[Discussion] Royd and Bazz B vs Kenpachi, Unohana and Isshin
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SaadBoujane
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kotoamatsukami
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Forbidden Tale
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Hm, Royd was strong enough that Yama didn't feel difference between him and Yhwach (from 1000 years ago)
Royd was able to defeat Zaraki with no diff.
Royd is strong enough to at least fight good with Shikai Yamamoto,
Royd is strong enough to escape dead from 13 pages against Bankai Yamamoto.
Team one wins.
Royd >>>>>> Current Kenpachi >> Bankai Unohana >> Vollstandig Bazz-B >>>> Shikai Isshin
Team one wins with extrem. high diff.
Royd was able to defeat Zaraki with no diff.
Royd is strong enough to at least fight good with Shikai Yamamoto,
Royd is strong enough to escape dead from 13 pages against Bankai Yamamoto.
Team one wins.
Royd >>>>>> Current Kenpachi >> Bankai Unohana >> Vollstandig Bazz-B >>>> Shikai Isshin
Team one wins with extrem. high diff.
kotoamatsukami
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Did you just put royd over current zaraki?.. I give up...anyway team 2 rapes I don't even see royd beating unohana.
Forbidden Tale
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Shikai Unohana was multiply times more powerful than pre muken Kenpachi. Bankai Unohana is even more powerful. I do believe that
Shikai Isshin >>>>>> Shikai Unohana, but Bankai Unohana >>>> Shikai Isshin. Considering how much power bankai increase.
I'm not really sure about Bazz-B. I had high opinion on him. He was able to off set Yama's flames as well that he was only one who had guts to talk with Yhwach, on top of that Hashwalth was serious when Bazz-B confort him.
If Bazz-B took both Renji and Rukia at the same time, then I actually could see him being even stronger than Unohana.
Highest I see Bazz-B being is just slightly above Gremmy... Lowest would be botom of top tier, but even if he is botom of the top tier, he still in my opinion should be more powerful than Shikai Isshin.
Forbidden Tale
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Yama never noticed difference between Yhwach and Royd. Which mean that Royd should be little weaker than Yhwach from 1000 years ago.
Royd is at least on par with Shikai Yamamoto. Shikai Yama >> Current Zaraki.
When Zaraki escape death from Bankai Yamamoto and survive 15.000.000 degrecee that we can talk. U_U
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Shikai Isshin was stomping Shinigami Aizen who one-shotted Shunsui. I doubt Shunsui is that much weaker compared to Unohana. I view Isshin as a little stronger than any of the current captain, and that's just in his Shikai. Quite unlikely for me, but he can probably be a bit weaker than Bankai Shunsui, Bankai Ukitake and Current Kenpachi though.
Bazz B set off a small amount of flames from Yama, a casual attack. I'm pretty sure even Isshin can tank that attack without even having to set off anything.
kotoamatsukami
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Lol escapes death from bankai Yama um royd did not do that so what you saying?..an he survived the heat thanks to his blunt vene..
Anyway once royd destroys a meteor an survives space an a star explosion while holding back a lot of power like zaraki did then yea we can talk....current shikai zaraki>>>>shikai Yama...current shikai zaraki is more destructive tgan shikai yama an we don't even know shikai real ability yet.
An did you say shikai isshin>>>>> unohana, then dang is isshin strong as Yama to you or something?....we talking the first kenpachi from the strongest gotei 13 group naw you can't be.
kotoamatsukami
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First off aizen body was reaching its limits thanks to hogyoku an second, kyoraku was still alittle battle worn from his fight with starrk an aizen also use ks on kyoraku an not isshin..isshin stronger than any current captain in his shikai? alright enough with the madness kyoraku,zaraki an Byakuya would all mop the floor with shikai isshin in there strongest forms mabey even ukitake.
An lol isshin tanking an attack from Yama shikai without putting up any guard that would be a sight to see.
Forbidden Tale
Active member
No, Base Isshin was stomping Base Aizen, and I do not think that it was stomping as you say. As well that Aizen one shotted Shunsui.
I do think that Shunsui is good deal weaker than Unohana. Shikai Shunsui IMO is weaker than Ressurection Starrk. Pre Muken Kenopachi is good deal more powerful than Nnoitra. By that I do belive that Shikai Shunsui is also more powerful than Pre Muken Kenpachi, but I do not believe that difference is so much big. On the other hand, Unohana without bankai, I'm not really sure, did she even used shikai, was a lot more powerful than that version of Kenpachi. She had to near kill him numeros times just for him to become strong enough in order to force her to use bankai.
I respectfully disagree with that. Bazz-B is at least low end of top tier. But he will end being quite strogner if he beat both Renji and Rukia at the same time. Current Shikai Renji to me is comparable to Shikai Shunsui or even more powerful. I believe that Isshin will be more powerful than Bazz-B, but I don't see him in SHikai beating full powered Bazz-B.
He was able to escape East, West and South of Yama's bankai. Blut Vene is still part of his power and his power level.
When Aizen piss his pants in from of Zaraki, than we can talk. Lol
When Zaraki can destroy area much larger than Karakura town with just partial technique than we can talk. Lol
When Zaraki's attack be stated that can destroy a numbers of cities in one go, than we can talk. Lol
No, I said.... Bankai Isshin > Bankai Unohana > Shikai Isshin > Shikai Unohana > Base Isshin > Base Unohana
AizenSosuke
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First off, his reiatsu stayed as it was. It didn't matter if he was reaching his limits, tell me, what exactly changed when that happened? Nobody knows. You can't just discount everything about him just because of a little statement he made without even giving us the mechanics of what he means by it. Besides, he only reached the limits halfway their fight.
Secondly, Kyoraku had a hard time against Starrk same level of exhaustion that pre-TS Kenpachi had against Nnoitra, but still went on to fight Yammy. That should give you an idea to how much Shunsui would've still been able to do if he wasn't one-shotted.
And why do you think Aizen didn't use KS on Isshin? That's CIS. He had a reason why he didn't.
LOL at the bold part. What a sneaky way to hype Byakuya. Well, no. Byakuya was defeated by Bankai Ichigo. Ichimaru Gin was pushing Ichigo on the corner during their fight, the same Gin who wanted to kill Aizen. That should give you an idea that there still was a difference between Aizen and Gin during that time, and Isshin was stalemating the guy. By that, Shikai Isshin >>>> Bankai Byakuya.
Also, Isshin showed better feats than Kenpachi.
Can you prove that Isshin won't tank it? Or at least survive it?
How is Shunsui weaker than Resurreccion Starrk? From what I can remember, they were at least equals, maybe Shunsui is even stronger. I don't remember it clearly so you can correct me if I'm missing something. Also, you can't conclude that Kenpachi is stronger just because he's stronger than Nnoitra and Starrk is stronger than Shunsui since there's a massive difference between Starrk and Nnoitra.
I don't disagree that Bazz B is strong, tbh, I actually see him being even stronger than Shunsui, but I'm talking about his feat of off setting Yamamoto's flames. That's something that is counted as one of his main powers, even Wonderweiss was able to do the same thing but most people do not class him as stronger than most captains. From that, I can say that off-setting Yama's flames when it's your main ability is a great feat, but not one that can be used to put him on a different dimension.
kotoamatsukami
Active member
With east just dodge his sword with south just defeat the zombies they aren't even strong..west was the only real challange an he could not even get threw it...his blunt not gone help him with zaraki shikai that's a sure bet.
When aizen piss his pants in front of Yama or fake royd them yea we can talk.
Yama needs time to gather that move to destroy the city, with just partial technique? Explain,cuz tht was Yama in shikai going all out to defeat aizen..zaraki easily destroyed an attack that was going to wipe out an area bigger than karakura town..zaraki sword has no rival he don't need to be able to destroy a city just know if shikai Yama or fake royd stand in shikai zaraki way he will most likely tear threw them.
Shikai isshin not beating base unohana when she's swinging her sword around that's when she's at her best.
kotoamatsukami
Active member
We know base aizen won't lose to base isshin by that large of a margin cut the crap.
Don't compare zaraki to no one but Yama when it comes to stamina an toughness please an thank you.
CIS?..no one knows why he did not use it.
No I'm talking current Byakuya you talking an old Byakuya...an no shikai isshin won't beat that Byakuya ether...isshin showed better feats than zaraki do you read the manga must have missed zaraki vs gremmy...lol isshin don't have blunt vene so he's no tanking nothing from Yama shikai please don't talk stupid like that.
Isshin could not even activate his shikai after aizen gave him a simple slash so how he home survive ryuujin jakka?
And that's because???? You're saying that simply because you can't believe how strong he was portrayed to be. You're throwing baseless accusations now. How do we know that? Tell me. His feats suggest he can stomp Aizen like that and you're denying it simply because it doesn't agree with you.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Overestimation is a crime in debates. Pre-TS Zaraki is nowhere near Yamamoto. Zanpakutoless Yamamoto can even defeat him. Zanpakutoless Yamamoto wrecked Wonderweiss who wrecked two captain class (Vizards at that) characters with utter ease. Then, considerably damaged Aizen when he was about to go down.
I was talking about pre-skip Byakuya. Besides, what's the difference? Have you seen how stronger he's gotten ever since coming back? Not yet. He's still the same as he was pre-TS until he shows new feats that outclasses his old ones.
Do you read the manga? -______- LOL at that statement.
And no, Byakuya will get curbstomped by Isshin pre-TS. Ichimaru >> Bankai Ichigo, and Bankai Ichigo > Bankai Byakuya. And we know that Gin wanted to kill Aizen, but he didn't, which was showing that he still wasn't strong enough to do so. So, we know that Ichimaru >> Bankai Byakuya, and Aizen >> Ichimaru, we also know that Isshin > Aizen, but we can't conclude that Isshin >>> Byakuya? LOL. The fanboyism is quite annoying. And no, I was talking about the pre-TS Zaraki which you said will beat Isshin, which I found quite preposterous. Like, really? That's farcical. Sure, maybe Current Zaraki is stronger, but would I say he is possibly >>>>>> Isshin? No. At the very most, I'd only put two >s.
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His Getsuga Tensho deliberately damaged Cocoon's Aizen's face, (along with Urahara's shikai, though GT is what damaged him most) So that shows a strength feat that outclasses Shunsui's. Cocoon Aizen couldn't even be damaged by Yoruichi's onslaught with gauntlets + Urahara's high-end kidos + other attacks from the trio. Yet, Isshin's GT managed to wreck his shell or whatever that is. That feat outclasses any of Byakuya's and Shunsui's. Not sure about Current Kenpachi.
Your blut vene argument is useless. It's like saying it's the only way for defence of someone from the Bleach Verse. It's not an all-powerful ability to have. It's useful, not a be-all-end-all technique. You have to know where to limit it. You're committing a non-limit fallacy with that little statement. LOL again with the please. Don't know if you're telling me to stop or if you don't want people's opinion actually making sense to you. -.-"
Ummmm, iirc, when Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi were taken down for a while by Cocoon Aizen, it was off-paneled. Why do we assume that it was a simple slash? We don't know what happened in that duration of time therefore you can't assume the worse just to favour your argument. And Isshin did tank it, he stood up almost right after immediately and was shown that he could still fight effectively, though he didn't since Gin and Aizen were gone when he stood back up. When was it even said that he couldn't use Shikai anymore anyway? And it's not like the Sternritters tanked it either, they went away after taking the attack from Yama. Okay, so maybe I went a little far when I said he'd tank it, but I don't see him dying by a casual attack that wasn't even only aimed at one.
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Forbidden Tale
Active member
1. Not a challange?
2. Yes, Aizen already did... lol
-That's why he created Margela, in order to stop Yama.
-THat's why he stated that he will lose to zanp. alone
-That's why the only one, who Aizen wanted to kill.
-That's Aizen had that look in his eye, when nearly dead Yama, caught his leg.
Yama never full powered Ennetsu Jigoku, Margela stoped it, before it reached it full power. Where did you get that karakura town is smaller than seiretei?
Killua Zoldyck
Active member
Lets power scale here with Bazz B a bit:
Mask De Masculine took out two Low-Tier Captains Low-Mid Diff. Renji took out Mask De Masculine about Mid-Diff. Which means Renji can stomp two Low-Tier Captains, could beat Mid-Tier Captains with Mid-Diff and is generally in the High-Captain Tier. Rukia was able to beat Äs Nōdt Mid-High Diff, I class Äs Nōdt in the Mid-Captain Range power level, which puts Rukia at the top of the Mid-Captain level. Bazz B is currently pressuring both Renji (Who is going full power) and Rukia (Who is not going full power yet to our knowledge) into the defensive, and Bazz B himself might be using anywhere from 90% power (If he only has 5 Burner Fingers) to 40% of his power (If he has 10 Burner Fingers), tbh I think its the latter. Honestly, I don't see Shikai Isshin being any stronger then current Renji. Its very likely that Bazz B is even a lot stronger then Bankai Unohana, assuming he is currently beating a high tier captain and a mid tier captain together with only 40% of his power.
However I still see Team 2 winning. I can see Kenny dealing with Royd while Unohana and Isshin gang bang Bazz B. team 2 win High-Diff.
Mask De Masculine took out two Low-Tier Captains Low-Mid Diff. Renji took out Mask De Masculine about Mid-Diff. Which means Renji can stomp two Low-Tier Captains, could beat Mid-Tier Captains with Mid-Diff and is generally in the High-Captain Tier. Rukia was able to beat Äs Nōdt Mid-High Diff, I class Äs Nōdt in the Mid-Captain Range power level, which puts Rukia at the top of the Mid-Captain level. Bazz B is currently pressuring both Renji (Who is going full power) and Rukia (Who is not going full power yet to our knowledge) into the defensive, and Bazz B himself might be using anywhere from 90% power (If he only has 5 Burner Fingers) to 40% of his power (If he has 10 Burner Fingers), tbh I think its the latter. Honestly, I don't see Shikai Isshin being any stronger then current Renji. Its very likely that Bazz B is even a lot stronger then Bankai Unohana, assuming he is currently beating a high tier captain and a mid tier captain together with only 40% of his power.
However I still see Team 2 winning. I can see Kenny dealing with Royd while Unohana and Isshin gang bang Bazz B. team 2 win High-Diff.
