**Sigh** Are we really that slow to say 8 gate is a Tie? Really? lmmfao

[Draegod]

I agree. The fact that Guy dies as a result of using the technique is an after effect. It's no longer considered part of the battle when the other person is dead, the match is over, Guy is technically victorious and THEN falls back and deals with the consequences outside of battle.

Everyone Read this if you are still loss... This man basically broke it down even more for ya!

Interesting. Though, I think some perspective is encompassing this.

I have a hypothetical question. If Gai uses 8 gates, but his opponent simply dodges the whole time without even landing a hit on Gai, Gai dies. Did his opponent defeat Gai, or did Gai defeat himself? Remember, the premise is that Gai chooses his own death <---- don't forget that, that's important.

Is it a downright win for the opponent? Or is it not so black and white, and thus left up to one's own perspective?

Good question My man! But it is the same as out lasting Kakashi and his Kamui thus him dying to chakra being depleted. Yes you have won since kakashi is no longer able to battle (pokemon reference, and if pokemon run out of moves they use the move known as "struggle", I think you get my drift). If Gai were to die fighting madara because he simply cannot put him down then Madara wins since Guy is no longer able to battle in a competition/battle/fight/boxing stand point (it's like Ali doing the Rope-a-dope and the opponents is on steriods going all out but eventually tired and falls out because he can no longer go. Even though Ali didn't do much but last and dodge, he is still declared the victor. But you are right with the perspective part.

Well agreed, i made a thread on the matter but mainly referred to fact that it is his own power and Gai is not ultimately strong as max. 7 gates when he dies:



At the cost of on his life he gets much stonger than about 5 people can grasp in NV.
And dead is not a loss depending on battle mindset, considering many ninja are willing to put their lives on the line; Gai makes it more worthful than many can.

But people still blabber about "top 20 or not" logic while Kishi does not have one.

Yea it makes no sense. But If Guy kills them and is still standing that instance is where he wins and the fight is over! He can die or pass out afterwards but it doesnt matter since it is over already.

Minato used summoning jutsu, saved Naruto, waited for Kushina's speech, chakra transfer with eight trigram seal after RDS. It doesn't kill you instantly. Double standards?

He didnt seal the Opponent and himself yet. Big difference! And the Kyubi was still around waiting as well. Now once minato did the seal, they both (or 3) were instantly simultaneously sealed. That my sir is a tie no matter how you look at it! Why? Because threw all the useless feats you listed, guess what, the Kyubi was still around as well and the fight was not over!)

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And to put it simply for these niggas, I wasn't even going to waste my time but since were at it right now... Say two people are racing, and they both reach the finish line at the same time. That is what you call a tie. Now, say one person reaches the finish line first but over exerts himself and dies ten minutes after. You gon' tell me he didn't win...? He crossed the finish line first and won the race, but because he died, it makes it a tie...? Doesn't even make sense.

MAn they gotta learn! We can only explain it simple for so long! lmao

 

[Inert Brian]

Idiotic thread is idiotic, sorry.

Gai is using 8 gates because the opponent is too strong for the 7th gate.

Ask yourself this: why didn't Gai use the 8th gate against kisame? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T NEED TO!

What, do you think Gai is killing himself here because he feels like dying? NO, it's because his opponent is strong enough that he has to use a suicide tech to win.

-Why did Deidara use C0? Because he had no alternative to beat Hebi Sasuke.

-Why did Hiruzen use RDS? Because he had no alternative to beat Orochimaru and the edo hokages.

-Why is Gai using the 8th gate? Because he has no alternative to beat Madara, 7 isn't enough.

If you have any common sense then you will understand the bolded statement, thank you.

/Thread.

 

[Bogard]

He didnt seal the Opponent and himself yet. Big difference! And the Kyubi was still around waiting as well. Now once minato did the seal, they both (or 3) were instantly simultaneously sealed. That my sir is a tie no matter how you look at it! Why? Because threw all the useless feats you listed, guess what, the Kyubi was still around as well and the fight was not over!

Gai didn't kill the opponent yet. Big Difference! And Madara is still around as well. Now once Gai opened the final gate, Gai instantly became a dead walking body. That my sir is a tie at best no matter how you look at it! Why? Because threw all the useless feats Gai did, guess what, Madara is still around as well and the fight isn't over!

 

[fastrthnwind]

Interesting. Though, I think some perspective is encompassing this.

I have a hypothetical question. If Gai uses 8 gates, but his opponent simply dodges the whole time without even landing a hit on Gai, Gai dies. Did his opponent defeat Gai, or did Gai defeat himself? Remember, the premise is that Gai chooses his own death <---- don't forget that, that's important.

Is it a downright win for the opponent? Or is it not so black and white, and thus left up to one's own perspective?

if he engages a fight with someone and they somehow manage to avoid getting hit the entire time, then his opponent was able to defeat gai in a battle of attrition, where his stamina didnt last as long as his opponents. It was gais fault that he used a technique that would use his energy up in a short amount of time. So in essense he did cause his own demise because he didnt calculate that his opponent would be able to avoid him for the entire duration of the gates.

another point to contribute to OPs post is that everyone dies at somepoint after battle, whether it be natural causes that take a while, or the aftereffects of a technique from an opponent or from their own self inflicted technique. The battle is declared over when 1 side has been KOd/incapacitated/killed or in any situation where they are unable to continue fighting, and if gai survives beyond that point by finishing his opponent of first before he does, then he wins the battle.

a tie only occurs in rare occasions when both gai and the opponent die at the exact same time, which can only happen if the effects of the gates kill him at the same time he kills his opponent, or they are both able to land fatal blows on each other at the same time, effectively ending each others lives simultaneously.

a draw is even more rare because it includes an officially set amount of time one person has to beat the other in order to be declared victorious. if both fighters are still capable of fighting after the time limit, then it is considered a draw.

 

[Draegod]

Idiotic thread is idiotic, sorry.

Gai is using 8 gates because the opponent is too strong for the 7th gate.

Ask yourself this: why didn't Gai use the 8th gate against kisame? BECAUSE HE DIDN'T NEED TO!

What, do you think Gai is killing himself here because he feels like dying? NO, it's because his opponent is strong enough that he has to use a suicide tech to win.

-Why did Deidara use C0? Because he had no alternative to beat Hebi Sasuke.

-Why did Hiruzen use RDS? Because he had no alternative to beat Orochimaru and the edo hokages.

If you have any common sense then you will understand the bolded statement, thank you.

/Thread.

You sir are toooooo slow! That's like saying why did goku go to SS3? lmmfao just because you use a higher form of power doesn't mean you die. 8th Gate is like a transformation Similar to susanoo in sages, RDS or C0 are Techs that happen once and it's over for both you in the opponent. If Guy is still stading after you have been killed is he the victor or not? You must be an internet geek that beats his meat. Have you ever fought or played any type of sport???????

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Everyone Read this if you are still loss... This man basically broke it down even more for ya!

He didnt seal the Opponent and himself yet. Big difference! And the Kyubi was still around waiting as well. Now once minato did the seal, they both (or 3) were instantly simultaneously sealed. That my sir is a tie no matter how you look at it! Why? Because threw all the useless feats you listed, guess what, the Kyubi was still around as well and the fight was not over!)

I'm calling bullcrap.

Spoiler

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He did 2 separate seals. He successfully sealed half of Kurama's chakra within himself and still survived for quite some time.

 

[Draegod]

Gai didn't kill the opponent yet. Big Difference! And Madara is still around as well. Now once Gai opened the final gate, Gai instantly became a dead walking body. That my sir is a tie at best no matter how you look at it! Why? Because threw all the useless feats Gai did, guess what, Madara is still around as well and the fight isn't over!

Who Dafuq mentioned madara????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obv madara will win in the manga. I'm talking about Vs battles in fantasy debates like "sakura vs tsunade" etc etc. This isn't about madara bro, it's about Fantasy what if Battles! You are lost and i hope you get this isn't about madara who will obv win. Come on now bro, Come on now.. SMH

 

[Draegod]

I'm calling bullcrap.

Spoiler

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He did 2 separate seals. He successfully sealed half of Kurama's chakra within himself and still survived for quite some time.

DID...THE...KYUBI....DIE...OR...GET...SEALED...WAS...THE...BATTLE...OVER...YET? Was a Victor declared yet? What Grade are you in BTW?

 

[Bogard]

Who Dafuq mentioned madara????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obv madara will win in the manga. I'm talking about Vs battles in fantasy debates like "sakura vs tsunade" etc etc. This isn't about madara bro, it's about Fantasy what if Battles! You are lost and i hope you get this isn't about madara who will obv win. Come on now bro, Come on now.. SMH

Who dafuq mentioned Kyubi??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obv Kyubi survived in the manga. I'm talking about Vs battles in fantasy debates like "sakura vs tsunade" etc etc. This isn't about Kyubi bro, it's about Fantasy what if Battles! You are lost and i hope you get this isn't about Kyubi who obv survived. Come on now bro, Come on now.. SMH

Just playing your double standards bro

 

[Disquiet]

Good question My man! But it is the same as out lasting Kakashi and his Kamui thus him dying to chakra being depleted. Yes you have won since kakashi is no longer able to battle (pokemon reference, and if pokemon run out of moves they use the move known as "struggle", I think you get my drift). If Gai were to die fighting madara because he simply cannot put him down then Madara wins since Guy is no longer able to battle in a competition/battle/fight/boxing stand point (it's like Ali doing the Rope-a-dope and the opponents is on steriods going all out but eventually tired and falls out because he can no longer go. Even though Ali didn't do much but last and dodge, he is still declared the victor. But you are right with the perspective part.

And a good answer! Though, the difference between Kamui and 8 gates is that the latter is a suicide move. I don't know what the technique "struggle" is since I haven't watched Pokemon in a long time. And the Ali thing you mentioned, I wouldn't say being hyped up on steroids and going all out is guaranteed to put you down during or after the match. You could knock out the opponent, and never even pass out yourself. The way 8 Gates is presented, is that it's guaranteed to kill you. Though, you agreed on the perspective part. And I can see your point.

I have another question.

Spoiler

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Hiruzen sealed Hashirama and Tobirama, seemed to be in pretty good shape (for a technique that supposedly kills you instantly), then went on to try and seal Orochimaru. Based on your premise, would you put this in the same classification as 8 Gates?

 

[Sennin of Logic]

DID...THE...KYUBI....DIE...OR...GET...SEALED...WAS...THE...BATTLE...OVER...YET? Was a Victor declared yet? What Grade are you in BTW?

Half the 9 tails was sealed. The reaper death seal completed a sealing function. Whether or not the 9 tails died or not is irrelevant. Minato specifically said "seal" and it was sealed. That seal was over. If the jutsu completion is what kills Minato, then he should have died right then and there, but he didn't. In other words, it does not kill you instantly. Nor has it been said that it requires you to die instantly. You were caught with double standards and now you're trying to worm your way out.

 

[Exaar]

I have another question.

Spoiler

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Hiruzen sealed Hashirama and Tobirama, seemed to be in pretty good shape (for a technique that supposedly kills you instantly), then went on to try and seal Orochimaru. Based on your premise, would you put this in the same classification as 8 Gates?

The dying part of RDS comes after sealing. Hiruzen sealed the Two hokages in the clones, Thus they took the RDS Hits for him (Hence why the poofed right after sealing the hokage).

The Real hiruzen at the time was still alive because he had yet to use RDS to seal into his body.

After Hiruzen used the sealing part of RDS with his own Body, he pretty much died immediately afterwards

Simply Summoning the Reaper doesn't kill you it's the sealing process that does it.

 

[EKSITE]

RDS doesn't kill you on the spot Hiruzen was shown to be able to fight after sealing hashirama & Tobirma, Minato was able to Use the summoning jutsu & 8 triagram seal after using it.

Your just bending it to your view of sight so here's a Question Bijuu Mode Minato is Overwhelming Gai, he goes 8 Gates and Overwhelme Minato if Minato uses FTG to leave & come back after Might Gai dies of results on would you count that? Did minato run from battle or did Minato win?

 

[Disquiet]

The dying part of RDS comes after sealing. Hiruzen sealed the Two hokages in the clones, Thus they took the RDS Hits for him (Hence why the poofed right after sealing the hokage).

The Real hiruzen at the time was still alive because he had yet to use RDS to seal into his body.

I actually saw that, and was waiting for someone to say that themselves.

My last question, I think.

Does that mean RDS+Clones=legit win?

 

[Exaar]

I actually saw that, and was waiting for someone to say that themselves.

My last question, I think.

Does that mean RDS+Clones=legit win?

I don't see why not

 

[fastrthnwind]

9 gates is a self sacrificing technique like c0 and RDS, however, in most cases, when rds is used, it will kill the user and ther opponent at the same time like when hituzen used shadow clones to simultaneuosly end the lives of the edo kages resulting in a tie.

c0 like the above will generally kill the opponents as well as the user on most cases which will result in a tie

8 gates is a little different because it is NOT a technique that immediately kills the user and the opponent. the user is granted power that will eventually kill him which gives him time to defeat him opponent. if he defeats the opponent and is still alive before the gates aftereffects kill him, then he had won the battle. if bot, then he lost the battle. he ONLY ties when he is killed at the same time as his opponent, which is unlikely to happen considering how much power is granted to the user.

 

[RicardoA]

I disagree.
For me it doesn't matter if both die at the same time or one dies 1 hour after. He dies as a consequence of something that happened during their battle, for the purpose of 'winning' that battle, meaning the opponent pushed him that far.

 

[TrollingSage]

The dying part of RDS comes after sealing. Hiruzen sealed the Two hokages in the clones, Thus they took the RDS Hits for him (Hence why the poofed right after sealing the hokage).

The Real hiruzen at the time was still alive because he had yet to use RDS to seal into his body.

After Hiruzen used the sealing part of RDS with his own Body, he pretty much died immediately afterwards

Simply Summoning the Reaper doesn't kill you it's the sealing process that does it.

Actually you're wrong. Minato didn't die immediately after using the reaper seal. He had time to use he 8 triagrams seal and summon the toad. If you that were true, he could just used a clone to circumvent his own death.
The truth of the matter is the reaper takes the caster's soul as payment for it's services. IMO once you summon the reaper, you can seal as many souls as you want, but in exchange the reaper takes your soul.

 

[Draegod]

And a good answer! Though, the difference between Kamui and 8 gates is that the latter is a suicide move. I don't know what the technique "struggle" is since I haven't watched Pokemon in a long time. And the Ali thing you mentioned, I wouldn't say being hyped up on steroids and going all out is guaranteed to put you down during or after the match. You could knock out the opponent, and never even pass out yourself. The way 8 Gates is presented, is that it's guaranteed to kill you. Though, you agreed on the perspective part. And I can see your point.

I have another question.

Spoiler

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Hiruzen sealed Hashirama and Tobirama, seemed to be in pretty good shape (for a technique that supposedly kills you instantly), then went on to try and seal Orochimaru. Based on your premise, would you put this in the same classification as 8 Gates?

The Edo's being sealed is tricky because they weren't Oru and we have no idea to tell if since it wasn't Oru that the RDS didn't end yet (Obv since it didn't seal his soul like after with oru's arms, or the other half of the kyubi). Basically it could have been since the Ritual wasn't complete that the RD wouldn't seal his soul yet. Because as we all know, unless the ritual is complete it will not end.

So basically the difference is that Since when the ritual has been fully completed we have seen both sealed it's hard to compare since guy can literally kill you instantly walk around, run home, eat then eventually die to the gates. As oppose to the Ritual of RDS (when completed). But again If we see the RDS ritual Completed and the RDS gone and if the user can function normally before being sealed then yes it would be the same as 8th gates killing then chilling home then eventually dying.

 

[Draegod]

Actually you're wrong. Minato didn't die immediately after using the reaper seal. He had time to use he 8 triagrams seal and summon the toad. If you that were true, he could just used a clone to circumvent his own death.
The truth of the matter is the reaper takes the caster's soul as payment for it's services. IMO once you summon the reaper, you can seal as many souls as you want, but in exchange the reaper takes your soul.

You could be right. But it could be a Ritual Goal thing. As in, once you achieve the OG goal (seal this particular person fully) it is complete like with Hiruzen and minato with the other half of kyubi.