Sasuke vs Neji (Chunin exam finals)

[neosmith500]

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That isn't happening. Chidori is too fast and too powerful for Sasuke's attack to be knocked off course regardless of it spinning. Your only argument is "it spins" as if that is enough to prove your case.

I could even continue arguing that Rotation doesn't stop, but that argument obviously isn't going anywhere so I'll leave it for anyone else or until I find a new way to explain why it would.

Never said it wasn't nor did i insinuate that it would get knocked off course when it hits. I said when it pierces from the palm to the wrist is when the spinning motion of the unbreached portions come into play..

All i want is explanations , so yea.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

Sasuke's chidori peirces rotation and impale Neji, Sasuke's sharingan would ensure he hits Neji at the right moment and that's GG.

 

[KidGamer65]

Never said it wasn't nor did i insinuate that it would get knocked off course when it hits. I said when it pierces from the palm to the wrist is when the spinning motion of the unbreached portions come into play..

You keep on saying this yet you are not being clear with your viewpoint for whatever reason. You say it won't be knocked off course, meaning it'll pierce him and Rotation will stop. But then you start talking about the bold.

What happens when a Chidori pierces Rotation operating on the assumption that it does not stop? Answer the question fully and stop dancing around the outcome. You're making it way too difficult to properly address your argument.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Not even sure if Neji can activate rotation before he gets blitzed. Sasuke was able to outspeed Gaara's sand numerous time, something that even weightless Lee found difficult.

 

[neosmith500]

You keep on saying this yet you are not being clear with your viewpoint for whatever reason. You say it won't be knocked off course, meaning it'll pierce him and Rotation will stop. But then you start talking about the bold.

What happens when a Chidori pierces Rotation operating on the assumption that it does not stop? Answer the question fully and stop dancing around the outcome. You're making it way too difficult to properly address your argument.

I said it wont get knocked off course when it hits since Chidori is strong enough to pierce it. But my question was wat happends to unbreached portions of still spinning Chakra when Sasuke's uncovered wrist gets within the dome?
Rotation doesn't have the power to block Chidori means that it cant divert Sasuke's unprotected wrist when his palm already pierced it and is already within the dome?. The distance in which the unbreached portion of Chakra needs to cover would be inches from Sasuke's wrist/arm and would still be following its course.

This is why i asked you to imagine a spinning dome of Water , u easily stab the dome with a Chidori , but wat happends when ur palm makes it through the small hole u created and ur unprotected wrist is outside the rotating dome? Gets swept right? and Im not saying it would stop at the wrist , just that the Chakra wouldn't stop either.
Ur palm easily pierces the dome but the force of the still spinning vortex would still be in motion simultaneously so why wouldn't ur arm be swept into it?

Using Neji's arm as a reference , Sasuke's palm needs to make a bit of travel before touching Neji's heart all while going through a still rotating Chakra after initially making a hand sized hole through it.

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[KidGamer65]

I said it wont get knocked off course when it hits since Chidori is strong enough to pierce it. But my question was wat happends to unbreached portions of still spinning Chakra when Sasuke's uncovered wrist gets within the dome?
Rotation doesn't have the power to block Chidori means that it cant divert Sasuke's unprotected wrist when his palm already pierced it and is already within the dome?. The distance in which the unbreached portion of Chakra needs to cover would be inches from Sasuke's wrist/arm and would still be following its course.

This is why i asked you to imagine a spinning dome of Water , u easily stab the dome with a Chidori , but wat happends when ur palm makes it through the small hole u created and ur unprotected wrist is outside the rotating dome? Gets swept right? and Im not saying it would stop at the wrist , just that the Chakra wouldn't stop either.
Ur palm easily pierces the dome but the force of the still spinning vortex would still be in motion simultaneously so why wouldn't ur arm be swept into it?

Using Neji's arm as a reference , Sasuke's palm needs to make a bit of travel before touching Neji's heart all while going through a still rotating Chakra after initially making a hand sized hole through it.

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So basically you are saying the trajectory is shifted, which is what I asked you if you were saying. I never said anything about it happening when Chidori made contact with Rotation.

Your dome example is flawed because the only reason Rotation can continue is if Neji spins. There is nothing supporting an argument that the distance Neji can spin in between Rotation being breached and Neji being hit is large enough for someone as fast as Sasuke to have his blow redirected signifiicantly let alone enough to let Neji get off without being hit.

This argument could continue for days and it wouldn’t change until someone gave evidence for why what you are saying will happen. It spinning is not enough, otherwise by that logic no piercing attack would get through Rotation and hit its target.

 

[neosmith500]

So basically you are saying the trajectory is shifted, which is what I asked you if you were saying. I never said anything about it happening when Chidori made contact with Rotation.

Your dome example is flawed because the only reason Rotation can continue is if Neji spins. There is nothing supporting an argument that the distance Neji can spin in between Rotation being breached and Neji being hit is large enough for someone as fast as Sasuke to have his blow redirected signifiicantly let alone enough to let Neji get off without being hit.

This argument could continue for days and it wouldn’t change until someone gave evidence for why what you are saying will happen. It spinning is not enough, otherwise by that logic no piercing attack would get through Rotation and hit its target.

If i simply said the trajectory is shifted , then it wouldn't make sense to me which i why i tried to explained my thoughts and questions in my first post.

-The Chakra would still be in motion in correlation to Neji's start-up spin. Palm pierces Rotation and moves towards a spinning Neji , in between that timing the Chakra would still be spinning and turning inches away from Sasuke's wrist inbetween Sasuke's breach and him piercing directly through Neji since Neji himself is spinning fast and the Chakra would be caught already turning to the left due to the start-up spin.


Neji even turning a hairs width means the Rotation will twist with him. The distance Neji can spin in between Rotation being breached and Neji being hit doesn't need to be large when the unbreached sections would be inches away from his wrist.

 

[KidGamer65]

If i simply said the trajectory is shifted , then it wouldn't make sense to me which i why i tried to explained my thoughts and questions in my first post.

-The Chakra would still be in motion in correlation to Neji's start-up spin. Palm pierces Rotation and moves towards a spinning Neji , in between that timing the Chakra would still be spinning and turning inches away from Sasuke's wrist inbetween Sasuke's breach and him piercing directly through Neji since Neji himself is spinning fast and the Chakra would be caught already turning to the left due to the start-up spin.


Neji even turning a hairs width means the Rotation will twist with him.

You’re doing nothing but describing what would happen theoretically without proving it in actuality. It’s clear that Neji will keep rotating, but the question is will he be moving fast enough and with enough force to prevent Chidori from landing or mess up Sasukes attack? Nothing supports that. Not when Rotation itself can’t provide any resistance against the tech as an equal rev of similar size failed.

 

[neosmith500]

You’re doing nothing but describing what would happen theoretically without proving it in actuality. It’s clear that Neji will keep rotating, but the question is will he be moving fast enough and with enough force to prevent Chidori from landing or mess up Sasukes attack? Nothing supports that. Not when Rotation itself can’t provide any resistance against the tech as an equal rev of similar size failed.

How else am i to think of possible outcomes without describing my own input with logical discussion? these two things have never clashed , my word isn't the word of law here , I cant be sure of how it would play in actuality.

-No way to guage how fast he spins , but its clear that the Chakra will keep rotating inches away from Sasuke's wrist. Same Chakra would still be in motion from Neji's start-up spin , so i dont see why the unbreached still rotating Chakra wouldn't be able to turn inches around in relation to Sasuke going inches forward after the breach , when Sasuke has to cover more than inches in relation.

 

[KidGamer65]

How else am i to think of possible outcomes without describing my own input with logical discussion? these two things have never clashed , my word isn't the word of law here , I cant be sure of how it would play in actuality.

-No way to guage how fast he spins , but its clear that the Chakra will keep rotating inches away from Sasuke's wrist. Same Chakra would still be in motion from Neji's start-up spin , so i dont see why the unbreached still rotating Chakra wouldn't be able to turn inches around in relation to Sasuke going inches forward after the breach , when Sasuke has to cover more than inches in relation.

Come on now. The bold is literally what people have been dealing with for years. That isn’t an excuse for insufficient evidence and it never will be. There’s nothing to support Neji being able to deflect Chidori with the little time he has before and after he gets hit. All you have done is shown that it’ll still rotate which is irrelevant to the second piece of this assertion. If penetrated with enough speed and force Neji gets hit. Chidori has shown that. There is absolutely no way anyone can sit here and argue that because Rotation spins Sasuke won’t reach. Chidori easily tore through Gaaras sand and Sasukes top speed charge far surpasses Nejis speed.

 

[neosmith500]

Come on now. The bold is literally what people have been dealing with for years. That isn’t an excuse for insufficient evidence and it never will be. There’s nothing to support Neji being able to deflect Chidori with the little time he has before and after he gets hit. All you have done is shown that it’ll still rotate which is irrelevant to the second piece of this assertion. If penetrated with enough speed and force Neji gets hit. Chidori has shown that. There is absolutely no way anyone can sit here and argue that because Rotation spins Sasuke won’t reach. Chidori easily tore through Gaaras sand and Sasukes top speed charge far surpasses Nejis speed.

I know that which is why i said im simply using discussion here , its not like wat im saying isn't logical here bro.
Its funny because compared to the bold , how much time would it take for the unbreached area of already spinning Chakra to cover inches around in relation. Inbetween Sasuke's palm piercing it , then his wrist going through it , followed by his elbow , the unbreached Chakra wouldn't even move an inch beyond the point that was breached ?

 

[KidGamer65]

I know that which is why i said im simply using discussion here , its not like wat im saying isn't logical here bro.
Its funny because compared to the bold , how much time would it take for the unbreached area of already spinning Chakra to cover inches around in relation. Inbetween Sasuke's palm piercing it , then his wrist going through it , followed by his elbow , the unbreached Chakra wouldn't even move an inch beyond the point that was breached ?

1. Sasuke at top speed >> Neji at top speed.

2. The distance Neji has to rotate to offset Chidori completely is NOT that much larger than the distance Chidori has to travel to hit Neji.

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The distance between the edge of Rotation and Neji's body is at best a meter and a half, except that isn't the distance Chidori has to cross.

Neji's arms extend further than his body when he rotates. That's even less distance.

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Chidori covers Sasuke's hand and wrist, so until he reaches in past that point any talk of Rotation pushing him away is irrelevant.

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He already tore through a similar sized shield with no resistance whatsoever. That combined with the fact that his movement speed>>Neji's movement speed whether he's spinning or not (Neji could not complete a full rotation in the time Naruto ran and hit him) and Rotation literally does nothing of use here and it shouldn't be debatable 4 pages in. Neji isn't going to rotate with enough force, after having his rotation pierced no less, to knock away Sasuke's arm and Chidori before something faster than him can cross a distance equivalent to a meter and land a hit.


So no, your argument isn't based on anything concrete or even remotely solid. And while we're at it let's go back to how Rotation will or will not stop. When you poke a top of a fidget spinner with any kind of outside force that is strong enough they will stop to an abrupt halt.

Use anything to touch a spinning top even slightly and it gets pushed back , but clearly rotation works a tad different. Sasuke is hitting it with enough power to pierce it at a focused spot , that hit only affects that specific portion of Chakra he stabs , it doesn't stop Neji's explusion of Chakra and his spin which is wat makes the Chakra revolve.

You tried to refute this by saying "it doesn't affect Neji directly so it doesn't stop him from spinning" which is obviously false. The chakra is connected to Neji's body and has mass. If something is stopping the chakra from moving Neji himself will stop spinning. The center of a fidget spinner is what keeps it spinning after the initial force has been applied, yet if I apply enough force to the edge of the spinner it will stop. Same thing goes with a top.

You don't see me trying to push a point I can't properly support with Manga panels so there is no reason for you or anyone else to do it. Chidori rips through Rotation and pierces Neji nor does Neji stand a chance of winning this match. Whatever amount of distance it manages to offset the Chidori when operating under the assumption that the Rotation doesn't stop does not change this fact. Asking questions (that you are supposed to answer, not me), not making your stance clear all the while not providing tangible evidence for your claims isn't going to end this argument in your favor.

 

[KidGamer65]

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And stop using this image incorrectly. That x is where Naruto's chakra rammed into Neji's chakra. Naruto's fists hadn't touched Rotation in that scan. His fist is clearly shown to be nowhere near the edge of Neji's Rotation. The X is where any attack that hits Rotation would start at.

 

[To Whatever]

Neji wins.

 

[Imperious]

Spoiler

He had 2-Tomoe first of all.

Second of all this match has been done to death and it's already been established that Sasuke wins as not a single Neji supporter can give a valid reason for why he takes this match.

Portrayal/Hype: Sasuke overcame Gaara, the monster of the current gen. Naruto fought on par with Neji and defeated him, yet still envied the same Sasuke.

Feats: Sasuke's raw speed is above Neji's at this point as he can outspeed Gaara's Sand. Sasuke's reflexes are above Neji's at this point due to being faster or as fast as him in his normal state with having Sharingan as an added bonus for reading opponent's movements. Chidori>Gaara's Sand=Rotation. Sasuke's speed>Enhanced Naruto's speed, which is the speed that forced Neji into an incomplete Rotation.

Sasuke is faster, stronger and has the destructive power to pierce Rotation.

So the match ends with Sasuke charging in and piercing Rotation with Chidori and skewering Neji's heart. Mid-high diff at worst for him. Based on how he did Gaara, Neji is not giving him a harder fight no matter how you try and play it.

CS2 Sasuke>>CS1 3-T Sasuke>3-T Sasuke>SRA Neji>CE Sasuke>Every other version of Neji>Every other version of Sasuke

-- c'est une blague -- Spoiler You're kidding, right? Chidori is not a feasible response to Rotation. First of all, Rotation was said to be stronger than Gaara's own absolute defense You must be registered for see links . But that's beside the point. Let's take a look at what happens when Sasuke pierces through a defense similar to Rotation You must be registered for see links . What a surprise. His arm pierces through, but the rest of his body stops, and barely even pierces Gaara's shoulder. Might be hard to believe, but Sasuke's body is not made out of Chidori. Mind you, Neji's Rotation is notably wider than the defense that Gaara used in the CE You must be registered for see links You must be registered for see links . Sasuke's hand is not reaching Neji before the rest of his body is blown away by Rotation. But besides that, CE Sasuke's versality in applying Chidori is extremely poor, his usage taking too much preparation and being too linear You must be registered for see links . Maybe Sasuke was just trying to gain speed to make his Chidori more effective, but whatever the case his Chidori is easily avoidable. You must be kidding. Naruto did not fight on par with Neji. Neji completely manhandled several shadow clones at once You must be registered for see links You must be registered for see links You must be registered for see links . He managed to weave through more than a dozen of Naruto's clones without even being touched You must be registered for see links . To correct you, he fought on par with, and could have beaten, KN0 Naruto. He even parried KN0 Naruto with equal strength You must be registered for see links , which is a notable feat, considering KN0 Naruto was strong enough to hold back an enormous summoning jutsu You must be registered for see links . An enemy with overwhelming speed is not at all a problem for Neji, as his Byakugan was barely able to keep up with KN0 Naruto yet still reacted accordingly You must be registered for see links You must be registered for see links . Neji would have won, had Naruto not resorted to cheap tricks. Not that Chunin Sasuke is faster than Neji anyway You must be registered for see links . Neji speed > Lee without weights. Lastly, even Kakashi admits that Neji's Byakugan is superior to Sasuke's AND that Sasuke can't beat Neji You must be registered for see links You must be registered for see links . Even Lee, after having observed Sasuke's fight prior, still concludes that Neji is the strongest Genin, even fully aware of his own capabilities You must be registered for see links . -- Fini -- ​

​

 

[Red Slayer]

Neji mid diffs, this debate over years ago.. only few idiots left who think that Sasuke wins.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're kidding, right? Chidori is not a feasible response to Rotation. First of all, Rotation was said to be stronger than Gaara's own absolute defense

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. But that's beside the point. Let's take a look at what happens when Sasuke pierces through a defense similar to Rotation

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. What a surprise. His arm pierces through, but the rest of his body stops, and barely even pierces Gaara's shoulder. Might be hard to believe, but Sasuke's body is not made out of Chidori. Mind you, Neji's Rotation is notably wider than the defense that Gaara used in the CE

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. Sasuke's hand is not reaching Neji before the rest of his body is blown away by Rotation. But besides that, CE Sasuke's versality in applying Chidori is extremely poor, his usage taking too much preparation and being too linear

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. Maybe Sasuke was just trying to gain speed to make his Chidori more effective, but whatever the case his Chidori is easily avoidable.

I posted the unbiased databook that states they are on par. I don't care what Tenten's input on the matter is when the author of this Manga said they are on par. The rest is irrelevant because you clearly have no idea how Rotation works nor do you have any idea how to accurately explain what transpired on panel so allow me to hold your hand like I have done for many others in the past.

Neji's Rotation is not noticeably wider than Gaara's Sand Shield. That's you picking the two scans that best depict your flawed interpretation. Gotta laugh at your attempt at scaling by drawing lines on two different pictures with two different viewpoints both drawn to different scales. :lol

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The distance between Naruto's clone on the right and Neji in the center isn't even equivalent to the length of Naruto's own body. It's barely longer than the distance his arm stretches.

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Once again, the distance between the center of that clash where their chakras collided and Neji's arm doesn't even exist as Neji's arms are at the edge of Rotation. The center of his body is only an arm's length away. Yet somehow you actually expect me to take this argument of Sasuke not being able to pierce deep enough seriously? :lol What? Yeah no. Stop it, please.

What makes this argument even worse than it already sounds is the fact that Sasuke still had plenty of arm length left when he pierced the sand and hit Gaara. So pray tell how the size difference (That doesn't exist) between their shields will translate from Sasuke having almost his entire bicep unexposed to him getting his body blown away? I'll wait.

The rest is another irrelevant claim. It being linear doesn't mean Neji can dodge it from close range. Neji failed to dodge Naruto and Naruto is not faster than Lee or Sasuke. So he gets hit and he dies and there is no debating it no matter how many of you people quote me with disagreements.

You must be kidding. Naruto did not fight on par with Neji. Neji completely manhandled several shadow clones at once

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. He managed to weave through more than a dozen of Naruto's clones without even being touched

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. To correct you, he fought on par with, and could have beaten, KN0 Naruto. He even parried KN0 Naruto with equal strength

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, which is a notable feat, considering KN0 Naruto was strong enough to hold back an enormous summoning jutsu

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. An enemy with overwhelming speed is not at all a problem for Neji, as his Byakugan was barely able to keep up with KN0 Naruto yet still reacted accordingly

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. Neji would have won, had Naruto not resorted to cheap tricks. Not that Chunin Sasuke is faster than Neji anyway

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. Neji speed > Lee without weights.

KN0 Naruto is Naruto but in an enhanced form. So I'll just pretend like you didn't point out the obvious from here on out and continue addressing the post.

-Sasuke clashed w/ B yet B is far stronger than him physically. Neji is canonically not even stronger than Base Naruto and Base Sasuke physically let alone on par KN0. Nice try though.

-That wasn't KN0 Naruto. That was Naruto shrouded in Kurama's chakra. He doesn't enter a full fledged KN0 until his eyes and whiskers start to change shape like they did against Sasuke at the Valley of the End.

-Neji being able to react to CE Naruto is irrelevant unless you are going to post the speed feats that this version of Naruto has that surpass outspeeding Gaara's Sand. That and being able to react doesn't address any of the arguments presented so far as no one said Neji would get blitzed.

-I'd also implore you to read the Manga and find me a scan of Neji outspeeding Weightless Lee, because Kishimoto gave Lee the higher speed stat. :lol So that ends that debate there. What was stated is that Lee's speed alone wasn't enough to defeat Neji, not that Neji is faster than him.

And since I know you'll post "but since Lee's speed wasn't enough, then it means Neji easily counters Sasuke here" I'll just address it now.

That's shit logic. Lee uses Taijutsu only. Sasuke copied his movements, his speed and has Sharingan along with Katons and most importantly CHIDORI.

Lastly, even Kakashi admits that Neji's Byakugan is superior to Sasuke's AND that Sasuke can't beat Neji

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. Even Lee, after having observed Sasuke's fight prior, still concludes that Neji is the strongest Genin, even fully aware of his own capabilities

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.[/SPOILER]
-- Fini --

So basically you have scans proving that CE Prelims Neji is superior to Prelims Sasuke without Chidori or Kakashi's training? Good job. Now prove to the class that CE Finals Neji is superior to CE Finals Sasuke. Don't try to talk to me about portrayal. The same Naruto that Neji failed to defeat got jealous watching Sasuke's power against the strongest Genin, and no, it is not Neji if you'd simply read the Manga properly. :lol Gaara was an unstoppable force Lee's claims are irrelevant when he knows nothing about Gaara's power. What's even funnier is that he got his ass beat by that same Gaara after the latter displayed his power in that match for the first time.

1. 5G Lee>Prelims Neji as implied and almost blatantly stated in the Manga.
2. Gaara overcame that same Lee. (Gaara would SHIT on Prelims Neji badly)
3. Gaara was the one hyped as the monster of the new gen. Not Neji.
4. Sasuke had the clear and overwhelming upper hand against Gaara during their match. Gaara needs transformations to pressure this version of Sasuke and even then he's inferior and only put Sasuke on the ropes because the latter's Curse Mark paralyzed him.

Portrayal, Feats and Hype put this version of Sasuke comfortably above this version of Neji. He loses and only idiots like this:

Neji mid diffs, this debate over years ago.. only few idiots left who think that Sasuke wins.

are still arguing otherwise. Especially with arguments like these. The same rehashed argumentation I've seen from every single person who has ever supported Neji on this forum.

 

[KidGamer65]

And here I thought we moved past this trashy wank.

 

[DrProof]

And here I thought we moved past this trashy wank.

You're going to run yourself ragged if you keep debating Hyuga fans. Trust me.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

Bruh, Sasuke did this to Shukaku enhanced Gaara, he would rip through Neji with minimal effort.

Spoiler

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