Sasuke's speed issue.
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Glad Of War
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Yea you got it wrong.
My point isn't that Hirashin and his reflex speed got him the title. I added conditions, specifically I stated that in the perspective of onlookers, Minato wasn't teleporting but moving extremely fast, hence why their declaration was without objection. Unlike the results of taken into consideration the vice-versa, which would imply people consider teleportation as speed in Narutoverse. Even assuming it's the case, it doesn't make it any less wrong.
In response to your other point, when was it stated Tsunade had full knowledge on Minato's Hirashin? You say almost in certainty, so I'll assume there's some scan in support of this.
"Minato's hair being blonde along with the fact that he could move from point A to point B instantly is why he was called the yellow flash."
1. Naruto did not move instantly.
2. Naruto was covered with Kurama chakra, which is orange in color. Thus, his movement wasn't covered with yellow aesthetics.
Seeing as your supposed reasons as to why Naruto was referred as the Yellow-flash wasn't noted, my points stands without challenge. That is, Naruto was referred as the Yellow-flash because his movements seemed like the Yellow-flash.
His movement.. which was not instantaneous!
Rock Slayer
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Yup. Where do you think Sasuke got his speed from. He trained for it. Naruto reached that blitz level after obtaining Kurama's chakra. It's simply the advantage of being the kyuubi jinchuriki, just like it was a genetic advantage for Sasuke to copy Lee's Taijustu with his sharinagn.
They are shown saving Sakura from the mini juubi at the same time running, and running at the same pace and speed together while fighting Momoshiki.
Amenotejikara
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lol cute how it's okay for minato to be the "fastest shinobi" partly due to FTG but for sasuke it "doesn't count"
Don't play the victim, no one ever said it doesn't count. Its just that this thread is about physical speed. Of course in the battlefield, as long as Sasuke can use his Ameno, it doesn't matter and he will always be the fastest, its just not what this thread is about.
Sasuke up until that point got his speed from his training, but saying that Sasuke trained for the speed he has right now when he got a big fat Rikudo boost just like Naruto is...well, stupid, really.
That's not an accurate measurement. Neither of them were at their full speed.
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Well, you can argue Sasuke was since he was the only one to Shunshin, the thing Naruto used when pulling off his main speed feats like blitzing Kaguya and Ay, but that has no basis for comparison since Naruto didn't use it.
KidGamer65
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You see, this is what irks me when arguing with the vast majority of people here. They jump through hoops and do mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that they are wrong or were mistaken, just like you are doing now.
1. The main point of this argument is that Sasuke's teleportation does count as speed as Hiraishin has factored in to Minato's speed and that is a Manga and Databook fact. I'm going to need you to acknowledge and accept this if you want to continue this discussion.
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2. Stop with the ridiculous speculations. Don't ask for scans supporting my argument when you literally made everything you are saying up. Nowhere in this Manga did people assume that Minato was using the regular Shunshin instead of some special variant. They knew he teleported to tags. (see Ay vs. Minato)
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Tsunade and Shikaku and co talking about using Hiraishin to teleport to the battlefield. So yes, obviously Tsunade knows what Hiraishin is and knows that it's teleportation and not movement. Minato's hair when he teleported gave the effect of a yellow flash. Bold is you nitpicking. Like what? :lol
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. That and the edges of Naruto's cloak are orange. The rest is
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. Not orange. What you are saying fundamentally makes zero sense. Tsunade and B couldn't see his actual movements. All they stated they saw was a flash, so how in the world do they know that his movements are like Minato's? :lolSo no, you are obviously wrong on all fronts. Nobody thought Minato used regular Shunshin, Tsunade knew about Hiraishin, and teleportation is and always will be factored into someone's overall speed in this Manga regardless of you or anyone else's view on the matter. Ay knew that Minato TELEPORTED, not moved TELEPORTED to tags yet called him the FASTEST MAN ALIVE. It doesn't get any more clear cut than this.
Glad Of War
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It's funny because the Databook scan you posted contradicted the workings of Hirashin. High speed movement? It's teleportation for god sake. Then again, the Databook tends to say a lot of things that doesn't make sense.
"Temari can blow up the universe"
"Mifune can slash his sword at the speed of light"
Et cetera, Et cetera.
Secondly, I don't see the context in the scans you posted. Tsunade mentions they are saving the Flying Thunder Technique for Madara, yes, but how does imply she knew it the technique teleports an object from a point in space to another?
Shouldn't there be a chance she thought the technique might be related to Shunshin? By that, am referring to their nature of movement. The fact the Databook seem to describe its movement in reminiscent of Shunshin makes it more likely.
"That and the edges of Naruto's cloak are orange."
And that's what matter, or rather when Naruto moves, it's the flickering chakra at the edge that leaves trails.
"Tsunade and B couldn't see his actual movements. All they stated they saw was a flash, so how in the world do they know that his movements are like Minato's?"
You know, everything you've said in reference to this only substantiate my point further. As I stated, Tsunade implied Naruto's movement is like the Yellow-flash. Even if she couldn't see it, she suggested it was because of how Naruto traversed. The effect it gave off so to speak. It becomes simpler to create or look for a common ground between two concepts if their effects is similar.
In your case, you're implying Tsunade was making reference to the fact Naruto had similar hair as Minato, and in addition; Naruto could move from a point to another just like Minato. The latter literally supports my point. The former lacks substantiality because it consigns with the obvious.
Let me ask you this.
Have you ever heard of "Open World Assumption?"
It's a term that allows a statement to be true irrespective of the fact it's not known to be true.
Just because no one was shown in the Manga stirring up the suggestion; Minato was moving, doesn't stop or voids every bit of indications which arose because of that particular subject.
Again, teleportation is not speed. It's a concept. You can't claim it's speed under the belief the Manga assumed it to be so. Your suggestion is essentially putting logic under lock and key because logic doesn't dictate the Manga. So it seems is your basis. In that case, Naruto has surpassed instant movement because it was stated Naruto surpassed Minato in speed.
Ergo, Naruto > Sasuke.
Because;
Amenotejikara is an instant movement.
Naruto's speed is above instant movement.
KidGamer65
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This is another thing I don't like. People not reading before they reply. The databook clearly states it works like Summoning Jutsu and that it's instant.
"His high speed movement...it's really space time movement"
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"It is not comparable to the movement of Shunshin. The principle is similar to that of Kuchiyose"
There shouldn't ever be a need for me to have to quote from an article I just posted because you want to misconstrue the meaning to benefit your argument. Hyperbole is irrelevant in this discussion so let's not go there. That language is used to say that Temari's wind is powerful and that Mifune's sword strokes are quick. What is being stated here is a blatant fact with no way to exaggerate it as it's not any kind of quantifiable statement.
Are you playing dumb just so you can extend the life of this debate that you lost the moment the databook scan was posted?
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The discussion is about how Tsunade and Ay can get to the battlefield in a short amount of time. Mabui says the Transportation Tech she uses is not an option for Tsunade since she might be ripped to shreds, then Shikaku says that they should contact Genma's squad and have them use Hiraishin to get to the battlefield, to which she says no because she'll use the seal.
Then you could just use your common sense. Why would she say "we'll use it against Madara" when she has no idea what it does?
Not if you properly read those 3 scans and even decided to go back further. The databook blatantly states that Hiraishin's movement is NOT like Shunshin. What are you even doing man? I posted the scan yet somehow you are still managing to say things blatantly incorrect.
No, it's not. When Naruto uses Shunshin he moves so fast that he becomes a blur, but said blur is yellow because Naruto's cloak is yellow.
The effect, as in the flash, which is the same as Minato using Hiraishin since he has blond hair.
Naruto's hair is irrelevant to this discussion? Are you reading properly? Do you have a problem understanding the language I'm typing in? If so let me know, because this is getting to be ridicuclous.
-Naruto's cloak. Yellow. Moves fast. Creates flash from color of his cloak. Yellow. Flash.
-Minato's hair. Blond. Teleports. Creates flash from color of hair. Yellow (Blond is yellow) Flash.
How Minato moved is irrelevant to why Naruto was compared to him. The effect of them moving/teleporting is what led Naruto to be compared to him. Seriously, this is stuff that should just come to you when you read, but you're clearly here to push some agenda which is why you are making things up as you go.
Except there's nothing that indicates anything you are saying. Don't use this term to try and justify the simple fact that you are making up everything you are arguing. I'll say this again. Ay knew Minato teleported yet said he was faster than him. I don't care about your views of speed so leave them at the door.
Nice try bud, but let's go back to the first few posts since you clearly have a short term memory issue along with a reading issue. What determines a teleporters speed is their teleportation tech combined with their natural reflexes, which is why every teleporter isn't known as the fastest shinobi despite the fact that they move instantly. Naruto surpassing Minato in speed would only mean that Naruto's natural reflexes and raw speed are above what Minato can accomplish with his own reflexes and Hiraishin.
That and KCM Naruto was never once stated to be faster than Minato. He was only said to be the second person to have dodged Ay's punch.
Now, the Manga characters all know that Minato teleports yet they called him the fastest shinobi. Ay knew first hand that Minato teleported from tag to tag, yet called him the fastest shinobi. You can cry about how teleportation isn't speed all you want. Not only is that irrelevant to the above paragraph, but I don't care. That's how speedsters in Naruto are ranked. Accept it or don't post. Doesn't get any simpler than this.
KidGamer65
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That's 2 scans and a databook entry to prove my point, meanwhile all I've seen from this guy are biases and speculations after speculations. Oh yeah, and I can't forget about the age old strawman. "Everybody thought that Minato was moving normally"
Blatantly said or implied nowhere in this Manga.
-Ay knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-Tsunade knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-DB states he was called the Yellow Flash because of Hiraishin.
Quit arguing against fact, especially when you can't bring a shred of evidence to support your case.
Blatantly said or implied nowhere in this Manga.
-Ay knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-Tsunade knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-DB states he was called the Yellow Flash because of Hiraishin.
Quit arguing against fact, especially when you can't bring a shred of evidence to support your case.
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InfiniteMugen
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Everyone in konoha and even people from other villages knew that minato used ftg and that it was teleportation... what’s the issue here?
Ambivalence
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Glad Of War
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You don't like people not reading before they reply? Good for you. However it's incomparable to my disgust for people who can't comprehend things that's right in front of them.
The Databook literally describes it as a "High speed movement" adding the classification; "space-time movement."
By all means, the sentence "space-time movement" is extremely vague. It also doesn't indicate it gave light to the term "teleportation" as both are defined distinctively.
"That language is used to say that Temari's wind is powerful and that Minute's sword strokes are quick."
Except both languages used are clearly defined, thus their meaning are not as ambiguous as a language whose content is figurative.
Blowing up a universe means blowing up a universe.
Having the ability to slash at the speed of light implies slashing at 3*e8 meters per second.
So, unveiling the things that seemed not parallel with the main context is playing dumb? Wow, you must feel special having a faulty comprehension ability. Case in point; your inability to understand my solicitation is simply giving an open field to doubts that surrounded Tsunade's knowledge on Hirashin.
I asked, where in the scan suggested she knew the technique teleports its carrier? I now considered the case of the recurring theme in the Manga, where both
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as been referred as teleportation, hence discarding the boundary between both techniques representing two side of a coin. Basically, this implies the results of referring both techniques as "teleportation" makes them interchangeable, all the while having a similar meaning. Indeed, if that's the case, there's every bit of possibility Tsunade perspective on Hirashin is Shunshin since both words had been used interchangeably in the Manga.
"The databook blatantly states that Hiraishin's movement is NOT like Shunshin."
Loved how you forgot to mention the scan you posted initially was incomplete. Forgetting things, is that a trait of yours? Even then, like I stated the Databook is NOT law. It's been established some of things it advances are riddled with contradictions. The Manga uses the word Hirashin and Shunshin almost like they are of a coin. Being that the Manga is the primary source of reference, am finding it difficult to take statements from the Databook with more value. It's even more difficult for me to take that course of action considering the Databook is notorious for making ludicrous claims.
"No, it's not. When Naruto uses Shunshin he moves so fast that he becomes a blur, but said blur is yellow because Naruto's cloak is yellow."
Except when he moved towards Kisame, it's the flickering chakra at the edges that indicated a fast movement.
"The effect, as in the flash, which is the same as Minato using Hiraishin since he has blond hair."
No. It's the mode of his movement. Naruto's movement seemed like he teleported, hence why she was inclined to say it's almost like the Yellow-flash. The aesthetic effect had nothing to do with her statement.
"Naruto's hair is irrelevant to this discussion? Are you reading properly? Do you have a problem understanding the language I'm typing in? If so let me know, because this is getting to be ridicuclous."
Fair enough. I mistook your basis.
"Naruto surpassing Minato in speed would only mean that Naruto's natural reflexes and raw speed are above what Minato can accomplish with his own reflexes and Hiraishin"
Let me get this straight; you're implying Naruto couldn't have surpass Hirashin with the reasons; which I'll assume is your premise; Hiraishin is instant?
Did you just unintentionally support my point, because it seems to be the case. Then again, you stated Hirashin is considered speed in Narutoverse which means it can be accounted with time. Ergo, Hirashin can be surpassed, which is likely the intention when the Manga portrayed Naruto had surpassed Minato.
"Now, the Manga characters all know that Minato teleports yet they called him the fastest shinobi. Ay knew first hand that Minato teleported from tag to tag, yet called him the fastest shinobi."
Ay called him the fastest Shinobi because he evaded his fastest punch. Notice how this only reference solely to his reaction speed? No where was it stated he was labelled the fastest shinobi because of his teleportation tech. This goes back to what purposed earlier; Minato teleportation tech made him seemed like he was moving extremely fast, hence why he was called the fastest. The Databook scan you posted only gave the reason; "High speed movement" as the term which coined the epithet.
High speed movement is synonymous to the description "moving extremely fast."
"Not only is that irrelevant to the above paragraph, but I don't care. That's how speedsters in Naruto are ranked."
Lool, this was inevitable. The "I don't care" argument. All I see is hurrrrrrrr durrrrrrr
Glad Of War
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Now let's get something straight. I've noticed that you put yourself at an higher place in terms of which our argument holds more value because you're posting scans. Essentially, it's the same logic people employ; I posted scans, so am right. You posted nothing but words so you're wrong.
You also doesn't get the fact a logical assumed proposition is true lest proven not to be true. My speculations has you called it, are inferred from sequential logic behind what it means to teleport. I'm not entirely entitled to accept everything that the Manga says which goes against logic, especially when the Manga itself portrays the concepts of our real world. Time, Gravity, Speed, Distance, are such concepts employed by the Manga.
Hirashin being a variant of speed goes against everything that is logic. Now you can say, so is walking on water or manipulating elements. However, those were made possible because of chakra, a made up concept. Hirashin is teleportation, and teleportation is predicated from a real life postulated logic, thus I have the courtesy of subjecting it to logical measures.
Side note: I'm pretty sure you are going to suggest chakra is from the Hindu concept; except in Naruto, chakra came from a goddess.
You also doesn't get the fact a logical assumed proposition is true lest proven not to be true. My speculations has you called it, are inferred from sequential logic behind what it means to teleport. I'm not entirely entitled to accept everything that the Manga says which goes against logic, especially when the Manga itself portrays the concepts of our real world. Time, Gravity, Speed, Distance, are such concepts employed by the Manga.
Hirashin being a variant of speed goes against everything that is logic. Now you can say, so is walking on water or manipulating elements. However, those were made possible because of chakra, a made up concept. Hirashin is teleportation, and teleportation is predicated from a real life postulated logic, thus I have the courtesy of subjecting it to logical measures.
Side note: I'm pretty sure you are going to suggest chakra is from the Hindu concept; except in Naruto, chakra came from a goddess.
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Glad Of War
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Rock Slayer
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Hagoromo's chakra couldn't possibly give Sasuke greater speed. His godlike speed is his own doing, just like Minato. It was Naruto who got the speed boost through Six Path Sage Mode. Like I said, it's the advantage of having the "body" of the sage, you don't have to train like other shinobi to be fast, you simply unlock a mode that powers you up.
KidGamer65
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This is pretty ironic coming from you. The databook never once stated that Hiraishin is high speed movement. It says that it is REALLY space time movement.
"It is really" = "It is this, and not what it seems to be". Jesus bud. Try opening a dictionary before you come here and make an ass of yourself. DB says "His high speed movement is really space time movement". Meaning it is not high speed movement. "Space time movement" isn't a classification given to the previously aforementioned high speed movement. It is separate. Learn how to read. It'll make this whole debating thing much easier.
Please learn what an exaggeration is. It being defined doesn't make it not an exaggeration, which is also known as hyperbole. It's clearly exaggerated beyond what is shown in the Manga and that is just to illustrate the speed or power of said jutsu and is NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.
Even then let's just compare the language of the articles in question.
"Temari can blow away the universe"
"Amaterasu is hotter than the sun"
vs.
"Minato was called the Yellow Flash because of Hiraishin"
"Hiraishin works like summoning, not Shunshin"
It's painfully obvious to anyone with even a sub par grasp of english that the above are hyperbole while the below are not as there is nothing being exaggerated.
Which also leads me to you trying to invalidate the databook. Stop trying to use statements not meant to be taken literally to try and invalidate everything else that is meant to be taken as fact.
No, acting like what you are looking for isn't in the scans provided is what is called playing dumb.
I
What? Do you want me to start cutting out panels for you? The entire discussion is about how Tsunade and Ay can get from the HQ to the battlefield immediately, which is only possible with teleportation. Not high speed movement. Shikaku told her they could mark Katsuyu and everything. Then they later used it so Mei could reach the battlefield.
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"Isn't that the Fourth Hokage's Instant Teleportation Technique"
First you provide nothing but baseless speculation, but then when something that destroys your argument is brought to the stand you act like you have to be spoonfed information before you can reach a conclusion. Cut the bull man. You're not stupid. You just don't want to admit you are wrong.
And no, Shunshin and Hiraishin have not be used interchangeably. People who didn't know the name of the tech called it Shunshin as visually it could pass as Shunshin to someone who can't perceive Minato's movements. People who did simply call it "Flying Raijin, Flying Thunder God, or Hiraishin". Tobirama was speaking of the actual Body Flicker Jutsu when he said what he said in the scan you posted.
Then you could just use common sense, again. Why would Tobirama incorrectly label his own jutsu? Why would he be complimenting his Hiraishin when Minato used Shunshin to reach the battlefield and plant his tags?
If you want to make excuses by trying to invalidate the Databook based on pretty much nothing you're on your own. Your opinion is irrelevant when you can't bring anything worth responding to this discussion. If you want to invalidate what the databook has said show me the specific discrepancies in that specific article free of your speculation or stop making excuses.
Pure naivete or pure bias are the only things that could fuel a claim as silly as "everything in the databook is wrong because of exaggerations made in certain articles".
Nope. What's stated is that the flash he makes when he moves is what led them to compare him to Minato. Do you like arguing against fact?
B stated all he saw was A YELLOW FLASH. Meaning Naruto leaves a yellow flash when he moves. Is arguing against the Manga all you are capable of?
"Naruto surpassing Minato in speed would only mean that Naruto's natural reflexes and raw speed are above what Minato can accomplish with his own reflexes and Hiraishin"
Re-read what is being stated until you realize what is being said. Shouldn't take along considering I've stated how exactly speed works here multiple times in plain english.
Using the strawman fallacy isn't going to make your argument look any less ridiculous than it already is. How teleportation is considered to be speed has been stated twice in my post. If you want to continue to misconstrue the point you can do us both a favor and stop responding.
Teleportation combined with the user's reflexes is what makes up their speed. Hiraishin factors into Minato's speed regardless of whether you like it or not as shown by multiple characters in this Manga. Hilarious how posters on this site think they can argue with the author.
Wrong. Use your common sense. Minato only dodged his fastest punch because he had Hiraishin, not just because of his reflexes. If he lacked Hiraishin he would've failed to dodge and would not have been called the fastest man alive. So no, it wasn't because of his reflexes alone. It was because of his reflexes combined with the fact he can teleport. Read that last sentence carefully because it seems to be a point you are purposely ignoring to try and make my argument seem less logical than it really is, which is nothing but an underhanded tactic, and a terrible one at that.
The rest is irrelevant. Nowhere in this Manga is it even implied that everyone thought Minato was moving and not teleporting. I know this because I have read the Manga. I know this because even after I challenged you to bring evidence of this claim of yours and after 3 posts you do nothing but repeat the same baseless assertion.
No, I don't care no matter how much it hurts your feelings. Kishimoto has given his views on this topic directly. Your opinion as a fan is irrelevant, that is, unless you aren't a fan and happen to be Kishimoto in disguise. :lol
-Databook says Minato became the Yellow Flash because of Hiraishin.
-People who knew how his jutsu really worked still thought of him as the Yellow Flash, the fastest man alive.
You do not have a leg to stand on. Give it up while you still make a little bit of sense.
KidGamer65
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Wrong. I put my argument on a higher pedestal than yours because what I'm saying is supported by the Manga, meanwhile what you are saying is not. You made it up, which is why you don't provide the proof when you are asked to. Don't make stupid excuses to try and cover up the fact you have no ground to stand on.
You also need to learn to use your common sense. Speed in science is distance over time, but speed is also abstractly described as "how fast" one can accomplish tasks or do something whether it be fiction or reality. In that sense, Hiraishin when coupled with the user's reflexes is speed. What you are arguing is akin to a scenario where the shinobi are on a treadmill and we're tracking how fast they can move. That's an irrelevant scenario. The concept of speed in this Manga isn't just how much distance one can cross in a given timeframe. Otherwise Minato dodging Ay w/ Hiraishin wouldn't be a speed feat.
What you also need to do is stop this pathetic strawman fallacy you keep throwing into each post you make. Hiraishin itself is not speed nor has anyone stated that teleportation itself is distance/time. Hiraishin (Or any instant teleportation) combined with the reactions of the person who employs it are what determine their overall speed. Read and comprehend that carefully or don't address me again. Nothing is worse than arguing with someone who likes to make up points to argue against.
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Glad Of War
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"This is pretty ironic coming from you. The databook never once stated that Hiraishin is high speed movement."
Case in point this; you can't comprehend shit even if it scream at your face. Terrible, absolutely terrible for you. I wouldn't wish for someone to have faulty comprehension capability, even to someone I loath.
It's pretty clear my statements concerning the reason why Minato was called Yellow-flash was meant to create a connective between "High speed movement" and "space-time movement." You whored at it like am objecting the the term, space-time movement, while ignoring the proposition I advanced which suggests teleportation and space-time movement are distinctive in meanings.
By definition, space-time movement is simply moving in our dimension, and teleportation is moving from one point in space to another without de-materializing. Notice how both terms have distinctive meaning?
Thus everything you posted in reference to what I'll call "your own version of what I meant" are irrelevant. Basically, it's a pile of shit that needed not to be released.
"Please learn what an exaggeration is."
Are you dumb? Seriously, am considering you are. When did I say the statements i brought up weren't an exaggeration or that they should be taken literally? When?
I know for a fact they are. However it doesn't mean they aren't clearly defined. God, it's like you can't help but throw out your disgusting head-canons as fact.
The associated terms you set up are every bit as retarded as your insistent decision to impose your own version of my points as fact.
Please understand this. I incorporated those statement to prove the Databook makes ridiculous claims, leaving the statements you extracted from the Databook to be taken with a grain of salt.
Ridiculous =/= Exaggeration.
"Which also leads me to you trying to invalidate the databook. Stop trying to use statements not meant to be taken literally to try and invalidate everything else that is meant to be taken as fact."
Yes I know you can't comprehend shit, so let me clear myself. I'm not trying to invalidate the Databook. I'm simply saying you can't expect everything in the Databook to be law giving its past antics.
"No, acting like what you are looking for isn't in the scans provided is what is called playing dumb."
Well you have somewhat proven to be dumb, soooo!
"which is only possible with teleportation . Not high speed movement."
"Tobirama was speaking of the actual Body Flicker Jutsu when he said what he said in the scan you posted."
Congratulation on contradicting yourself. Here's a big fat prize. Can you guess what's hidden inside? A brain of course. Now am not pulling your legs. It's a contradiction on astronomical scale, thus it's required for me to grant you this prize.
Anyway, let's get to the reasons why you contradicted yourself, shall we? In the body of your first proposition, you suggested that traveling through long distances required teleportation, not high speed movement. Then in the later one; you suggested Tobirama was speaking of the actual Body Flicker Jutsu wherein he travelled from Konoha to the battle field. That's an extremely long distance, and Body Flicker Jutsu is essentially high speed movement. Ergo, you are implying Tobirama travelled through a long distance with Body Flicker Jutsu, when at precedent you stated it's impossible to travel long distances with High speed movement.
Come to think of it, if it's impossible to travel long distances with High speed movement, yet Tobirama was able to achieve the fact, it's likely Shunshin was meant to denote Hirashin, since with the latter it becomes a probability to travel at long distances. Bottom-line, you substantiated my point; Tobirama was indeed referring to Hirashin in the scan I posted because both words can be used interchangeably.
"everything in the databook is wrong because of exaggerations made in certain articles".
We've passed this. Stop advancing claims based on your own perspective towards the connotations. I didn't say everything in the Databook are wrong for crying out loud.
"Nope. What's stated is that the flash he makes when he moves is what led them to compare him to Minato. Do you like arguing against fact?"
That doesn't even address my point. It's nothing but a pseudo intellectual/red-herring.
"B stated all he saw was A YELLOW FLASH . Meaning Naruto leaves a yellow flash when he moves. Is arguing against the Manga all you are capable of?"
I'm not talking about Bee. You say I can't read, yet your actions indicates the very thing you accuse me of.
"Re-read what is being stated until you realize what is being said. Shouldn't take along considering I've stated how exactly speed works here multiple times in plain english."
You outright disregarded the claim Naruto couldn't have surpass Hirashin, did you not? Why should have to re-read what you said when you can't even comprehend your own actions?
"Using the strawman fallacy isn't going to make your argument look any less ridiculous than it already is"
Saying am using the strawman fallacy doesn't mean am using the strawman fallacy. I simply unveiled what entails if you're going with the logic Hiraishin is speed. At this point, I'll rather not condone this anymore if you can't understand the things am saying. It's tasking yes, but it's also fruitless considering you don't want to understand. It's a lethargic trait which you need to work upon. By that i mean obviate, along with increasing your capability to understand simple statements.
"Wrong. Use your common sense. Minato only dodged his fastest punch because he had Hiraishin, not just because of his reflexes."
I cleared this up earlier, didn't I? Yes, Minato evaded his fastest with Hiraishin, but he needed to visibly moves his hands upward, whilst activating the Jutsu. In that sense, Minato showed he can react to Raikage fastest punch without the use of Hirashin. He only decided to utilise the tech, in what I'll assume; was to get behind of Bee.
Referencing to your second paragraph, I'm quite aware it wasn't directed stated in the Manga, people thought Minato was moving. Howbeit, there are several indications which I laid out for you. It's not my fault you can't take time to process these connotations before giving a rebuttal. I even question if you have the ability to process anything at all.
"No, I don't care no matter how much it hurts your feelings. Kishimoto has given his views on this topic directly."
Yes let's accept everything Kishimoto states. I'm in support of this, which is why I accepted the Databook saying Madara reacted to an instant thrust. Clearly it implies Madara has instant reaction speed. RSM Naruto is above instant reaction speed cuz the same Databook stated his reaction speed exceed that of Madara.
Sarcasm not intended.
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