[Discussion] Sharia Law sentences Gay Couple to public lashing.

[~WastelandSociety~]

That's a idiotic law.

 

[Sagebee]

I know a decent amount of sharia law they aren't allowed to break into people's home in hopes of finding that. It's only legitimate if four witnesses see it in a public sphere.

And they don't specifically discriminate on homosexuality but are against adultery period. As for the punishablility of it again it's only punishable if public intercourse is seen.

So what these countries do can't really be classified as sharia law. Also homosexuality has only been accepted in the past couple of decades so if you feel these countries are not caught up to you on what you think is right than you have to open up rational discussion because simple bashing won't get you no where.

 

[Sauce]

Talk about a bogus religion and gov't, let people love who they love and let them atone for their own sins if you really call it a sin. I'm not interested in homosexuality but it's not my place to judge others who are, so it doesn't matter

 

[Kushina89]

Holy shit Islam seems complicated.

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it isn't actually.. i have done my research on islam and it is easy to understand
you know all the beheading, stoning, prophet killing so many people, marrying a kid etc are from hadiths and not from the quran?


todays muslims believe, just like the christians, in false stuff when they acutally should follow the one true thing,which is their holy book
how can they say they are gods man if they follow books that are made by people after the deah of their beloved prophet? i have seen real translations and Videos about it and how the haditsh contradict the words of quran, which is nothing but the words of god and comes above all and yet they say it is the part of islam... with all the evil thing it says?


i'm happy to not believe in religion, because as all of them it is changed by certain people to divide and make us hate on each other

 

[Kushina89]

here it is ~
muslims should wake up before their own Religion gets turned into fully radical shit and forgot what their own holy book taught them

Spoiler

Justification for Hadith in Quran: While there is no direct commandment in Quran to create a set of books to add to Gods laws, the Quran does in many places say: "Obey God and his messenger." To me this does not mean obey God and Bukhari. Bukhari was not a messenger and Prophet Muhammad did not write or compile the Hadith. The Hadith were compiled 250+ years after the death of Muhammad. He didn't follow Bukhari, only Quran. They weren't authorized by God or Prophet Muhammad. Let's look at these verses to see what God means by "obey the messenger":

[5:92] Obey God and obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away then know that the SOLE DUTY of the messenger is to deliver the message clearly.

[64:12] Obey God and obey the messenger. If you turn away, then it is only required of Our messenger to deliver clearly.

So it is clear from these verses that: 1. We must obey the messenger. 2. The messengers sole duty is to deliver the message.

1+2= Obey the message that the messenger delivered. That message can only be Quran.

Muslims have taken "Obey the messenger" to mean eat dates because the prophet liked dates and to brush your teeth with miswak and ride a camel because the Prophet did. How does this have anything to do with worshipping God?

The other verse often used to justify the creation of Hadith is 59:7. But this verse is about distribution of wealth and spoils of war and has nothing to do with adding new religious laws.

Ok let's look at evidence in Quran AGAINST adding Hadith books or any other source to the word of God:

[6:114] "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?" Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[6:116] If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Is Hadith not conjecture and guessing?

[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

[77:50] So in what hadith after this will they believe?

[17:73] They nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!

[53:23] These are but names/attributes that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and wishful thinking, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.

[16:89] The day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. We have sent down to you the book as a clarification for all things, a guide, mercy and good tidings for those who have peacefully surrendered.

[45:6] These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. Then in what hadith after God and his verses will they believe?

[31:6] Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.

So the evidence against Hadith in Quran is there, whether the scholars like it or not. What about Sunnah you may ask. Yes the word "Sunnah" is used in the Quran a few times. But never used for the Sunnah of Muhammad. Only the Sunnah of God. Here's an example:

[33:62] This is God's Sunnah with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's Sunnah.

I am leaving the words Hadith and Sunnah in Arabic to make a point. But you can go look up the verses. They are in there. Another verse used to justify Hadith and Sunnah is this one:

[2:231] ....Do not take God's signs lightly; remember God's blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of AL KITAAB (the book) and AL HIKMAH (the wisdom), He warns you with it. Be conscientious of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.

But as you can see the word Sunnah is not used here. The word Hikmah is used. Hikmah means wisdom, not Sunnah. This has nothing to do with following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.

If you're with me so far, you're probably wondering... Ok, but how can you pray Salat without Hadith? My question to you is: How do you pray Salat WITH Hadith? I've never met one person who learned Salat by opening a Hadith book. And go ahead and try. Show me one Hadith which tells you step by step, start to finish, how to pray Salat. And there are plenty of Hadith on Salat but they're unclear and contradictory. That's why so many people pray so many different ways. Personally I learned when my uncle taught me, not from opening Bukhari. How did you learn?

So what does Quran say about Salat? There are five things that entail Quranic Salat. I can find the verses later if you're interested. It's all in Quran: 1. To do Wudu first (ablution) 2. To face the Qibla 3. To commemorate God alone 4. To recite from Quran 5. To stand, bow and prostrate

Anything else that God didn't mention, is not important. As crazy as it may sound, how many raka you do, how your toe is curled, how your hands are positioned doesn't matter to God from what I can see through Quran. All that matters is that we worship him. Our intention and sincerity matter. The details are for those who want to show everyone "I'm more Islamic than you."

Lastly, I'll say study history. You will find many answers. What Muslim scholars have done to Quran is the exact same thing the Jewish pharisees did to the Torah. They added the Talmud, oral Torah and changed Gods laws and added to his words. Same thing with Hadith. Are we allowed to do this?

[10:59] Say, "Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you made some of it forbidden and some lawful?" Say, "Did God authorize you, or did you invent lies against God?"

[16:116] You shall not invent lies about God by attributing lies with your tongues, saying: "This is lawful and that is forbidden." Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.

As for the "science" of Hadith. It's absurd to me that there needs to be a SCIENCE of Hadith. Humans don't sit around, make a science out of Gods law and decide what is from God and what is not. We humans don't have that right and are overstepping our bounds and making a mockery of Gods word if we do that. A bunch of HUMAN scholars sitting around and deciding what is "Sahih" and part of Islam and what is not, is not one bit different from a bunch of Romans & Christians taking a vote on what gospels will and won't be included in the New Testament Bible at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD.

 

[Belserion]

Yeah in this thread no one did. Also it isn't just islam that gets bashed, its the smae for all the religions in one way or other.
But I still rest my case, law is law.
Muslim women in some major european countries are banned from wearing face veils in public, even though they wan't to. Some muslim players have to get pay cut because they don't want to have the alcohol logo on their shirts as it is against their religion. These are laws and have to be followed, in the same there country has a law and that has to be followed. Not saying that what they did was right or that the law is right just saying that don't break it, try to get it changed.....

Are you talking about the hijab?
That's not entirely banned here it's just because of the on -going terror attacks that stereotypes of Islamic people are frightening some people. While it's silly and somewhat stupid there is a reason to it.

It actually got banned in France because it affected their people. But I don't really see how two same *** couples are affecting your life.

And I'm SURE AS HELL that some people in the crowd loved to see the two guys getting abused, but still watch their favorite lesbian porn at home.

 

[Belserion]

I know a decent amount of sharia law they aren't allowed to break into people's home in hopes of finding that. It's only legitimate if four witnesses see it in a public sphere.

And they don't specifically discriminate on homosexuality but are against adultery period. As for the punishablility of it again it's only punishable if public intercourse is seen.

So what these countries do can't really be classified as sharia law. Also homosexuality has only been accepted in the past couple of decades so if you feel these countries are not caught up to you on what you think is right than you have to open up rational discussion because simple bashing won't get you no where.

Sagebee. Read my thread again.
I no where said anything about the country and it's old fashioned law. I respect law. I questioned their choice of Action.

I don't think you can cure gay people with brute force.

 

[Kendrick Is God]

Narutobase members when they see a thread about Islam

Spoiler

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[Sagebee]

Sagebee. Read my thread again.
I no where said anything about the country and it's old fashioned law. I respect law. I questioned their choice of Action.

I don't think you can cure gay people with brute force.

Well there not trying to cure it but punish it. And what's punished is the public action not how you internally feel about yourself. And like I said changes of heart won't occur if rational dialogue doesn't occur just by the fact of you finding it wrong won't do anything. But the social conscious of a society has to be addressed.

 

[wanderingcactus]

on the plus side, gay people with a masochist fetish will have a fun time at public lashings

 

[Sagebee]

on the plus side, gay people with a masochist fetish will have a fun time at public lashings

Would they also be exhibitionists:wut:

 

[Sirius Black]

Are you talking about the hijab?
That's not entirely banned here it's just because of the on -going terror attacks that stereotypes of Islamic people are frightening some people. While it's silly and somewhat stupid there is a reason to it.

It actually got banned in France because it affacted their people. But I don't really see how two same *** couples are affacting your life.

And I'm SURE AS HELL that some people in the crowd loved to see the two guys getting abused, but still watch their favorite lesbian porn at home.

That's hipocrisy. Hijab affects people's lives only as much as two gays. In both cases laws are wrong. They should make their security better not force women to stop covering their faces because that is easy. Still you're just dragging this conversation. i made my point in first reply, yes what happened to them was wrong but they knew the consequences and they chose to do it anyway.Secondly if hijab affects the life of people then in the case you reported these two guys were reported by their neighbors. So they might be affecting their neighbors life. I have nothing more to say and you have no point except it is wrong which I said all along that yes it is wrong but, it is the law and whether they liked it or not as the citizens of the state, they had to follow the law. they failed to oblige and got punished for it.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Why was I brought up in an Islamic household? Seriously.

 

[LustyLover]

This is what happens when radical theologies gain majority. Sanity and logic get thrown out the window for their sky daddy, sad.

Reminds me of when two gay girls were thrown in jail just for kissing, exposed by their parents no less.

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[Lyke]

here it is ~
muslims should wake up before their own Religion gets turned into fully radical shit and forgot what their own holy book taught them

Spoiler

Justification for Hadith in Quran: While there is no direct commandment in Quran to create a set of books to add to Gods laws, the Quran does in many places say: "Obey God and his messenger." To me this does not mean obey God and Bukhari. Bukhari was not a messenger and Prophet Muhammad did not write or compile the Hadith. The Hadith were compiled 250+ years after the death of Muhammad. He didn't follow Bukhari, only Quran. They weren't authorized by God or Prophet Muhammad. Let's look at these verses to see what God means by "obey the messenger":

[5:92] Obey God and obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away then know that the SOLE DUTY of the messenger is to deliver the message clearly.

[64:12] Obey God and obey the messenger. If you turn away, then it is only required of Our messenger to deliver clearly.

So it is clear from these verses that: 1. We must obey the messenger. 2. The messengers sole duty is to deliver the message.

1+2= Obey the message that the messenger delivered. That message can only be Quran.

Muslims have taken "Obey the messenger" to mean eat dates because the prophet liked dates and to brush your teeth with miswak and ride a camel because the Prophet did. How does this have anything to do with worshipping God?

The other verse often used to justify the creation of Hadith is 59:7. But this verse is about distribution of wealth and spoils of war and has nothing to do with adding new religious laws.

Ok let's look at evidence in Quran AGAINST adding Hadith books or any other source to the word of God:

[6:114] "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?" Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

[6:115] The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[6:116] If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Is Hadith not conjecture and guessing?

[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

[77:50] So in what hadith after this will they believe?

[17:73] They nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!

[53:23] These are but names/attributes that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and wishful thinking, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.

[16:89] The day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. We have sent down to you the book as a clarification for all things, a guide, mercy and good tidings for those who have peacefully surrendered.

[45:6] These are God's signs that We recite to you with truth. Then in what hadith after God and his verses will they believe?

[31:6] Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.

So the evidence against Hadith in Quran is there, whether the scholars like it or not. What about Sunnah you may ask. Yes the word "Sunnah" is used in the Quran a few times. But never used for the Sunnah of Muhammad. Only the Sunnah of God. Here's an example:

[33:62] This is God's Sunnah with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's Sunnah.

I am leaving the words Hadith and Sunnah in Arabic to make a point. But you can go look up the verses. They are in there. Another verse used to justify Hadith and Sunnah is this one:

[2:231] ....Do not take God's signs lightly; remember God's blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of AL KITAAB (the book) and AL HIKMAH (the wisdom), He warns you with it. Be conscientious of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.

But as you can see the word Sunnah is not used here. The word Hikmah is used. Hikmah means wisdom, not Sunnah. This has nothing to do with following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.

If you're with me so far, you're probably wondering... Ok, but how can you pray Salat without Hadith? My question to you is: How do you pray Salat WITH Hadith? I've never met one person who learned Salat by opening a Hadith book. And go ahead and try. Show me one Hadith which tells you step by step, start to finish, how to pray Salat. And there are plenty of Hadith on Salat but they're unclear and contradictory. That's why so many people pray so many different ways. Personally I learned when my uncle taught me, not from opening Bukhari. How did you learn?

So what does Quran say about Salat? There are five things that entail Quranic Salat. I can find the verses later if you're interested. It's all in Quran: 1. To do Wudu first (ablution) 2. To face the Qibla 3. To commemorate God alone 4. To recite from Quran 5. To stand, bow and prostrate

Anything else that God didn't mention, is not important. As crazy as it may sound, how many raka you do, how your toe is curled, how your hands are positioned doesn't matter to God from what I can see through Quran. All that matters is that we worship him. Our intention and sincerity matter. The details are for those who want to show everyone "I'm more Islamic than you."

Lastly, I'll say study history. You will find many answers. What Muslim scholars have done to Quran is the exact same thing the Jewish pharisees did to the Torah. They added the Talmud, oral Torah and changed Gods laws and added to his words. Same thing with Hadith. Are we allowed to do this?

[10:59] Say, "Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you made some of it forbidden and some lawful?" Say, "Did God authorize you, or did you invent lies against God?"

[16:116] You shall not invent lies about God by attributing lies with your tongues, saying: "This is lawful and that is forbidden." Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.

As for the "science" of Hadith. It's absurd to me that there needs to be a SCIENCE of Hadith. Humans don't sit around, make a science out of Gods law and decide what is from God and what is not. We humans don't have that right and are overstepping our bounds and making a mockery of Gods word if we do that. A bunch of HUMAN scholars sitting around and deciding what is "Sahih" and part of Islam and what is not, is not one bit different from a bunch of Romans & Christians taking a vote on what gospels will and won't be included in the New Testament Bible at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD.

Good thing is that muslimic countries only recognize parts of sharia law, and other muslimic countries dont recognize it at all, besides probably the ISIS territory. If it was recognized fully I don't wanna know what would happen tbh

 

[Sagebee]

Why was I brought up in an Islamic household? Seriously.

Because bunnies live to prostrate:lol

 

[Mori Jin]

That's on them, in this case it was the law of the land and they broke It. They knew what the punishments were, you break the law in any country you face the consequences, I wouldn't have made it public though. But if the act was commited in the privacy of their homes then no-one has the right to break in to their home and punish them for it. Punishment only comes to those that commit the act in public view of everyone. Four witnesses are also needed, otherwise it gets thrown out of court (figuratively speaking).

Edit: Some Nitpicking going on here so i'll just say this, some laws are crazy some are not.

 

[Oblivionx]

Well a law is a law. If people don't like it, they should change it through democracy. If majority is okay with laws then minority should follow as well. World ain't a wish granting factory. Everyone's wishes cannot be fulfilled. As for punishing publicly, it's so that people would learn a lesson from it. Also in Islam, some people should be there to see punishment for testimony.

 

[Belserion]

Well there not trying to cure it but punish it. And what's punished is the public action not how you internally feel about yourself. And like I said changes of heart won't occur if rational dialogue doesn't occur just by the fact of you finding it wrong won't do anything. But the social conscious of a society has to be addressed.

It's still making no sense. Why punish "sick" people? Homosexuality is a disease in their Eyes so why not cure them instead of punish them? You don't see cancer patients getting the shit out of them beaten just because they are sick.

on the plus side, gay people with a masochist fetish will have a fun time at public lashings

You nasty. +rep

Why was I brought up in an Islamic household? Seriously.

You don't choose your family...

This is what happens when radical theologies gain majority. Sanity and logic get thrown out the window for their sky daddy, sad.

Reminds me of when two gay girls were thrown in jail just for kissing, exposed by their parents no less.

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Oh seriously -_- Poor girls. Love shouldnt be a crime

 

[Im Still Robin]

Hot thread incoming

OT: Yeah, pretty shitty to do it public

Dat avi tho

OT:

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