Senjutsu: hidden power of the SENJU?? Uchiha clan cursed by Juubi's will

[Colonel Armstrong]

dam that was long

 

[adeshina365]

I think the Hyūga and Byakūgan were retcons.

But from an in-universe explanation: Kakashi was simply mistaken

Kakashi said "They say the Uchiha origin lies with the Hyūga Clan" Kakashi was not making a definitive statement based on his own knowledge but rather he was basing his statement on hearsay.

And if you look at OP's scan, Kakashi was making another erroneous statement: "The Rikūdo Sage? He's nothing but a myth, and the Rinnegan is just a mutation"

You've hit the nail on the head.

For me it's been obvious for a while now, but you'll still see people making elaborate threads about how the Hyuga can still be relevant.

 

[Sir Blades]

I think the Hyūga and Byakūgan were retcons.

But from an in-universe explanation: Kakashi was simply mistaken

Kakashi said "They say the Uchiha origin lies with the Hyūga Clan" Kakashi was not making a definitive statement based on his own knowledge but rather he was basing his statement on hearsay.

And if you look at OP's scan, Kakashi was making another erroneous statement: "The Rikūdo Sage? He's nothing but a myth, and the Rinnegan is just a mutation"

I am disappointed in the answer I got. I hope its not true.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

You've hit the nail on the head.

For me it's been obvious for a while now, but you'll still see people making elaborate threads about how the Hyuga can still be relevant.

Many things in part 1 were retconned in Shippuden, just like how it was implied in part 1 that Minato (still nameless back then) was the inventor of Shiki Fūjin and the Uzumaki seals. It is obvious that Kishimoto intended Minato to be the Uzumaki father but opted to give the surname and seals to Naruto's mother and her clan instead.

 

[EternalKaze7]

I am disappointed in the answer I got. I hope its not true.

Did you read my response to the question? Kakashi is not 100% in error, in fact he connected the two which is NOT error it is evidence for Hyuuga and Uchiha relation and it would be hard for Kishi to wish it not true. I think Kishi likes to make Kakashi QUICK TO SAY AND BELIEVE THINGS as Obito pointed out about his character before he revealed his identity; chapter 599.

 

[Joon]

It is very very obvious that these two are related and my thread already contains information on this. If you and everyone else wants to disagree about the title of my thread and attack the non manga fact parts which are theory than you can take it elsewhere where creativity does not fluorish and idiots are evolved, I have no time to reply to sad individuals who want to disagree on such minor obvious points and I am tired of piecing together anything with intelligence if I am constantly met with such a dull response and later my words are used against me to fight or to steal my ideas.

Bro, what? You won't me to say I like theory and leave it at that? I am pointing out key facts while deducing the theory to separate the non-factual information.

1. I understand how it all connects to the the "God Tree". However, your cutting through the ancestry line. Senju and Uchiha inherited their traits from the younger and older son of the Sage and their (younger and older) traits from the Sage himself. It is unknown, but you can say the Sage was born with the traits from his mother and she obtain the power from the God Tree (Juubi).

2. You have gone and talk about Yin/Yang. Yin/Yang can be said for anything quoted by Madara. It is balance. The Sage disrupt that balance separating the Juubi. However, he maintain the balance creating the Tailed Beast with the Creation of All Things Technique. Sp that does not matter.

3. You explain the Uchiha thing and I got lost, hence my recent post.....

... But it was just Hashirama though. Not the whole Senju Clan.

You mean the only Senju being Hashirama as he was the only Senju seen using Sage Mode. Also, it is because of their vitality or life fore and physical energy they have the body to sustain Sage Mode.

It is because the Uchiha's traits known to be inherit from the Older Son of the Sage are they not able to access Sage Mode and because their are not an essential connection to the Juubi, but descendants of the Sage who posses Rinnegan.

 

[EternalKaze7]

Bro, what? You won't me to say I like theory and leave it at that? I am pointing out key facts while deducing the theory to separate the non-factual information.

1. I understand how it all connects to the the "God Tree". However, your cutting through the ancestry line. Senju and Uchiha inherited their traits from the younger and older son of the Sage and their (younger and older) traits from the Sage himself. It is unknown, but you can say the Sage was born with the traits from his mother and she obtain the power from the God Tree (Juubi).

2. You have gone and talk about Yin/Yang. Yin/Yang can be said for anything quoted by Madara. It is balance. The Sage disrupt that balance separating the Juubi. However, he maintain the balance creating the Tailed Beast with the Creation of All Things Technique. Sp that does not matter.

3. You explain the Uchiha thing and I got lost, hence my recent post.....





It is because the Uchiha's traits known to be inherit from the Older Son of the Sage are they not able to access Sage Mode and because their are not an essential connection to the Juubi, but descendants of the Sage who posses Rinnegan.

Okay well you are pointing out facts as if I do not understand or accept them when I do and I wouldn't make this thread without understanding. Yin and Yang can only be BALANCED with a strong medium so Yin power (imagination) is best manipulated by the Uchiha and Yang power (vitality, physical power) is best contained within the Senju in the story. In terms of whether or not those opposite clans can use those nonbloodline powers OF COURSE THEY CAN, as Nagato Uzumaki used Rinnegan and Danzo used both sharingan and a little bit of Hashirama's powers (which were hard for him to maintain). My theory pinpoints the yin and yang concepts in naruto and doesn't confuse it; maybe it is hard to understand if you do not believe in something like God or seem to have a vague interpretation of Yin and Yang which you accept to be just balance. but the manga scans will reiterate yin and yang for you if you disagree with mine. After all I am theorizing a bit but showing evidence too.

edit: the techiques of jutsu were a product of the ability to use chakra and originate with the sage, but the energy itself did not come from him it came from the Juubi. The energy that the Senju use is a product of chakra's growth within the body- manifesting since kaguya ate the fruit on the God tree, same with the Uchiha, but the change from good to evil occured within that same Tree that made the fruit, and the Uchiha are under its curse also converting from Loving to Hating and receive power from the Juubi based on the degree of strong hate..As a result its usually the Uchiha combatting the Senju and the only type of chakra that can defeat the God tree/Juubi/and it's Jinchuuriki is Sage chakra...2/3 Jinchuuriki's we know have been purely just Uchiha (Obito and Madara)..so more evidence pointing to the Uchiha-Juubi connection thing even if you want to say Obito was being influenced by Madara, in the end it was destiny...The cursed destiny of the Uchiha (Obito's reference) seems to point to the Juubi's effect on the world. Madara also says in chapter 646 (God tree):

"After finding out that we all rely on the Juubi's power/God tree I became hopeless and saw there are no dreams in this world Hashirama, I realized the only way to live is to trust in the Great Genjutsu of the God tree but the only difference is that when the flower of the god tree blooms it will be ME who controls it!"

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[Rikudoou naruto]

Nice man, enjoyed the read +rep

 

[EternalKaze7]

Nice man, enjoyed the read +rep

Cool, glad you liked it and thanks for the rep

 

[EternalKaze7]

Anyone else who feels like adding to this thread feel free to even if you think it's too late I still wait for more contribution now or later!

 

[KCMNaruto]

Ok, so first I would like to apologize for taking so long to put my input in your thread as you asked me personally via message to do that.

Now about the thread itself. Of course I completly agree with tittle of the thread and I think that you perfectly or in very good way proved your points by presenting them clearly and in simple way.

The only problem I would have with you thread is that you said Sage of six paths is just Yang while Juubi is Yin, which would be wrong, well partially true but still partially wrong.

Juubi's body is shown being as made of wood release and Juubi's eye is shown mix of sharingan and Rinnegan.

I believe that Hagoromo was Precursor of Hyuuga and Uzumaki clans but he was netiher of them but still somehow possesed all of them powers. It would fits well into manga as Uzumaki were known of sealing techniques and Hyuuga clan possesing Byakugan is known to have the best vision among all three great doujutsu. It would be both ingredients to allow SOSP to discover chakra and seal Juubi. Most likely he also used Senjutsu to increase his sealing arts power and also make Hyuuga(taijutsu oriented moves much stronger).

The fact that also Hagoromo was stated by Black Zetsu to be one of the two who awake Rinnegan naturally. The most of people believed that Rinnegan came from Juubi or Juubi's influence but it was proved wrong when Obito become Juubi's host and still lacked Rinnegan in one of eye. It is also impossible for Rikudou to be born with Rinnegan as it was stated he awake these eyes later.

The only last remaining choice is Hagoromo had to awake Rinnegan before fight against Juubi but after his birth. Well as far as Manga goes it shows that it is impossible to awake Rinnegan from normal eyes... but what if Sage already possesed Byakugan then... maybe Juubi's influence or it's eye on Byakugan caused it to change/evolve into Rinnegan, for me it would make sense and hold some importance.

Keep in mind that Byakugan was forgotten and lack panel time as well as lack development. What would be better way then to show it as Hagoromo's original doujutsu before he became Juubi's Jinchurki.

Imagine:

(Byakugan+Sharigan+Rinnegan)ULTIMATE EYE + (Senjuu, Uzumaki)ULTIMATE BODY = Juubi Jinchurki Sage of six paths

If he had also Senjutsu which I believe he had + possesed wood release then you have right there definiation of ultimate being worth for Kishimoto to be praised and put at the top of entire Narutoverse.

Sorry for such long reply... idk if you find time and will to read it but if you did then I hope you would enjoy that

 

[EternalKaze7]

Ok, so first I would like to apologize for taking so long to put my input in your thread as you asked me personally via message to do that.

Now about the thread itself. Of course I completly agree with tittle of the thread and I think that you perfectly or in very good way proved your points by presenting them clearly and in simple way.


The only problem I would have with you thread is that you said Sage of six paths is just Yang while Juubi is Yin, which would be wrong, well partially true but still partially wrong.

Juubi's body is shown being as made of wood release and Juubi's eye is shown mix of sharingan and Rinnegan.

I believe that Hagoromo was Precursor of Hyuuga and Uzumaki clans but he was netiher of them but still somehow possesed all of them powers. It would fits well into manga as Uzumaki were known of sealing techniques and Hyuuga clan possesing Byakugan is known to have the best vision among all three great doujutsu. It would be both ingredients to allow SOSP to discover chakra and seal Juubi. Most likely he also used Senjutsu to increase his sealing arts power and also make Hyuuga(taijutsu oriented moves much stronger).

The fact that also Hagoromo was stated by Black Zetsu to be one of the two who awake Rinnegan naturally. The most of people believed that Rinnegan came from Juubi or Juubi's influence but it was proved wrong when Obito become Juubi's host and still lacked Rinnegan in one of eye. It is also impossible for Rikudou to be born with Rinnegan as it was stated he awake these eyes later.

The only last remaining choice is Hagoromo had to awake Rinnegan before fight against Juubi but after his birth. Well as far as Manga goes it shows that it is impossible to awake Rinnegan from normal eyes... but what if Sage already possesed Byakugan then... maybe Juubi's influence or it's eye on Byakugan caused it to change/evolve into Rinnegan, for me it would make sense and hold some importance.

Keep in mind that Byakugan was forgotten and lack panel time as well as lack development. What would be better way then to show it as Hagoromo's original doujutsu before he became Juubi's Jinchurki.

Imagine:

(Byakugan+Sharigan+Rinnegan)ULTIMATE EYE + (Senjuu, Uzumaki)ULTIMATE BODY = Juubi Jinchurki Sage of six paths

If he had also Senjutsu which I believe he had + possesed wood release then you have right there definiation of ultimate being worth for Kishimoto to be praised and put at the top of entire Narutoverse.

Sorry for such long reply... idk if you find time and will to read it but if you did then I hope you would enjoy that

Hey thanks for replying. I was saying that Yang chakra was Sage chakra/Senjutsu/natural energy and not that it is from the body of the Sage but actually when you put it together it may kind of make sense that SAGE chakra is exactly what the SAGE of Six paths used, eh?? So it is like the names are a big implication to that: Sage of six paths/Sage chakra, Senju clan/Senjutsu, etc. I think that there were certain powers in the world separate from Hagoromo and the Juubi and the Uzumaki most likely are not directly related to the Sage but he was taught by the Uzumaki a clan of priests and they eventually became close to the Senju and the only bloodline connection they have to the Sage is from mixing with the Senju. As far as mokuton goes it only seems to be a product of the Sage's Senju body which is clearly manifested through Hashirama, and that wood power is connected to the physical yang part of the God tree. Oh and maybe the God tree is Yang while the Juubi is Yin- two parts of the same tree/being but this is only Yin and Yang of ONE EXISTENCE. In the larger sense I was thinking based on Kishi's explanations of Yin and Yang and the two clans that Senju uses Yang power and the Uchiha uses Yin power...connecting the Uchiha to the Juubi by examining the sharingan/rinnegan/juubi eye and Hashirama's use of wood style and senjutsu's connection with nature to connect them to Senjutsu also based on previous chapters talking about the two clans...Sadly I do not think that the Hyuuga will play any part in the future chapters and this is shown from Neji Hyuuga's death...it's a sad but true statement!

Also you might want to remember that all chakra came from the Juubi/God tree with the exceptions of separate natural energy found in places like Mount Myoboku or Ryuuchido, so the cycle of using chakra and gaining bloodline abilities most definitely originated with eating the God tree's fruit and once again with the exception of bloodline abilities in clans like the one Juugo is from which allow manipulation of separate natural energy.