umm actutally, Kaguya and Orochimaru are the number one example. Kaguya can only get stronger by taking chakra from other. Orochimaru have to take over a stronger body add dna to himself to get stronger.
I don't need to. You make the claim, you bring the proof. And there is no evidence of your claim, whereas the entirety of the manga is evidence of my claim.
I'll propose this to you again, since you couldn't comprehend it last time.
Udon learns an immortality jutsu. Now his muscles can't grow? Why? The answer: There is no reason. Correlation does not equal causation.
If I were Sasuke, I wouldn't want to be immortal. Being immortal meaning you can't get stronger without any outside help. You pretty much shut off your limitless Poteintal.
Instead of becoming immortal, He should just focus on his spiritual energy. Increase the quality! the higher the quality the longer he will live and grow stronger!
Being immortal is the best position for you to learn something new to make yourself more stronger and unrivaled.
Being immortal will not limit your chance to hone your skill
Yes by being immortal no people can automatically/magically gain new strength out of nowhere that they previously lack but they can build the strength from there bcus being immortal is just you cant and wont die from natural cause or without specific killing method if there exist.
Being immortal is the best position for you to learn something new to make yourself more stronger and unrivaled.
Being immortal will not limit your chance to hone your skill
Yes by being immortal no people can automatically/magically gain new strength out of nowhere that they previously lack but they can build the strength from there bcus being immortal is just you cant and wont die from natural cause or without specific killing method if there exist.
It appears that he believes Immortality means invulnerability to damage, which in turn means muscle growth cannot occur as muscles need to tear and heal in order to grow.
But, once again, this theory is completely unfounded and moronic at best.
Being immortal is the best position for you to learn something new to make yourself more stronger and unrivaled.
Being immortal will not limit your chance to hone your skill
Yes by being immortal no people can automatically/magically gain new strength out of nowhere that they previously lack but they can build the strength from there bcus being immortal is just you cant and wont die from natural cause or without specific killing method if there exist.
It appears that he believes Immortality means invulnerability to damage, which in turn means muscle growth cannot occur as muscles need to tear and heal in order to grow.
But, once again, this theory is completely unfounded and moronic at best.
Smh. You folks are missing the point. Being immortal stop your inner growth. This is why kaguya never looked a day older after eating the fruit.
Yes you can learn new things after being immortal. But your own "inner growth" is done. If your inner growth can still go while you're immortal, then you're not immortal. You just have a high regeneration ability.
So if you want to get stronger after becoming immortal, you need an outside source of energy to make your own "inner growth" going.
It is a very simple concept.
Immortal = 4k resolution.
1. you can decrease the resolution down to 1080p. Then increase it back up to 4k.
2. But you can't increase pass 4k resolution.
3. You can increase the quality of the 4k resolution, but adding effects to it such as HDR or some type of rendering feature.(This is adding an outside source of chakra)
Please tell me you understand now. Inuyasha. Full metal alchemist and there are much more other anime that walk the same path for immortality.
You can't die, even if you're damaged in battle, But you can't get any more "inner growth" without an outside source of energy. This why many villains just end up aborsbing other people's energy to increase their own energy or make their "inner growth" work!
Edit: Hell, Black goku said it best. He refused immortality because he won't get stronger. Gaining immortality stop your personal "inner-energy" growth.
Smh. You folks are missing the point. Being immortal stop your inner growth. This is why kaguya never looked a day older after eating the fruit.
Yes you can learn new things after being immortal. But your own "inner growth" is done. If your inner growth can still go while you're immortal, then you're not immortal. You just have a high regeneration ability.
So if you want to get stronger after becoming immortal, you need an outside source of energy to make your own "inner growth" going.
It is a very simple concept.
Immortal = 4k resolution.
1. you can decrease the resolution down to 1080p. Then increase it back up to 4k.
2. But you can't increase pass 4k resolution.
3. You can increase the quality of the 4k resolution, but adding effects to it such as HDR or some type of rendering feature.(This is adding an outside source of chakra)
Please tell me you understand now. Inuyasha. Full metal alchemist and there are much more other anime that walk the same path for immortality.
You can't die, even if you're damaged in battle, But you can't get any more "inner growth" without an outside source of energy. This why many villains just end up aborsbing other people's energy to increase their own energy or make their "inner growth" work!
Edit: Hell, Black goku said it best. He refused immortality because he won't get stronger. Gaining immortality stop your personal "inner-energy" growth.
Why immortality held your inner growth? It is false logic. You can still build your inner body or your actual body strength like normal.
You still can build up your muscle and it strength.
If your have untapped potential or hidden power like Uchiha, Immortality will not held you from bring out the said potential.
Immortality never set your body to certain level and control your body limit or your body standard. I dont know from where you get the idea. It just you unable to die that easily and lives forever.
The limit of you body after you gain immortality is same as before you gained it.
If one boy by a chance is immortal but he is not automatically stronger than a normal boy or his body cant be damage at all. If the boy wanted to have both qualities(be strong and invincible) he need to get it by training and practicing. That means putting a work on his inner body (physically and spiritually). Immortality doesn't mean you're invincible/indestructible(cant be damage) automatically, although in certain case they can work together.
I give you one example:-
Oro is known to be immortal in certain sense. But he was not indestructible and he knows that. He can be kill. He seek outside power(Uchiha power) to get stronger although he is immortal bcus his body have a limit. But the limit here is not like what you purpose/suggest in here.
Hashirama have his limit on how high he can go with his own power. If he want more power he need to seek it from outside source e.g Juubi etc
Saiyan also have their own limit.
Until the limit is achieve, people with immortality still can develops his inner body.
Immortality also have its levels(fictional concept):-
Introduction
Immortality is the term given to people who cannot die from natural means, whether this be due to longevity, regeneration, or other means.
Types
1: Longevity: Characters gifted with this type of immortality cannot die from natural causes, such as old age or conventional illness, but can be killed by unnatural causes.
Examples: Galactus (Marvel Comics), Ajimu Najimi (Medaka Box)
2: Immortality without regeneration: Characters with this degree of immortality can survive a high degree of physical damage, though they cannot regenerate from it either.
Examples: Voldemort (Harry Potter), Hidan (Naruto)
3: Immortality via regeneration: Characters with this type of immortality can simply regenerate damage, though the usefulness of this type depends on the degree of regeneration.
Examples: Alucard (Hellsing), Majin Buu (Dragon Ball), Hourai Immortals (Touhou Project)
4: Immortality via godhood, or protection from a deity: A character that was either granted immortality by a god, or is immortal because of its hierarchical position due to godhood, so that its divine immortality is less a power, and more treated as a consequence of its state of being as a deity.
Examples: Future Zamasu (Dragon Ball), Zeref Dragneel (Fairy Tail), Juggernaut (Marvel Comics)
5: Perfect Immortality: Complete and utter inability to ever die. This is typically reserved for questionable omnipotents and cosmic characters who are strong enough that dying isn't exactly high on their list of worries, even if they were capable of it.
Examples: Azathoth (Cthulhu Mythos), Kami Tenchi (Tenchi Muyo!), The Creator (Umineko no Naku Koro ni)
6: Parasitic: The person attains a sort of immortality by bodyhopping, transferring their soul to another body.
Examples: Teridax (Bionicle), Jason Voorhees (Friday the 13th), Orochimaru (Naruto), Darth Sidious (Star Wars Legends)
7: Undead: Self explanatory. The undead generally double up with other types of immortality, often being impossible to kill through conventional means.
Examples: Jason Voorhees (Friday the 13th), Edo Tensei zombies (Naruto)
8: Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists.
Examples: Voldemort - reliant on Horcruxes (Harry Potter), Fairies - reliant on aspects of nature (Touhou Project), AIM Burst - reliant on the Level Upper Network (To Aru Majutsu No Index), Chara - reliant on the concept it embodies (Undertale)
9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed. For example, a conceptual being doesn't die even if its body, soul, etc will be erased from existence.
Examples: Tokiha Misa and other characters from Notch, Bard, SCP-682
10: Meta-Immortality: Entities that are not alive or dead in a conventional sense, standing outside the ordinary laws of reality, temporality, and dimensionality (of any number). If it is possible to destroy such a character, it can only be accomplished by a being of a similar or higher existence.
Kaguya declares that she is immortal and that's true but she still can gets severe injury and then later on she regenerate back. But you told us, someone who still can grow back their inner body cant be call as immortal but Kaguya and Kishi disagree with you.
Regeneration is one of immortal's trait. With regeneration you can keep yourself alive unless the killing method can subdue your immortality and cancel it completely.
And Kaguya already that powerful from the start after she ate chakra fruit and what she looking for was her former chakra. And any inner development is already been achieved by her. If she want to get beyond her limit, she needs to eat another chakra fruit(probably)
I saw you used Black Goku as example. Do you know that Black Goku was using or author tells his concept of immortality via Black Goku. That example alone is not enough and cant help your case bcus Immortality in fiction have it levels(state above).
-You will not ages, it bcus immortality keep your body young but that is the work of anti-aging property that immortality bestow. It will not stop your growth from a baby to adult.
Why immortality held your inner growth? It is false logic. You can still build your inner body or your actual body strength like normal.
You still can build up your muscle and it strength.
If your have untapped potential or hidden power like Uchiha, Immortality will not held you from bring out the said potential.
Immortality never set your body to certain level and control your body limit or your body standard. I dont know from where you get the idea. It just you unable to die that easily and lives forever.
The limit of you body after you gain immortality is same as before you gained it.
If one boy by a chance is immortal but he is not automatically stronger than a normal boy or his body cant be damage at all. If the boy wanted to have both qualities(be strong and invincible) he need to get it by training and practicing. That means putting a work on his inner body (physically and spiritually). Immortality doesn't mean you're invincible/indestructible(cant be damage) automatically, although in certain case they can work together.
I give you one example:-
Oro is known to be immortal in certain sense. But he was not indestructible and he knows that. He can be kill. He seek outside power(Uchiha power) to get stronger although he is immortal bcus his body have a limit. But the limit here is not like what you purpose/suggest in here.
Hashirama have his limit on how high he can go with his own power. If he want more power he need to seek it from outside source e.g Juubi etc
Saiyan also have their own limit.
Until the limit is achieve, people with immortality still can develops his inner body.
Immortality also have its levels(fictional concept):-
Back to Orochimaru, even though he is immortal, he still can be damage,
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But he have the capability to stay alive bcus the jutsu he developed and used. But Oro never cared to train his body and attain invincibility.
Kaguya also is immortal but this can happen to her,
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And you said this,
Kaguya declares that she is immortal and that's true but she still can gets severe injury and then later on she regenerate back. But you told us, someone who still can grow back their inner body cant be call as immortal but Kaguya and Kishi disagree with you.
Regeneration is one of immortal's trait. With regeneration you can keep yourself alive unless the killing method can subdue your immortality and cancel it completely.
And Kaguya already that powerful from the start after she ate chakra fruit and what she looking for was her former chakra. And any inner development is already been achieved by her. If she want to get beyond her limit, she needs to eat another chakra fruit(probably)
I saw you used Black Goku as example. Do you know that Black Goku was using or author tells his concept of immortality via Black Goku. That example alone is not enough and cant help your case bcus Immortality in fiction have it levels(state above).
-You will not ages, it bcus immortality keep your body young but that is the work of anti-aging property that immortality bestow. It will not stop your growth from a baby to adult.
All those characters you just listed, None of them had their own "inner growth" go up after achieving any type of immortality. They simply discovered new skills. None of them character had gotten stronger(energy wise) without feeding off some outside source of energy.
That's the point I'm making.
I never once said that being immortal mean you can't get damage. So I don't know why you guys kept bringing that up.
"inner growth" = evolution. I'm not talking about the ability to recover from damage. I'm talking about the ability to grow stronger on your own.
edit: I assume we're talking about the "immortality" that kaguya got. The one where she doesn't age one bit. the one where, She can grow back an arm. The one where her human form is not her true form no longer! The one where she can't diger deeper to bring out more power without sucking up the chakra out of the human race.
All those characters you just listed, None of them had their own "inner growth" go up after achieving any type of immortality. They simply discovered new skills. None of them character had gotten stronger(energy wise) without feeding off some outside source of energy.
How do you know they never tried and most of the characters mentioned has achieved their own limit after gained Immortality or never cared to train their body and inner self but takes easy way to get stronger by using other people power, outside power, stealing power or got blessed by Gods.
And not bcus Immortality limit them but their own preference.
And large quantity of them have very high self limit from the start(when they first being created) - God, Gods, Abstract entities etc
People have short memory I see
You post this but...
I never once said that being immortal mean you can't get damage. So I don't know why you guys kept bringing that up.
You only can regenerate after you suffer from a damage. And my immortal being suffered multitude of damage in their life time but they can regenerate back. Regeneration=inner Growth.
According to you if inner growth can still go, then you're not immortal.
Please dude be clear with your mind.
"inner growth" = evolution. I'm not talking about the ability to recover from damage. I'm talking about the ability to grow stronger on your own.
Who said they cant grow stronger on their own after being immortal. Most of immortality power that any fictional characters gained came with other set of power that make them stronger without need to train their own power. e.g Ajimu Najimi, Kaminogi, JJ Madara, Zeno, Juha Bach, Zeref, Galactus etc. But they have a choice.
How do you know they never tried and most of the characters mentioned has achieved their own limit after gained Immortality or never cared to train their body and inner self but takes easy way to get stronger by using other people power, outside power, stealing power or got blessed by Gods.
And not bcus Immortality limit them but their own preference.
And large quantity of them have very high self limit from the start(when they first being created) - God, Gods, Abstract entities etc
People have short memory I see
You post this but...
You said this,
Who said they cant grow stronger on their own after being immortal. Most of immortality power that any fictional characters gained came with other set of power that make them stronger without need to train their own power. e.g Ajimu Najimi, Kaminogi, JJ Madara, Zeno, Juha Bach, Zeref, Galactus etc. But they have a choice.
I can see how you took that as " can't get damage" but you have get damage in order for "regeneration" ability to work.
How about we make it easier by just talking about Naruto world version of "immortality ".
JJ Madara is not immortality, since he clearly said it out of his own mouth that he nearly died from mighty guy's kick.
Kaguya is immortal.
So check out Kaguya.
1. haven't age a bit.
2. high speed regeneration.
3. Can't die....Well nobody haven't tried to kill her.
4. Pretty much lost her human form, which ain't her true form no longer.
5. haven't once shown the ability to tap into her inner self for more power like all other ninjas had been doing throughout the series.
6. When putting out more chakra, she used an outside source of chakra(the human race) to supply her own
So that is all we know about "Immortality" in the naruto manga.
With that being known, Do you see any limitation of the "immortality" power?
edit: One major thing I noticed about Characters who claim "immortality" in NV, They always want more chakra or they feel like their "immortality" will "fade away". interesting..
If she can die, her immortality have a limit. But I think its not easy to kill her with simple attack when Naruto's Bijuu FRS couldnt kill her. Yeah she is immortal.
4. Pretty much lost her human form, which ain't her true form no longer.
Like I said above, her immortality came with other set of power that makes her strong. Very strong that this power makes her inner body power pale in comparison. I tell you if Kaguya train her inner power for 1,000,000 years even, she still not able to match the power she gets from CF
Why need to train if you have CF power
6. When putting out more chakra, she used an outside source of chakra(the human race) to supply her own
I dont know the reason why she absorb IT people chakra when she as a Juubi can absorb NE to replenish.
So that is all we know about "Immortality" in the naruto manga.
With that being known, Do you see any limitation of the "immortality" power?
edit: One major thing I noticed about Characters who claim "immortality" in NV, They always want more chakra or they feel like their "immortality" will "fade away". interesting..
-So far I dont see any limit on Kaguya own immortality. She achieve Perfect Immortality level.
-Hidan - Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists. I think he is still alive till this day. But he can die even if Jashin still alive.
For me Hidan's immortality have a weakness that is malnutrition.
-Orochimaru - Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists. If all his curse marks are destroy, he will die forever.
To tell you certain characters have limit on their immortality bcus it is not perfect immortality. Thats why they feel like that.
Yes from Madz's words, he clearly not immortal at that time until he absorb Shinju.
True
She takes time to regenerate. I dont know why when Tsunade can regenerate faster than her. But yeah she can regenerate back.
If she can die, his immortality have a limit. But I think its not easy to kill her with simple attack when Naruto's Bijuu FRS couldnt kill her. Yeah she is immortal.
She still have her human form. But that's not important.
Like I said above, her immortality came with other set of power that makes her strong. Very strong that this power makes her inner body power pale in comparison. I tell you if Kaguya train her inner power for 1,000,000 years even, she still not able to match the power she gets from CF
Why need to train if you have CF power
I dont know the reason why she absorb IT people chakra when she as a Juubi can absorb NE to replenish.
-So far I dont see any limit on Kaguya own immortality. She achieve Perfect Immortality level.
-Hidan - Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists. I think he is still alive till this day. But he can die even if Jashin still alive, from malnutrition.
Or for me Hidan's immortality have a weakness that is malnutrition.
-Orochimaru - Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists. If all his curse mark is destroy, he will die forever.
I don't know about you. But to me, I believe with training, Sasuke, madara, hell, even high level hyuga shinobi could achieve a power to match the CF. Won't be as dense as the power from the CF, but it would be very high quality. I choose this route, because that is the result of a lot of characters from several anime when they focus on their training for a lifetime and forget everything else.(sensui from yu yu hakusho, achieved sacred(holy) energy, netero from hxh pretty much became the fastest hands user after spending years and years on training to break his limitiation.)
In all the anime, manga, comic, i had read, Every characters with immortality somehow just hit a brick wall when trying to reach new heights. Because of that, I always see "immortality" as blinding you from seeing your own "end game"(a better term to replace "inner growth) power.
So for this thread, I was simply saying Sasuke would be better off achieving his "end game" power than gaining "immortality". But you guys are claiming that that gaining "immortality" will not stop the user from achieving his "end game" power. If that's the case, well, fine, Immortality it is.
I don't know about you. But to me, I believe with training, Sasuke, madara, hell, even high level hyuga shinobi could achieve a power to match the CF. Won't be as dense as the power from the CF, but it would be very high quality. I choose this route, because that is the result of a lot of characters from several anime when they focus on their training for a lifetime and forget everything else.(sensui from yu yu hakusho, achieved sacred(holy) energy, netero from hxh pretty much became the fastest hands user after spending years and years on training to break his limitiation.)
In all the anime, manga, comic, i had read, Every characters with immortality somehow just hit a brick wall when trying to reach new heights. Because of that, I always see "immortality" as blinding you from seeing your own "end game"(a better term to replace "inner growth) power.
So for this thread, I was simply saying Sasuke would be better off achieving his "end game" power than gaining "immortality". But you guys are claiming that that gaining "immortality" will not stop the user from achieving his "end game" power. If that's the case, well, fine, Immortality it is.
Mean lot of outside power up and asspull will involve bcus their body limit(physical and spiritual) is not that high to the level of CF. It will defeat you 'inner power' training ideology.
Maybe character like Sensui, his limit is that high and if he lazy he will never gain anything. Saiyan also have high body limit and we still dont know the end of that limit, what Super Saiyan transformation will they achieve after this.
Mean lot of outside power up and asspull will involve bcus their body limit(physical and spiritual) is not that high to the level of CF. It will defeat you 'inner power' training ideology.
Maybe character like Sensui, his limit is that high and if he lazy he will never gain anything. Saiyan also have high body limit and we still dont know the end of that limit, what Super Saiyan transformation will they achieve after this.
We got Ryu mastering the power of "nothingness". We got Akuma seeing how far he can go with "Satsui no Hado". The way I look at it, "immortality" take away that Path of discovering some unknown type of power.
We got Ryu mastering the power of "nothingness". We got Akuma seeing how far he can go with "Satsui no Hado". The way I look at it, "immortality" take away that Path of discovering some unknown type of power.
You can't just keep repeating bullshit to make it true.
This is not a fact, and is not supported by any evidence in the series. Don't even try to respond with the foolish correlation belief. You'll make yourself look like an even bigger fool.
