailed explanation on your read?

These are so far all the reads you gave, and none of them are detailed. And you said multiple times that you'd give your detailed explanation/read/ISO but never delivered. lets see:

Spoiler

Okay, G2H reads prior to the flip. These will probably change at least a bit by the start of Day 3.

Townreads:

Houtarou - Houtarou gutreads as a flaily little lamb... I hope they learn to towncore with people.
Toujo - Hard town soulread on frustration.

Townleans:

AL_sama - Sus in mannerisms, checked this out for Alice's sake. AL's interaction with Ansatsuken makes me feel like they're not W/W.
Alice - Their tunnel on AL and Tigerrr comment feel out of touch with the gamestate but not really in a scummy way, necessarily. Some scum equity but I have to really give them a lot of credit in that case.
beeboat - Mindmeld on gamestate. Low content, so someone to look closely at later, but I like most of the content that they have.
Elmage G Ace - Outrage to me avoiding a tie feels forced but the way they were approaching the thread looked malice-free.
Just_Red - Not doing much, but what they are doing is townie enough that I feel like they're an easy mislynch. I feel for how disconnected they seem to be from the thread, their vote is not a bad one.
Kyte_ - I didn't want to elim here today. It just feels too likely that Kyte_ is one of the weaker town players being pushed for an easy miselim.
-PK- - I like their reads and attitude. I think I misread their playstyle in the last game, and I think I might have a better feel of it now?
Rej - Ehh. Hit or miss here. The fact that he sorta seemed to be coasting along and accepting the status quo isn't great but he also seemed to be somewhat open-minded.
TheLukundo - Would have been dependent on his reads, but I am leaning town with some reservations. The fact that he refused to interact at times is not a good sign, even if I like enough here to not scumread him yet. Keeping in mind for later.
XTMF - Townie sentiments, even if I have other concerns here.

Scumreads:

Aether9 - A lot of mild shade, dodging around, and waiting. Not happy about this slot at all.
Ansatsuken - Was sus due to D2 voting pattern. I think that they have a lot of scum equity in their behaviour.
Imperfection - Not really present in the thread. Really seems to be trying to coast.
Ryu Kishi - No read here yet. POE'd into scumreads.
Tigerrr in the woods - No read here yet. POE'd into scumreads and I don't like their pop-in.

This is pretty low on reasoning, but that's what you get for now. I'll write an expanded version with some detail later.

As town, I can't prove that someone is town beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I will be working out a set of detailed reads over the next 24 hours.

I'm going to sit down and form a new and detailed readlist when life stops getting in the way.

One-by-one ISOs will happen when I get the chance on people on whom I am less than confident.

Heres the start of the Ansa push, then you do a 180 flip which doesnt make any sense:

Spoiler

@Alice in Noodleland: Talk to me about Ansatsuken. You feel they're scum? I definitely had some scum pings; just read them over.

AL-sama and Ansa are both bugging me, but if either of them is scum, the other one is probably town. Ansa looks a little worse to me at this moment.

Votelynch: Ansatsuken

Catching up more and more... So far, I'd elim in Ansatsuken/Imperfection. Ansa for high scum equity and Imperfection for appearing to be trying to coast.

What's wrong with an elimination of Ansatsuken?

I think between me, you, @Elmage G Ace, and @TheLukundo, we can get at least a start on an Ansa wagon.

Supports my Ansa/Imp theory.

I don't know if this is shade towards me or someone else, but my point is vote patterns. I came in with the read that Kyte_ and Toujo were V/V wagons and partially based my other reads on that. If I'm wrong, then I reevaluate because scum rarely oscillate between town and scum. If I'm right, then I push the heck out of Ansa for oscillating V/V.

Scumreads:
Ansatsuken - Was sus due to D2 voting pattern. I think that they have a lot of scum equity in their behaviour.

Absolutely. Kyte_ just flipped town which supports the idea that you were flip-flopping between town wagons.

Ansa is also a much more certain scumread what with the flip. I'm also suspicious of some late vote changes towards Kyte and away from Ansa, especially given the general apathy from the thread.

I'm going to sit down and form a new and detailed readlist when life stops getting in the way.

up to this are all pushing or seeing Ansa as scum.

Okay... So the no-claiming, info-in-writeups game is not at all the style that I'm used to playing. I'm reevaluating a lot of the game based on that. That said...

%%%

I'm backing off from attempting to take a leading towncore role for now. I don't feel comfortable enough with my analysis of the gamestate at the moment. I think my reads had some merit to them, but I also believe that some of them, particularly my read on Ansa, are 100% wrong. Actually, @Ansatsuken is flipped to my top townread.

then all of a sudden this. Like wtf is this, because this doesnt make any sense. To me it seems like you gave up on Ansa because people dont seem to buy Ansa being scum, at the same time trying to buddy him by mentioning him. Because I cannot make anything out of it that make sense of this 180 degree flip on Ansa.

Rereading SK's rules posts and writeups made me convinced that my approach to the game was not what the host intended and that while behavioural tells are still behavioural tells, and vote analysis was still useful (curse whoever removed votals for this phase, btw), I needed to focus a hell of a lot more on the writeups and entirely rethink the game.

still dont get it, how does SK's rules and writeups change your perspective of Ansa?

More than a little shaken, so this is my entirely new real-time notes while gathering together all information from my perspective... Any non-contextual flavour is from the wiki. I've never read the comic, and am stalled out on watching the show for personal reasons.

IMO, Mafia if at all decent will have effectively collected all of this information so it doesn't hurt to post it in thread.

So...

Baam team and everyone on it is Town:

1. 25th Baam - Kyte_
2. Rak - Michelle
3. Cha - Elmage
4. Baylord Paul
5. Baylord Doom
6. Baylord Yama
7. Khun
8. Dowon
9. Evankhell
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

Jahad team includes/is Mafia???:

1. HQ Solder (Soldier?)
2. Princess Maschenny Jahad
3. Squadron Commander 1
4. Squadron Commander 2 (Po Bidau Lyborick Khun) - Poison
5. Squadron Commander 3 (Lo Po Bia Yasartcha)

A neutral player or faction may exist. If so:

1. White

%%%%%
%%%%%

From a reasonable balance perspective, there's probably not 7 anti-town players in this setup? I hope? So I'm going to tentatively say that we know that there's 14 town.

%%%%%
%%%%%

Events:

D1:

- Each player lost 1 HP, and VC was reset. Probably a town ability based on flavour, though it could still be Squadron Commander 1 or White.

D2:

- Dowon healed 5 people.
- Someone enabled nighttalk.
- Something else happened.

D3:

- Evankhell made votes compulsory.
- Jahad made votes anonymous.

%%%%%
%%%%%

Flavour Hints I've noticed so far:

• The Princess and Squadron Commanders may have all been on Kyte_'s wagon. Khun likely was not.
• OH GOD, THERE MIGHT BE MULTIPLE Baams.
• Yasartcha killed Elmage (Cha).

%%%%%
%%%%%

As I expected based on pure behaviour and wagons, Kyte_ was town. Toujo is probably also town. I trust that gameflow read even if the Ansa-specific read was wrong.

%%%%%
%%%%%

One-by-one ISOs will happen when I get the chance on people on whom I am less than confident.

still nothing suggesting anything on your Ansa flip.

Please don't give up! I think you have a lot of potential to towncore this game! I'm sorry I didn't realize you were town earlier.

still wondering.

About Kyte:

Kyte_ is very up in the air for me. Are there any other potential elimination options, or can someone point me to a case on Kyte_?

Kyte, I'm townleaning you, but if you want people to elim elsewhere, you'll be better off talking about why others are scum.

at first you started town reading him, IDK what made you town read him but lets see:

You only have one read? On Toujo?

Assuming that people believe that you and Toujo are both town, who should be eliminated?

I don't know how experienced you are, but I'm guessing you're relatively new? If you are experienced, this looks like a perspective slip. Essentially, if you're town, the only thing you know is that you are town. Therefore if you feel that anyone else's lynch is worse than your own lynch, you either are making a mistake as town, or you're just scum.

He's tunneled on Toujo. Based on reading the gamestate, there needs to be an elimination outside of the two of them. I'm gutreading him as maybe 70% inexperienced town flailing, but with a 30% possibility of inexperienced scum flailing.

after reading these posts, it seems like you dont town read Kyte for him only going after Ratchet, except you only start to slight suspect him for tunneling Ratchet, as if he hasnt been doing that from D1. The point is why bring that up this late in the phase after town reading him when he was about to get lynched?

As for Houtaro:

Townreads:
Houtarou - Houtarou gutreads as a flaily little lamb... I hope they learn to towncore with people.

here you read him as your strongest town read.

This is a pretty weak attempt at shade. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your repetitive attempts at this are rather scummy.

this is the first time you say that Houtaro feels scummy to you because he has been going after you repeatedly going after you, tell me why would scum want to shade someone who town read them like why and like why would you choose that to see Hou as scummy? Feels to me you are bothered that he as been going after you even after giving him your strongest town read.

That said, Houtarou has dropped significantly between attitude and clearly not reading my posts while trying to interact with me. Ansa is also a much more certain scumread what with the flip. I'm also suspicious of some late vote changes towards Kyte and away from Ansa, especially given the general apathy from the thread.

this is after that, now he is dropped in town read, which is again is weird, because this is actually feels like a shade to me.

I just voted for Houtarou. Their posts since I subbed in have screamed anti-town to me more and more each time I look at them.

More thoughts to come (I'm about 10 pages back.)

And all of a sudden you started voting Houtaro, like what? I thought he only dropped in town read to you but now you are voting to lynch your once most town read? Seems like the easiest choice here, because IDK how could your strongest town read turn to your strongest scum read. He must've done some super scummy thing for that to happen.

I had you dropping into my PoE prior to any suspicion on you. I pointed out scummy behaviour from you near the start of the day phase. You also were never a stronger townread than Toujo. This constant misrepresentation of my posts and continued constant shade in a large number of your posts are further scum points for you. You saying your elimination is likely may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, telling me that I'm playing badly doesn't help reads of your alignment. It makes the game, and in turn, the community, less enjoyable for a player who is unfamiliar to said community, while helping to cement a desire to get you out of the game as someone anti-town.

Houtarou's handling of Ansa suggests that Red is town and Houtarou is trying to direct Ansa towards a mis-elimination.

No, there tends to be a contradiction in scum's posts. Because they're lying.

Also, noone is saying that you definitely have zero reason for something in a game of mafia if they say there's no reason. Instead they're saying that you've shown no reason. The same is true about most of your other complaints about what people have said about you. Your persecution complex looks very scummy.

Houtarou's flailing in posts like 3294 feels like caught scum. He's treating people like they're stupid if they don't townread him. He's misrepresenting people and shading them while crying about being shaded and being called out for scummy behaviours.

Houtarou is my elimination choice for the day unless a fantastic case is made elsewhere.

still nothing new or convincing here, you are just further shading him for questioning you.

Wow, did Houtarou just admit to trying to direct votes away from scum? That seems incredibly self-aware of what they were doing.

another shading.

All in all, I am not going to bring all of them since this back and forth with Houtaro continues for quite some time, where you just point out his flaws to add to your reason for pushing him.

Other things that caught my eyes:

Spoiler

G2H from what I've read so far, I'd have a PoE of Aether, Elmage, Houtarou, Imperfection, but I need to really go over things in more detail so take that with a giant grain of salt. I shoulda read more closely earlier since I sorta expected to replace in at some point, but no use crying over spilt milk.

I'm currently scouring through all of the flavour for any info I can find since I guess that's optimal.

here is a list of your PoE, but never really expand on them itt.

In the unlikely scenario that Houtarou flipped town, there's a lot of questions that come up. I'm confident that you are town. I feel like the effort that XTMF has put into their read of Houtarou means that XTMF is town regardless. Aether and AL look bad, so they are part of the PoE.

no explanation of the PoE

Tentative PoE until I can stop focusing on other things in life:

Houtarou > Ryu Kishi > Aether9 >>> AL_sama > Just_Red

%%%%%
%%%%%

@Toujo I hope you can step away, calm down, come back and reevaluate.

another PoE without any reason or explanation.

For reference, one of the ways I often try to play is to form a towncore that is slightly bigger than what I suspect is the size of the scumteam and then POE outside of that core. I don't quite have a solid core yet, but Ansa, Rej, Toujo, XTMF are the start of it.

here also, dont remember you ever explaining your town reads.

So Houtarou wasted the previous day phase. Great.



I don't like this entrance. Tentatively:

Votelynch: Just_Red

I'm going to go reread Beeboat some time before bed.

here again, no read on red.

As for AL

AL-sama and Ansa are both bugging me, but if either of them is scum, the other one is probably town. Ansa looks a little worse to me at this moment.

Votelynch: Ansatsuken

Townleans:
AL_sama - Sus in mannerisms, checked this out for Alice's sake. AL's interaction with Ansatsuken makes me feel like they're not W/W.

what made you change town lean AL, after this, because I dont recall a single time you mentioned anything about town reading AL, then all of a sudden you town read him, because IDK why would you choose interaction with Ansa, who hasnt even been confirmed as reason to town lean AL.

In the unlikely scenario that Houtarou flipped town, there's a lot of questions that come up. I'm confident that you are town. I feel like the effort that XTMF has put into their read of Houtarou means that XTMF is town regardless. Aether and AL look bad, so they are part of the PoE.

Then AL looks bad again? Like how, because I am not getting your thought process here.

 

[Ryu Kishi]

woah woah woah quite a few people are calling me scum

why m I scum exactly??

Al scuma.

 

[Aether9]

woah woah woah quite a few people are calling me scum

why m I scum exactly??

lol

 

[Tigerrr in the woods]

GABI HELP ME THEN

WHY RATCHET

I wrote my reason a few pages back.
You have to make your own decision Luke. -.-

 

[Aether9]

seems like no one is coming to discuss

Votelynch: Toujo

for now

 

[Aether9]

GABI HELP ME THEN

WHY RATCHET

its time you start reading the thread

 

[SoulKiller]

Vote Tally:
X : Toujo
Osieorb18 : Just_Red > Ryu Kishi
Ryu Kishi : Just_Red > Toujo
Rej : Toujo
Ansa : Touji
Tiggerrr in the woods : Toujo
Toujo : Rej > Ryu Kishi
Aether : Toujo


Vote Count:

Toujo x6
Ryu Kishi x2

Countdown to DP4 (about 4 hours left for DP4) :

You must be registered for see links

Players :

1- @Toujo
2- @Imperfection
3- @Just_Red
6- @Tigerrr in the woods
7- @Rej
8- @Ryu Kishi
9- @Ansatsuken
11- @TheLukundo
13- @Aether9
14 - @AL_sama
15 @osieorb18
16 - @-PK-
20- @XTMF

 

[Premfection]

@Toujo @Aether9 @beeboat what do you think of Alice so far? Nothing triggered to you about her?

Why she asked them of all people here?

Was Poison interactions with beebot in D1 about being a team in Mafia tournament a lowkey open wolfing?

Omg lol.
I am wondering if poison may have slipped here and tagged her whole scum team. Shes 1/3 so far since beeboat flipped scum.... and if that's the case... no wonder she was sacrificed lol.
Just I'm really unsure of Aether tho because of how much pressure beeboat put on them.

I guess if Toujo flips scum I'd be more inclined to believe that Poison tagged her whole scum team there.

Welp, I'm going with this
Votelynch: Toujo

sorry @SoulKiller for not being around as much this DP.

 

[AL_sama]

Al scuma.

lol

no is it really cause I m inactive??

 

[Aether9]

no is it really cause I m inactive??

its sort of mixed between your lack or playing or scum hunting in general, I am not seeing a townie game from you and there are plenty of other reason that has been mentioned before which you dont seem to address any of them to give your perspective.

 

[AL_sama]

can everyone give me their number one suspect??

 

[Aether9]

Omg lol.
I am wondering if poison may have slipped here and tagged her whole scum team. Shes 1/3 so far since beeboat flipped scum.... and if that's the case... no wonder she was sacrificed lol.
Just I'm really unsure of Aether tho because of how much pressure beeboat put on them.

I guess if Toujo flips scum I'd be more inclined to believe that Poison tagged her whole scum team there.

Welp, I'm going with this
Votelynch: Toujo

sorry @SoulKiller for not being around as much this DP.

I dont know why would scum slip like that, its more like she was trying to distance herself from bee there.

 

[-PK-]

nah, I dont think so.

here me asking you to give more detailed explanation on your reads, because these are the only reads you gave so far but didnt explain much, and since you said you'd expand your reads later on but never did

These are so far all the reads you gave, and none of them are detailed. And you said multiple times that you'd give your detailed explanation/read/ISO but never delivered. lets see:

Heres the start of the Ansa push, then you do a 180 flip which doesnt make any sense:

Spoiler

up to this are all pushing or seeing Ansa as scum.



then all of a sudden this. Like wtf is this, because this doesnt make any sense. To me it seems like you gave up on Ansa because people dont seem to buy Ansa being scum, at the same time trying to buddy him by mentioning him. Because I cannot make anything out of it that make sense of this 180 degree flip on Ansa.



still dont get it, how does SK's rules and writeups change your perspective of Ansa?



still nothing suggesting anything on your Ansa flip.



still wondering.

About Kyte:



at first you started town reading him, IDK what made you town read him but lets see:





after reading these posts, it seems like you dont town read Kyte for him only going after Ratchet, except you only start to slight suspect him for tunneling Ratchet, as if he hasnt been doing that from D1. The point is why bring that up this late in the phase after town reading him when he was about to get lynched?

As for Houtaro:


here you read him as your strongest town read.



this is the first time you say that Houtaro feels scummy to you because he has been going after you repeatedly going after you, tell me why would scum want to shade someone who town read them like why and like why would you choose that to see Hou as scummy? Feels to me you are bothered that he as been going after you even after giving him your strongest town read.



this is after that, now he is dropped in town read, which is again is weird, because this is actually feels like a shade to me.



And all of a sudden you started voting Houtaro, like what? I thought he only dropped in town read to you but now you are voting to lynch your once most town read? Seems like the easiest choice here, because IDK how could your strongest town read turn to your strongest scum read. He must've done some super scummy thing for that to happen.



still nothing new or convincing here, you are just further shading him for questioning you.



another shading.

All in all, I am not going to bring all of them since this back and forth with Houtaro continues for quite some time, where you just point out his flaws to add to your reason for pushing him.

Other things that caught my eyes:

Spoiler

here is a list of your PoE, but never really expand on them itt.



no explanation of the PoE



another PoE without any reason or explanation.



here also, dont remember you ever explaining your town reads.



here again, no read on red.

As for AL



what made you change town lean AL, after this, because I dont recall a single time you mentioned anything about town reading AL, then all of a sudden you town read him, because IDK why would you choose interaction with Ansa, who hasnt even been confirmed as reason to town lean AL.



Then AL looks bad again? Like how, because I am not getting your thought process here.

Osie said in this phase he'd ISO me and Tigerrr but it never came.

 

[-PK-]

Omg lol.
I am wondering if poison may have slipped here and tagged her whole scum team. Shes 1/3 so far since beeboat flipped scum.... and if that's the case... no wonder she was sacrificed lol.
Just I'm really unsure of Aether tho because of how much pressure beeboat put on them.

I guess if Toujo flips scum I'd be more inclined to believe that Poison tagged her whole scum team there.

Welp, I'm going with this
Votelynch: Toujo

sorry @SoulKiller for not being around as much this DP.

I am gonna die laughing if this happens to be the case at the end.

 

[Ryu Kishi]

can everyone give me their number one suspect??

Toujo

 

[AL_sama]

its sort of mixed between your lack or playing or scum hunting in general, I am not seeing a townie game from you and there are plenty of other reason that has been mentioned before which you dont seem to address any of them to give your perspective.

I get your point

however as you can see I m not even trying to do anything and that is causing people to doubt me more and more

if I was scum don't you think I would've been bussed by now for playing like that??