Rinnegan Sasuke vs SM Hashirama

[ARGUS]

It's highest level of Fire Release, so Amaterasu is indeed fire.

Lol i was obviously trolling

 

[NarutoX28]

Lol i was obviously trolling

I wasn't paying attention then.

 

[NarutoX28]

In reactions: KCM Minato = KCM Naruto = EMS Sasuke < BM Naruto < BSM Naruto

I would put EMS Sasuke slightly above KCM Naruto considering KCM Minato commented on KCM Naruto keeping up with EMS Sasuke which excluded any form of Susano'o besides Partial Ribcage which implies that Naruto was playing the "catch-up" game.

 

[Kagustuchi]

I would put EMS Sasuke slightly above KCM Naruto considering KCM Minato commented on KCM Naruto keeping up with EMS Sasuke which excluded any form of Susano'o besides Partial Ribcage which implies that Naruto was playing the "catch-up" game.

I doubt it, considering Minato's original comment was on Sasuke's battle awareness and intelligence. He was comparing their skill.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Lol i was obviously trolling

No you weren't.​

 

[NarutoX28]

I doubt it, considering Minato's original comment was on Sasuke's battle awareness and intelligence. He was comparing their skill.

That was more of in response of Sasuke being able to quickly intercept Juubito's attack whereas KCM Naruto couldn't even perform a simple reaction such as extending his Chakra Arms to evade it.

That displays superior reactions, not to mention Madara easily slapped SM Naruto away who has superior reflexes in comparison to KCM Naruto whereas Madara praised EMS Sasuke's reflexes. It's clear EMS Sasuke is more reflexive than KCM Naruto.

 

[Unorthodox]

why did this debate go this far when i already owned Kidgamer in the last one?

 

[KeyofDestiny]

All of NB except for your old buddy knows that's false pal.

 

[Haizaki]

Wrong. When it comes to reaction speed Sasuke does not scale down to BM Naruto, because he already matched his reaction speed when he had Senjutsu up.

Kaguya's feat can't be overlooked no matter what..Once again I explained why this is wrong. Still trying to figure out what real argument is.

Which is because it wasn't shown. What's worse is that you are claiming V1, even though the only feat from V1 that we have is his Rasengan, and you have no evidence that it was over a 3x boost. Considering Curse Mark is nowhere near Senjutsu when it comes to buffing Ninjutsu, and Senjutsu would probably give around a 3x boost, you can forget about Naruto's Rasengan being 3x stronger than the original when using V1 because he matched Sasuke before and after the power up.

....?

So you're bringing in feats of 1 tail worth of the Kyuubi's chakra which was shown at VOTE against CM2 Sasuke? and comparing to the alliance? No thank you pal.

Not to mention Naruto's control hadn't reached the level at the alliance when he was at Vote...I also showed you he was focusing more power to the Alliance with how he lost KCM later. What's important is the Kyuubi's chakra has shown to enhance Naruto and also the Shinobi alliance which should indicate to you that it should definitely increase the speed of the alliance when it does to Naruto.

We're still here having a discussion of how Naruto's Kyuubi chakra doesn't up the speed of a Shinobi...?

It's because it wasn't shown, and because the only time Naruto was shown using Ninjutsu in V1, it was nowhere near what the SA got when it comes to a boost. Already addressed everything related to this up above. You are basically claiming that the boost is the same because you want it to be the same, not because you have any real evidence that it is the same.

No I gave my reasons above..I am only asking you to disprove why. Your argument was trying to relate KCM to V1 or whatever but I need you to actually prove that V1 Naruto in full control of his chakra can't have his Jutsu enhanced like that ?

With an Edo body? Not really. Edo bodies are not as durable as the living body.

"Not really" doesn't take any difference in feats. Rock Lee in his Base state considering his stats would never be able to replicate such without the Kyuubi cloak.

I read that...Nothing takes away the fact that Base Lee can't put such against Madara. There's a clear difference in strength upon having the cloak. Nothing to argue here literally.

What happened? What you are saying? To the extent you are claiming? Nope. Not one shred of evidence shows this.

Kamui is Ninjutsu and it was enhanced...A physical technique like Vacuum Palm was enhanced to a different level as shown with Hinata's case. Lee also had enough strength to cut Madara in half which he shouldn't be able to do in his Base state.

What's nonsense is that we are still having this discussion.

Exactly smh.

What you should drop here is how to read 101 considering you literally have no idea what you are talking about.

1. I state that they are equal, and that even if I'm wrong, they are in the same tier.
2. You reply saying that regardless of that my point doesn't stand.
3. Thus I reply by saying it does because I said IF THEY ARE IN THE SAME TIER.

So why are you replying with this nonsense?

Nope..I stated if there was a boost then Sasuke would be improve to a level he never had. What was the main argument we put up here? Who's superior in reaction speed: BSM Naruto or EMS Sasuke? Exactly what you asked.. I argued BSM Naruto was superior.

You're bringing in something I never argued against "Same Tier". Meanwhile the general reason for our debate is "Who's superior"? I don't care abut the same Tier because I'm not disputing that. You should have conceded if you're going to resort to that because that in the first place wasn't out argument.

Can you stop with this? My original point doesn't require Naruto and Sasuke to have equal physical reaction speed nor did I ever say that they did, so you telling me they don't is irrelevant so I really do not give a damn whether or not Naruto and Sasuke's Juubito feat proves that they have physical reaction. Stop mentioning irrelevant shit. Do I have to literally walk you through the whole conversation before you will realize that I do not care whether or not Sasuke's body or his Avatar moves as fast as Naruto's?

Lmaoo please I hope that heated car seat you're sitting on keeps burning..Effen laughable how one can get this fired up over an unrealistic drawing. Christ...Upon me trying to be respectful. Like you think I'll be afraid across America because of the way you talk? Lmao such a rude behavior smh.

I'll respond below but just had to laugh at this crazy behavior.

What's funny is that you clearly either aren't reading what I'm stating, or you are choosing to ignore it. I stated:

Naruto and Sasuke are equal in reaction speed, and the striking speed of their Avatars is equal.

Now you are telling me that "I tried to refer to the overall reaction speed of both characters by suggesting they strike at the same time", even though if you read, you'd realize that no, I did not say that Naruto and Sasuke strike at the same time. I said that their Avatars strike at the same time. Jesus Christ. You sound crazy telling me that mental reaction is irrelevant when I'm the one who made the initial claim, not you. 99% sure you have no idea what you are talking about here.

But this makes no sense. Their avatars didn't strike at the same time..Their attacks landed at the same time.

Manga is read from right to left which means by your logic, Sasuke is faster since he struck first

You must be registered for see links

. To any sensible person that makes no sense at all.

Where did you get them mentally reacting "at the same time" from exactly? This is just a question before you explode on your seat Lmao.

- Susnaoo was enhanced by Senjutsu once again...That should boost it since it's the users chakra obviously.

Then again Sasuke failed when faced with this:

You must be registered for see links

. You can't be measuring their reaction speed when they weren't faced with the attack. That would be a better way..Not the way you're using since it is really controversial.

If I were in your shoes, then yes. But I'm not. EMS Sasuke already matched BSM Naruto and his tracking already matched his sensing , so he can't be on the level of BM.

Except if truly they scale down to BM and EMS, then logically I should be correct about BSM being above which is the main argument...Which is the reason I responded to you.

When faced with an actual attack, Sasuke failed to react while Naruto did. That's a good way of measuring reaction speed. Then the Juubito scan I showed.

Btw stop getting ridiculously rude when you're being respected..Trust me over the internet, that holds 0 grounds and just makes you look like a child. That won't ever make your argument better lmao.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Kaguya's feat can't be overlooked no matter what..Once again I explained why this is wrong. Still trying to figure out what real argument is.

There is no "Kaguya's feat" that'd even begin to prove that in terms of reaction speed, RSM scales down to BSM in that category because BSM is the only one that'd include sensing. I really hope you aren't referring to when Kaguya pulled Sasuke into her portal, as that is a terrible comparison because:

1. That was a back attack. Sasuke only equals Naruto's reaction speed with Sharingan. How can he predict jack with Sharingan when he can't see the attack? Oh wait, he can't. And please don't reply saying that it proves his reaction speed is inferior.

2. Sasuke already matched BSM in sensing/tracking and reaction speed. So please tell me how you are getting BM=EMS Sasuke in reaction speed?

BM and EMS are equal, RSM and RG Sasuke scale down to them, yet BM Naruto obviously wouldn't react to EMS Sasuke as well as RSM Naruto did to RG Sasuke because while RG Sasuke only has his speed being boosted by the chakra, RSM Naruto gets his speed boosted by the chakra and he gets a Sage Mode, which gives him sensing abilities.

So you're bringing in feats of 1 tail worth of the Kyuubi's chakra which was shown at VOTE against CM2 Sasuke? and comparing to the alliance? No thank you pal.

You said Naruto's V1 cloak, and that's the only V1 cloak feat he has. If you have anymore, go ahead and share them. Otherwise, stop arguing this point. Cause you haven't provided any evidence at all.

Not to mention Naruto's control hadn't reached the level at the alliance when he was at Vote...I also showed you he was focusing more power to the Alliance with how he lost KCM later. What's important is the Kyuubi's chakra has shown to enhance Naruto and also the Shinobi alliance which should indicate to you that it should definitely increase the speed of the alliance when it does to Naruto.

Read that again. He was controlling the chakra to defend the shinobi. He never focused power into them remotely. He lost KCM because he used up too much of his own power trying to save them. N

So now you are claiming that they get a KCM level speed boost? Lmfao. What is next? Baseless claims after baseless claims. Naruto's Ninjutsu does not get a boost anywhere close to what the Shinobi alliance got when they received his chakra, so there is no reason to believe that the shinobi alliance gets a speed boost anywhere near that of what Naruto gets when he uses KCM. All of the cloak's powers were highlighted in the chapters they were shown in.

-Enhanced defense.
-Immensely enhanced Ninjutsu.

And massive speed boost is not one of them.

We're still here having a discussion of how Naruto's Kyuubi chakra doesn't up the speed of a Shinobi...?

We are still here having a discussion where you claim the cloak gave some kind of massive speed boost even though nothing was shown. Like I've said, it was either nothing major or there was none at all.

No I gave my reasons above..I am only asking you to disprove why. Your argument was trying to relate KCM to V1 or whatever but I need you to actually prove that V1 Naruto in full control of his chakra can't have his Jutsu enhanced like that ?

Smh. I asked you to prove that Naruto gets a massive Ninjutsu boost on par with what the SA received, and you haven't proven that. You've only repeated the same thing over and over again while ignoring the fact that you have to provide evidence.

"Not really" doesn't take any difference in feats. Rock Lee in his Base state considering his stats would never be able to replicate such without the Kyuubi cloak.

I read that...Nothing takes away the fact that Base Lee can't put such against Madara. There's a clear difference in strength upon having the cloak. Nothing to argue here literally.

So basically you are going to ignore everything you read and continue believing that the cloak grants a massive strength boost? Lmao. Does it grant a boost? Sure. A boost on par with what you are imagining? Yeah, no. Baseless.

Kamui is Ninjutsu and it was enhanced...A physical technique like Vacuum Palm was enhanced to a different level as shown with Hinata's case. Lee also had enough strength to cut Madara in half which he shouldn't be able to do in his Base state.

A physical technique? Vacuum Palm is Ninjutsu, it uses chakra. Doesn't prove that physical parameters get an equal boost.

Nope..I stated if there was a boost then Sasuke would be improve to a level he never had. What was the main argument we put up here? Who's superior in reaction speed: BSM Naruto or EMS Sasuke? Exactly what you asked.. I argued BSM Naruto was superior.

Please read below.

You're bringing in something I never argued against "Same Tier". Meanwhile the general reason for our debate is "Who's superior"? I don't care abut the same Tier because I'm not disputing that. You should have conceded if you're going to resort to that because that in the first place wasn't out argument.

Except you haven't proven me wrong. I stated that if I'm wrong, they are on the same tier. What you should've done is say "Ok" instead of responding with "hurr you're lying", along with "my point not standing" and all that irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with the argument. You assumed that "my point" referred to "who's superior?" when my point that was made before you replied to me had nothing to do with that argument.

Lmaoo please I hope that heated car seat you're sitting on keeps burning..Effen laughable how one can get this fired up over an unrealistic drawing. Christ...Upon me trying to be respectful. Like you think I'll be afraid across America because of the way you talk? Lmao such a rude behavior smh.

I'm getting slightly annoyed because I'm tired of you people coming around here not reading before you reply. Not to mention me saying "I don't give a damn", barely counts as heated. I suggest we stop trying to exaggerate things here and focus on the argument. :lol

What's funny is that you chalk it up to the drawing when in reality it's because of you acting incompetent. Smh. Please save it. :lol What's even funnier is that you've gotten much more heated than this over even more irrelevant nonsense. So now you are exaggerating and you're being a hypocrite.

But this makes no sense. Their avatars didn't strike at the same time..Their attacks landed at the same time.

Manga is read from right to left which means by your logic, Sasuke is faster since he struck first

You must be registered for see links

. To any sensible person that makes no sense at all.

I'm gonna have to ask you to read that again. Both panels above show Naruto and Sasuke pulling their arms back prepping the attack. Where do you see Sasuke striking first? Where do you see anyone striking first? All you see is them pulling their arms back, and them hitting their target at the same time. Their Avatars are factually equal in speed, so there is absolutely no way you can claim that one attacked first anyway.

Where did you get them mentally reacting "at the same time" from exactly? This is just a question before you explode on your seat Lmao.

If only I didn't already explain this. The fact that both their Avatars (equal in speed) reacted and struck and hit at the same time means that Naruto and Sasuke told them to, at the same time, meaning that they reacted at the same time.

- Susnaoo was enhanced by Senjutsu once again...That should boost it since it's the users chakra obviously.

Which is irrelevant to my point. Once again, something I've had to say about oh, maybe 3x now? Susanoo's speed is not relevant to my point nor does it have anything to do with Sasuke's mental reaction speed.

Then again Sasuke failed when faced with this:

You must be registered for see links

. You can't be measuring their reaction speed when they weren't faced with the attack. That would be a better way..Not the way you're using since it is really controversial.

Which is before his precognition leveled up, thus irrelevant. Not to mention being attacked isn't the only way to measure reaction speed. :lol. FT's arguments against the Minato fans should have made that very clear.

Except if truly they scale down to BM and EMS, then logically I should be correct about BSM being above which is the main argument...Which is the reason I responded to you.

Explained too many times.

When faced with an actual attack, Sasuke failed to react while Naruto did. That's a good way of measuring reaction speed. Then the Juubito scan I showed.

Btw stop getting ridiculously rude when you're being respected..Trust me over the internet, that holds 0 ground and just makes you look like a child. That won't ever make your argument better lmao.

Evani. Do me a big favor and start reading my posts correctly and then maybe you'll get some respect. Do me another favor and stop being a hypocrite. :lol. And while you are at it, keep your advice to yourself, because I can assure you that I don't care for it, not when it comes coming from the guy who got butthurt as all hell because River suggested you drop a tier on a debater tier list (of all things :lol) based on you believing that Neji beats 3-T Itachi from 4m. Smh.


I don't like hypocrisy, and I don't like baseless assumptions. Please keep both out of this thread .

 

[Unorthodox]

Btw stop getting ridiculously rude when you're being respected..Trust me over the internet, that holds 0 grounds and just makes you look like a child. That won't ever make your argument better lmao.

You cannot show no mercy to this fool kidgamer he aint shit but you to nice he dont pull that shit with me he already no


@Kidgamer when your debating against a whole thread on the same topic on 2 different threads maybe your wrong. You dont want me to make you concede again do you?

 

[KeyofDestiny]

You cannot show no mercy to this fool kidgamer he aint shit but you to nice he dont pull that shit with me he already no


@Kidgamer when your debating against a whole thread on the same topic on 2 different threads maybe your wrong. You dont want me to make you concede again do you?

Lmao. Why don't you read before you reply? The majority of this thread agrees that Hashirama beats Sasuke's punk ass. Same goes with the last thread too. The only thing I'm arguing now is whether or not EMS Sasuke equals KCM Naruto, BM Naruto, or BSM Naruto in reaction speed.

And I never conceded. Hashirama will always spank Rinnegan Sasuke w/o Rikudo Chakra. The only way he wins is if we:

-Ignore Manga canon.
-Give his CT feats far beyond what it was shown.
-Give his Rinnegan Genjutsu abilities it showed when he was boosted with Hagoromo's chakra.
-Make his PS anywhere near as strong as Madara's.

Etc etc. Go wank elsewhere.

 

[Unorthodox]

Lmao. Why don't you read before you reply? The majority of this thread agrees that Hashirama beats Sasuke's punk ass. Same goes with the last thread too. The only thing I'm arguing now is whether or not EMS Sasuke equals KCM Naruto, BM Naruto, or BSM Naruto in reaction speed.

And I never conceded. Hashirama will always spank Rinnegan Sasuke w/o Rikudo Chakra. The only way he wins is if we:

-Ignore Manga canon.
-Give his CT feats far beyond what it was shown.
-Give his Rinnegan Genjutsu abilities it showed when he was boosted with Hagoromo's chakra.
-Make his PS anywhere near as strong as Madara's.

Etc etc. Go wank elsewhere.

Then go reply to me with yo scary ass best know im no evani ill catch that ass slipping and hav you conceding again Unorthodox will always defeat you in debates know that KIDgamer

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Then go reply to me with yo scary ass best know im no evani ill catch that ass slipping and hav you conceding again Unorthodox will always defeat you in debates know that KIDgamer

So I can argue with an annoying fanboy (of Sasuke and of me :lol) for 15 more pages? It takes a lot for me not to bother replying to someone. That just shows how foolish your arguments are. Troll level stuff tbh.

 

[Unorthodox]

So I can argue with an annoying fanboy (of Sasuke and of me :lol) for 15 more pages? It takes a lot for me not to bother replying to someone. That just shows how foolish your arguments are. Troll level stuff tbh.

Nope all is shows is that you know im going to win you go pages with people all the time yet when its comes to Almighty Unorthodox there
s a problem humm i cant imagine why.

Also if your not going to reply or atleast read my post stop saying the same nonsense you posted before because its been shitted on and didnt i already tell you RSM Naruto is BSM Naruto equivalent i already shitted on your shitty down scaling

 

[Haizaki]

Gonna respond to this tomorrow but on the other hand, I am seriously arguing with some who thinks Vacuum Palm is Ninjutsu........

Seen the River point...So I have beef with Zexion and Apex. Kid please realize somethings before saying this nonsense...Me and River had friction before. Anyways I think I know you fully well to even bother with this aspect.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Nope all is shows is that you know im going to win you go pages with people all the time yet when its comes to Almighty Unorthodox there
s a problem humm i cant imagine why

I go pages with people because I don't know whether or not they will go full retard and continue to spout BS, or if they will just give up. I went 15 pages countering the same arguments you use for this match up, and you still kept spouting that BS.

You are an entertainer, even if we are just laughing at you and not with you. I'll give you that much. :lol

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Gonna respond to this tomorrow but on the other hand, I am seriously arguing with some who think Vacuum Palm is Ninjutsu........

Seen the River point...So I have beef with Zexion and Apex. Kid please realize somethings before saying this nonsense...Me and River had friction before. Anyways I think I know you fully well to even bother with this aspect.

It's Taijutsu, my bad. But it uses chakra, and Kurama's chakra increases the strength of that chakra, thus it is not a pure physical attack so you literally still don't have a point here. Kaguya's attack follows the same exact principle and is stated to be the origin of the Hyuuga's air palm techniques, and Databook 4 says that she can use this technique because she loads chakra into her palm.

Or are you going to tell me next that Hinata's air palm came about because of her physical strength? :lol, please don't add on to the list of baseless claims you've made over the past 2 days.

So what? Why did you come to have beef with them to begin with? Oh wait, because of a debate. Lol. Don't tell me not to get heated when:

1. You get heated over irrelevant things.
2. I'm not heated. Not even close.

And don't attribute it to it being about a "fictional drawing" when you should know that it's not. I do not care for the hypocrisy. Not one bit.

 

[Unorthodox]

I go pages with people because I don't know whether or not they will go full retard and continue to spout BS, or if they will just give up. I went 15 pages countering the same arguments you use for this match up, and you still kept spouting that BS.

In this i why i dont concede to you look at the bold you try to intimidate people with walls of text not i not unorthodox. Spouting bs child please i'v conceded before so i know my limits or when im wrong im just not going to concede when i know im right you get that. Lame excuse for not replying to me you dont want it because you know what i do to people in debates do i need to show my thread of people who got spanked by me?

You are an entertainer, even if we are just laughing at you and not with you. I'll give you that much. :lol

Im not an entertainer im just very verisimilitude who laughing at me? Icelerate?

 

[KeyofDestiny]

In this i why i dont concede to you look at the bold you try to intimidate people with walls of text not i not unorthodox. Spouting bs child please i'v conceded before so i know my limits or when im wrong im just not going to concede when i know im right you get that. Lame excuse for not challenging me cuhz you dont want because you know what i do to people in debates do i need to show my thread of people who got spanked by me?

No, I don't. Everything I post is necessary because when I argue with people like you I have to go into extreme detail just for you to understand a point it would've taken most others to understand with a few sentences.

But once again. Go flex on the internet for someone who cares. I'm done taking you seriously.