[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

AL_sama

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Because there are like 2 or 3 characters that I found inside the write up that I think not part of a team.

Solo role
-Slayer

"Somewhere in the battle field, a faint power appeared out of nowhere that can be felt by everyone, it's such a foul dark energy that keeps on growing with each casualty in this battle. Also, somewhere in the battle field despite all the rukus someone is still sleeping peacefully. Hopefully though for everyone sake no one disturbs his sleep."

That's what I think
if I m not wrong slayer is obviously town
 

Kyte_

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Care to share with me(your town read)
Please note that none of these reads are sufficiently strong. Also, I suppose I will attach a brief reason to each.

Oreki: I don't think that burst of energy at the EoD was a fake act from him. It's outrageous thinking a scum would buss twice in a row. (There's a rare scenario where a wolf is deprived of his voting power which, in my head, counters this argument.)

Ansa: The amount of confidence and aggression he's displayed speaks for itself. I dare say i have gained a minimum knowledge of his scum meta which entails acting based on a pre-planned script of actions and adopt a passive attitude. This time not only he's too fluid in his stances, but I see some of his point of views.

Elmerge: Am I the only one who finds this guy too logical? It's not always AI, depending on the deductive reasoning of his logic. I might not agree with him on some statements, but the fact that he stopped, thought about the progression of the game, and called it out is a good sign in my book.

Rej: I'd like to think there's a level of paranoia to his actions that i don't think he's putting up. As much as I don't like that he's deprived from any solid arguments that could be attributed to him, I feel like it's because he's too focused on weighing up the potential consequences of his actions which prevents him from taking a logical stance.
 
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Kyte_

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Man why can't we all vote Rhed or so, if Kyte should ever flip town, then we might have lost a super strong town player. The possibility stands, even if I myself am super super curious about what's his alignment... argh.
No. Rej. In the off chance that we mislynch this phase, we'll reverse back to this loop in a continuous fashion until one of us die. Two vocal players arguing against each other will only create an empty noise of paranoia and misconceptions. Rather, you want to set a standard for trusting either of these two players further into the game (which would in turn benefit the town greatly in the future).

And if I'm being frank, I'd be too tired of having a second go at this.
 
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XTMF

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Please note that none of these reads are sufficiently strong. Also, I suppose I will attach a brief reason to each.

Oreki: I don't think that burst of energy at the EoD was a fake act from him. It's outrageous thinking a scum would buss twice in a row. (There's a rare scenario where a wolf is deprived of his voting power which, in my head, counters this argument.)

Ansa: The amount of confidence and aggression he's displayed speaks for itself. I dare say i have gained a minimum knowledge of his scum meta which entails acting based on a pre-planned script of actions and adopt a passive attitude. This time not only he's too fluid in his stances, but I see some of his point of views.

Elmerge: Am I the only one who finds this guy too logical? It's not always AI, depending on the deductive reasoning of his logic. I might not agree with him on some statements, but the fact that he stopped, thought about the progression of the game, and called it out is a good sign in my book.

Rej: I'd like to think there's a level of paranoia to his actions that i don't think he's putting up. As much as I don't like that he's deprived from any solid arguments that could be attributed to him, I feel like it's because he's too focused on weighing up the potential consequences of his actions which prevents him from taking a logical stance.
No town read on me, eh?
 

Just_Red

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Here's an ISO on XTMF. Note, that I am doing this ISO with the intention of trying to establish a town core. I am doing it on XTMF because based of my theory that those who voted Posion early in the last dp are most likely not mafia. And XTMF having done that, immediately goes atop my list. This ISO is to see if he should stay there, or be locked there, as a town core to me.


His first post:
Do people pocket this early on this site?
I'm not going to dig deep into this, that'll be stupid. I just want to point out here that its not a fluff post. The user, starts off with an accusation, in game.

Upon his third post:
##Vote Poison
He votes poison. The only evidence that this probably wasn't a RVS was his second post on Posion:
This is a rough entrance to the game.
[To Poison]
This still doesn't mean his onto Poison here, and could still just be RVS.

He makes a few more posts, all mostly just weak jabs at people:
Not really sure what is up with this nothingburger of a post.
Is it? To me, that's a meta read list and what the hell is that supposed to help? But what do you see in Imp's list that could potentially be helpful?
Te majority of his following posts, from post 186 - 302 can be summed up in this one post from his:
Conversation is bad on this site? I didn't throw down a vote on Luke or Michelle for what they did, I'm just asking questions trying to understand the logic behind the opening of this game. If you don't think there's anything there, that's fine, since I'm not sure there's anything there anyway. But how am I going to solve this game if I'm sitting here doing nothing? Should I just resort to calling everyone 'scum,' and seeing how they react, because that's certainly the trend I'm witnessing so far.
@bold, he is mostly just asking players of this game. Very similar to AL's playstyle early on.

Okay, after aprox. 40 posts from him, I'm going to start applying my method for finding out if someone is scum. So I'll be running it by this criteria:
1) Do they have contradictions
2) Are they reaching?
3) Do they have incomplete statements[as in saying an idea or thought but leaving it open to mean two have two separate contradicting interpretations. This is scummy because you are speaking without actually contributing your actual opinion. By waiting till someone infers what you did, or asks you, you can complete the statement to fit the narrative that suits you best at the moment.]
4) No clear stance on players

From post 962 - 1309
X states thier stance on a player:
Toujo: I feel Ratchet and I have a similar play style so I understand what he's been trying to do early on in the game. He's someone I'm going to read over closely when I go back over this phase, but he's leaning town for me.

Imperfection: He started off slightly rough for me, but he made some really genuine/innocent posts and I took a step back from him for a bit. His reentry into the game was a bit jarring, but I admit that he was on lesser focus for me during that time. Slight town lead here.

Just_Red: I think he's one of our inactives? Null.

Michelle: You know, I can't really remember why I didn't like her entrance, but I know that as she continued her conversation with Ratchet, I felt I got more of a town vibe. I obviously don't know Michelle as a player or a person, but I did feel a genuine tone of frustration and banging of her head against the wall. I'll put her town right now.

Alice in Noodleland: If I wake up early enough and get in my run tomorrow, Alice might be on the shortlist to iso. I think they fired off a couple of strong opinions and that there was a little noise surroundings what they had been about. Null because I can't remember the content of her posts.

Tigerrr in the woods: I'll have to check their posts outside their interaction with me, but I feel like they've been poking and prodding the game properly. I like Tiger's questioning of The Supreme Alliance and it felt like he was legit trying to uncover a bit more details of what was going. He's sitting town now.

Rej: Pft, no recollection of their posts. Null.

Ryu Kishi: I think this is the one with the Madara eye as an avatar. I think he put some pressure on Aether which I'll have to revisit because I kind of felt Aether was playing suspiciously to open this game and I'm glad someone went after him (Bee did as well). I think I'll put him null, though, because I don't remember his specific points.

Ansatsuken: Slight town read here. I thought he was aggressive in a townie way with his comments and questions and it felt like he was trying to put something into motion.

Houtarou: Houtarou kind of flipped here today. When he first entered into the game, there was something that kind of caught me off guard (he's probably on the iso list, too). I thought he had a couple of good lines of inquisition with myself and Aether. I'm willing to give him a town lean here.

TheLukundo: Playing an erratic game so I'm not really sure why. I feel like most of his posts come off as a crazy townie, though.

beeboat: I feel like Bee here is a strong Mafia player and someone to be aware of. I think they have a good understanding of Mafia and used that to feel out the game in different ways and interactions with players. I think Bee is probably on my iso list as well.

Aether9: Ugh, Aether. So, I think I'm leaning town here. I feel that his page by page analysis was probably his attempt at entering his first game on a new forum. I think his awkward line and way of thinking mixed with his weird way of communicating caught the eye of a few people, but honestly, I can see where the misunderstanding is coming from. I loathe myself to make this read, but yeah, I think he's town right now.

AL_sama: I vaguely remember this guy from OJ but I can't remember his play. I think there was something Michelle said about him making almost safe posts about what's going on in this game. He's somewhere on the iso list, but I also don't like his excuse that he's just not a long post guy. I suppose he sits null, but I'd say closer to the scum line than town line.

RedGloverKing: I know this guy has been posting, but I'm not sure what. I know Ratchet voted him for some reason, and I trust Ratchet's reads, so I'll go with maybe there's a scum read there, but he's probably not my iso responsibility.

PK: Another inactive, right?

Poison: Poison is the number one iso for me tomorrow. The thing is, I know I suspected her when the game opened up, but she kind of disappeared (I know, for legit reasons), so my argument against her is foggy. I know I didn't like it when in post 267 and 286 she calls my post forced. I just stumbled over understanding her need to reiterate that I seemed to be doing something that was forced. I'm curious, however, because there were two or three other people that also accused Poison of being scummy or a scum read. I'll have to look into that more.

Kyte: I don't really remember his posts either, but I know I asked him a question about something. I suppose null.

XDDDDD: Are last inactive, right?


Obviously this read list is a bit rough because I need to reread the game and make a couple of isos. I spent a lot of time just getting familiar with usernames and avatars of players so I knew who was talking throughout the game. But now that I've seen interactions and conversations, I can go back and get a better grip on why those things happened.

PS I don't know anybody's genders on here for sure and I didn't mean to offend anyone if I got anything wrong. I tried to use gender-neutral pronouns for those of you who I was completely unsure about.

PSS This one is for myself and who I need to iso: Poison, Alice, Al, Bee, Houtarou, Imp, Tiger
It's a very in-depth stance, that is very clear as to what they see in the players so far. + Town cred for me.

X is also very consistent on his stance with Toujo:
I don't think Toujo is the lynch today. I do agree his play begs to be looked into further, and I don't know if he's coming out like this because he's excited to play or because it's his first real game here, but I do feel there's something slightly different in his approach. This isn't me suspecting or soft-pushing him, though, I just think I need to dive into the arguments he's had this phase. I just know how he plays the game and I think that a lot of the people coming after him now are doing so because of his play style (for now). I don't know if there are scummy points to what he's been saying because for the last 10-20 pages any argument he's had that extends to five or more posts, I've been glossing over. But I will ask that he isn't lynched this phase.
No I agree with that statement, and if I'm being honest, with the amount of people that have pushed Ratchet because of his play style, his lynch might have some valuable information, but I don't think he's played that scummy this phase nor should be lynched just for information. I've been on Poison since the opening of the game and she hasn't responded that great. There are about three or four others that suspect her too, so I feel like she's a valid alternative. Of course with another twenty-fours still left on the clock, a lot can change. But going after Ratchet simply because of his walls of text doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
+ town cred, no contradictions here

Following these bunch of posts the next batch-- 1310 - 1632
I'd like to point out this post:
Also, might be a tinfoil thought, but the fact that I've had my vote on Poison the entire game combined with the fact that several people have claimed to find Poison scummy, there has been every opportunity to start a wagon, but there hasn't even been a hint of that happening. Good be nothing, but perhaps there is a reason that this wagon hasn't happened yet.
It's his first post, that is following up with his original vote on Poison. Not much is discussed here, more of an observation on his part.

He goes on about Poison here:
So, these are Poison's first few posts in the game, something I called a bit of a rough entrance into the game earlier in the thread. If it's true that whenever she's randed wolf she's subbed out, if she's scum, fooling around might be her idea of a softer landing into this game. I just don't really get why, if you're town, you just want to waste time and fool around doing nothing. But on the other hand, I like to play more seriously than not while still having fun, not the other way around. She also manages to call someone scum right off the bat and then also vote for someone who isn't playing. I also have to add a bit of bias into this next point when I say that if she is playing off-site in another game she's a) somewhat experienced and decent* b) should know how valuable her limited posts are in this game c) know better than to come in, fluff, and distract if she really is town.



So here's a post that really irked me. This is Poison reacting to me voting her. First of all, I'd like to take credit that I can amuse and excite Poison; my top tier charm works even over the Internet, I see. The real first thing I noticed from this post is that she references back to a game (who knows when?) where Soul voted Poison as scum and then Poison went after him, which resulted in what I assume was Soul's lynch (who really cares though). The point is, it feels like she gently tried to push the idea that my vote against her is the result of scum placing a vote. Otherwise, why reference that the only other time you've received a D1 vote is when a scum voted for you? But the real problem in this post is that she tries to dismiss my vote against her by claiming that she isn't playing by her scum meta and that since I don't know her meta, how could my vote even be real? I don't understand why you would try to dismiss my vote as bogus simply off the fact that I don't known what you're meta is. The big reveal that your scum meta is actually just you subbing out is shocking as well because I'm supposed to believe that if you ever rand wolf you'll simply just sub out? That's crazy. Yeah, I don't like your reason of trying to shake my vote off.



This is Poison saying that she liked my post about something I said about Imp giving an early reads list. It felt weird that she completely dismissed my vote and then all of a sudden is agreeing with me next interaction that we have. I actually called her out on it and then she just said that she was the first one to point out Imp's reads list (not sure why that matters).





Of course there's these two posts that set off the back and forth between us. I won't go into much more because I've posted my thoughts on this, but why call my posts forced in two of your posts? I've had this creeping feeling that Poison has been trying to find and build a case against me because there are all these little soft pushes that she does. Also, not to mention she seemed to be trying to use my mention of a religious analogy to discredit my thoughts. Why? To be honest, I just didn't love the way she handled that conversation.



Another insider reference (-_-). I don't get why she said instead of taking a 'second to try and understanding her POV'. That wasn't really what my issue was about and it feels off that she'd claim that this was what was at fault.





Here's Poison's re-entry and subsequent exit post. By her entrance, it felt like she was ready to drop bombs. But those bombs were only posts 810 and 812, which I would hardly call 'addressing everything'.

Poison's play today has also felt optimal and a bit like she's cherry picking. Post 1233 is a fun one where she once again quietly accuses me of doing something scummy (soft-shading), while making one fluff post and asking one question. She also hovered around the Ratchet-Michelle back and forth, which I feel like is an easy-picking.



Here Poison wants to talk about The Supreme Alliance (she seems to be hovering around me a lot). The second bit of her post is interesting, though, because she claims that D1 doesn't have much to give and that we should just wait until the NP write-up. Not only does she endorse this terrible idea, but she doubles down by giving an example of how it worked in a previous game. That to me seems like not only is she content not to participate that deeply at the moment because there's no information which is a complete 180 since she's been saying she's going to catch up the whole game. Finally, she ends with another just bizarre thing to put out into the open by saying that my move COULD by open wolfing, but it can't because because wolves wouldn't do that and I'm familiar with Aether and Ratchet, right?



Here's a bad point. Poison calls out Ansa about how he's been talking about players who are not in this game when she's already done that herself in this game as well as referenced previous games inside of this one. Hypocritical, no?



I mean, Poison completely dismisses Aether here by saying she's only fluffed and isn't playing serious. How is that an excuse for anything? It seems like she's willing to hide behind her past games or possibly even what her town meta is like in order to not respond to Aether.

And here's a fun finisher of all the times Poison said she was going to do later and then never did. I know she's in another game, but that doesn't excuse her for choosing then to use her limited time and posts in this game to fluff and not take things seriously. She also showed that she had time to (selectively) pick out things people said while 'catching up' yet she had no time to respond when people mentioned her? Come on, I can only give you so much leniency for being busy elsewhere.

56
164
173
208
403
813

Six times she mentioned she'd get back to something and never did (there was another but I lost the quote so I won't count it). I mean, she's been vocal about how busy she's been, so most of us should know that, but why always feel the need that you're appearing as if you're actually going to go back and do these things when everyone, you included, knows you don't have the time right now to do so? It feels fake.

Anyway, I'm still onboard with this lynch.
This post, backs his lynch candidate Posion. Note, that this was done about 30-35ish pages before the eod, and apox, 20ish pages from the explosion event stated by SK
+ Town cred for consistency
+ Town cred for having this early read on Poison before she was the clear lynch candidate for DP 1
The following posts within this section are nothing much of significance.

His next 20 posts:
This post is a response to the explosion event made by SK.
I mean, if you're townie, are you going to fire off your ability D1 to stop the wagon? I'm going to assume that that ability (seems almost like a Governor) is bound to be 1x or 2x at most. There's no reason anyone should be hard reading Poison as town so it makes little sense another townie saw Poison as a townie and decided to save her. This feels like a scum move.
He claims he sees it as a mafia move.
[I asked him earlier this dp what he thought, and he still echoed this same belief]
+ Town cred no contradiction here

X keeps his stance on Ratchet:
I'd really like it if Ratchet wasn't the D1 lynch. I don't see how he's scum (yet) and I don't think it makes sense to get rid of him because he's Mr. Fallacy or Mr. Wall.
I keep pointing this out because its a significant fact. X has, since his first read kept to his reads, without, out of the blue changes or contradictory posts against his reads.
He does this a couple more times:
Were you not reading Ratchet as town for most of the game? If you're unsure, you know that there are 17 other options that you can vote?
I mean, I really don't want to sound like I'm defending Ratchet here (because he could flip scum) but I will say for a final time that he's not a great lynch candidate this phase. If people aren't comfortable with Ratchet or Poison, then there are other choices. It feels weird that all of a sudden it came between these two.
I'd like to point out this action could very well be scummy behavior, hard protecting a scum buddy, and when that buddy flips scum, they could use the idea that them hard protecting them was too scummy to be actually considerable. "Why would scum hard protect their own partner so obviously?" But, I doubt such a sanrio is in play. Thus why I'm not really considering scummy but quiet the opposite here.

These next posts are all taking place in DP 2
Of them, X exhibits the same habits as the DP 1. He questions,
What alignment do you think that ability came from?
He keeps consistent on his reads on Toujo:
No, our conservation was about why lynching Ratchet is a bad idea. Now I'm asking you for your case against him. Those are two different things, yeah?
And there stance on the event hadn't changed:
It's fairly obvious Mafia saved Poison, yeah. Thinking anything else just doesn't make sense.

Well, I'll stop with the smart ass remarks if you start using common sense; I'm not here to hold your hand. If you knew what I was talking about, why ask me about it? Just seems duplicitous. I mean, you shouldn't have to take a break to be able to remember the only day ability that's been activated so far. You're getting frustrated me because I keep asking you to catch up and get informed, which you keep insuring my that you are, but yet you don't really seem to have a clue about what's going on in this game, and quite frankly, I don't feel like you've made an effort to do so. That's scum behavior to me.
Okay. I'm going to stop here. After reading the last few pages, of his post, I'll simply be confirming what I said here. This whole ISO can litterly be seen as a love letter or a hard pocket, but do one yourself and come back and tell me X is scum. He checks, all my boxes and he hasn't contradicted, reached, incomplete stated, or had no clear stance on a player. If there is a player, I intend to put into my town core its X, and this ISO is why.

(I was supposed to do two more ISO's one on Michelle to see who she focused, and one on Bee because I legit cant get a clear read on them. Buuut, the eod is almost here)
 

Toujo

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Why are you ISOing X? We're not lynching him, it's not on the table, it hasn't even been invited to dine with us. Now I have seen him hard bus a team mate recently, but that put him in an awkward position eventually, and it required special circumstances, so I doubt it's the same this time around. Is it technically possible? Sure, and if X is alive at LyLo or something my paranoia will probably kick in and I'll start second guessing, but now? Waste of time and focus.
 

XTMF

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Here's an ISO on XTMF. Note, that I am doing this ISO with the intention of trying to establish a town core. I am doing it on XTMF because based of my theory that those who voted Posion early in the last dp are most likely not mafia. And XTMF having done that, immediately goes atop my list. This ISO is to see if he should stay there, or be locked there, as a town core to me.


His first post:

I'm not going to dig deep into this, that'll be stupid. I just want to point out here that its not a fluff post. The user, starts off with an accusation, in game.

Upon his third post:

He votes poison. The only evidence that this probably wasn't a RVS was his second post on Posion:

[To Poison]
This still doesn't mean his onto Poison here, and could still just be RVS.

He makes a few more posts, all mostly just weak jabs at people:
Te majority of his following posts, from post 186 - 302 can be summed up in this one post from his:

@bold, he is mostly just asking players of this game. Very similar to AL's playstyle early on.

Okay, after aprox. 40 posts from him, I'm going to start applying my method for finding out if someone is scum. So I'll be running it by this criteria:
1) Do they have contradictions
2) Are they reaching?
3) Do they have incomplete statements[as in saying an idea or thought but leaving it open to mean two have two separate contradicting interpretations. This is scummy because you are speaking without actually contributing your actual opinion. By waiting till someone infers what you did, or asks you, you can complete the statement to fit the narrative that suits you best at the moment.]
4) No clear stance on players

From post 962 - 1309
X states thier stance on a player:

It's a very in-depth stance, that is very clear as to what they see in the players so far. + Town cred for me.

X is also very consistent on his stance with Toujo:
+ town cred, no contradictions here

Following these bunch of posts the next batch-- 1310 - 1632
I'd like to point out this post:

It's his first post, that is following up with his original vote on Poison. Not much is discussed here, more of an observation on his part.

He goes on about Poison here:

This post, backs his lynch candidate Posion. Note, that this was done about 30-35ish pages before the eod, and apox, 20ish pages from the explosion event stated by SK
+ Town cred for consistency
+ Town cred for having this early read on Poison before she was the clear lynch candidate for DP 1
The following posts within this section are nothing much of significance.

His next 20 posts:
This post is a response to the explosion event made by SK.

He claims he sees it as a mafia move.
[I asked him earlier this dp what he thought, and he still echoed this same belief]
+ Town cred no contradiction here

X keeps his stance on Ratchet:

I keep pointing this out because its a significant fact. X has, since his first read kept to his reads, without, out of the blue changes or contradictory posts against his reads.
He does this a couple more times:
I'd like to point out this action could very well be scummy behavior, hard protecting a scum buddy, and when that buddy flips scum, they could use the idea that them hard protecting them was too scummy to be actually considerable. "Why would scum hard protect their own partner so obviously?" But, I doubt such a sanrio is in play. Thus why I'm not really considering scummy but quiet the opposite here.

These next posts are all taking place in DP 2
Of them, X exhibits the same habits as the DP 1. He questions,


He keeps consistent on his reads on Toujo:


And there stance on the event hadn't changed:


Okay. I'm going to stop here. After reading the last few pages, of his post, I'll simply be confirming what I said here. This whole ISO can litterly be seen as a love letter or a hard pocket, but do one yourself and come back and tell me X is scum. He checks, all my boxes and he hasn't contradicted, reached, incomplete stated, or had no clear stance on a player. If there is a player, I intend to put into my town core its X, and this ISO is why.

(I was supposed to do two more ISO's one on Michelle to see who she focused, and one on Bee because I legit cant get a clear read on them. Buuut, the eod is almost here)
This is a wildly foolish waste of time.
 
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Rej

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No. Rej. In the off chance that we mislynch this phase, we'll reverse back to this loop in a continuous fashion until one of us die. Two vocal players arguing against each other will only create an empty noise of paranoia and misconceptions. Rather, you want to set a standard for trusting either of these two players further into the game (which would in turn benefit the town greatly in the future).

And if I'm being frank, I'd be too tired of having a second go at this.
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XTMF

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First time I've seen an ISO that extensive Day 2 to clear a player as Town when said player had 0 votes on them 3 hours from the end of the day.
What are the chances they're doing it do look productive? I mean, isoing me this late into D2 seems like a weird town thing to do.
 

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Vote Tally:

Ansatsuken:
Toujo > Aether9 > Toujo > Kyte > Toujo
X: Kyte
Elmage G Ace: Al_sama > no one
Alice in Noodleland: Al_sama > PK
The Lukundo: Houtarou
Toujo: Kyte
Ryu Kishi : Aether9 > Kyte > Toujo
Kyte : Toujo
Aether 9 : Kyte
AL : Rej
-PK-: Kyte
Tigerrr in the woods: JUST_RED
Houtarou: Kyte
Rej: Kyte

Vote Count:

Kyte x5
Toujo x3
-PK- x1
JUST_RED x1
Houtarou x1
Rej x1

~Players~ :

1- @Toujo
2- @Imperfection
3- @Just_Red
5- @Alice in Noodleland
6- @Tigerrr in the woods
7- @Rej
8- @Ryu Kishi
9- @Ansatsuken
10- @Houtarou
11- @TheLukundo
12 - @beeboat
13- @Aether9
14 - @AL_sama
15 @RedGloverKing
16 - @-PK-
18- @Kyte_
19- @Elmage G Ace
20- @XTMF

Countdown to DP2 LESS THAN 24 HOURS LEFT!

 

Toujo

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What are the chances they're doing it do look productive? I mean, isoing me this late into D2 seems like a weird town thing to do.
I guess it's possible, but do scum really focus their energy there after this? You'd think they'd ISO me or Kyte or something first, no? I agree it's weird, but what's the scum motivation? Just looking productive? Meh.
 
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