Sensing: Hashirama and Tobirama

[Shadow Phantasm]

Tobirama is the better sensor of the two since he's able to sense people just by touching a surface.

 

[Voidstep]

Minato is not even a sensor. Hashirama most likely sensed it because they were his cells.

nah bro
Minato haz the sensing skillz too
and he even uses the same finger tech that Tobirama uses
that tech is most likely useless for someone with no sensing ability

also with Kurama
he has the extra evil intentions sensing

 

[Bogard]

Minato is not even a sensor. Hashirama most likely sensed it because they were his cells.

Stop saying this bs everywhere bro. We both know Minato is the greatest sensor in this manga U_U

- Able to know a place far away from his location is safe to teleport a village size Tbb
- Able to identify chakra typs for his chakra transferring technique(Naruto)
- Use the same finger sensing jutsu as Tobirama(another noticeable sensor) to identify the number of hiding opponents(funny thing is that they identify the same 20opponents numbers Lol)
- Upon his revival, only person capable to sense chakra countries away and identify the exact location besides Tobirama(in 2o'clock direction)
- Only one capable to identify Naruto and Kyubi's chakra(Tobirama sensed but couldn't identify since he said "A" powerful chakra despite knowing the beast personally for diverse reasons) to the point he is capable to know their personal relationship(both fighting together)
- Able to identify the one above the Juubi as the masked guy he previously fought without looking at his face(he noticed it was Obito only after teleporting)

Minato is a sensor typ, even greater than those Senju bros U_U

Before talking about Sasuke's group(since you will), let me tell you that Sasuke's group didn't "sense" Kyubi's chakra. The appropriate world is "feeling" it. They felt it through their skin. And there is only one person with Kyubi's chakra that mostly know(Naruto). It's not the first time in the manga where people are
capable to feel Kyubi's chakra(Kakashi against Zabuza was aware of the fact Naruto was going downhill by feeling Kyubi's chakra, same can be said during the nine tails attack). It's because the chakra is so powerful and aweful that it's physically noticeable. It doesn't mean however that they are capable to "sense" it, because "sensing" a chakra doesn't only mean noticing it, but also noticing the position or source where said chakra come from, something they were uncapable to do

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Tobirama couldn't recognise Kyubi's signature chakra from that distance when Minato could. Hashirama's sensing ability is terribly lacking(confirmed in the fb by Tobirama). So Minato > Senju bros in sensing skills. Nuff said U_U

The reason Minato could sense the Kyuubi's chakra is because he had the Yin half inside of him.The same thing happened when Naruto since the Gold and Silver brothers from the Turtle Island.

 

[Dantee]

Stop saying this bs everywhere bro. We both know Minato is the greatest sensor in this manga U_U

- Able to know a place far away from his location is safe to teleport a village size Tbb
- Able to identify chakra typs for his chakra transferring technique(Naruto)
- Use the same finger sensing jutsu as Tobirama(another noticeable sensor) to identify the number of hiding opponents(funny thing is that they identify the same 20opponents numbers Lol)
- Upon his revival, only person capable to sense chakra countries away and identify the exact location besides Tobirama(in 2o'clock direction)
- Only one capable to identify Naruto and Kyubi's chakra(Tobirama sensed but couldn't identify since he said "A" powerful chakra despite knowing the beast personally for diverse reasons) to the point he is capable to know their personal relationship(both fighting together)
- Able to identify the one above the Juubi as the masked guy he previously fought without looking at his face(he noticed it was Obito only after teleporting)

Minato is a sensor typ, even greater than those Senju bros U_U

Before talking about Sasuke's group(since you will), let me tell you that Sasuke's group didn't "sense" Kyubi's chakra. The appropriate world is "feeling" it. They felt it through their skin. And there is only one person with Kyubi's chakra that mostly know(Naruto). It's not the first time in the manga where people are
capable to feel Kyubi's chakra(Kakashi against Zabuza was aware of the fact Naruto was going downhill by feeling Kyubi's chakra, same can be said during the nine tails attack). It's because the chakra is so powerful and aweful that it's physically noticeable. It doesn't mean however that they are capable to "sense" it, because "sensing" a chakra doesn't only mean noticing it, but also noticing the position or source where said chakra come from, something they were uncapable to do

How is Sasukes group recognizing the chakra any different from how Minato recognized it. Sasuke knew it was NAruto lol just how Minato knew it was him. Minato didn't point out any direction, like you said they all could feel it. As for the finger thing the proper word is tracking not sensing.

Teleporting a TBB with his ftg seal is not sensing. He knew where to teleport it because he's the one who placed a seal there.

Able to identify chakra types with direct contact xd.

Obito had the ftg mark on him.

 

[Draphsin]

There is no difference

Tobirama is simply a better sensor than hashi, why make it more complicated than it is..

 

[tazze019]

Base on feats, Tobirama is a better sensor than his brother.

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

Highly false, someone who is a keener is not a better sensor in quality in NARUTO. Quality in sensing in Naruto has to do with Range and being able to sense the details in that person. That is quality. Being keen in sensing has to do with your mind being sharp.... So yes I can compare those 2.


No you were making a implication.. and you yourself know that. I simply addressed the implication, before it got further. And "he didn't bother sensing him"... well we can use this excuse for every unkeen person in the series.. The thing is he should've been able to. Notice how he says " Now that I sense better".. Tobirama is a elite sensor... he should've been able to sense Hashirama's chakra.. lmao. THAT IS WHY HASHIRAMA CALLED TOBIRAMA "DULL". Simply meaning Hashirama was quick/Sharp to sense it.

Now you compared Range.... Tobirama is a better sensor because he has range in sensing.. Hashirama has shown he doesn't.

Actually we do know when Hashirama sensed it.. He sensed it when Orochimaru's chakra started to flow through him, just like it did with Tobirama/Hiruzen/Minato. Otherwise he wouldn't call Tobirama dull...... please try to understand that. Unless you can provide evidence he sensed it before. =]. And who said Hashirama was focused on just sensing Orochimaru? lmao.


That is his ability. If me and you are sitting in a room, having a normal discussion, if someone is outside the door, and i sense him... that means i'm more keen. However, when you focus on it.. you are able to sense a army.. meaning you are better at sensing... That is the difference between Hashirama and Tobirama.


As I've said you do not understand what Keen is.. Sir Chaos does....

@ The underlined: Are your small jests necessarily. I'm trying to have a simple civil debate.

For the bold I will address as numerical points from too to bottom.

1. Where is this defined in Naruto. Unless you can verify this, you are creating arbitrary assumptions based on no solid ground other than your own opinion. As such, they do not stand on credible ground regarding canon comparisons of sensing.

2. To be blunt, I know what I say better than you know what I say. When I say I didn't make an implication I mean that. I said that the fact that he's sensing his own DNA must be considered as a plausible factor. This doesn't imply that this is the only reason he sensed it, it doesn't imply there's any connection between sensing ones on DNA. It simply brings a position that must be debated over and concluded by mass opinion.

3. I reply under the assumption this regards to Tobirama sensing the Kinkaku force... I do not compare just range. I compare range, quality, quantity, and situation.

A) Range- Tobirama sensed at a superior range.

B) Quality- Tobirama could pick up their National identity, and even a specific unit within that nation.

C) Quantity- Tobirama could sense the number: 20

D) Situation- he could do so after fighting and being under the pressures of time, and the risk of his comrades' lives.

I wager this is a feat of Keen sensing due to the quality and mental analysis of what was sensed.

4. Provide the scan that shows Hashirama is clearly sensing it or when he reveals he sensed it. As you seem to imply, it is when he stops Tobirama's movement. And what is Tobirama fixated on at such a time: Stopping Madara, escaping this room, and trying to move when stopped.

Comparatively what is Hashirama doing? Staring at Sasuke, Orochimaru, Juugo, and Suigetsu with the intention of speaking with Sasuke.

His focus would be on Orochimaru. As such, when Tobirama stopped moving, basic sensing would allow him to see the person he's calmly observing has his DNA (simply by seeing the chakra happens to be his own... Not that it's the only reason he senses it).

As such, your argument for Keennnes falls closer to being at an advantageous situation in regards to preparing to sense Orochimaru.

5. No one said that was all Hashirama was doing; however, it is clear he was simply standing there where the other sibling was occupied with other things. He clearly had the intention of speaking with Sasuke so that proves he did more than sense Orochimaru the whole time.

I'm sorry, but based on the definition of keen and better I already find it hard to even argue them when they honestly do not compare by definition. It only leads to who's a better sensor, and that's Tobirama.

 

[Bogard]

How is Sasukes group recognizing the chakra any different from how Minato recognized it.

Main differences between Sasuke's group and Minato

1- To sense chakra you need to kneed chakra first. It's confirmed by Tobirama that when sensors don't kneed chakra, they can't sense it

2- Sasuke were obviously not kneeding chakra during their march to Konoha and so on. So they weren't sensing it obviously. They didn't even voluntarily felt the chakra in question. It was only so powerful not to be felt(Suigetsu was even wondering what was going on)

3- When Kages were revived on the other hand, no one noticed a thing, which means Kyubi's chakra wasn't felt in their location. Only when Orochimaru talked them about the war that wanting to know exactly what was happening, sensors(Tobirama and Minato) started kneeding chakra to sense what is going on. You can notice Minato bottom left panel here

Spoiler

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4- Like i've said sensors are capable to notice the source of the chakra, what Minato did, only that he mentioned nothing. Tobirama was the one talking about a chakra source at 2o'clock direction, but Minato directly stated it was Naruto and Kyubi's chakra he was referring to, which means he did pinpointed the same chakra source Tobirama was talking about in that location

Spoiler

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As for the finger thing the proper word is tracking not sensing.

I do believe it's a sensing ability, not a tracking ability. Tobirama and Minato both sensors are the only one who have shown to proceed this way. I believe that by puting their fingers on the ground, it allows them to refine their sensing skills all around the battlefield

Teleporting a TBB with his ftg seal is not sensing. He knew where to teleport it because he's the one who placed a seal there.

Not really. We're on earth. People travel everyday. It's not as if Minato would know people won't be going in the location he could have left a marking. To know who is there, he must have sensed it

Able to identify chakra types with direct contact xd.

Source? Since when is it even possible?

Obito had the ftg mark on him.

I thought it was already clear that Minato can't sense people who have their marks from the moment he never realised the mark disappeared long time ago on Jubito only when he tried to teleport on it?

 

[Dantee]

Main differences between Sasuke's group and Minato

1- To sense chakra you need to kneed chakra first. It's confirmed by Tobirama that when sensors don't kneed chakra, they can't sense it

2- Sasuke were obviously not kneeding chakra during their march to Konoha and so on. So they weren't sensing it obviously. They didn't even voluntarily felt the chakra in question. It was only so powerful not to be felt(Suigetsu was even wondering what was going on)

3- When Kages were revived on the other hand, no one noticed a thing, which means Kyubi's chakra wasn't felt in their location. Only when Orochimaru talked them about the war that wanting to know exactly what was happening, sensors(Tobirama and Minato) started kneeding chakra to sense what is going on. You can notice Minato bottom left panel here

Spoiler

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4- Like i've said sensors are capable to notice the source of the chakra, what Minato did, only that he mentioned nothing. Tobirama was the one talking about a chakra source at 2o'clock direction, but Minato directly stated it was Naruto and Kyubi's chakra he was referring to, which means he did pinpointed the same chakra source Tobirama was talking about in that location

Spoiler

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I do believe it's a sensing ability, not a tracking ability. Tobirama and Minato both sensors are the only one who have shown to proceed this way. I believe that by puting their fingers on the ground, it allows them to refine their sensing skills all around the battlefield

Not really. We're on earth. People travel everyday. It's not as if Minato would know people won't be going in the location he could have left a marking. To know who is there, he must have sensed it


Source? Since when is it even possible?




I thought it was already clear that Minato can't sense people who have their marks from the moment he never realised the mark disappeared long time ago on Jubito only when he tried to teleport on it?

Okay fine Minato has some sensing abilities.

 

[Bogard]

Okay fine Minato has the best sensing abilities in the manga

Fixed it for you Lol

 

[Dantee]

Fixed it for you Lol

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Fuuu no lol.

 

[Lightbringer]

Fixed it for you Lol

you mean Nagato right? or Karin?

 

[roner]

didn't see who posted this thread..but when I read it ..i automatically know its kinghashirama...nice thread

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Well....considering they were Hashi's cells, I don't think its much of a feat..

 

[Tobby17]

Main differences between Sasuke's group and Minato

1- To sense chakra you need to kneed chakra first. It's confirmed by Tobirama that when sensors don't kneed chakra, they can't sense it

2- Sasuke were obviously not kneeding chakra during their march to Konoha and so on. So they weren't sensing it obviously. They didn't even voluntarily felt the chakra in question. It was only so powerful not to be felt(Suigetsu was even wondering what was going on)

3- When Kages were revived on the other hand, no one noticed a thing, which means Kyubi's chakra wasn't felt in their location. Only when Orochimaru talked them about the war that wanting to know exactly what was happening, sensors(Tobirama and Minato) started kneeding chakra to sense what is going on. You can notice Minato bottom left panel here

Spoiler

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4- Like i've said sensors are capable to notice the source of the chakra, what Minato did, only that he mentioned nothing. Tobirama was the one talking about a chakra source at 2o'clock direction, but Minato directly stated it was Naruto and Kyubi's chakra he was referring to, which means he did pinpointed the same chakra source Tobirama was talking about in that location

Spoiler

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I do believe it's a sensing ability, not a tracking ability. Tobirama and Minato both sensors are the only one who have shown to proceed this way. I believe that by puting their fingers on the ground, it allows them to refine their sensing skills all around the battlefield

Not really. We're on earth. People travel everyday. It's not as if Minato would know people won't be going in the location he could have left a marking. To know who is there, he must have sensed it


Source? Since when is it even possible?

I thought it was already clear that Minato can't sense people who have their marks from the moment he never realised the mark disappeared long time ago on Jubito only when he tried to teleport on it?

uhm, Minato had fought Kurama b4, and even has the other half in him, so it's only normal he could tell that was the Kyuubi, just like how Tobirama could tell Madara's Chakra, and Minato couldn't??.. So how can you say Minato is better at sensing than Tobirama??. Everything sensing feat Minato has, Tobirama has even better. Ok Tobirama can tell what clan you are from solely based on ur Chakra, can Minato do that?

 

[KingHashirama]

Tobirama couldn't recognise Kyubi's signature chakra from that distance when Minato could. Hashirama's sensing ability is terribly lacking(confirmed in the fb by Tobirama). So Minato > Senju bros in sensing skills. Nuff said U_U

Minato couldn't sense Madara's. And again read the OT.... what part of "TOBIRAMA is better" do you guys not understand?

 

[Draphsin]

Minato couldn't sense Madara's. And again read the OT.... what part of "TOBIRAMA is better" do you guys not understand?

I just dont see why you have to classify them as two different types, why not make it simple & say that hashi has a weaker version, rather than a different version?

 

[KingHashirama]

@ The underlined: Are your small jests necessarily. I'm trying to have a simple civil debate.

For the bold I will address as numerical points from too to bottom.

1. Where is this defined in Naruto. Unless you can verify this, you are creating arbitrary assumptions based on no solid ground other than your own opinion. As such, they do not stand on credible ground regarding canon comparisons of sensing.

2. To be blunt, I know what I say better than you know what I say. When I say I didn't make an implication I mean that. I said that the fact that he's sensing his own DNA must be considered as a plausible factor. This doesn't imply that this is the only reason he sensed it, it doesn't imply there's any connection between sensing ones on DNA. It simply brings a position that must be debated over and concluded by mass opinion.

3. I reply under the assumption this regards to Tobirama sensing the Kinkaku force... I do not compare just range. I compare range, quality, quantity, and situation.

A) Range- Tobirama sensed at a superior range.

B) Quality- Tobirama could pick up their National identity, and even a specific unit within that nation.

C) Quantity- Tobirama could sense the number: 20

D) Situation- he could do so after fighting and being under the pressures of time, and the risk of his comrades' lives.

I wager this is a feat of Keen sensing due to the quality and mental analysis of what was sensed.

4. Provide the scan that shows Hashirama is clearly sensing it or when he reveals he sensed it. As you seem to imply, it is when he stops Tobirama's movement. And what is Tobirama fixated on at such a time: Stopping Madara, escaping this room, and trying to move when stopped.

Comparatively what is Hashirama doing? Staring at Sasuke, Orochimaru, Juugo, and Suigetsu with the intention of speaking with Sasuke.

His focus would be on Orochimaru. As such, when Tobirama stopped moving, basic sensing would allow him to see the person he's calmly observing has his DNA (simply by seeing the chakra happens to be his own... Not that it's the only reason he senses it).

As such, your argument for Keennnes falls closer to being at an advantageous situation in regards to preparing to sense Orochimaru.

5. No one said that was all Hashirama was doing; however, it is clear he was simply standing there where the other sibling was occupied with other things. He clearly had the intention of speaking with Sasuke so that proves he did more than sense Orochimaru the whole time.

I'm sorry, but based on the definition of keen and better I already find it hard to even argue them when they honestly do not compare by definition. It only leads to who's a better sensor, and that's Tobirama.

Lmao has nothing to do with uncivilized. In fact it is used by civilized people.

1. It is shown. Is sword mastery defined? no.. it is shown. So unless you are arguing for , just arguments sake.. than there is no point.

2. You said plausible factor.. hence you are making a implication. Yet you say you weren't saying it at all.. and weren't even considering it. I simply addressed the "plausible factor".

3. He took his time to sense the Kinkaku force.... do not see how this has anything to do with keen.... which refers to being sharp. It is nice you list it out, but which part of Tobirama being a better sensor did you not understand, felt like the need to state it over and over?

Sadly you do not understand what a keen person is. Hashirama doesn't have the range to sense all those ninja. However, that has nothing to do with keen. Keen simply refers to being sharp. Hell Itachi is even keen..

4. If i give a scan, you better provide a scan yourself to counter it. And as for your excuse. Do you believe Hashirama was focusing on Orochimaru? no. There is no advantage in this situation. The chakra of Orochimaru with Hashi's dna, went through all the Hokage, including Hashirama and Tobirama. Hashirama was simply the first one to realize Oro was using his dna to power edo tensei. UNDERSTAND WHAT KEEN IS. Even if Tobirama was mad, if he was keen, he would've immideitly sensed Hashirama's chakra in Oro.

Notice how Hashirama at this point is looking at Tobirama.. and not focused on ORochimaru. However when Tobirama is bound.. he straight out comments on Orochimaru. I don't see why you have a problem with someone being more keen than Tobirama.

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Hashirama wasn't able to sense Oro using his dna, until Orochimaru surged his chakra through the Hokage to bind them. Tobirama was simply to late on this.. that is what DULL means.

Dull: lacking brightness, vividness, or sheen.


5. "His sibling was occupied", but Hashirama wasn't? Tobirama being a hot-head, gets in the way him being keen. Another excuse. Funny that you guys keep making excuse when the manga implies Tobirama SHOULD'VE BEEN able to sense it, since he is a better sensor. Is there anything implied against that? no.

That event took place to recognize what I said in my thread. So far all I have gotten from your posts are the excuses you make from seeing whats going on in the manga, and some of them are even non-factors.


Sorry but keen has to do with how sharp your mind is. Sensory has to do with the ability to sense enemies by focusing. But keen has nothing to do with Focus.


PS: Notice I never put Hashirama vs Tobirama in the OP. I simply compared who is more keen vs the 2. Seems like people who posted against it are the ones that believe this a VS thread in sensing.

I just dont see why you have to classify them as two different types, why not make it simple & say that hashi has a weaker version, rather than a different version?

Are you not able to read?

Keen sensing , is not only implied to Hashirama, but characters like Itachi also. They aren't great sensors like Minato and Tobirama, but they are more keen. Meaning they pick their surroundings immediately unlike Tobirama and Minato who have to focus.

So I ask the question, why are you making this about who is a better sensor between the 2?

I am running out of gifs. Please due tolerate.

1. Yes it does. If he was so keen he should have sensed his own cells ever since meeting him.

2. The initial takeover Tobirama was focused on himself as seen in the reference. During that time, Hashirama was studying the room, as he did not succumb to the takeover. If you take Tobirama and put him in Hashirama's shoes, we would be talking about how bad of a sensor Hashirama is and how un-keen he is. Different constants mean different outcomes.

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3. After the initial take-over, not during. Just re-read.

And i'm running out of patience for you..

1. No, he sensed them, when Orochimaru flowed his chakra through him. Tobirama however could sense chakra in others.. meaning Tobirama can sense better. But in this case Hashirama was more keen.

2. Are you going blind or something? Because clearly Tobirama was looking Orochimaru and explaining him, while looking at him. While Hashirama was focused on Tobirama. No one said Hashirama is a good sensor.... lmao. Why are you still on this topic?

3. WOAAH, so now its after the initial take-over? Because originally I said he sensed it when he was still bound.. so what your saying is, you were disagreeing for no reason? Even than, he should've been able to sense it. But he didn't because he isn't keen like his brother.

 

[Penguin]

And i'm running out of patience for you..

1. No, he sensed them, when Orochimaru flowed his chakra through him. Tobirama however could sense chakra in others.. meaning Tobirama can sense better. But in this case Hashirama was more keen.

2. Are you going blind or something? Because clearly Tobirama was looking Orochimaru and explaining him, while looking at him. While Hashirama was focused on Tobirama. No one said Hashirama is a good sensor.... lmao. Why are you still on this topic?

3. WOAAH, so now its after the initial take-over? Because originally I said he sensed it when he was still bound.. so what your saying is, you were disagreeing for no reason? Even than, he should've been able to sense it. But he didn't because he isn't keen like his brother.

I don't know if you are just stubborn or delusional.

1. Hashirama didn't sense the make-up of cells until Orochimaru used the cells as an extra boost to bind Tobirama. Moot point on you're part.

2. When Tobirama was "shivering" due to Orochimaru exerting his control, Hashirama sensed Orochimaru's DNA make-up. Tobirama couldn't as he was being taken under control with more focus from Orochimaru. Do not get what you cannot comprehend.

3. I re-read. I made on error. Everything else remains the same.