[Theory] Seeking a tan!!! Tobi is Madara :)

[Stampy]

***Long Theory, but I modified the original post to incorporate clarifications of things said to be too poorly supported in my theory so that people can jump right inside the conversation by simply reading the FIRST post here, enjoy ***
***If you feel something is still wrong with THAT new post, it hasn't been covered so bring it up!***

Aiiiiight!!! I think I'm gonna get a tan from all that flamming which is coming to me right now! xd But I'm just gonna say it for the record. I think Tobi IS Madara still! Because Kishi's twisted sense of story telling and twisted unforseen events... It's the last thing we'd expect right now... But let's talk about the facts and what leads me to think what I think:

-Madara IS DEAD, it's a fact now.

Spoiler

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-Madara in his IWR knows about Nagato and was expected to be resurected by him. Just like Tobi said in a manga short after Nagato's death: He was supposed to use "that" jutsu for me, meaning either a heavy resurection to raise an army or a heavy resurrection spell to go seek a long gone soul.

Spoiler

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-It seems to me that Madara in his IWR has Tobi's POV from when Nagato was a kid.
-Tobi is not human, it's a fact as well, he is obviously a white zetsu's body with its own soul. Every time he looses something (Being an arm, or an arm again...) he just reattaches it no problemo! Besides there must be a reason he is extremely close to Zetsu, and I suspect it aint Zetsu's pretty face!!!
-Tobi said he is a shelf of his former self, which could DEFINATELY BE A TOTAL BS !!! But then again if my theory hits the bullseye, it works too!

-I think Madara (The original one) gave his memories, will and "powers" to a white zetsu (but NOT his soul, cause he couldn't find a way, nor did he wanted to) which became Tobi.
*TOBI WOULD NOT BE MADARA'S SOUL. This is the kicker here!!! Madara (IF and that's ONE BIG IF) would have put all his memories into a white zetsu (Cause it seems like Zetsu's white body is THAT adaptable) which somehow makes the creation THINK that it is Madara! But it's not!!! Because in order for that creation to BE Madara, it would NEED the soul! But we already KNOW that Madara's soul WAS in that pure world cause it just got IWR summoned!


-Madara GAVE his EMS/Rinnegan (That part of it was BS to me.... but there it is lol xD) So Tobi now DEFINATELY needed another sharingan.

Spoiler

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-Then this Tobi took Obito's remaining eye, shortly there after attacking Konoha and fight against Minato and all. Why Obito's sharingan soo important?! Because it is the only lost sharingan at the time that we know of. This is a theory, and it explains things. The how he could have gotten Obito's sharingan is simple. Zetsu, which is ground and nature, could have recovered it from beneath the rock slide. Also, there is a lot of controversy because People think Obito's eye was crushed. Well fair enough but I think that it was protected within the right socket in the skull. If the skull was crushed to, then Obito would not have been able to talk a short while after been crushed.

-Also why is it important that I still think it wasn't crushed?! Because nobody can deny the similarities between Kakashi's MS and Tobi's. An other VERY important part of this theory is when Tobi says to Kakashi about to strike him with Kamui that it would have no effect on him:

Spoiler

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-At this stage, if the theory fits, Madara (EDIT: in the form of Tobi) still think of himself as real bad ass cause judging by what he could do in chapter 560.... (Yes though stronger than he ever was... we see all the tactics that he had.) Taking Minato out wasn't far fetched at all. But the 4th helped him realize his limits. So he started to get in less and less fights, making Akatsuki.

-After all this drama he had to retire and come back at a more prepared timing.... which allowed him to re-inforce his Sharingan collection (destruction of the Uchiha clan), allowing him to have a second sharingan against Konan.
***IMPORTANT*** Tobi was NEVER SHOWN WITH 2 SHARINGANS Until AFTER we see his Sharingan Lab.

Spoiler

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-Note also that Tobi seems to have a LOT of knowledge, Madara's knowledge (or honest mistake.... even Minato thought it was him!) We're not talking Madara himself!!! But just somekind of souless creation of Madara, created by himself to do his biding while he is dead after giving Nagato Rinnegan.
It is extremely far fetched. It is possible though!
All right! time for comments/Flamming ! I want it all!

EDIT: Update based on current events

 

[Nilloc Uzumaki]

Your theory actually seems like a possibility. Makes about the same amount of sense as any other theory at least. Honestly, I lean toward a theory like yours than one that claims tobi ISN'T madara. Creative and well thought out man!

 

[Rexoniel]

Your theory actually seems like a possibility. Makes about the same amount of sense as any other theory at least. Honestly, I lean toward a theory like yours than one that claims tobi ISN'T madara. Creative and well thought out man!

Did you even read his post? He believes Tobi is a white zetsu with Madara's memories so in the long run, that means he's claiming Tobi isn't Madara as well. This whole thread is contradictory to its title. Despite that, I find it somewhat logical until Obito came into the picture. Theres no real necesity of him stealing Obito's eye that was said to be crushed. And Tobi has been shown with two sharigans at a time anyway.

 

[SonicRainboom]

Your theory actually seems like a possibility. Makes about the same amount of sense as any other theory at least. Honestly, I lean toward a theory like yours than one that claims tobi ISN'T madara. Creative and well thought out man!

Didnt read the post did you?...

 

[nevergiveup10]

Didnt read the post did you?...

no he didnt dur hur hur....he is being a dur hur hur like you.

 

[SonicRainboom]

lol are you following my posts? XD

 

[nevergiveup10]

lol are you following my posts? XD

you are not such a dur hur hur as i thought...u had just been upgraded to dur hur

 

[SonicRainboom]

ok

 

[nevergiveup10]

ok

 

[Stampy]

Did you even read his post? He believes Tobi is a white zetsu with Madara's memories so in the long run, that means he's claiming Tobi isn't Madara as well.

You absolutely got the point there. This is where I am hoping to get a flaming tan here. Because I actually believe that Tobi is Madara's attempt to make a "clone" as close to reality as possible but using one of White zetsu's number's of bodies!
It's NOT Madara. It's got properties of a white zetsu somehow... But it is neither. It's a White zetsu, deprived of white zetsu's techniques, but with Madara's consciousness, will, knowledge and memories. NOT SOUL. This is the kicker here!!! Madara (IF and that's ONE BIG IF) would have put all his memories into a white zetsu (Cause it seems like Zetsu's white body is THAT adaptable) which somehow makes the creation THINK that it is Madara! But it's not!!! Because in order for that creation to BE Madara, it would NEED the soul! But we already KNOW that Madara's soul WAS in that pure world cause it just got IWR summoned!
This theory justifies how Tobi knows soo much! It also allows for Madara to be an IWR. And it also allows for the possibilty of a IWR Madara not knowing what happened in the last 30 years, but somehow knowing Tobi's plan!
So you're ABSOLUTELY right in saying it is "contradicting"... but it makes sense, because if Madara MADE, as in modeled one of white Zetsu's bodies into the closest as possible to his own being (Madara), that creation, though not Madara, not having his Soul, would still THINK it is Madara. But the REAL madara would NOT HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE of what happened after his death. Though he made this creation (Tobi) to fulfill his wishes.

This whole thread is contradictory to its title. Despite that, I find it somewhat logical until Obito came into the picture. Theres no real necesity of him stealing Obito's eye that was said to be crushed. And Tobi has been shown with two sharigans at a time anyway.

Obito comes into the picture BECAUSE it is THE only LOOSE sharingan accessible in that time frame which is defined by Nagato's childhood till Minato's death. Also it somehow coincide with Tobi having only ONE visible sharingan (The right eye) until Konan's fight.
Now when you say Tobi has TWO sharingan, the FACTS... not theories (Thinking Tobi had 2 sharingans against Minato is, by definition, a THEORY) show that he ONLY showed his second sharingan AFTER the Minato fight, ALSO, after the decimation of the Uchiha Clan.

These two posts needs a lot of reading, I realize that, my writing skills are not that good. But if you guys read it right, you'd know there is a possibility that I am right. It is not refutable. Zetsu moves within the Earth, accessing Obito's remaining sharingan, while buried was possible to him, and pretty much effortless as well.

 

[lokazotico]

I think that madara was not able to leave his powers only one sharingan
the rinnegans and i bealive that the zetsus are his creattion ! mmm kinda craizy ! but well what tha hell ivgot like 6 theories **** i am just going to wait and see what happends !! grettins readers

 

[Stampy]

I think that madara was not able to leave his powers only one sharingan
the rinnegans and i bealive that the zetsus are his creattion ! mmm kinda craizy ! but well what tha hell ivgot like 6 theories **** i am just going to wait and see what happends !! grettins readers

Kinda crazy? Join my club I like your touch! Zetsu is definately out of this world!!! Anybody disagreing with that is crazy! Definately! This would possibly bring Orochimaru into the picture (I HATE OROCHIMARU... but I read a post from someone saying Oro might have known about Tobi the whole time, which I quite liked. I'll edit this to post a link) Maybe Madara THE REAL ONE worked with Orochimaru to create White Zetsu's who knows? (No arguments or theories to support this though, let's call it a sketch )
Here is the link of that thread, which somehow NOW connects to my theory

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[NarutoVsGoku]

I've been saying this from the getgo.

And you had me until you mentioned obito. Obito was under a pile of boulders, his other sharingan was completely crushed. That mean his other eye was destroyed.

Tobi is Madara. Either some of his chakra, will, memory, or even soul. It's possible if Mu can separate his body- physically and spiritually.

 

[Mizukata]

I've been saying this from the getgo.

And you had me until you mentioned obito. Obito was under a pile of boulders, his other sharingan was completely crushed. That mean his other eye was destroyed.

Tobi is Madara. Either some of his chakra, will, memory, or even soul. It's possible if Mu can separate his body- physically and spiritually.

i say the same,obito's other eye is as destroyed as shisuis eyes...its a very good theory exept with the obito thing

 

[TheTrueJutsuMaster]

Stampy, your theory is the closest to the truth. I strongly believe that. I had a hard time figuring this one out. Kishi is a true genious at making the reader really think and want to come back for more. Kudos to your theory, you are trully inteligent in the sense of narutoism. The only thing i disagree with is Obito's eye, other than that you are right.

 

[Stampy]

I've been saying this from the getgo.

And you had me until you mentioned obito. Obito was under a pile of boulders, his other sharingan was completely crushed. That mean his other eye was destroyed.

Tobi is Madara. Either some of his chakra, will, memory, or even soul. It's possible if Mu can separate his body- physically and spiritually.

Well yeah it is highly unlikely, but if you look at the facts, there weren't many available sharingans back then... Except for Madara's sharingan, but they were EMS's ... Maybe that's one thing the new body would NEED to self activate and transplanting a EMS would result in a regular sharingan? (Because the new body would have nothing to do with the 2 brothers? ) This theory would mean Tobi had the 2 sharingans all along, it is plausible as well.

i say the same,obito's other eye is as destroyed as shisuis eyes...its a very good theory exept with the obito thing

As for this part, same like NarutovsGoku (Nice sig btw ) if the eye was crushed, so would the skull had been, which would result in instant death, and Obito would NOT have been able to talk. I believe the eye was not destroyed, and it being crushed under the rocks is no problem for Zetsu to recover (Simply move from below he can travel through the ground and nature thingies, he didn't had to remove all the rocks.)

I'm aware people don't like this theory, but Tobi uses space/time jutsu's to teleport, Kakashi uses space/time jutsu to send objects to other dimensions.
Also When Naruto wanted to fight Sasuke, Kakashi prepared his MS to hit Tobi and give time to the two, to set things right! Tobi SHUT HIM DOWN XD said clearly: "That jutsu won't work against me". I believe there has to be a connection between Tobi's techniques and Kakashi's MS.

And it can't Tobi's technique, because when he teleport, everything spins around his eye, so it DEFINATELY is what triggers it. Now I am not saying it is for sure 100%. Maybe Obito's left eye was crushed. But those last arguments are just way to big and coherent to be dismissed like that. We didn't see the eye getting crushed, we can't be 100% sure.

 

[Tyrelh]

i think tobi is madara doll.

 

[Stampy]

i think tobi is madara doll.

Okay, possibly. What do you mean by doll though? Cause that's a little different than what I said

 

[Stampy]

Okay, I have modified the first post to incorporate what you guys thought was too weak in my original post. Basically am now saying the same thing still, but with a lot more explanations, pictures and updates from chapter 560.

 

[Stampy]

Aiiiight one last bump xD I think it deserves a little more answers considering the uber theory xD