Shinra Tensei cancels Kamui [Must Read!]

[Takos]

Interesting, but Kamui is not a gravity technique. I understand why you think so, but the difference between a black hole and a kamui is that black hole draws everything to its center. Matter is destroyed in the process (because of gravitation) to atoms or even smaller particles.
Kamui draws everything to the other dimension. Matter is also NOT destroyed (because it's NOT a gravitational technique) in the process.

 

[Microsword57]

I've studied physics too, and I would say that it is possible, in theory, for shinra tensei to canel out Kamui because of its gravitational properties and its ability to affect time and space. However, I think it have to be a very powerful gravitational force and not just the temporary "burst" that pain/nagato has shown because gravity's ability to bend space/time is limited on the amount of mass an object has, or in this case the chakra used to create the wave of gravitational force through the rinnegan.

Kamui actually creates a hole in the space/time continuum that bridges the NV with Obito's dimension, so, in theory, in order to completely cancel it out, Pain/Nagato would have to conjour gravitational energy equivalent or possibly even greater than that of a black hole as it is unknown whether black holes are simply extremely long wells in the fabric of space/time created by the overlydense amount of matter in the singularity that lead to an infinitely small point of oblivion, or whether they create an actual gap between two universes due to its gravitational forces, which would make them wormholes of sorts.

Since the Kamui is also a wormhole/eventhorizon of sorts with a set focus point, that is set by Kakashi, the origin of that point is where Pain/Nagato would have to actually create the focus of Shinra Tensei, otherwise it would simply create a ripple across the actual tear, but not enough to close it completely.

Could Nagato use Shinra Tensei to hit Obito when he uses Kamui simply for putting parts into his dimension, in other words making him intangible since the wormhole does not seem to be as large as when we see the entire wormhole[

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]. These seems like Kamui on a smaller scale. For when we see the entire wormhole, the larger scale Kamui could this not be a counter[

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]. Which could be the equivalent since this is a larger scale Shinra Tensei? You seem to know the subject best so this is a question best for you....

 

[Bogard]

Well, it's interesting as well. But i think it doesn't work like that

 

[fastrthnwind]

Chibaku Tensei could also do the job, since it seems like an infinite power. But maybe Kishi is thinking the same and might show it to us soon

Im thinking that Chibaku Tensei would create a different problem, because if Pain/Nagato could actually create a singularity from the ball of Chibaku Tensei, then he would also have another black hole that would also possibly suck him into either oblivion or another universe. It would be counterproductive to use, because when trying to counter Kamui, one wants to create an opposing gravitational force that is powerful enough to disrupt the already torn space/time tear into closing completely. If chibaku tensei was used with that amount of power and were to be put into the focal point of the Kamui, then it would do the opposite of Shinra Tensei and and possibly make a bigger opening in Kamui because one would absorb the other, creating a greater gravitational force than before.

 

[Megatolium]

Im not saying Shinra Tensei is a blackhole, its similar to one but just completely opposite.

 

[Microsword57]

It's a real nice explanation, don't know if it could be true but I know why you are wrong.
Aside from the fact that comparing rinnegan jutsu's force with that of black hole is farfetched, Shinra tensei is nothing like a blackhole : a black basically sucks things in ( light, matter etc... ). That's not how shinra tensei or shibaku tensei works. They work more like a big planet with a strong gravity pull. They only attract (or repel for bansho tenin) things. And that wouldn't cancel space/time distorsion.

Do not think of it as comparing Rinnegan techniques to blackholes. It's actually comparing Rinneghan Techniques to Mangekyou Sharingan ones. Which should be more power based off the hype of these Eye techniques. The blackholes are symbolism for the affects of Kamui. Kamui alters the Space of Universe. Shinra Tensei being a Gravity Technique also affects the Space of the Universe and if used when Kamui is used it should distort the Space and Focus of the Kamui as a Technique causing it to fail.

 

[Anakin Skywalker]

Theoretically, Kamui isnt infinte. As Physics utilizes gravity, in Naruto, they are using both gravity and chakra. So it would work if Kakashi had unlimited chakra. Even though gravity is infinite, chakra is finite.

i think u are misinterpreting this ...

theoretically kamui is infinite ..... but practically kakshi's energy to sustain the singularity i.e kamui is finite
again theoretically speaking if kakashi is plugged into a huge energy source say juubi .he can kamui the moon or mars

but even if Nagato or Madara is plugged to the similar energy source (another juubi hypothetically ) their Shinra Tensei wont be able to nullify kakashi's kamui of moom or mars

 

[Megatolium]

Im thinking that Chibaku Tensei would create a different problem, because if Pain/Nagato could actually create a singularity from the ball of Chibaku Tensei, then he would also have another black hole that would also possibly suck him into either oblivion or another universe. It would be counterproductive to use, because when trying to counter Kamui, one wants to create an opposing gravitational force that is powerful enough to disrupt the already torn space/time tear into closing completely. If chibaku tensei was used with that amount of power and were to be put into the focal point of the Kamui, then it would do the opposite of Shinra Tensei and and possibly make a bigger opening in Kamui because one would absorb the other, creating a greater gravitational force than before.

See your point, but advantage in Naruto world is chakra is finite, so Kamui's force wont last long. So Pein or Madara could possibly using Bansho Tenin (A gravity pull, similar to the moon) to cancel it out, though they need to add loads of pressure to revert the flow of the Kamui. It might just work. Since Kamui is dependant on a limited source of chakra, its force wont linger long.

But lets just see what happens, if Kishimoto will conclude this.

 

[fastrthnwind]

OMG so many people to reply and so little time to catch up! xd

 

[Megatolium]

i think u are misinterpreting this ...

theoretically kamui is infinite ..... but practically kakshi's energy to sustain the singularity i.e kamui is finite
again theoretically speaking if kakashi is plugged into a huge energy source say juubi .he can kamui the moon or mars

but even if Nagato or Madara is plugged to the similar energy source (another juubi hypothetically ) their Shinra Tensei wont be able to nullify kakashi's kamui of moom or mars

But I've learned few of Einstein's theories, one of them is when 2 center points of gravity come together with different polarity, lets say one pull and the other push, they cause duds and cancel each other out. Its like batteries in + and + position.

Kinda like how Obito did it with Kakashi's Kamui.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

I thought it was gravity at first but it isn't! It's magnetism.

 

[Microsword57]

Im thinking that Chibaku Tensei would create a different problem, because if Pain/Nagato could actually create a singularity from the ball of Chibaku Tensei, then he would also have another black hole that would also possibly suck him into either oblivion or another universe. It would be counterproductive to use, because when trying to counter Kamui, one wants to create an opposing gravitational force that is powerful enough to disrupt the already torn space/time tear into closing completely. If chibaku tensei was used with that amount of power and were to be put into the focal point of the Kamui, then it would do the opposite of Shinra Tensei and and possibly make a bigger opening in Kamui because one would absorb the other, creating a greater gravitational force than before.

This responded to me as well nice job... Thread/

 

[Megatolium]

I thought it was gravity at first but it isn't! It's magnetism.

Theoretically the same thing. Moon uses gravity to push and pull water tides like a magnet with its + and - polarities.

 

[Megatolium]

Lol thread feels like Discovery Channel

 

[fastrthnwind]

Lol thread feels like Discovery Channel

Yea, Naruto Style :drive:

 

[raziel777]

@microsword57. I get your point but I really don't see shinra tensei countering kamui. Kamui basically tears up the fabric of space and time. Both rinnegan and MS are hyped, kamui even more so.
PS : people should stop comparing shibaku/shinra tensei and bansho tenin with a black hole because they do not have the same properties. It makes the post and argument incorrect thus invalid. They should only focus on how those could logically counter kamui.

 

[fastrthnwind]

@microsword57. I get your point but I really don't see shinra tensei countering kamui. Kamui basically tears up the fabric of space and time. Both rinnegan and MS are hyped, kamui even more so.
PS : people should stop comparing shibaku/shinra tensei and bansho tenin with a black hole because they do not have the same properties. It makes the post and argument incorrect thus invalid. They should only focus on how those could logically counter kamui.

Have you read any of my posts? I mention in them that it would require a powerful gravitational force akin to an actual black hole in order for it to actually work.

 

[Anakin Skywalker]

But I've learned few of Einstein's theories, one of them is when 2 center points of gravity come together with different polarity, lets say one pull and the other push, they cause duds and cancel each other out. Its like batteries in + and + position.

Kinda like how Obito did it with Kakashi's Kamui.

that theory is true bro .... but the nature of kamui and Shinra Tensei is different

kamui -> at a instants rips open the Space/Time continuum to open a path to another dimension ... i.e singularity at an instant with every less energy from kakashi

Shinra Tensei -> at the maximum power will have a very high gravitational pull some X times earth's gravitational pull

obito cancelling kakashi's kamui is logical bcos
both use kamui i.e both created singularity at the same place so they'll cancel out each other

Lol thread feels like Discovery Channel

lol true that

 

[Megatolium]

@microsword57. I get your point but I really don't see shinra tensei countering kamui. Kamui basically tears up the fabric of space and time. Both rinnegan and MS are hyped, kamui even more so.
PS : people should stop comparing shibaku/shinra tensei and bansho tenin with a black hole because they do not have the same properties. It makes the post and argument incorrect thus invalid. They should only focus on how those could logically counter kamui.

Well this is what debating is all about, learning new things and finding answers to problems.

 

[Megatolium]

that theory is true bro .... but the nature of kamui and Shinra Tensei is different

kamui -> at a instants rips open the Space/Time continuum to open a path to another dimension ... i.e singularity at an instant with every less energy from kakashi

Shinra Tensei -> at the maximum power will have a very high gravitational pull some X times earth's gravitational pull

obito cancelling kakashi's kamui is logical bcos
both use kamui i.e both created singularity at the same place so they'll cancel out each other



lol true that

Get what you saying But the singularity uses gravity to pull in its matter. See what im saying?