Sasuke without his sharingan and Naruto without the kurama

[Orenji Uzumaki]

Fail. I pointed out how Sage Mode uses Natural energy, which is an external source, but regardless, even with Sage Mode Sasuke still wins. I made that clear in my previous comments.

If Minato and Jiraiya could do Sage Mode, don't you think Sasuke could? Lol Don't forget how the CM drew in nature energy, and made Senjutsu. Sasuke had the CM since he was 13, and mastered it by 16.

He could have learned a type of sage mode. He had the potential.

Also, really my commemt on the previous page. Taking away tbe Kyuubi from Naruto is not equivalent to taking away the Sharingan from Sasuke.



There isn't a Japan in Naruto so they can't be Japanese. His eyes were clearly closed dude.

And look at you giving prep Time to Naruto in order to give him a chance, lol. The Sharingan, and Mangekyo Sharingan activate instantaneously, while Sage Mode requires prep time which is why it's extremely hard to load up in battle.

Just accept it, without ANY external power sources, Sasuke>Naruto, even with giving him Sage Mode.

Yea....no. once again you fail...jiraiya., despite being a legendary sannin, needed to fuse with summons. Minato was more of a natural prodigy than sasuke was , thus was able to mold.what little nature energy he could muster up into his own....which resulted in a SM that lasts maybe what?'''''1 minute ? 30 seconds ? Naruto was able to mold enough to last five minutes......more than enough time to counter any of Samsung's attacks and one shot him with frog Kata . Sasuke with no sharingan beats sage mode Naruto ? Really nikka? -_- 3 tomoe would get wrecked so how the **** would be win without sharingan altogether ? U fail bro

 

[shadowcb]

Itachi has 30 percent of his power at the moment due to using that guys body, and he was holding back against Naruto.

At another time in the story, when everyone was searching for Itachi, Naruto was once again easily caught in Genjutsu from looking into Itachi's eyes.

Solo Glance>Naruto




In chapter 453 Zetsu said Naruto was stronger than Sasuke, who had never used Susano'o at that point.

@bold

Actually Naruto said that in chapter 1, and based on that logic 6th Hokage Kakashi>RCM Naruto. By the way, Naruto became Hokage whilst Sasuke was exploring Kaguya's dimensions.

Stop making excuses. Itachi had 30% chakra not 30% power. Itachi's skills remain the same. He wasn't holding back. That was a genjutsu. It couldn't have physically hurt Naruto. His goal was to defeat Naruto in genjutsu and Naruto forced him to chance tactics, that's why praised Naruto's skills. That was a Naruto who had no experience dealing with genjutsu in combat. Naruto chakra control skills, maturity, and mental capability has vastly improved.

The second time that was Naruto's clone and clone didn't even try to defeat Itachi's genjutsu. He was busy trying to understand what Itachi was talking about.

Solo glance or whatever name you want to give that eye jutsu means nothing since we are talking about Sasuke without his sharingan and Naruto without the kurama.

PS: Sage Mode doesn't take a long time to load. Naruto activated Sage Mode in an instant while in a fighting stands -

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Before Naruto faced Pain he was doing the impossible by learning how to gather natural energy while moving -

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- Naruto was succeeding and starting to gather natural energy and activate SM while moving -

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- That's some of the potential he possess.

 

[Chaosmark101]

There isn't a Japan in Naruto so they can't be Japanese. His eyes were clearly closed dude.

And look at you giving prep Time to Naruto in order to give him a chance, lol. The Sharingan, and Mangekyo Sharingan activate instantaneously, while Sage Mode requires prep time which is why it's extremely hard to load up in battle.

Just accept it, without ANY external power sources, Sasuke>Naruto, even with giving him Sage Mode.

They clearly are, when they have clans and just a century before part 1 they appeared in a similar version of feudal Japan.

I'm not giving Naruto anything unlike you granting fanfic abilities to Sasuke when the Manga has never shown any Sharingan technique other than Kotoamatsukami working w/o eye contact.

Examples of his genjutsu: sharingan in action.

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Requires eye contact. Genjutsu isn't even a threat when a Realexpert with genjutsu Obito who's actual feats are controlling the kyuubi at 14, & controlled a PJ the yondaime mizukage for years calls Sasuke's genjutsu "

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" So not that he would get caught. A genjutsu kai should be enough. The end

 

[BLAZE]

Actually sage mode Naruto is stronger than MS sasuke as was clearly stated in the manga. So if you take away narutos kurama then you take away Itachis eyes from sasuke. Naruto was using rasengan at age 13. No Naruto wasn't born with the same talent as sasuke he was always behind sasuke but through sheer will power he caught up. And that irritates sasuke fans because sasuke is SUPPOSED to be stronger but he's not. Iruka did also state to konohamaru that only the strongest shinobi in all the village is able to become hokage and yes that includes sasuke as well. Now I'm not saying Naruto is stronger. Iruka did lol. They're both equal in strength. But Naruto wins because he's able to fight at the same level as these wonderful naturally talented uchiha.

Ah an alt lovely

Now when UZMAKIMADARA is banned i m not surprised


Still its lovely to See idiots comparing sharingan to a bijuu lml

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Yea....no. once again you fail...jiraiya., despite being a legendary sannin, needed to fuse with summons. Minato was more of a natural prodigy than sasuke was , thus was able to mold.what little nature energy he could muster up into his own....which resulted in a SM that lasts maybe what?'''''1 minute ? 30 seconds ? Naruto was able to mold enough to last five minutes......more than enough time to counter any of Samsung's attacks and one shot him with frog Kata . Sasuke with no sharingan beats sage mode Naruto ? Really nikka? -_- 3 tomoe would get wrecked so how the **** would be win without sharingan altogether ? U fail bro

This whole time I was saying Na ruto Vs Sasuke without ANY external power sources , the Sharingan is Sasuke's natural power...

He easily defeats Naruto with Genjutsu, Naruto's only counter was the Kyuubi. It was never said that Minato was more of a natural prodigy than Sasuke, based on facts/logic, Sasuke was more of one than him.


It was said that it usually takes learning and element months/years to do.

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Sasuke learned his first element, Fire Style, at 7/8, and his second, Lightning Style at 13, and mastered them both by 16.

Minato only knew Wind Style, which we atleast know he attempted to use for one Jutsu, the RasenShuriken.

Stop making excuses. Itachi had 30% chakra not 30% power. Itachi's skills remain the same. He wasn't holding back. That was a genjutsu. It couldn't have physically hurt Naruto. His goal was to defeat Naruto in genjutsu and Naruto forced him to chance tactics, that's why praised Naruto's skills. That was a Naruto who had no experience dealing with genjutsu in combat. Naruto chakra control skills, maturity, and mental capability has vastly improved.

The second time that was Naruto's clone and clone didn't even try to defeat Itachi's genjutsu. He was busy trying to understand what Itachi was talking about.

Solo glance or whatever name you want to give that eye jutsu means nothing since we are talking about Sasuke without his sharingan and Naruto without the kurama.

PS: Sage Mode doesn't take a long time to load. Naruto activated Sage Mode in an instant while in a fighting stands -

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Before Naruto faced Pain he was doing the impossible by learning how to gather natural energy while moving -

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- Naruto was succeeding and starting to gather natural energy and activate SM while moving -

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- That's some of the potential he possess.

I was never talking about Sasuke without his Sharingan.

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By power I meant chakra. By holding back I meant not using all his power to end Naruto quickly.

They clearly are, when they have clans and just a century before part 1 they appeared in a similar version of feudal Japan.

I'm not giving Naruto anything unlike you granting fanfic abilities to Sasuke when the Manga has never shown any Sharingan technique other than Kotoamatsukami working w/o eye contact.

Examples of his genjutsu: sharingan in action.

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You must be registered for see links

Requires eye contact. Genjutsu isn't even a threat when a Realexpert with genjutsu Obito who's actual feats are controlling the kyuubi at 14, & controlled a PJ the yondaime mizukage for years calls Sasuke's genjutsu "

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" So not that he would get caught. A genjutsu kai should be enough. The end

Sai had his eyes closed. Sasuke I believe had a 4/5 in Genjutsu in the 3rd Databook, and it's funny how you're comparing his Genjutsu to A guy who controlled the Kyuubi in order to downplay It.

Sasuke is far above average in Genjutsu, but Tobi, and Itachi for example are at an even higher level. Compared to them, the best of the best, Sasuke's Genjutsu is "weak", not compared to everyone else...

Nice try though.

 

[Alastor]

What?

Boruto and Himawari don't have three whiskers, Naruto does. It became a genetic trait after their father received him, apparently someone didn't notice that it goes down by one. Naruto is Half-Uzumaki, and Boruto is 1/4, you expect him to make that many clones? He didn't even train for the technique, it came naturally as stated in the movie. So if he can do four with ease, then with training who knows what the limit is?

Go re-read the Manga on what happens when you are touched by Kurama's chakra via unprecedented means. You gain three whiskers; Naruto (via birth), and Gold and Silver brothers.

Now if you can logically explain why Naruto would not have Kurama's chakra in his body despite having whiskers than by all means, go ahead. Just don't waste my time.

Huh ? Are you now implying that 3 marks = Kurama's power but 2 Marks = Not Kurama's power ? Based on what ? If you assume that marks = Kurama's power then 3 marks would just go to show that he has more power than 2 Marks, which wouldn't even make sense in the first place because by that logic Naruto who had 3 marks should have had 6 the moment he got the Kyuubi sealed into him due to more of Kurama's power and the Kin-Gin brothers are obviously an exception due to them eating from Kurama's meat as not even fully fledged Kyuubi jin had those marks before.


And how come you feel like only acknowledging that which suits your argument as a proof of Kurama's power yet blatantly turn a blind eye on the rest and resort to calling it a biological traits even though that has never been explained anywhere (and doesn't even make sense genetically speaking). If we go by this logic then Tsunade and Nawaki should be born with at least 1-2 marks because they are Mito's grandchildren who was the first Kyuubi jinchuriki and similar to what happened to Naruto her first descendant should have also been affected by the chakra so how come neither Tsunade nor Nawaki inherited any of the whiskers ? Was Mito's womb Kyuubi-proofed or something ?

And lol, I am wasting your time ? You are the one who is making up imaginary facts about 3 marks = Kyuubi power and 2 marks = not Kyuubi power and making up flawed interpretations of why Naruto would inherited them when the descendants of other Kyuubi hosts never had them in the first place just so you could justify your wish of Naruto having Kurama's chakra at birth, something that was never mentioned anywhere in the manga and which wouldn't matter in the slightest because you literally have zero means to determine how powerful someone born from a Kyuubi host would be if they inherited imaginary Kyuubi chakra and no way at all to determine how much chakra Naruto would have and how big the difference would be between him and the canon Kyuubi base host Naruto (who was having Kyuubi chakra leaked from the seal thanks to Minato) so you only end up arguing for a featless fanfic version of Naruto that neither has canon showings nor even canon proof to support it's existence in the first place.

And I love how you keep on ignoring the fact that Sasuke's sharingan is the result of something his own body produces while Naruto's would be something justified by him being tainted by the Kyuubi in your assumptions and the result of being the Kyuubi host in canon. So if anything, it is you who should stop wasting my time with your off-topic assumptions.

 

[take it easy]

Fail. Kakashi easily put two Anbu Black ops under Sharingan Genjutsu for days, and Zabuza, Itachi, and Sasuke easily got Orochimaru, Madara and Tobi got the Kyuubi, etc.




Ad Hominem - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance.



Without ANY external power sources, Sasuke>Naruto.

And what ? Look at Sakura who had best chakra control among team 7 and one of the best chakra control in part 1. She easily break out of A-rank Kabutos genjutsu due to her great CC. As was showed even having Kyuubi who spoiled his CC Naruto was able to learn SM for which you need very good CC, so i dont see any reason why Naruto without Kurama cant break out of genjutsu.

 

[BLAZE]

And what ? Look at Sakura who had best chakra control among team 7 and one of the best chakra control in part 1. She easily break out of A-rank Kabutos genjutsu due to her great CC. As was showed even having Kyuubi who spoiled his CC Naruto was able to learn SM for which you need very good CC, so i dont see any reason why Naruto without Kurama cant break out of genjutsu.

Due to her CC :lol where is the scan it was becoz of cc or is it another fanfic passed as fact in NDS
it was becoz she was genjutsu type stated by kakashi

 

[shadowcb]

This whole time I was saying Na ruto Vs Sasuke without ANY external power sources , the Sharingan is Sasuke's natural power...

He easily defeats Naruto with Genjutsu, Naruto's only counter was the Kyuubi. It was never said that Minato was more of a natural prodigy than Sasuke, based on facts/logic, Sasuke was more of one than him.


It was said that it usually takes learning and element months/years to do.

You must be registered for see links

Sasuke learned his first element, Fire Style, at 7/8, and his second, Lightning Style at 13, and mastered them both by 16.

Minato only knew Wind Style, which we atleast know he attempted to use for one Jutsu, the RasenShuriken.



I was never talking about Sasuke without his Sharingan.

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By power I meant chakra. By holding back I meant not using all his power to end Naruto quickly.

That's fine if you are talking about Sasuke with the sharingan. He still isn't defeating Naruto with a genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu skills are not at Itachi's level and Naruto force Itachi to change tactics when he attacked him with a genjutsu.

There is still a different between 30% power and 30% chakra. There is nothing showing us that Itachi was holding back as you claim. He tried to defeat Naruto in a genjutsu and he was forced to attack Naruto's emotions to stop him from defeating the genjutsu.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

And what ? Look at Sakura who had best chakra control among team 7 and one of the best chakra control in part 1. She easily break out of A-rank Kabutos genjutsu due to her great CC. As was showed even having Kyuubi who spoiled his CC Naruto was able to learn SM for which you need very good CC, so i dont see any reason why Naruto without Kurama cant break out of genjutsu.

The stronger the Genjutsu, the harder it is too break, obviously the characters I mentioned have good chakra control, yet were still caught in Genjutsu.

There's also the possibility that Naruto could be trapped in a Genjutsu without noticing, like Danzo, who had several Sharingan, and decades of experience, or Zabuza.

That's fine if you are talking about Sasuke with the sharingan. He still isn't defeating Naruto with a genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu skills are not at Itachi's level and Naruto force Itachi to change tactics when he attacked him with a genjutsu.

There is still a different between 30% power and 30% chakra. There is nothing showing us that Itachi was holding back as you claim. He tried to defeat Naruto in a genjutsu and he was forced to attack Naruto's emotions to stop him from defeating the genjutsu.

Overall Itachi is greater at Genjutsu than Sasuke. But the level of Genjutsu that Itachi used on Naruto isn't greater than what we have seen Sasuke do.

He put multiple people to sleep with his Genjutsu, controlled Manda, whilst being low on chakra, put Danzo in Genjutsu without him even noticing despite having several Sharingan, and broke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi which is obviously on a higher level than his finger Genjutsu.

 

[BLAZE]

That's fine if you are talking about Sasuke with the sharingan. He still isn't defeating Naruto with a genjutsu. Sasuke's genjutsu skills are not at Itachi's level and Naruto force Itachi to change tactics when he attacked him with a genjutsu.

Lovely has Naruto ever broken a genjutsu without Kurama or even with it
Couldn't even break finger genjutsu and still wanking over his Genjutsu skill :lol

 

[shadowcb]

Lovely has Naruto ever broken a genjutsu without Kurama or even with it
Couldn't even break finger genjutsu and still wanking over his Genjutsu skill :lol

I'm not wanking over Naruto's genjutsu skills. I'm showing what happened when one of the best genjutsu users placed him in a genjutsu. The results were Itachi had to attack Naruto's emotions to stop him form breaking the jutsu. There is a difference between Naruto being unable to defeat it because doesn't possess the skill and Naruto being unable to defeat it because he becomes distracted and stop trying to defeat it.

- Itachi placed Naruto in a genjutsu -

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- Naruto remembers his training to defeat genjutsu -

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- Naruto relies on his training and starts defeating the genjutsu -

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- Itachi comments on Naruto's growth and switch his strategies -

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to

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- Itachi's new plan involves attacking Naruto's emotions -

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to

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- because Naruto didn't stay calm and rely on his training he couldn't defeat the genjutsu -

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Alot of people missed this because all they cared about was the fact Naruto didn't defeat it. Not the reasons why he didn't defeat it.

PS: Sasuke didn't even bother to try to use a genjutsu against Naruto in their final battle, I wonder why.

 

[BLAZE]

PS: Sasuke didn't even bother to try to use a genjutsu against Naruto in their final battle, I wonder why.

Don't f@3king care about the genjutsu he couldn't break and u still wank it :lol

Wonder why Naruto didn't use Fuuton rasengan ever again,Wonder why Sasuke didn't use Chidori nagashi or chidor sharp spear in his later battles and wonder why the idiocy of wondering is coming when we are debating about feats Oh wait becoz u don't have one :lol

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

I'm not wanking over Naruto's genjutsu skills. I'm showing what happened when one of the best genjutsu users placed him in a genjutsu. The results were Itachi had to attack Naruto's emotions to stop him form breaking the jutsu. There is a difference between Naruto being unable to defeat it because doesn't possess the skill and Naruto being unable to defeat it because he becomes distracted and stop trying to defeat it.

- Itachi placed Naruto in a genjutsu -

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- Naruto remembers his training to defeat genjutsu -

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- Naruto relies on his training and starts defeating the genjutsu -

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- Itachi comments on Naruto's growth and switch his strategies -

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to

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- Itachi's new plan involves attacking Naruto's emotions -

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to

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- because Naruto didn't stay calm and rely on his training he couldn't defeat the genjutsu -

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PS: Sasuke didn't even bother to try to use a genjutsu against Naruto in their final battle, I wonder why.

@bold

Plot/ the Kyuubi, lol Genjutsu logically should have worked, but that's a whole other discussion.

Itachi didn't use Sharingan Genjutsu on Naruto.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Sai had his eyes closed. Sasuke I believe had a 4/5 in Genjutsu in the 3rd Databook, and it's funny how you're comparing his Genjutsu to A guy who controlled the Kyuubi in order to downplay It.

Sasuke is far above average in Genjutsu, but Tobi, and Itachi for example are at an even higher level. Compared to them, the best of the best, Sasuke's Genjutsu is "weak", not compared to everyone else...

Nice try though.

What's funny is you denying cannon when the databook states it requires visual contact, and the manga supports it as well. Since as I'll repeat no genjutsu from a sharingan besides Koto works without eye contact. Every time Itachi, Obito, Kakashi, Madara, & Sasuke used sharingan genjutsu and or Tsukuyomi in Itachi's case. Eye contact had to be made.

Not downplaying his feats. Obito's feats are obviously far better and was superior before Sasuke gained Hagoromo's chakra.

 

[shadowcb]

Don't f@3king care about the genjutsu he couldn't break and u still wank it :lol

Wonder why Naruto didn't use Fuuton rasengan ever again,Wonder why Sasuke didn't use Chidori nagashi or chidor sharp spear in hs later battles and wonder why the idiocy of wondering is coming when we are debating about feats Oh wait becoz u don't have one :lol

I'm posting facts showing why Naruto couldn't defeat it and why he possess skills in genjutsu and you don't care about the facts. That's the problem with so many people on this forum, like you, they don't care about facts.

Proving evidence that support Naruto's skills in genjutsu is not wanking.

Pathetic.

 

[take it easy]

The stronger the Genjutsu, the harder it is too break, obviously the characters I mentioned have good chakra control, yet were still caught in Genjutsu.

There's also the possibility that Naruto could be trapped in a Genjutsu without noticing, like Danzo, who had several Sharingan, and decades of experience, or Zabuza.



Overall Itachi is greater at Genjutsu than Sasuke. But the level of Genjutsu that Itachi used on Naruto isn't greater than what we have seen Sasuke do.

He put multiple people to sleep with his Genjutsu, controlled Manda, whilst being low on chakra, put Danzo in Genjutsu without him even noticing despite having several Sharingan, and broke out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi which is obviously on a higher level than his finger Genjutsu.

Yes, they have good CC control but it doesnt mean than their CC would be equal or is equal to Kyuubiless Naruto CC. Sasuke broke out of Tsukuyomi only because he had Sharingan not because he had good CC.

 

[shadowcb]

@bold

Plot/ the Kyuubi, lol Genjutsu logically should have worked, but that's a whole other discussion.

Itachi didn't use Sharingan Genjutsu on Naruto.

You are right, Itachi didn't use a sharingan genjutsu, but he is still more skilled in genjutsu than Sasuke. That's what's important.

 

[BLAZE]

You are right, Itachi didn't use a sharingan genjutsu, but he is still more skilled in genjutsu than Sasuke. That's what's important.

And i will love to see one scan of naruto breaking genjusu becoz thats important too

I'm posting facts showing why Naruto couldn't defeat it and why he possess skills in genjutsu and you don't care about the facts. That's the problem with so many people on this forum, like you, they don't care about facts.

No u r posting Bull$#!t excuses and thats the problem with NDS trolls like u farts out Bull$#!t and pass them as facts

Proving evidence that support Naruto's skills in genjutsu is not wanking.

No u just sugarcoated the thing that naruto couldn't even defeat finger genjutsu from 30% Itachi clone let alone Sharingan genjutsu

Pathetic.

Yes you are trying Sugracoat scenario when u don't have any evidence

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

What's funny is you denying cannon when the databook states it requires visual contact, and the manga supports it as well. Since as I'll repeat no genjutsu from a sharingan besides Koto works without eye contact. Every time Itachi, Obito, Kakashi, Madara, & Sasuke used sharingan genjutsu and or Tsukuyomi in Itachi's case. Eye contact had to be made.

Not downplaying his feats. Obito's feats are obviously far better and was superior before Sasuke gained Hagoromo's chakra.

You are denying Sai had his eyes closed despite not seeing his pupils at all....

At that point, the only people above Sasuke in Genjutsu were Shisui, Itachi, Tobi, and Madara. Sasuke doesn't need to be as good as them, or better to get Naruto in a Genjutsu...so bringing up Tobi Is irrelevant.

And from the page you posted, Tobi himself notes how Sasuke caught Danzo, a Hokage level Shinobi, with decades of experience, and several Sharingan, in Genjutsu without Danzo even noticing ... yet Naruto notices, and breaks free of it fast enough for It not to be a problem at all?

Come on.

You are right, Itachi didn't use a sharingan genjutsu, but he is still more skilled in genjutsu than Sasuke. That's what's important.

As I Said earlier, the level that a finger Genjutsu is on is lower than Sharingan Genjutsu, and take note at what I said to Chaosmark.

Yes, they have good CC control but it doesnt mean than their CC would be equal or is equal to Kyuubiless Naruto CC. Sasuke broke out of Tsukuyomi only because he had Sharingan not because he had good CC.

Read what I said above.