Lightning Release
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Sasuke seems like he should be stronger than Naruto in Gaiden (NOT A SASUKE FAP)
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Kirin The Dragon Sage
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Madara never stronger than Hashirama. He need to cheats (stolen power) to counter him.
The Demon Hawk
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I did address the panel you provided. The thing is, at this point, it isn't relevant. Why? Well because Sasuke was just as exhausted and low on chakra as Naruto was. Just because Kurama said Naruto was low on stamina and chakra, doesn't mean Sasuke was high in that regard. Kurama just told Naruto about him, he didn't compare or deny the same thing about Sasuke. So how can you draw a comparison between Naruto and Sasuke from that panel? Sasuke was actually in a similar situation.
And Kurama also noticed that Sasuke had been weakened as well. Here's also a counter panel for you:
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Let's talk about something that's really important to realize. We all know that Naruto started fighting long before Sasuke in the war, so obviously he had a longer involvement in his record. But he basically used Kurama's chakra for for the major part for almost everything, using his chakra only when Kurama was preparing its chakra. He was constantly shifting between his own chakra (integrated graphics) and Kurama's chakra (dedicated graphics). So his chakra hardly took any toll. He did use his chakra quite a bit but not as much as he would've used if Kurama weren't there. And while Sasuke did participate in the war lesser, he used his own chakra (integrated graphics, no dedicated graphics available) the entire time. So Sasuke doesn't really get any benefit over Naruto because Sasuke's lesser involvement in the war was cancelled out by Naruto's usage of Kurama. The amount of chakra Naruto used in his longer participation in the war is equal to the amount of chakra Sasuke used during his shorter involvement (because both used their integrated graphics just as much so it took similar toll, as an example).
Exhaustion can be used as an argument though because although both used same amount of chakra (same usage of integrated graphics), Naruto's longer participation in the war despite using Kurama's chakra (dedicated graphics) was more exhausting definitely, so he had lesser stamina (lower battery life). A slight edge here for Sasuke but nothing significant. He did get sufficient time to rest and heal too to keep on going. He was sitting getting healed by Sakura (plugged into a charger) when Sasuke arrived.
Therefore,
Naruto's chakra = Sasuke's chakra (before receiving Sage's chakra)
After receiving Sage's chakra:
Naruto + Yang Sage chakra = Sasuke + Yin Sage chakra (proportional increase)
And most of all, Naruto's main source of chakra and power before half death, Yang Kurama, whom Naruto used for the most part in the war was replaced by Yin Kurama, who was within Minato and didn't experience any significant loss in chakra. When Naruto received Yin Kurama, it was almost full on chakra. So, his main source of chakra and power is full on everything. And as long as Kurama has chakra, Naruto is not going to run out of chakra, since Kurama's chakra is also Naruto's chakra. So Naruto has a huge advantage over Sasuke in this regard.
Therefore,
Naruto + Yang Sage chakra + Kurama's chakra >>> Sasuke + Yin Sage chakra (Not hard to observe that Naruto has a tremendous advantage)
And don't compare Sasuke's EMS to Kurama. Sasuke's EMS only grants his powers, and he has to use them with his own chakra. Whereas Kurama gives Naruto its powers AND a huge amount of chakra to use them and also Naruto's own powers. Sasuke's EMS evens out Kurama's powers. What will even out Kurama's huge chakra endowment for Naruto? EMS doesn't give him more chakra.
It doesn't even anything out. As I already explained and proved above, having Kurama as a source of chakra is already an advantage for Naruto, even if it is just 10% or 5% (50% is massive). And it's unfair because Sasuke has to rely on his own chakra for everything while Kurama gives Naruto all the chakra he wants to utilize his and Kurama's powers for. And also formulate strategies for him, collect natural energy for him. But that's a different topic so we'll keep it out of the way.
Don't you think it's a bit unfair as well?
Sasuke = Sasuke's chakra
Naruto = Naruto + Kurama's chakra
Naruto has more chakra naturally but that's fair and square, because its his own thing, not someone elses. And Sasuke equals that in other ways i.e. more powerful chakra. What's unfair is not that Naruto has more chakra AND also has Kurama's chakra. But just having Kurama's chakra is unfair regardless of his own chakra. Whether his own reserves are higher or lower than Sasuke is irrelevant.
You're welcome! And yeah, since you've realized and mentioned things most people deny or ignore (even if everything isn't correct), you deserve it as well...
The Demon Hawk
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Crap man! You're unbelievably stupid...
@underlined What do you mean by "inexperienced SM Naruto"? There is no such thing as "inexperienced SM Naruto". Naruto's power ups are immediate and maxed out right from the start. He can stretch out a little with them as time progresses, but it still doesn't significantly take away from anything. They don't gradually get stronger like Sasuke's powers. Naruto could do everything with Sage Mode right from the start. Whereas, it took MS Sasuke quite a long time to complete the Susanoo to max out the MS potential (I'm bringing Sasuke for comparison to give you an idea why "inexperienced SM Naruto" is a stupid term). So being new to using SM is a useless excuse in Naruto's defense.
@blue Actually, Naruto was lucky that he was fighting 6 bodies (Paths of Pain). Because 1 body (Nagato) could have been catastrophic for him. Ignorant people like you only go by numbers. We've already see how well that "1 body" handled KCM Naruto, Eight Tails Bee and MS Itachi.
@bold Smoked? You're... well, forget it. Let me give you a little insight of Naruto vs Pain fight:
1. Nagato was using the Six Paths of Pain. This means that his chakra was being distributed evenly among every Path, so every Path received 1/6 of Nagato's chakra, which means that Nagato could only use 1/6 of the total power of his jutsus from each Path using the Six Paths of Pain.
2. On top of that, Nagato was channeling his chakra to the Six Paths of Pain, so the strength and speed of his jutsus was considerably decreased.
3. On top of using 1/6 of total power which is further weakened by decreased strength and speed of jutsus, Nagato had already used so much chakra in his battle against Konoha. He fought so many shinobis including Kakashi, not to mention the almighty Shinra Tensei which destroyed the entire village. All this activity prior to his fight with Naruto consumed a huge amount of chakra, so he didn't start his fight with full chakra level.
4. On top of using 1/6 of total power which is further weakened by decreased strength and speed of jutsus, and having used so much chakra before and slight exhaustion, and even on top of losing all the other Paths including the regeneration Path as the fight continued, he easily fought SM Naruto and effortlessly pinned him down using only the Deva Path.
5. Even after all the aforementioned reasons, and fighting with only the Deva Path, he could have easily killed SM Naruto, only if he wanted to. Since Naruto was a jinchuuriki, he couldn't kill Naruto. So, Naruto had a tremendous advantage due to this restriction.
CONCLUSION (TILL NOW)
Deva Path only (with an immensely depleted chakra reserves and considerably exhausted, and the strength and speed of his jutsus decreased, and even having no intention of killing Naruto) > SM Naruto
Deva Path only (with an immensely depleted chakra reserves and considerably exhausted, and the strength and speed of his jutsus decreased, and even having no intention of killing Naruto) > SM Naruto
6. So now we have a severely weakened, exhausted and low on chakra reserves Pain (Deva Path only, mind you) who can't use the maximum strength and speed of his jutsus, and has no intention of killing Naruto, even after that he was able to counter Naruto's six tailed form, full of rage, and fought on par with him.
7. EVEN AFTER ALL THOSE DISADVANTAGES ON PAIN'S SIDE AND Naruto's sudden burst of power thanks to Kurama, Pain was able to dominate Naruto using Chibaku Tensei.
CONCLUSION (TILL NOW)
Deva Path ONLY (weakened, exhausted and low on chakra, decreased strength and speed of jutsus, plus no intention of killing Naruto) > SM Naruto + Six Tailed form (enraged)
Deva Path ONLY (weakened, exhausted and low on chakra, decreased strength and speed of jutsus, plus no intention of killing Naruto) > SM Naruto + Six Tailed form (enraged)
8. Even after ALL THAT, Naruto was completely owned by Pain. So he had to push further and unleash the eight tailed form, only then he was able to fight back Pain with the upper hand.
CONCLUSION (TILL NOW)
SM Naruto + EIGHT Tailed form (enraged) > Deva Path ONLY (weakened, exhausted and low on chakra, decreased strength and speed of jutsus, plus no intention of killing Naruto)
SM Naruto + EIGHT Tailed form (enraged) > Deva Path ONLY (weakened, exhausted and low on chakra, decreased strength and speed of jutsus, plus no intention of killing Naruto)
8. Even after all that, Naruto completely ran out of Sage Mode while Nagato still had enough chakra to revive so many of Konoha's shinobis. Even then if Nagato wished to destroy Naruto, he could have easily done that, unless Kurama intervened again to save Naruto's ass.
And that's what you call "smoking"? Haha.
@red F***ed up conclusion!!! BTW, Sasuke's Rinnegan is arguably stronger than the dual variant Rinnegan.
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UzumakiRyu
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inexperience is actually the correct term because that comes with time using the power you don't gain years of experience with a power having learned it within a few days, shows your own stupidity if you cannot even comprehend this simple fact.
Naruto's sage mode grew stronger with time and he later combines it with RSM later towards the end so no Naruto's SM wasn't maxed from the start don't be so quick to make such assumptions thanks.
Holy God
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At the time, Naruto was indeed slightly stronger, but the topic of discussion is the power of the Rinnegan. You're using the Six Paths Of Pain as a figure that represents the eye's power, but it's invalid due to the fact split paths used together are weaker than in one body. You're comparing a Rinnegan user to SM Naruto, when in fact Nagato, who's only tool is the Rinnegan, easily defeated two hosts.
ARGUS
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Naruto with half kyuubi defeated/stalemated a sasuke with rinnegan and the aid of all the bijuu
Now naruto has full kyuubi, instead of half and the best sasuke has to offer would be better mastery of the rinnegan
As that is not making up for the hug gap that was already there between RSM naruto and Rinnegan sasuke
Current Naruto beats him, mid diff at the very most
Now naruto has full kyuubi, instead of half and the best sasuke has to offer would be better mastery of the rinnegan
As that is not making up for the hug gap that was already there between RSM naruto and Rinnegan sasuke
Current Naruto beats him, mid diff at the very most
Dantee
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Sasuke used the bijuu for his lack of experience with the rinnegan. Sasuke with 6paths and mastered rinne would solo Naruto mid diff now. Narutos techs can't give him any trouble since he can absorb almost everything he throws at him.
lucario14
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Hey man long time.
I'm going to have to disagree with the underlined. Nobody at this point can assume that full mastery of the rinnegan cannot make up the power difference between 1/2 kurama and full kurama. @The Demon Hawk makes a very good point about how Naruto's abilities were maxed out from the start of his power power up (as soon as he finished sage training, he went all out against Pain and didn't hold back, same with when he fought Madara and Kaguya after meeting the sage except for the flying part). However manga scans clearly show Sasuke had room for improvement during his battle with Madara, Kaguya and even in the final stages in his battle against Naruto.
Also I didn't see any huge gap between RSM Naruto and Sharinnegan Sasuke. Are you talking about how Sasuke needed the power of the 8 bijuu to fight Naruto? Before he did they were
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. He took in the power of the bijuu and he started wrecking Naruto. It wasn't until Kurama collected an incredible amount of natural energy that Naruto managed to equalize Indra's arrow. So power of the 8 bijuu with PS would be roughly equal to the amount of natural energy collected and sent to Naruto in addition to Naruto's Ashura avatar.Naruto wins. He is too powerful for Sasuke.
OP, I have to disagree. Naruto has a lot of room for growth. The biggest different between Naruto power and Sasuke power is Sasuke's gives him mostly jutsu and some ability, while Naruto's power gives him mostly ability and some jutsu. A jutsu is nothing but an ability used in a specific way. So Naruto growth will come from mastering his use of his ability and learning to create jutsu and/or apply it.
An example of that is his TSB. He can learn all the KKG element jutsu (without needing the tail beast) because he can create the TSB. The TSB is the combination of all the elements/ying-yang. The manga stated to use KKG elements the user simultaneously creates the necessary elements and then combine them together. So if he combine all the elements/ying-yang together he can combine any combination of elements/ying-yang he wants. Add his ability to shape chakra at any level and the results is a Naruto with near unlimited potential.
There more:
- He can learn high level sealing jutsu. He is an Uzumaki.
- He can learn more S/T. Pa frog taught him a S/T jutsu before he fought Pain.
- He still haven't full master all of the tail beast powers. That including learning the jutsu the other jinchuriki used. (tails beast RS is not a mastery of his tail beast powers that a mastery of his rasengan.)
- He has access to the Hokage scroll
Naruto is the Last showed huge improvements.
The Last improvements/feats:
- Base mode Naruto can create a FRS with one hand, throw it, and control it's trajectory. He can create any rasengan or variation using one hand
- Rasengan blast (that's the new Rasengan he used at the end of the movie. It shoots out like a blast of energy, similar to how the beast ball can be shot out in a wave form)
- Chakra shield (the jutsu Naruto used to block Toneri's strongest attack at the end of their battle. Naruto focus chakra on his hand to create a shield.)
- New seal Naruto used to release the 9 tails from his body and the 9 tails can use chakra mode
- Unknown jutsu he used to remove the chakra ball from Hinata (it appears to be yin-yang based since he was able to remove the charka ball from Hinata without injuring her)
- Increased speed (base mode Naruto blitz an enemy and he has learned how to fighting continuously at high speed)
- Improvement in strength
- Improvement in taijutsu/agility (base mode Naruto kicked ass in taijutsu throughout the entire movie. He easily defeat puppets and Toneri using taijutsu)
- gather more natural energy faster
People are wrong about Sasuke being about to easily counter Naruto's jutsu with absorption jutsu. Absorption jutsu has one huge weakens, the absorption speed. Absorption jutsu CAN'T absorb an large amounts of chakra in an instant -
That's the reason Madara decided not to try to evade Naruto LRS instead of absorbing it -
That's the reason Kaguya couldn't all of Naruto tail beast RS -
PS: to all the people stating Naruto powers were maxed out. IF that was true then Naruto would have used the TSB to erase all of Sasuke's jutsu, since Sasuke can't used senjutsu.
OP, I have to disagree. Naruto has a lot of room for growth. The biggest different between Naruto power and Sasuke power is Sasuke's gives him mostly jutsu and some ability, while Naruto's power gives him mostly ability and some jutsu. A jutsu is nothing but an ability used in a specific way. So Naruto growth will come from mastering his use of his ability and learning to create jutsu and/or apply it.
An example of that is his TSB. He can learn all the KKG element jutsu (without needing the tail beast) because he can create the TSB. The TSB is the combination of all the elements/ying-yang. The manga stated to use KKG elements the user simultaneously creates the necessary elements and then combine them together. So if he combine all the elements/ying-yang together he can combine any combination of elements/ying-yang he wants. Add his ability to shape chakra at any level and the results is a Naruto with near unlimited potential.
There more:
- He can learn high level sealing jutsu. He is an Uzumaki.
- He can learn more S/T. Pa frog taught him a S/T jutsu before he fought Pain.
- He still haven't full master all of the tail beast powers. That including learning the jutsu the other jinchuriki used. (tails beast RS is not a mastery of his tail beast powers that a mastery of his rasengan.)
- He has access to the Hokage scroll
Naruto is the Last showed huge improvements.
The Last improvements/feats:
- Base mode Naruto can create a FRS with one hand, throw it, and control it's trajectory. He can create any rasengan or variation using one hand
- Rasengan blast (that's the new Rasengan he used at the end of the movie. It shoots out like a blast of energy, similar to how the beast ball can be shot out in a wave form)
- Chakra shield (the jutsu Naruto used to block Toneri's strongest attack at the end of their battle. Naruto focus chakra on his hand to create a shield.)
- New seal Naruto used to release the 9 tails from his body and the 9 tails can use chakra mode
- Unknown jutsu he used to remove the chakra ball from Hinata (it appears to be yin-yang based since he was able to remove the charka ball from Hinata without injuring her)
- Increased speed (base mode Naruto blitz an enemy and he has learned how to fighting continuously at high speed)
- Improvement in strength
- Improvement in taijutsu/agility (base mode Naruto kicked ass in taijutsu throughout the entire movie. He easily defeat puppets and Toneri using taijutsu)
- gather more natural energy faster
People are wrong about Sasuke being about to easily counter Naruto's jutsu with absorption jutsu. Absorption jutsu has one huge weakens, the absorption speed. Absorption jutsu CAN'T absorb an large amounts of chakra in an instant -
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to
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AS It can be seen in the scene Kaguya absorbed the jutsu, but it took a several seconds to absorb it all. So if an absorption jutsu user tries to absorb a large power jutsu which has a very fast attack frequency the user will be damaged before that can absorb all of the chakra. That's the reason Madara decided not to try to evade Naruto LRS instead of absorbing it -
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That's the reason Kaguya couldn't all of Naruto tail beast RS -
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to
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PS: to all the people stating Naruto powers were maxed out. IF that was true then Naruto would have used the TSB to erase all of Sasuke's jutsu, since Sasuke can't used senjutsu.
The Demon Hawk
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You only replied to the part of your choice. How childish...
I did say Naruto could stretch out a bit with his powers as time progressed. Did I deny those things? But that doesn't take away from the power. He gains "almost" full power of his techniques. Whereas for Sasuke, it takes a long time to max out is powers. You're so f***ing stupid to neglect the difference between those two forms of power ups. "Inexperienced" is the wrong term since we're talking about power levels, not battle tactics and its usage because that's on the user, not the technique. Naruto could utilize complete potential of SM right from the start. Whereas Sasuke manifested the Susanoo subsequently at different stages. AT LEAST, TRY TO UNDERSTAND SOME THINGS.
Combining SM with BM (not RSM you fool, RSM is already a form of Sage Mode, or you mean combine RM with SM, even that isn't totally correct) wasn't a characteristic ability of SM, it has nothing do do with SM's potential. It was all thanks to Kurama that Naruto was able to do that.
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Kagustuchi
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Wrong translation on Kurama's statement. He really says that it's just impossible to absorb and use Jutsu at the same time. Which lines up with the original entry for Preta Path as well as what Madara says earlier in the manga.
Merkel
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Yeah the fact of Naruto receiving full Kurama somehow went over my head my bad and also this thread is also assuming Sasuke has both of his arms which obviously isn't currently possible because well, he doesn't have both of his arms.
adeshina365
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Nice to see that some Naruto fans are starting to use their brains.
Sasuke > your fav
Sasuke > your fav
I find it funny that the only way OP and other can make Sasuke stronger than Naruto is by limited Naruto's growth. Ever since they have fought there have been several thread about this very topic. These threads allow Sasuke to fully master his rinnegan power, but won't allow Naruto to full master RSM.
Naruto hasn't reached his full potential. There is still a lot of room for growth. All people need to do to understand that is watch Naruto the Last.
IE:
- Base mode Naruto can create a FRS with one hand, throw it, and control it's trajectory.
- Naruto created a new justu the "Rasengan blast" (that's the new Rasengan he used at the end of the movie. It shoots out like a blast of energy, similar to how the beast ball can be shot out in a wave form)
- Chakra shield (the jutsu Naruto used to block Toneri's strongest attack at the end of their battle. Naruto focus chakra on his hand to create a shield.)
- New seal Naruto created/learned to release the 9 tails from his body and the 9 tails can use chakra mode
- Unknown jutsu he used to remove the chakra ball from Hinata (it appears to be yin-yang based since he was able to remove the charka ball from Hinata without injuring her)
Naruto hasn't reached his full potential. There is still a lot of room for growth. All people need to do to understand that is watch Naruto the Last.
IE:
- Base mode Naruto can create a FRS with one hand, throw it, and control it's trajectory.
- Naruto created a new justu the "Rasengan blast" (that's the new Rasengan he used at the end of the movie. It shoots out like a blast of energy, similar to how the beast ball can be shot out in a wave form)
- Chakra shield (the jutsu Naruto used to block Toneri's strongest attack at the end of their battle. Naruto focus chakra on his hand to create a shield.)
- New seal Naruto created/learned to release the 9 tails from his body and the 9 tails can use chakra mode
- Unknown jutsu he used to remove the chakra ball from Hinata (it appears to be yin-yang based since he was able to remove the charka ball from Hinata without injuring her)