I will just add, that there is no way that Kensei and Rose could be just low tier captains, since both of them were at least on that level, without their masks 100 years ago, after that they mastered their Hollows and trained to fight Aizen. I think Love in TBTP stated that Kensei could one shot captain. So these two being just low tier captains, is something I would say nearly impossible.
On top of that Mask, didn't use full power to beat them. So not just that Renji defeated character who 'fodderized' two captain level fighters, he fodderised form much stronger than form he used to beat these captains. He was cheared after that by James and used Vollstandig.
I do agree with you about Bazz-B. If he can use up to 10, then he should end stronger than Unohana.
Isn't defeating two low tier captains something even pre-TS Kenpachi did? With their masks, I don't see Kensei and that other captain being that much weaker than RenjI, tbh.
I will just add, that there is no way that Kensei and Rose could be just low tier captains, since both of them were at least on that level, without their masks 100 years ago, after that they mastered their Hollows and trained to fight Aizen. I think Love in TBTP stated that Kensei could one shot captain. So these two being just low tier captains, is something I would say nearly impossible.
On top of that Mask, didn't use full power to beat them. So not just that Renji defeated character who 'fodderized' two captain level fighters, he fodderised form much stronger than form he used to beat these captains. He was cheared after that by James and used Vollstandig.
I do agree with you about Bazz-B. If he can use up to 10, then he should end stronger than Unohana.
For current Captain standards, Kensei and Rose are certainly one of the weakest. Kensei is probably the weakest Captain out of the current Captains, while Rose is like third or fourth weakest, since his Bankai actually has some Haxx to it.
I actually think that current Bazz B with just 4 Burner Fingers is around as strong as Unohana. I don't see Unohana doing any better then 4 Burner Finger Bazz B is doing against Renji + Rukia.
Isn't defeating two low tier captains something even pre-TS Kenpachi did? With their masks, I don't see Kensei and that other captain being that much weaker than RenjI, tbh.
Pre-War Komamura is by far the weakest Captain ever shown in Bleach. Tousen was around the same level as Rose. Mask destroyed Kensei and Rose Easy-Mid Diff, meanwhile Pre-TS Kenpachi beat weaker Captains High-Diff. Current Renji stomps Rose and Kensei dude, Mask beat the two easily without even using Volstandig. And Renji beat Volstandig Mask with only moderate difficulty.
Pre-War Komamura is by far the weakest Captain ever shown in Bleach. Tousen was around the same level as Rose. Mask destroyed Kensei and Rose Easy-Mid Diff, meanwhile Pre-TS Kenpachi beat weaker Captains High-Diff. Current Renji stomps Rose and Kensei dude, Mask beat the two easily without even using Volstandig. And Renji beat Volstandig Mask with only moderate difficulty.
High diff? Kenpachi was still walking around after the fight. That was a low-mid diff fight even with Tousen's hax bankai.
I'm saying that with their masks on, they would've stood a better chance against those SRs since we know that when a Shinigami goes Vizard form with bankai, they get much more destructive, but because of PIS, they didn't use that transformation. With the masks, they're both mid-high level captains. Without those vizard powers, then sure, I would agree with you that both of them aren't exactly formidable characters.
So, from that, I can conclude that Renji isn't stomping Rose and Kensei when they're both in full power like you say he would.
No, he beat Tousen Mid-Diff and he never finished his fight with Komamura, which would have made it a Mid-High Diff fight.
I'm saying that with their masks on, they would've stood a better chance against those SRs since we know that when a Shinigami goes Vizard form with bankai, they get much more destructive, but because of PIS, they didn't use that transformation. With the masks, they're both mid-high level captains. Without those vizard powers, then sure, I would agree with you that both of them aren't exactly formidable characters.
Matter of fact is, their Bankais > Masks, which is the reason why they chose to use Bankais over Masks in the first place. Using both at the same time would drain their Reiatsu like crazy, assuming they can actually do it. So in the long term, it would hardly make a difference. Let me remind you of the current Captains:
The bolded utterly rape them in feats, by no means are they even close to High-Tier Captains. Even Shinji is only a Mid-Tier Captain. Jushiro has not shown impressive feats, by hype Jushiro would also rape Kensei and Rose. Mayuri rapes them with prep, without it, he would loose. Sui Feng and Hitsugaya are around the same level of strength as Kensei and Rose, Hitsugaya being the strongest of the four. Followed by Rose, then Sui Feng and finally Kensei. With that said, Rose and Kensei are indeed Low-Tier Captains.
So, from that, I can conclude that Renji isn't stomping Rose and Kensei when they're both in full power like you say he would.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? Last time I checked, he was playing with Tousen's bankai.
Matter of fact is, their Bankais > Masks, which is the reason why they chose to use Bankais over Masks in the first place. Using both at the same time would drain their Reiatsu like crazy, assuming they can actually do it. So in the long term, it would hardly make a difference. Let me remind you of the current Captains:
The bolded utterly rape them in feats, by no means are they even close to High-Tier Captains. Even Shinji is only a Mid-Tier Captain. Jushiro has not shown impressive feats, by hype Jushiro would also rape Kensei and Rose. Mayuri rapes them with prep, without it, he would loose. Sui Feng and Hitsugaya are around the same level of strength as Kensei and Rose, Hitsugaya being the strongest of the four. Followed by Rose, then Sui Feng and finally Kensei. With that said, Rose and Kensei are indeed Low-Tier Captains.
Umm. No. This is the only time they've used Bankai before Masks. If you remember the fight against Aizen, they wore their masks first. You can't say Bankai > Masks just because they used it this time instead of using their Vizard powers which are obviously much more destructive. And yes, they can use it at the same time, that was already shown when Ichigo did the same thing on his fight against Grimmjow. I don't understand what the list is for, all I see is a list of opinions. The guy with the pink hair was already mid-tier captain level based on his feats and he was portrayed to be one of the weakest of the Visored guys.
Np he wasn't. He got hit his fair share of times, he was able to overcome it thanks to his instinct alone.
Umm. No. This is the only time they've used Bankai before Masks. If you remember the fight against Aizen, they wore their masks first. You can't say Bankai > Masks just because they used it this time instead of using their Vizard powers which are obviously much more destructive. And yes, they can use it at the same time, that was already shown when Ichigo did the same thing on his fight against Grimmjow. I don't understand what the list is for, all I see is a list of opinions. The guy with the pink hair was already mid-tier captain level based on his feats and he was portrayed to be one of the weakest of the Visored guys.
What's your point? They chose to use Bankai over using their masks against Mask De Masculine. Despite them both seeing Vice Admirals fodderized and Rose seeing Kensei fodderized. Bankai's > Hollow Masks, their respective feats dictate this as well. The list is not a list of mere opinions, its a list of opinions guided by feats. Hachigen the weakest Vizard? The guy who beat Barragan with a little help from Sui Feng? Hachigen is the strongest of the Vizards based on feats. Are you going to tell me, that Kensei/Rose are stronger then Shunsui, Kenpachi, Byakuya, Unohana, Dangai Komamura and Shinji? Fact is, Kensei and Rose have not shown any feats that would even put them in the Mid-Tier, they basically remained the same since Pre-TS while all the other Captains either got way stronger (Such as Byakuya and Kenpachi) or gained some feats (Such as Unohana). And the characters who basically stayed the same (Such as Shunsui and Shinji) where much stronger then Kensei and Rose to begin with. Unless you give me a solid argument to why Rose and Kensei at least make it into the Mid-Captain Tier, they get stomped by Renji, even if they are together.
How is Shunsui weaker than Resurreccion Starrk? From what I can remember, they were at least equals, maybe Shunsui is even stronger. I don't remember it clearly so you can correct me if I'm missing something. Also, you can't conclude that Kenpachi is stronger just because he's stronger than Nnoitra and Starrk is stronger than Shunsui since there's a massive difference between Starrk and Nnoitra.
I don't disagree that Bazz B is strong, tbh, I actually see him being even stronger than Shunsui, but I'm talking about his feat of off setting Yamamoto's flames. That's something that is counted as one of his main powers, even Wonderweiss was able to do the same thing but most people do not class him as stronger than most captains. From that, I can say that off-setting Yama's flames when it's your main ability is a great feat, but not one that can be used to put him on a different dimension.
Shunsui in the end beat Starrk, but Starrk during the time Shunsui was on ground, fought two more opponents, and before that Ukitake, Shunsui had free time from him self, had time to analyze and also when he joined fight 2nd time, he stabbed Starrk in the back.
I agree that difference is huge, I just don't see shikai Kyoraku being so much more powerful than Zaraki, like Shikai Unohana was (if Unohana was even in shikai).
I rank him (WW) as stronger than any espada, and WW couldn't off set Yamamoto's flames, by natural means, he sealed flames because he was created for that purpose, I don't say that Bazz-B is strong as yamamoto, just that what he done was quite a feat.
For current Captain standards, Kensei and Rose are certainly one of the weakest. Kensei is probably the weakest Captain out of the current Captains, while Rose is like third or fourth weakest, since his Bankai actually has some Haxx to it.
And that's because???? You're saying that simply because you can't believe how strong he was portrayed to be. You're throwing baseless accusations now. How do we know that? Tell me. His feats suggest he can stomp Aizen like that and you're denying it simply because it doesn't agree with you.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Overestimation is a crime in debates. Pre-TS Zaraki is nowhere near Yamamoto. Zanpakutoless Yamamoto can even defeat him. Zanpakutoless Yamamoto wrecked Wonderweiss who wrecked two captain class (Vizards at that) characters with utter ease. Then, considerably damaged Aizen when he was about to go down.
I was talking about pre-skip Byakuya. Besides, what's the difference? Have you seen how stronger he's gotten ever since coming back? Not yet. He's still the same as he was pre-TS until he shows new feats that outclasses his old ones.
Do you read the manga? -______- LOL at that statement.
And no, Byakuya will get curbstomped by Isshin pre-TS. Ichimaru >> Bankai Ichigo, and Bankai Ichigo > Bankai Byakuya. And we know that Gin wanted to kill Aizen, but he didn't, which was showing that he still wasn't strong enough to do so. So, we know that Ichimaru >> Bankai Byakuya, and Aizen >> Ichimaru, we also know that Isshin > Aizen, but we can't conclude that Isshin >>> Byakuya? LOL. The fanboyism is quite annoying. And no, I was talking about the pre-TS Zaraki which you said will beat Isshin, which I found quite preposterous. Like, really? That's farcical. Sure, maybe Current Zaraki is stronger, but would I say he is possibly >>>>>> Isshin? No. At the very most, I'd only put two >s.
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His Getsuga Tensho deliberately damaged Cocoon's Aizen's face, (along with Urahara's shikai, though GT is what damaged him most) So that shows a strength feat that outclasses Shunsui's. Cocoon Aizen couldn't even be damaged by Yoruichi's onslaught with gauntlets + Urahara's high-end kidos + other attacks from the trio. Yet, Isshin's GT managed to wreck his shell or whatever that is. That feat outclasses any of Byakuya's and Shunsui's. Not sure about Current Kenpachi.
Your blut vene argument is useless. It's like saying it's the only way for defence of someone from the Bleach Verse. It's not an all-powerful ability to have. It's useful, not a be-all-end-all technique. You have to know where to limit it. You're committing a non-limit fallacy with that little statement. LOL again with the please. Don't know if you're telling me to stop or if you don't want people's opinion actually making sense to you. -.-"
Ummmm, iirc, when Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi were taken down for a while by Cocoon Aizen, it was off-paneled. Why do we assume that it was a simple slash? We don't know what happened in that duration of time therefore you can't assume the worse just to favour your argument. And Isshin did tank it, he stood up almost right after immediately and was shown that he could still fight effectively, though he didn't since Gin and Aizen were gone when he stood back up. When was it even said that he couldn't use Shikai anymore anyway? And it's not like the Sternritters tanked it either, they went away after taking the attack from Yama. Okay, so maybe I went a little far when I said he'd tank it, but I don't see him dying by a casual attack that wasn't even only aimed at one.
Aizen reached his limits cuz the hogyoku wa ready to take full control plain an simple.
Please go look up the meaning of the word stamina then go look up the meaning for the word toughness sense you clearly don't know what they mean sense you went on to talk about how pre-TS zaraki is weaker than Yama when I never implied that he was not.
Well as we seen Byakuya is clearly stronger than he was before the time skip seeing as how his shikai is or above the level of his old bankai.
We watched isshin take on a worn down aizen an take no damage...we seen zaraki fight gremmy an zaraki took major damage an still won damag isshin won't survive at all...
Yea if isshin use bankai he will beat pre-TS Byakuya but not with his shikai an if he does it will be threw hard work...it's all about match ups ichigo lost to gin cuz he was basically a close range fighter while gin was long range....yea gin could not beat aizen thanks to ks that's why he had to wait for the perfect moment he could gran it an attack...no we know that isshin>worn out aizen not useing ks....when did I state pre-TS zaraki would beat isshin?.
Kyoraku could probaly deliver an attack like that aswell if he's playing his color game thing...an his attack being strong dont mean nothing so you saying just cuz of that one attack he can beat kyoraku in a fight?....it's clear to see no one is tanking Yama shikai flames being thrown at them an coming in direct contact with it,hell even people with blunt vene would have died if not for bazz-b.
No I mean when he was fighting that hollow thing an aizen slashed him so he could not active his shikai...to tank something is to get hit an still keep fighting you can't fall have to stay on ur feet which isshin did not do sense he had to get up....an yea isshin is dying.
1. Not a challange?
2. Yes, Aizen already did... lol
-That's why he created Margela, in order to stop Yama.
-THat's why he stated that he will lose to zanp. alone
-That's why the only one, who Aizen wanted to kill.
-That's Aizen had that look in his eye, when nearly dead Yama, caught his leg.
Yama never full powered Ennetsu Jigoku, Margela stoped it, before it reached it full power. Where did you get that karakura town is smaller than seiretei?
Map it out yourself, there are 12 Captains so far (One division does not have a captain since Yamamoto's death).
Shunsui > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Kenpachi > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Byakuya > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Dangai Komamura > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Shinji > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Unohana > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Joshiro (With Hype of being near equal to Shunsui ) > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
That's already more then half of the current Captains:
Current Hitsugaya > Kensei. With Rose its debatable, if Rose uses his Bankai from the start he should win, but Hitsugaya would more then likely finish Rose off before he can use Bankai.
Mayuri would loose to both Kensei and Rose without prep, but with prep, he fodderizes them.
Sui Feng > Kensei. She has superior speed, which is one of Kensei's strongest points, and her Bankai demolishes him. I would agree if you said Rose > Sui Feng though.
Low-Tier Captains are the Top 4 weakest, Rose, Sui Feng, Kensei and Mayuri (W/O prep). Keep in mind that just because they are Low-Tier captains does not mean they are weak, the top 5 Captains are the Top-Tiers of the series. Kensei and Rose are still very strong, they would rank pretty high among the Espeda.
Just because he was hit a lot of times doesn't make it a mid-diff battle. Kenpachi wasn't seeing anything but he was never actually slowed down nor got weakened by Tousen's attacks.
What's your point? They chose to use Bankai over using their masks against Mask De Masculine. Despite them both seeing Vice Admirals fodderized and Rose seeing Kensei fodderized. Bankai's > Hollow Masks, their respective feats dictate this as well. The list is not a list of mere opinions, its a list of opinions guided by feats. Hachigen the weakest Vizard? The guy who beat Barragan with a little help from Sui Feng? Hachigen is the strongest of the Vizards based on feats. Are you going to tell me, that Kensei/Rose are stronger then Shunsui, Kenpachi, Byakuya, Unohana, Dangai Komamura and Shinji? Fact is, Kensei and Rose have not shown any feats that would even put them in the Mid-Tier, they basically remained the same since Pre-TS while all the other Captains either got way stronger (Such as Byakuya and Kenpachi) or gained some feats (Such as Unohana). And the characters who basically stayed the same (Such as Shunsui and Shinji) where much stronger then Kensei and Rose to begin with. Unless you give me a solid argument to why Rose and Kensei at least make it into the Mid-Captain Tier, they get stomped by Renji, even if they are together.
So? Did that stop them from using their masks in FKT arc when they saw a lot of other characters beaten down instead of using their Bankais? No. Their feats suggest that they have more destructive capacity with the mask on which is useful in defeating opponents. Having their bankai in the course of it would make it easier to destroy their respective opponents. Umm. Okay, give me the feats where you got those ideas from. You didn't really provide any feats, even in the form of statements, it was just words put together saying this character is stronger than this. You said they were but one of the weaker visored was shown to be able to have skills to be considered mid-captain tier already. Based on feats? Sure, but you're neglecting the portrayal.
If you wanna talk feats, okay. Lisa alone was fighting Bankai Ichigo (w/ a mask) in a much better manner than Byakuya did. That was Lisa without a mask or whatever else. She was in shikai iirc. Are you gonna say she's stronger than Kensei as well? Well, tbf, Kensei did the same thing, he also fared against Bankai Visored Ichigo better than Byakuya did. And that was without his mask. So yeah, I'd say Kensei is stronger than pre-skip Byakuya. Current Byakuya doesn't have feats as of right now, so until he shows us his new power, he stays down there. I've already given you, and you just answered,
What's your point? They chose to use Bankai over using their masks against Mask De Masculine. Despite them both seeing Vice Admirals fodderized and Rose seeing Kensei fodderized. Bankai's > Hollow Masks
You just twisted what I said and repeat what you said before even after already giving valid and sound arguments to suggest that their masks are more destructive than Bankai. It was PIS why they didn't use it. They're not getting stomped by Renji if they're together.
At the very least, I'd put their masks having the same level of effect to their power as the bankai, not any lesser than that.
Just because he was hit a lot of times doesn't make it a mid-diff battle. Kenpachi wasn't seeing anything but he was never actually slowed down nor got weakened by Tousen's attacks.
The level of difficulty can be determined in many different ways. One if their ways is by the amount of injuries one has sustained after their battle, another way is by how long the fight took, another is by the amount of resources someone has exhausted of their arsenal. Kenpachi was basically a Mid-Diff on every single one of those aspects.
So? Did that stop them from using their masks in FKT arc when they saw a lot of other characters beaten down instead of using their Bankais? No. Their feats suggest that they have more destructive capacity with the mask on which is useful in defeating opponents. Having their bankai in the course of it would make it easier to destroy their respective opponents. Umm. Okay, give me the feats where you got those ideas from. You didn't really provide any feats, even in the form of statements, it was just words put together saying this character is stronger than this. You said they were but one of the weaker visored was shown to be able to have skills to be considered mid-captain tier already. Based on feats? Sure, but you're neglecting the portrayal.
They used their masks against some fodder Hollows. And against Starrk, who had not actually put anyone down without the use of a distraction. In terms of destructiveness, Rose's Mask is indeed more destructive then his Bankai, but that's only because Rose's Bankai is meant to be Haxx, not destructive. As for Kensei, same thing, Kensei's Bankai specializes in dealing internal damage, so of course its destructiveness would not be visible. Using Bankai + Masks would drain their stamina like crazy, its impractical to use them at the same time, and they wouldn't either assuming they where IC.
I will provide feats when you counter my statement, I believe you have enough common sense to know that the characters that I had said are stronger are indeed stronger, so I won't waste my time showing you feats until you make a solid counter to force me to show feats.
And where has Hachi ever been portrayed as the weakest Vizard? He was trained by the strongest Kido user in Bleach history, even as far as hype goes, Hachi > The rest of the Vizards.
If you wanna talk feats, okay. Lisa alone was fighting Bankai Ichigo (w/ a mask) in a much better manner than Byakuya did. That was Lisa without a mask or whatever else. She was in shikai iirc. Are you gonna say she's stronger than Kensei as well? Well, tbf, Kensei did the same thing, he also fared against Bankai Visored Ichigo better than Byakuya did. And that was without his mask. So yeah, I'd say Kensei is stronger than pre-skip Byakuya. Current Byakuya doesn't have feats as of right now, so until he shows us his new power, he stays down there. I've already given you, and you just answered,
lol what? She stalled Ichigo for a couple minutes and then Kensei came in to stall him himself. Kensei has far better feats then Lisa and as does Byakuya. Portrayel is not even needed. Portrayal only comes second to actual feats, unless you have feats to back up the portrayal, the portrayal is usually irrelevent (An exception is if the portrayal is Top-Tier standard against a Low-Tier opponent). Based of feats, current Kensei > SS Byakuya. But Byakuya got stronger after the SS arc, and jumped a couple tiers after training with ZD. Current Byakuya literally blitzes Kensei, or rips him to shreds with his Shikai.
You just twisted what I said and repeat what you said before even after already giving valid and sound arguments to suggest that their masks are more destructive than Bankai. It was PIS why they didn't use it. They're not getting stomped by Renji if they're together.
At the very least, I'd put their masks having the same level of effect to their power as the bankai, not any lesser than that.
I did not even use your words, how on earth did I twist them. So far, you have not given me a single feat of the offensive capabilities of the masks. Even if they are together, they would still fight one after the other like they did against Mask, that's IC. And we have already seen that Mask nearly effortlessly beat them, while Renji beat Mask, Mid-Diff. Kensei rushes in and gets burned to ashes just like Mask did or gets his body crushed just like Mask, Renji then proceeds to blitz Rose. If they literally fight together in unison, Renji will win Easy-Diff.
Depends, Rose's Bankai is most certainly better then his Mask, since Haxx suits Rose more then physical attributes. As for Kensei, I could agree that his Mask and his Bankai are more or less equal, they both support his CQC style of fighting.
Please go look up the meaning of the word stamina then go look up the meaning for the word toughness sense you clearly don't know what they mean sense you went on to talk about how pre-TS zaraki is weaker than Yama when I never implied that he was not.
By that, you're saying that pre-TS Kenpachi is somehow comparable to Yamamoto or someone who is only inferior to Yamamoto, and that was obviously not the case.
Well as we seen Byakuya is clearly stronger than he was before the time skip seeing as how his shikai is or above the level of his old bankai.
So? His bankai is still featless til it has feats. Do you want me to use featless bankai(s) as an argument as well? You wouldn't want that.
We watched isshin take on a worn down aizen an take no damage...we seen zaraki fight gremmy an zaraki took major damage an still won damag isshin won't survive at all...
Torn down, LOL. Isshin was the one who tore him down. Aizen one-shotted the rest of the captains who were left when all his Espadas were defeated. Aizen wasn't even hit once other than Yamamoto's kido, and seeing his shape after taking it, I daresay it didn't do much. Halfway the fight, Aizen started to say he was on the limit of his being Shinigami. He was on that because he could not do anything to defeat Isshin and he was pushed to use the Hougyoku, it started to completely devour him when Urahara came and at that point, he was clearly losing. He started stomping the trio when he was fully cocoon.
Yea if isshin use bankai he will beat pre-TS Byakuya but not with his shikai an if he does it will be threw hard work...it's all about match ups ichigo lost to gin cuz he was basically a close range fighter while gin was long range....yea gin could not beat aizen thanks to ks that's why he had to wait for the perfect moment he could gran it an attack...no we know that isshin>worn out aizen not useing ks....when did I state pre-TS zaraki would beat isshin?.
LOL. No. Base Isshin would stomp pre-TS Bankai Byakuya. You're just fanboying now. Isshin's flick kidos are probably enough to take pre-TS Shikai Byakuya down. It doesn't matter about matchups, you're only making excuses now, if Gin really did have that kind of power, then he can defeat Byakuya as well with a low diff battle. He wasn't using it, why would he think he would? It was obvious that at that point, Aizen was still vastly superior to Gin, who was stomping Ichigo, who beat Byakuya. And that was just Shikai Gin. And that point of Aizen is << Isshin, so Isshin >>>> pre-TS Byakuya The excuses to hype Byakuya are sad so I'm just gonna ignore them.
Kyoraku could probaly deliver an attack like that aswell if he's playing his color game thing...an his attack being strong dont mean nothing so you saying just cuz of that one attack he can beat kyoraku in a fight?....it's clear to see no one is tanking Yama shikai flames being thrown at them an coming in direct contact with it,hell even people with blunt vene would have died if not for bazz-b.
What's your basis that he could deliver the same attack? Nothing. You don't have anything to prove that he can replicate the feat.
LOL. That's already denying the main point of my post. Yes, if he can deliver that kind of attack, he will defeat Shunsui, together with your beloved pre-TS Byakuya.
No I mean when he was fighting that hollow thing an aizen slashed him so he could not active his shikai...to tank something is to get hit an still keep fighting you can't fall have to stay on ur feet which isshin did not do sense he had to get up....an yea isshin is dying.
What? I don't get any of this part other than saying that Isshin was dying when Aizen hit him. And that part is hilarious.
Isshin had enough strength to stand back up, walk around, and open senkaimon, then use his reiatsu to do that kaikyo kotei thing.
And this:
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Running like that isn't something a dying man can do. Isshin wasn't fighting any hollow, he was only fighting Aizen together with Yoruichi and Urahara, you're guessing silly stuff now. To tank something is taking an attack without losing your composure, falling on your feet doesn't mean you didn't tank it if you stand back up almost immediately, which is what happened with Isshin.
This is what happened.
> Cocoon Aizen stopped Gin and Ichigo's fight by being suddenly there.
> Cocoon Aizen and Gin left quickly.
> Isshin stood up.
> Ichigo helped him stand up.
> Isshin headbutted Ichigo.
> Ichigo was afraid of Aizen and didn't want to pursue him.
> Isshin then pushed Ichigo then walked to open a senkaimon on his own.
> Ichigo went with him after realizing irrelevant stuff.
> Ichigo and Isshin ran to get to the human world as quickly as they can.
> Isshin used his reiatsu to help Ichigo get stronger.
If he still had that much reiatsu and physical capabilities, then he did tank it.
If you read FT, it's kind of like Erza taking Terra Clamare and standing back up almost right after taking it.
The only problem is, Aizen left right after attacking the 3.
Isshin stood back up like half a minute after showing the panel that they were down, and his shape after standing back up seemed like he could still fight, albeit could still get stomped by Cocoon Aizen. By that, he did tank it.
Map it out yourself, there are 12 Captains so far (One division does not have a captain since Yamamoto's death).
Shunsui > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Kenpachi > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Byakuya > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Dangai Komamura > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Shinji > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Unohana > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
Joshiro (With Hype of being near equal to Shunsui ) > Kensei/Rose. Do you disagree?
That's already more then half of the current Captains:
Current Hitsugaya > Kensei. With Rose its debatable, if Rose uses his Bankai from the start he should win, but Hitsugaya would more then likely finish Rose off before he can use Bankai.
How do you know that Hitsugaya would finish Rose and how do you know flow of the battle? Hitsugaya was if I remember correctly, surprised with strength of Vizards, as well that both Lisa and Hiyori (one of the weakest Vizards), were able to fight Tier in the same manner as Hitsugaya did.
Mayuri would loose to both Kensei and Rose without prep, but with prep, he fodderizes them.
Sui Feng > Kensei. She has superior speed, which is one of Kensei's strongest points, and her Bankai demolishes him. I would agree if you said Rose > Sui Feng though.
Mask Kensei was able to outpaced all Vizards, so I don't think that she had much more superior speed than him, yes she has superior speed, but I do not believe that she would be able to speed blitz him.. Her bankai wasn't able to beat Barragan.
Also, Sui Feng was surprised with strength of other Vizards not to mention that mostly of Vizards didn't even used their shikai.
Low-Tier Captains are the Top 4 weakest, Rose, Sui Feng, Kensei and Mayuri (W/O prep). Keep in mind that just because they are Low-Tier captains does not mean they are weak, the top 5 Captains are the Top-Tiers of the series. Kensei and Rose are still very strong, they would rank pretty high among the Espeda.
I do not think that you really get well.... Just by not being captain, doesn't mean that you are not on that level, I will show you.
One can still be weakest captain but still being average captain level. Just by being on the bottom, doesn't neccessary mean that they are low tier captain level. 1st Generation of Gotei was said to be strongest of all generations, doesn that mean that 4 weakest are low tier. Maybe, but it's very unlikely.
Rose and Kensei were at least low tier captain level 100 years ago.
1. They trained for their hollows, and they Masks increase their power by good deal.
2. Not just that they trained for masks, they also trained 100 years for fighting Aizen, as was stated.
There is not possible for two of them to be just low tier captain levels, when both of them were at least on that level 100 years ago.
Far above captain level:
Yamamoto
Above Captain Level:
Urahara
Shinigami Aizen
Isshin
Unohana
Current Zaraki
Human Komamura
Senior captain level / High captain level:
Yoruichi (probably can be higher)
Kyoraku
Ukitake
RR Renji
RR Byakuya
RR Rukia
Gin
Shinji
Average captain level / Mid captain level:
Pre Muken Kenpachi
Pre RR Byakuya
Hitsugaya
Kensei (at least)
Rose
Love
Sui Feng (War arc) (at best)
Shinigami Kaname Tosen (at best)
Low tier captain level:
Mayuri
Pre War Sui Feng
Komamura
Possible Other Vizards
How do you know that Hitsugaya would finish Rose and how do you know flow of the battle? Hitsugaya was if I remember correctly, surprised with strength of Vizards, as well that both Lisa and Hiyori (one of the weakest Vizards), were able to fight Tier in the same manner as Hitsugaya did.
Because when he wants to be, he can be deadly, as shown in his Zombie form. Hitsugaya beat Harribel, while the the Vizards that fought Starrk got raped and Hachi was the only Vizard that actually did something.
Mask Kensei was able to outpaced all Vizards, so I don't think that she had much more superior speed than him, yes she has superior speed, but I do not believe that she would be able to speed blitz him.. Her bankai wasn't able to beat Barragan.
Also, Sui Feng was surprised with strength of other Vizards not to mention that mostly of Vizards didn't even used their shikai.
Sui Feng was almost as fast as Yoruichi, she is faster then Kensei, who got blitzed by base Mask De Masculine. Barragan >>>> Kensei so it does not matter. Kensei couldn't withstand a couple kicks and punches from base Mask, no way is he withstanding Sui Feng's Bankai.
This 'surprise' means nothing, just because they where surprised at their strength does not mean they thought themselves weaker.
One can still be weakest captain but still being average captain level. Just by being on the bottom, doesn't neccessary mean that they are low tier captain level. 1st Generation of Gotei was said to be strongest of all generations, doesn that mean that 4 weakest are low tier. Maybe, but it's very unlikely.
I am not talking about past gen captains when I say they are Low-Tier Captains, I am talking about current gen.
Rose and Kensei were at least low tier captain level 100 years ago.
1. They trained for their hollows, and they Masks increase their power by good deal.
2. Not just that they trained for masks, they also trained 100 years for fighting Aizen, as was stated.
There is not possible for two of them to be just low tier captain levels, when both of them were at least on that level 100 years ago.
Because when he wants to be, he can be deadly, as shown in his Zombie form. Hitsugaya beat Harribel, while the the Vizards that fought Starrk got raped and Hachi was the only Vizard that actually did something.
He can't be like that, since he has emotion while being alive. And powers he has while being zombie is not part of his power level.
How that prove anything? If Vizards were to fought Tier and loss, then yeah, your argument would be valid.. On top of that Hitsugaya was in advantage, considering that ice > water and Vizards didn't use their bankais.
Sui Feng was almost as fast as Yoruichi, she is faster then Kensei, who got blitzed by base Mask De Masculine. Barragan >>>> Kensei so it does not matter. Kensei couldn't withstand a couple kicks and punches from base Mask, no way is he withstanding Sui Feng's Bankai.
This 'surprise' means nothing, just because they where surprised at their strength does not mean they thought themselves weaker.
First time Yoruichi got serious, fight literally ended. It was not base Mask De Masculine. Mask De Masculine already used Schrift, he was a couple of times powered by James.
For the record, Kensei one shoted Mask, that just 10 seconds ago beaten three VC level, with not breaking a sweat.
Gillians are comparable to VC level, just by one shoting a couple of Gillians give you a good feats. It don't mean that it doesn necessary to be that they are weaker, but compare that + their feats and hype...
1. Other didn't got masks.
2. Other didn't know that Aizen is traitor, so didn't had to train in order to fight him.
It won't change my argument here at all. If that happened it would just mean that all characters jumped to the higher power levels, not that Vizards still is low tier.
I am not talking about past gen captains when I say they are Low-Tier Captains, I am talking about current gen.
Urahara is one of the strongest/most-skilled captain/ex-captain in the series, probably enters the top 5,or at least, top 10 of all who were ever shown to be captains. IDK why people put him down just because they see it fit for their argument. -.-"
Urahara is one of the strongest/most-skilled captain/ex-captain in the series, probably enters the top 5,or at least, top 10 of all who were ever shown to be captains. IDK why people put him down just because they see it fit for their argument. -.-"
