Shinra Tensei cancels Kamui [Must Read!]

[fastrthnwind]

I would argue that he could not the reason I say this is because kamui seems to work like a wormhole which opens different dimensions and bends space time. Gravity can do the same but that brings us to the question of can a black hole swollow up a wormhole and from my understanding it cannot.

I dont think that it would be like a black hole, but an omnidirectional white hole of sorts in which the origination point of the energy would be in the middle of the wormhole, since shinra tensei expels energy rather than drawing it in. I believe that it could, but only a Shinra Tensei with a gravitational force comparable or stronger than a black hole would be necessary to distort the affected s/t around the wormhole enough to close it.

Ill bring up my posts on this thread. One sec...

 

[fastrthnwind]

I would argue that he could not the reason I say this is because kamui seems to work like a wormhole which opens different dimensions and bends space time. Gravity can do the same but that brings us to the question of can a black hole swollow up a wormhole and from my understanding it cannot. The concept of shinra tensei and other gravity attacks is fairly simple however kamui is pretty tough to understand in its offensive mode. See in reality the process of entering the kamui dimension from our universe cannot happen it deals with the shwarzchild bubble in the wormhole theory so the problem cannot really be solved, once inside kamui the laws of physics come back into play because that is a theoretical possibility. Basically my opinion is no but no conceptual physics can solve this problem because it cannot exist its very nature is contrary to the laws of physics. For more info on why it isnt possible look up shwartzchild wormhole and the shwartzchild bubble.

Well of course it seems impossible, but then again, we are talking about a fantasy world where people can run on walls and create/destroy mountains, which is why we are theorizing about it anyways.

 

[thegreatninja13]

Well of course it seems impossible, but then again, we are talking about a fantasy world where people can run on walls and create/destroy mountains, which is why we are theorizing about it anyways.

i understand this but we this instant is a little different we are refering to a specific event and that event is a question about the nature of a wormhole and that question has been proved to be unanswerable it is slightly different than other cases where is couldnt get there but once its there it could happen what i mean by that is once you are in kamui physics can cover the situation with the assumption that he got there, but we are trying to apply the laws of physics to the transfer of an object through dimensions and that directly violates the laws of physics which means they cant be applied. If we were talking about running on walls we can say well that would be possible if they could emit some counter to gravity or gravity itself, we can do that because with the acceptance of some impossible feats the act is infact possible, with this we are trying to explain an act that has been deemed fully impossible, not impossible just for a human but impossible overall. This is one of the few parts in the series where physics and concept do not coalese in the slightest.

 

[fastrthnwind]

i understand this but we this instant is a little different we are refering to a specific event and that event is a question about the nature of a wormhole and that question has been proved to be unanswerable it is slightly different than other cases where is couldnt get there but once its there it could happen what i mean by that is once you are in kamui physics can cover the situation with the assumption that he got there, but we are trying to apply the laws of physics to the transfer of an object through dimensions and that directly violates the laws of physics which means they cant be applied. If we were talking about running on walls we can say well that would be possible if they could emit some counter to gravity or gravity itself, we can do that because with the acceptance of some impossible feats the act is infact possible, with this we are trying to explain an act that has been deemed fully impossible, not impossible just for a human but impossible overall. This is one of the few parts in the series where physics and concept do not coalese in the slightest.

We also dont have invisible circuits of physical/mental energy flowing throughout our body, though it is similar to other concepts and based on fundamental elements of the human body.

That is the fun of putting science into fiction like this to make things seem more real than just a simple story. We know that there is no real way to know what will actually happen because it doesnt actually exist and would be unnattainable through any form of physics that we have created.Its mostly a question of opinion as to whether you think this would happen or not and trying to use the physics we have to describe in detail our points of view. It doesnt have to be solvable because there really isnt any real thing to solve because it is an imaginary world in Kishis head that is based of of Japanese culture and relies on Japanese philosophy in order to make sense.

 

[thegreatninja13]

We also dont have invisible circuits of physical/mental energy flowing throughout our body, though it is similar to other concepts and based on fundamental elements of the human body.

That is the fun of putting science into fiction like this to make things seem more real than just a simple story. We know that there is no real way to know what will actually happen because it doesnt actually exist and would be unnattainable through any form of physics that we have created.Its mostly a question of opinion as to whether you think this would happen or not and trying to use the physics we have to describe in detail our points of view. It doesnt have to be solvable because there really isnt any real thing to solve because it is an imaginary world in Kishis head that is based of of Japanese culture and relies on Japanese philosophy in order to make sense.

I totally get where you are coming from but the thing is those things dont exist they dont have a theoretical answer because they dont exist but kamui has every charecteristic of a wormhole and wormholes exist where other topics are nutral or require something to happen to humans that doesnt really exist ie chakra this topic has been discussed by physicists and has been determined to be impossible. Where other abilities such as running on walls are merely things that can happen that humans cannot do the idea of traveling from one dimmension to another is totally impossible for anything not just humans basically kishi explained how most things can occur by giving charecters chakra which allows them to do things that other things in the universe can do (produce fire, controll gravity, fly etc) but transporting to other dimensions is not just an issue for humans it isnt possible for anything in the universe. while most things only manipulate the laws of physics this directly breaks them do you get what i mean?

 

[fastrthnwind]

I totally get where you are coming from but the thing is those things dont exist they dont have a theoretical answer because they dont exist but kamui has every charecteristic of a wormhole and wormholes exist where other topics are nutral or require something to happen to humans that doesnt really exist ie chakra this topic has been discussed by physicists and has been determined to be impossible. Where other abilities such as running on walls are merely things that can happen that humans cannot do the idea of traveling from one dimmension to another is totally impossible for anything not just humans basically kishi explained how most things can occur by giving charecters chakra which allows them to do things that other things in the universe can do (produce fire, controll gravity, fly etc) but transporting to other dimensions is not just an issue for humans it isnt possible for anything in the universe. while most things only manipulate the laws of physics this directly breaks them do you get what i mean?

I understand your POV and I can definitely respect that. So, anyways, back to the original question. Do you think that Pain can counter Kamui using Shinra tensei? No explanation using physics is necessary, just your opinion.

 

[thegreatninja13]

I understand your POV and I can definitely respect that. So, anyways, back to the original question. Do you think that Pain can counter Kamui using Shinra tensei? No explanation using physics is necessary, just your opinion.

I would say no the reason being i see it as somewhat instant and it seems to me that it doesnt have a gravity aspect to it rather just moving a specific piece somewhere else gravity's effect on spacetime is pretty simple it pulls (increadibly oversimplified but for all intents and purposes gravity for the most part pulls) kamui seems to be more complex than that. I would say it most closley resembles a wormhole but sliiiightly different to the point that it can actually work.

 

[Munboy]

Good thread. Though I always viewed it as: Kamui uses chakra to warp someone away -> Shinra Tensei disperses chakra -> Kamui is useless in front of Shinra Tensei.