Serious Scientific ??? Re: Genetics and Homosexuality.(serious responses only plz)

[avenged sevenfold]

EXACTLY

We are not forgetting, but thanks for the reminder!

Exactly. This is also psychologically speaking the same subject though...It is easy for people to accept laws as being the truth or just thing do to if the subject matter is beyond their comprehension. but it is still following a blind person...LOL


EXACTLY...this is also why same *** marriage is such a heated subject...I say if you are willing to take "care" of an individual for the rest of your life then you should get tax deductions for it, the fact of biological procreation has nothing to do with it, or "proper" upbringing issues with same *** households...all the major issues that people have with same *** marriages really have nothing to do with the issue of marriage rights at all..
...Most of the people who are actively engaging in this thread would not keep the "gays" from running free anyway, I am just tired of people using science or anything for that matter to justify something they don't understand...answer truthfully and move on..you don't know why you are gay leave it at that,instead of saying its a genetic thing or that you were born this way .. all of us are born alone and die alone (even in a room full of people,even if some dies or is born at the same time, you still do it alone. the only exception would be Siamese twins and that is still pushing it honestly ( yet people still try to justify something they can't explain with some large "deity"/"gov"etc, as being the justified reason for something and the ignorant masses accept it as the reason when in truth there probably isn't a single reason...the most powerful phrase of 4 words is "I do not know."
believe it or not its is just as acceptable as anything else...you do not need a reason to be anything confidentially speaking...
News paper articles about the problems of acceptance for multi-cultural parents and the over use of the genetic reason for being gay when there is no proof of it being a genetic thing...


I will re-iterate ladies and gentleman I am not interested in the origins of homosexuality unless some one can provide proof of it. I am interested in helping people to understand themselves and to help the world learn to stop making excuses for things they do not understand for a false acceptance, true acceptance is only achieved through understanding.. that means learning and knowing about how things work so that you can then properly identify them and move on to the next unknown. when an item,idea,etc can not be "cleanly" placed into a category, then a new category is needed..it is the dynamic of growth that we are working with here...as that comes also from understanding ( not all tailed beast are the same creature...(psychological schema reference))..

Do you understand why people are gay or bisexual or straight because to be fair a lot of people are being ignorant and are needing to understand these kind of things. Also it would be nice to see more professional people posting on things like this. I quite like you; plus rep

 

[Typhon]

Hello NB users,

Let me start off by saying that I am in no way shape or form disrespecting or "passing judgement" on the sexuality of any one, what you like and who you do is really none of my business or my concern.
I am however, in a state of confusion as to how the justification of genetics works in this case. I do understand a lot about science and genetics and personal choices and the feeling of un-acceptance. I do not see how the issue of "sexuality"(the preference of gender in a mate or life-partner) has anything to do with genetics or heredity especially when used as an explanation for sexual prefernce (which is often the case now-a-days, as people use the "born this way" reasoning). I am also not saying that it is not present from/at birth.

The reason I say this is, according to genetics, or more specifically hereditary genetics and/or traits, states that hereditary genes are passed from parent to offspring and in the case of atavism, it can skip generations. Now, understanding that should mean, that if homosexuality is genetic then there should be previous examples of that trait or gene present in the homosexual's ancestry ( ie: if your homosexual then some where in your ancestry, there should be a homosexual predecessor).

Now I am aware that the problem that immediately arises, is a homosexual ancestor that doesn't show such behavior. Also that throughout time there have been societies that allowed and/or accepted that behavior. so the fact that your grandma or grand dad did not "come out of the closet" has been taken into perspective. That still doesn't totally justify the thought, as science has broken the genome pairing of almost all the creatures on this planet humans included.

So basically if homosexuality is genetic then why hasn't the "homosexual" gene been identified especially when you can see evidence of homosexual coupling in other species on this planet? Also in regards to the genome understanding we can now see how life has evolved from one form to another in the "life" of this planet.

Any way I know that I am not speaking to the top of their field geneticists here but I figured the subject matter would be handled a little better here then just randomly posted on the web. If I receive enough interest in this matter then I may take to a larger platform in the web, who knows I may take it to the press or something. I had to start somewhere.
Anyway what are your thoughts on the genetic position in this case NB users?

The problem is you've simplified genetics too much in your thinking. Genes are not always set in stone. Environmental factors often influence the way our genes are expressed and during our life genes can often be turned on and off. Also, genetic success isn't always determined by an individual directly passing on its genes to its own personal offspring. There are things like inclusive fitness and group selection which can make it more beneficial for two close relatives to have offspring than for that one individual to have offspring.

I just read the first page of this paper and it seems to do a good job of explaining things, albeit in a lot of scientific language which if you're unfamiliar with may be difficult to understand:

You must be registered for see links

The kinaltruism mechanism assumes that homosexuals assist their
close relatives, thereby increasing their own inclusive
fitness

The former mechanism assumes
that genes inducing homosexuality provide superior
fitness in heterozygous conditions, for example, men
may have higher success in attracting women and/or their sperm may have
a competitive advantage over that of other men

A third
mechanism, which was briefly mentioned by Hammer &
Copeland (1994; see also McKnight 1997; Pillard &
Bailey 1998) but that has never been rigorously explored
previously, is a sexually antagonistic selection (e.g. Rice
1984; Rice & Holland 1997; Arnqvist & Rowe 2005)
under which alleles that decrease fitness of one *** are
maintained in the population because they increase the
fitness of the other ***. The potential importance of this
mechanism is highlighted by recent data which indicate
that female maternal relatives of homosexuals (CamperioCianiet al. 2004) or relatives of gay men for both maternal
and paternal lines (King et al. 2005) have increased
fecundity.

 

[King Of Crows]

EXACTLY

I will re-iterate ladies and gentleman I am not interested in the origins of homosexuality unless some one can provide proof of it. I am interested in helping people to understand themselves and to help the world learn to stop making excuses for things they do not understand for a false acceptance, true acceptance is only achieved through understanding.. that means learning and knowing about how things work so that you can then properly identify them and move on to the next unknown. when an item,idea,etc can not be "cleanly" placed into a category, then a new category is needed..it is the dynamic of growth that we are working with here...as that comes also from understanding ( not all tailed beast are the same creature...(psychological schema reference))..

I'm quite confused here. On one hand you sometimes seem to be against the idea of a genome but at the same time you talk about how good learning and knowing things can be. I'm just an incy bit lost.

Thinking there is a genome for homosexuality does not mean that the gays aren't free because we wish to identify certain things. It is like scientific curiosity. If there is a genome, cool ! If not, who cares lets move on to something else. Which is why gay people in general do not take offence in the slightest to the theory of there being a gay genome, because they know that it wouldn't affect them in the slightest were it to be discovered. ( I've not heard of one being against it at least )

 

[avenged sevenfold]

I'm quite confused here. On one hand you sometimes seem to be against the idea of a genome but at the same time you talk about how good learning and knowing things can be. I'm just an incy bit lost.

Thinking there is a genome for homosexuality does not mean that the gays aren't free because we wish to identify certain things. It is like scientific curiosity. If there is a genome, cool ! If not, who cares lets move on to something else. Which is why gay people in general do not take offence in the slightest to the theory of there being a gay genome, because they know that it wouldn't affect them in the slightest were it to be discovered. ( I've not heard of one being against it at least )

This basically. At least someone has some decency within them

 

[King Of Crows]

This basically. At least someone has some decency within them

Ahhhh, you are too kind ! :yayy:

 

[avenged sevenfold]

Ahhhh, you are too kind ! :yayy:

Haha don't worry about it its all cool. xd

 

[YourOwnInability]

Do you understand why people are gay or bisexual or straight because to be fair a lot of people are being ignorant and are needing to understand these kind of things. Also it would be nice to see more professional people posting on things like this. I quite like you; plus rep

If you are asking whether or not I understand "what it means to be gay"
then I would say no as I am not. if you are asking do I understand homosexuality, then I would say yes, as I have a lot of homosexual friends and I am well educated in biology..further more.
IF you are trying to ascertain my feelings on the subject go read the opening post.

Bottom line telling some one the reason that an individual is gay is because they were born that way is just as ignorant as saying that people of another race are "colored" differently because "God" bought the variety pack of crayons to use when making them...it is just ignorance...period
I was looking for insight in the scientific sector and was only interested in proof if anyone knew of it, as it would help to explain why giving a reason just to have a reason isn't scientifically viable..and there fore shouldn't be used especially when telling someone "I DO NOT KNOW" will suffice just as well..

P.S. for those who would say that it doesn't work that way as people will badger you for a reason... tell them you don't know and if they are really that interested in knowing to RESEARCH it themselves, and you will see how "quickly" they walk away accepting your answer.... as what is at the heart of the matter is not their need to know or understand but their desire to have things "spoon-fed" to them and to support their own laziness...

I'm quite confused here. On one hand you sometimes seem to be against the idea of a genome but at the same time you talk about how good learning and knowing things can be. I'm just an incy bit lost.

Thinking there is a genome for homosexuality does not mean that the gays aren't free because we wish to identify certain things. It is like scientific curiosity. If there is a genome, cool ! If not, who cares lets move on to something else. Which is why gay people in general do not take offence in the slightest to the theory of there being a gay genome, because they know that it wouldn't affect them in the slightest were it to be discovered. ( I've not heard of one being against it at least )

All in all it is really not about homosexuality , it is more about people using science as an explanation to the reason for something when there is no proof that it is the reason why..to put it as simply as I can..

 

[King Of Crows]

All in all it is really not about homosexuality , it is more about people using science as an explanation to the reason for something when there is no proof that it is the reason why..to put it as simply as I can..

Thanks for clarifying !

 

[YourOwnInability]

The problem is you've simplified genetics too much in your thinking. Genes are not always set in stone. Environmental factors often influence the way our genes are expressed and during our life genes can often be turned on and off. Also, genetic success isn't always determined by an individual directly passing on its genes to its own personal offspring. There are things like inclusive fitness and group selection which can make it more beneficial for two close relatives to have offspring than for that one individual to have offspring.

I just read the first page of this paper and it seems to do a good job of explaining things, albeit in a lot of scientific language which if you're unfamiliar with may be difficult to understand:

You must be registered for see links

Thank you for the post I will read this immediately , and you are right for the most part I did simplify genetics for the discussion's sake



P.S. THANK YOU FOR THE FEED BACK GUYS I AM SEEING WHAT I WANTED AS FAR AS PARTICIPATION BUT I THINK WE COULD USE MORE SO TELL YOUR FREINDS AND PEOPLE ON THE BASE TO ADD THEIR VOICE SO FAR I AM REALLY CONSIDERING PUSHING THIS THROUGH THE REST OF THE WEB WORLD AND MAYBE INTO THE REAL WORLD

 

[6thpathsage]

Evolutionarily speaking, if homosexuality was solely a genetic trait, scientists would expect the trait to eventually disappear because homosexuals wouldn't be expected to reproduce."

Everyone has a right to do what they want/believe but the whole idea of genetic involvement is invalidated because of this guys post and the OPs counter about overpopulation does not make sense.

Why do homosexuals have to prove themselves after being liberated ( I see these arguments occuring a lot). Its like a black person posting proof on how black people are on the same genetic level as white people. Dont feel the need justify yourselves because nobody can lastingly validate you but yourself.

 

[King Of Crows]

Everyone has a right to do what they want/believe but the whole idea of genetic involvement is invalidated because of this guys post and the OPs counter about overpopulation does not make sense.

Why do homosexuals have to prove themselves after being liberated ( I see these arguments occuring a lot). Its like a black person posting proof on how black people are on the same genetic level as white people. Dont feel the need justify yourselves because nobody can lastingly validate you but yourself.

You make it sound as if the homosexuals are carrying out this scientific research ...

 

[6thpathsage]

You make it sound as if the homosexuals are carrying out this scientific research ...

They aren't but they are reporting it and using it as a sort of unwarranted defense of who they are.

 

[King Of Crows]

They aren't but they are reporting it and using it as a sort of unwarranted defense of who they are.

What do you expect ? Wouldn't you defend who you are if some ignorant individual came along and says that sexual orientation is a choice?

 

[6thpathsage]

What do you expect ? Wouldn't you defend who you are if some ignorant individual came along and says that sexual orientation is a choice?

If it did happen, why are you listening to a homophobe. If a racist tells me that im inferior because im black I will NOT even listen to him because I am self assured and I know im not. I wont get data proving im just as genetically human as he is.

 

[YourOwnInability]

Everyone has a right to do what they want/believe but the whole idea of genetic involvement is invalidated because of this guys post and the OPs counter about overpopulation does not make sense.

Why do homosexuals have to prove themselves after being liberated ( I see these arguments occuring a lot). Its like a black person posting proof on how black people are on the same genetic level as white people. Dont feel the need justify yourselves because nobody can lastingly validate you but yourself.

You make it sound as if the homosexuals are carrying out this scientific research ...

They aren't but they are reporting it and using it as a sort of unwarranted defense of who they are.

What do you expect ? Wouldn't you defend who you are if some ignorant individual came along and says that sexual orientation is a choice?

If it did happen, why are you listening to a homophobe. If a racist tells me that im inferior because im black I will NOT even listen to him because I am self assured and I know im not. I wont get data proving im just as genetically human as he is.

Now this is more like it people THIS IS THE HEART OF THIS THREAD ...THIS DEBATE THESE TWO ARE HAVING IS THE POINT OF MY THREAD.

Thank you for your post 6thpathsage and XxItachi x!!!!

This is exactly what I am talking about. What they are debating over is whether or not it is OK to justify something with science even if there is no proof to support it

Although just to 6thpathsage I am not interested in proving equality as I know all humans are equal regardless of race,sexual preference ,etc...
I am applauding you two for reaching the point of the matter... sage you point it out well, only you can validate yourself ..for the most part( as human as a species are approval junkies (revolver anyone??)))


how ever knowing the reason for existence does help one to keep themselves grounded.

A previous post on this thread stated how knowing that, there is/isn't a"gay-gene" would not deter or help homosexual individuals is a matter of perspective, as there was an individual in here that was talking about someone being, who didn't want to be... I would say this information (about a gay-gene) would help them some what. As it would in way of helping people know/understand why they developed cancer (not comparing the two just using it as a reference point)..

 

[Sanguis]

Most people who try to prove a point (gay is genetic) become a little too close minded. It might be because there not too good at thinking outside of the box, or just too obsessed in finding a positive answer, I am going to go with the latter.

The answer is right in a way, being gay is genetic and it is present in the whole human race. However, there is no evidence of a direct link to homosexuality (aka no gay gene). There are a bunch of weird phenomenons that come up, being gay is not just the only one:

• left handed
• Dyslexia
• IQ
• dedication
• laziness

etc,

Well most of what I listed could be agreed that these are just things that either develop over time or as a fetus. However, it can also be argued that these are genetic and because of a set of genes it causes these weird phenomenons to happen. Although true it is not a very bold answer to make because of how simple and widened the answer is.

So in conclusion I would rather say homosexuality is an experience gained rather than a genetic trait.

 

[YourOwnInability]

Most people who try to prove a point (gay is genetic) become a little too close minded. It might be because there not too good at thinking outside of the box, or just too obsessed in finding a positive answer, I am going to go with the latter.

The answer is right in a way, being gay is genetic and it is present in the whole human race. However, there is no evidence of a direct link to homosexuality (aka no gay gene). There are a bunch a weird phenomenons that come up, being gay is not just the only one:

• left handed
• Dyslexia
• IQ
• dedication
• laziness

etc,

Well most of what I listed could be agreed that these are just things that either develop over time or as a fetus. However, it can also be argued that these are genetic and because of a set of genes it causes these weird phenomenons to happen. Although true it is not a very bold answer to make because of how simple and widened the answer is.

So in conclusion I would rather say homosexuality is an experience gained rather than a genetic trait.

I like your answer. you get a point for it!

to the bold part : is this addressed to me or just part of the statement?

 

[Sanguis]

I like your answer. you get a point for it!

to the bold part : is this addressed to me or just part of the statement?

No it is just part of the statement. I am sorry if the wording or the grammar is a little off or confusing I am quite tired and don't have the capacity to see the quality of it, I will try and sort it later.

ps thanks for the rep.

 

[YourOwnInability]

No it is just part of the statement. I am sorry if the wording or the grammar is a little off or confusing I am quite tired and don't have the capacity to see the quality of it, I will try and sort it later.

ps thanks for the rep.

No worries I am a very curious person by nature and I do enjoy science a great deal..So I wasn't offended I was just wandering about the insight involved in your response...
and N.P. with the rep I usually rep most people who hold their own in a conversation..even if we don't agree on the views (not saying you do or don't or that we do or don't,lol)

 

[ROSH2]

Homosexuality mental illness