Rotten Tometos is taking a shiit on BatmanvSuperman

Marin

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Since you seemed to be selectively remembering what you said:

If you have to study the source material to understand anything about the movie franchise, then the franchise is a failure because it needs the exposition to deliver that. Of course they don't understand the full cinematic universe, but when it comes to movies, you shouldn't have to go "Oh well if you want the answer to that, read the comic/book."

I'm selectively remembering? Says a guy who notices only the first part of the sentence without even realizing the context.

They haven't bothered to study the source material which was evident, not from their lack of understanding of the unexplained things, but the concept. They bash it because it's dark. They bash it because it's violent. They bash it because there is not much humour. Literally clueless about what kind of movie this is supposed to be.

It's a Batman V Superman movie, heavily influenced by Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. Hell, you don't even need to know that, just knowing who Batman is should give you a hint that it's about a dark anti-hero. A vigilante.

No good critic will ever give a movie a negative review for being a different genre than the one they preffer watching. This is what I was talking about when I said they had no clue about the source material.

I didn't say you need to read the comics to understand the plot. I said that you need to know the source material, be it to the basic extent, in order to understand the movie to the fullest.
 

Punk Hazard

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I'm selectively remembering? Says a guy who notices only the first part of the sentence without even realizing the context.
That's the only part I wanted to address.

They haven't bothered to study the source material which was evident
It's really not a tough concept to grasp. When movie is meant to be independent from the source material, the studying the source material should not be needed. If it is needed, then the movie has failed.

not from their lack of understanding of the unexplained things, but the concept. They bash it because it's dark. They bash it because it's violent. They bash it because there is not much humour. Literally clueless about what kind of movie this is supposed to be. It's a Batman V Superman movie, heavily influenced by Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. Hell, you don't even need to know that, just knowing who Batman is should give you a hint that it's about a dark anti-hero. A vigilante.
If those are negative traits, then it doesn't matter that it's supposed to be that way. If too much violence, too much darkness, and not enough humor means that people don't enjoy the movie, then saying "It's supposed to be that way," doesn't change or excuse that.

Is Batman supposed to be dark, gritty, without much humor from Batman and violent? Yes. Does that mean Batman media can't be criticized for containing these elements? Not even close.

On purpose=/=can't be criticized.

No good critic will ever give a movie a negative review for being a different genre than the one they preffer watching. This is what I was talking about when I said they had no clue about the source material.
Criticism is a mix between subjective and objective. What makes a good movie lies on both personal preferences and objective criteria. It's not either, so yes, the subjective opinion on the genre can be included in a criticism.

Either way, what I said above still applies. Just because the source material was that way, or just because the movie was made that way on purpose doesn't mean that way can't be criticized.



I didn't say you need to read the comics to understand the plot. I said that you need to know the source material, be it to the basic extent, in order to understand the movie to the fullest.
And I'm saying the movie should be able to give you enough to fully understand the movie. If you need to read the comics to understand the movie at all, then the movie isn't doing a good job.
 

Marin

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That's the only part I wanted to address.



It's really not a tough concept to grasp. When movie is meant to be independent from the source material, the studying the source material should not be needed. If it is needed, then the movie has failed.
It requires you to know what you're going into. If you go in to the movie clueless about who is who (especially when this is a sequel and not a first installment) you failed in comprehending it. Not the movies fault. Still, its irrelevant to what I was saying.

If those are negative traits, then it doesn't matter that it's supposed to be that way. If too much violence, too much darkness, and not enough humor means that people don't enjoy the movie, then saying "It's supposed to be that way," doesn't change or excuse that.
Except they're not negative traits. (Who gets to decide that anyway?) Am I going to say a horror movie is bad because its scary? Or that thrillers are bad because they keep you on the edge? Or that comedies are bad because they're not serious? If you don't like a certain genre, than don't watch it. Each movie is to be judged under the criteria it's genre puts up.

In this case, we have a dark and a serious movie. Calling a dark and serious movie bad because it's dark and serious is something that will ruin your credibility forever.

Is Batman supposed to be dark, gritty, without much humor from Batman and violent? Yes. Does that mean Batman media can't be criticized for containing these elements? Not even close.

On purpose=/=can't be criticized.
Reffer to above. It's one thing not to like a movie (not being someone's cup of tea) but it's a totally different thing to call it bad because you don't like the type of movie it is.

And yes, you can criticize. Noone can stop you. The thing is, unjust criticizm renders your word worthless. So be my guest.

Criticism is a mix between subjective and objective. What makes a good movie lies on both personal preferences and objective criteria. It's not either, so yes, the subjective opinion on the genre can be included in a criticism

Either way, what I said above still applies. Just because the source material was that way, or just because the movie was made that way on purpose doesn't mean that way can't be criticized.
No, no and again no. Criticism should always be objective. Failing to keep your personal prefferences out of the way (atleast to an extent) is a sign you're not a good critic.

You don't give the movie a lower grade just because you'd preffer to watch a different type of movie. That's why we have different critics for different movies. For example, I didn't like Fight Club. I didn't like it at all. The ideas it presented were quite pitiful to me, but does that make it a bad movie? No, ofcourse not!

Wether a movie is good or not is determined by wether or not it succeded in reaching its goals. If the point of a movie is to scare you then it succeds if it scares you. If its point is to deliver a serious story than it succeds if it does in fact bring a serious story.

How else, do I explain this?

And I'm saying the movie should be able to give you enough to fully understand the movie. If you need to read the comics to understand the movie at all, then the movie isn't doing a good job.
It gave you enough to understand the parts which you were meant to understand. If you wanted to know everything that ties into it and that has yet to be revealed, then it's your problem, not the movie.
 
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Your Creepy Stalker

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One day, filmmakers will realise that every gritty superhero movie after The Dark Knight was terrible. hopefully this day will be now.


i never thought i would be able to honestly use the words "The Dark Knight Was Terrible" in that order when discussing movies featuring batman.
 

Marin

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One day, filmmakers will realise that every gritty superhero movie after The Dark Knight was terrible. hopefully this day will be now.


i never thought i would be able to honestly use the words "The Dark Knight Was Terrible" in that order when discussing movies featuring batman.
Watchmen? The Dark Knight Rises? Kickass?
 

Marin

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This reviews helps your stance, so it's legit, right? Every other review that opposes you isn't legit? GG.
No its legit because it looks at the movie for what it is rather than looking at it as if it was supposed to be something else.

As for my stance, its very clear in the previoys posts in this thread. If you have some objection to it than bring it out. Though you do have a greater track record of one liners rather than arguments so I don't expect much.
 

Punk Hazard

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Saw it last night, and I agree with critics. Batman, Wonder Woman, and Batman beating Supes' ass was great. But overall, it wasn't fun. It's polarizing, almost like I hadn't even watched a movie at all. It's like...a void. It's not good, but not bad? I definitely won't be watching the entire thing again, just the Batman and WW scenes. Idek what kind of rating to give it aside from ???/10.

No its legit because it looks at the movie for what it is rather than looking at it as if it was supposed to be something else.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
 

Punk Hazard

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This is the best thing to come out of the movie.

My computer had a fart so the plug-in didn't load at first, but I just knew it was Sad Affleck. I feel so bad for him. After all the work he put into making Batman Batman and to redeem himself from Daredevil, to actually be the best live action Batman we've ha thus far just to have the movie trashed by critics. Man, as much as this movie might be tanking, Batfleck is undeniably fantastic.
 

Marin

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Saw it last night, and I agree with critics. Batman, Wonder Woman, and Batman beating Supes' ass was great. But overall, it wasn't fun. It's polarizing, almost like I hadn't even watched a movie at all. It's like...a void. It's not good, but not bad? I definitely won't be watching the entire thing again, just the Batman and WW scenes. Idek what kind of rating to give it aside from ???/10.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
And the joke is...?
 

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My computer had a fart so the plug-in didn't load at first, but I just knew it was Sad Affleck. I feel so bad for him. After all the work he put into making Batman Batman and to redeem himself from Daredevil, to actually be the best live action Batman we've ha thus far just to have the movie trashed by critics. Man, as much as this movie might be tanking, Batfleck is undeniably fantastic.


Same here. Poor Ben. He's a fan of the character, brought a version a lot of people liked to life, is great, and it just so happens to be in a bad movie. Hopefully, he realizes that it isn't his fault. I can only imagine what he or anybody involved is going through since this is such a big thing, but especially him due to his past with Daredevil. Dude has bad comic book luck. If it's not one thing, it's something else.
 

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Same here. Poor Ben. He's a fan of the character, brought a version a lot of people liked to life, is great, and it just so happens to be in a bad movie. Hopefully, he realizes that it isn't his fault. I can only imagine what he or anybody involved is going through since this is such a big thing, but especially him due to his past with Daredevil. Dude has bad comic book luck. If it's not one thing, it's something else.
I just know the Affleck directed Batman will be so much better.
 

Marin

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i don't remember i watched it yesterday and i found that i disagreed with him a lot.
lol You sure forgot it fast. Well, disagreement doesn't make the review uncredible. I disagree with the things he said too, but the review is legit because he doesn't go "eh not enough Marvel" like many in RT did.

Btw, can you tell me where is the sad Affleck video from? I can't seem to find it. (I mean the actual interview, I wanna hear what he has to say.)
 

CrimsonReaper

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lol You sure forgot it fast. Well, disagreement doesn't make the review uncredible. I disagree with the things he said too, but the review is legit because he doesn't go "eh not enough Marvel" like many in RT did.

Btw, can you tell me where is the sad Affleck video from? I can't seem to find it. (I mean the actual interview, I wanna hear what he has to say.)
[video=youtube;cwXfv25xJUw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXfv25xJUw[/video]

enjoy.
 
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