Proof that Second Tsuchikage > Fourth Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

takiyacrowz

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Second Tsuchikage vs Fourth Hokage
This is the 3rd installment in the pitting Kages against eachother this is a thread an exception to pitting a relatively unknown Kage against a very known one as both Tsuchikages we have info on are very known by most of the NB members.

This is a thread showing why the Second Tsuchikage is arguably stronger than the Fourth Hokage.

Mu was able to kill the Second Mizukage (arguably the greatest Mizukage in history) which is a massive feat and so can rival Minato in the amount of hype he has





Why the Second Tsuchikage would win against the Fourth Hokage?

1) Elemental Versatility and Infinite Battle Tactics
Due to the Second Tsuchikage possessing several elemental affinities, he is able to use them to their utmost effectiveness rather than simply using it because of the lack of choices available to them. Long range Katon (Fire) techniques allow the Second Tsuchikage to use super heated balls of flames in volleys from a distance to overwhelm the Fourth Hokage from the skies. The Second Tsuchikage can also use his wind techniques from medium range (just out of range, of the Flying Thunder God Technique) to blow away Minato in his attempts to close the gap.

At close range he can use Earth Techniques for close combat, strength boosting techniques and etc. Earth's versatility as a element allows it to be used both offensively and defensively which gives him the ability to quickly adapt to quick paced close combat.

His three natural affinities also allow him to have the elemental advantage over the Wind Element (his fire overwhelms it), his water element (his Earth element dissipates it), his Earth element protects against the wind element
and his Wind element is a natural insulator which is strong against Lightning.


2) Range of the Battle

The Second Tsuchikage's ability to fly can be used to gain a distance advantage over the Fourth Hokage as he specializes in close combat (Taijutsu, Rasengan, FTG Technique) which are all rendered useless at that range. He can also take advantage of the range by using long range volleys of Katon (Fire) techniques and maybe Fuuton (Wind) techniques to be used as a alternative.


3) Ability to Warp the Terrain

Mu could use his Dust Release to devastate the landscape from above leaving many craters in the ground causing trouble for Minato to more around effectively. This could hamper his efforts in dodging volleys of Katon attacks from the Second Tsuchikage. Large Scale Earth techniques can also be used in conjunction with the half destructed landscape to trap/crush Minato and warp the terrain to intercept Minato's movements with Earth technique related traps.


4) Ability to Evade and React to Flying Thunder God Technique

Furthermore, when these detection capabilities are employed in conjunction with his quick reflexes, he can avoid techniques that even other Kage find difficult to evade, as demonstrated when only he instinctively managed to elude the clutches of Gaara's sand hands and avoid Naruto's attack from behind.


The Second Tsuchikage's Elemental Advantage with Dust Release (his Kekkei Tota) and his Elemental affinities
Strengthened by Wind techniques as his Katon (fire) techniques are powered up by increasing their speed and primarily the air feeding the flames.

Immunity to Water techniques as Muu's Earth Affinity has a elemental advantage over water and could be used defensively as a massive wall to because dissipate the force of water rendering the technique less effective.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as the only solid structure element it is at the mercy of Dust release as it is physically able to be disintegrated at a molecular level.

Immunity to lightning techniques as his wind release acts as a natural insulator which stops the Lightning traveling very far and making it impossible to hit Muu unless used a very close range.

Immunity to all physical elements and pseudo elements e.g. Sand and Mud as they like Earth can be physical disintegrated.

If you check the above spoiler tag you will see that whatever element(s) Minato may possess would easily be countered by Mu's Jinton or natural elemental affinities (except if had the fire element). Even then his own Fire element fuelled by that of his wind element would easily overwhelm any fire element attacks possessed by Minato.

Alternative Arguements on why Minato could win

Other Tactics that could be used by Mu
The Second Tsuchikage can use a combination of his two abilities, splitting and becoming invisible as a last resort attack. It can only be used in the event of Minato landing a successful hit which would do deadly damage.

First he could split and make a duplicate after a potentially lethal subsequently reducing his attack power by half.

Then use his absolute invisibility, to remove all traces of the 2nd body which he now inhabits, to let Minato get his guard down as he would think the battle just ended.

Finally, the Second Tsuchikage has a chance at a devastating sneak attack against Minato which could even out the levels of damage done to each party or even be potentially lethal.

What do you guys think who would win, the Second Tsuchikage or the Fourth Hokage?


Proof that the Third Kazekage > The Third Raikage -


Proof that the Second Mizukage > The Second Hokage -



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-i'd say u wasted ur effort and this is no proof just an argument
- when minato defeated tobi it was not only speed but reflexes
- he hit the rasengan and put a seal at the same time on a guy who can be intangible
- tsuchikage's reflexes are great but but not great enough .
- most of the attack won't work on minato , he will teleport them .
- minato can escape right after he realizes he is attacked , he escaped after getting cought in tobi's jutsu . proof of his great reflex
- and u seriously missed siki fujin , an absolute sealing technique .
so in the worst case scenario it would be a draw . no way mizukage is winning this
- suicide or natural death are the only ways minato can be killed .
 

Cronos

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hmm... this is a tough one, by hype Minato is clearly the stronger one but by facts we can't really be that sure anymore.

Firstly:
Minato can probably warp himself to places he can't see since he was able to warp himself to Kushina when she was very far away. So the theory about that he would have a problem in uneven fighting isn't really bullet proof.

Secondly:
Battle experience... they are quite even there, since even if Muu has more experience the world has known about his abilities a long time when Minato was alive. and i've seen people saying that Muu wasn't that old and that why the tsuchikages only have three was because they were formed a long time after Konoha. Well Madara did fight Muu and The old geeser in the name of konoha so they were not that young^^

Thirdly:
All Minato has to do is to mark the tsuchikage and the battle is pretty much over, but only doesn't mean that it is easy. True Muu can fly but Minato can warp allot, even in midair so if he doesn't get close one time then he only need to do it several times. This doesn't mean that it is an easy battle with getting close for Minato.

Fourth:
The sensing part. I agree that Muu is a better Sensor than Minato, even if Minato only need to touch the ground to understand how many and where they are, Muu is clearly better with being able to while walking and running always knowing where the enemy is and so on..

Fifth:
The dust release. as long as Minato is aware if hes being attacked he will be able to dodge the attack, that's his foremost ability. But i think it will be a battle for he uses up his chakra rather than overpowering the other one.
It is pretty much the same with Itachi, we dont know who will win since they are kinda the same.

After all of this is almost even but my vote goes for Minato since he will be able to outlast his enemy by hype, and being able warp several high chakra attacks like TBB. so this is a fight for who has the most stamina you could say.
 
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sasukexx13

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uh these vs threads are so complicated...

anyways.....2nd have better sensing abilities,flying,jinton,kekkei touta,body splitting....i don't think minato stands a chance against him..
 

satori

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Muu would pose a challenge for Minato, however Muu´s Jinton techniques are rendered useless against someone who can cover great distances in miliseconds, unless Mu goes suicidal and there is still a chance of failure in that. Minate doesn´t have to hit him with Kunais even, all he has to do is shower him with them, appear out of one and tag Mu. It´s over when that happens. I´m sure Muu knows jutsu that are strong with each chakra affinity he possese but since the data on that is inexistent so far as well as the rest of Minato´s Jutsu. Minato wins based on what we know so far. The splitting tech is more of an escape tech then a fighting one seeing as when it is performed the user loses half of his power. Something a person doesn´t want to do in a fight. Minato was able to dodge A, a dust tech from a distance is avoidable. Mui´s strongest asset would be Earth Jutsu, I believe Minato´s is wind seeing as he almost did the rasenshuriken when he was Hokage. In the manga somewhere it´s shown. A kunai loaded with that chakra can go through rocks so I think you get the point. Assuming Minato could do the chakra thing like Asuma did or what Sasuke does with the sword.
 

Negative Knight

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Muu would pose a challenge for Minato, however Muu´s Jinton techniques are rendered useless against someone who can cover great distances in miliseconds, unless Mu goes suicidal and there is still a chance of failure in that. Minate doesn´t have to hit him with Kunais even, all he has to do is shower him with them, appear out of one and tag Mu. It´s over when that happens. I´m sure Muu knows jutsu that are strong with each chakra affinity he possese but since the data on that is inexistent so far as well as the rest of Minato´s Jutsu. Minato wins based on what we know so far. The splitting tech is more of an escape tech then a fighting one seeing as when it is performed the user loses half of his power. Something a person doesn´t want to do in a fight. Minato was able to dodge A, a dust tech from a distance is avoidable. Mui´s strongest asset would be Earth Jutsu, I believe Minato´s is wind seeing as he almost did the rasenshuriken when he was Hokage. In the manga somewhere it´s shown. A kunai loaded with that chakra can go through rocks so I think you get the point. Assuming Minato could do the chakra thing like Asuma did or what Sasuke does with the sword.
Nice argument but there are a few flaws in the Kunai Technique

Muu possess Fuuton (the wind element) and can simply blow them far out of the battlefield without much effort making Minato waste his Kunai or reappear somewhere random with no advantage to him. Also Minato can't waste his Kunai as eventually his supply will run out meaning he will have a slower version of teleporting which is very limited in use and it teleports you to exact locations marked on seals placed on the environment.
 

Omnislash X SageMode

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uh these vs threads are so complicated...

anyways.....2nd have better sensing abilities,flying,jinton,kekkei touta,body splitting....i don't think minato stands a chance against him..
Minato DOES stand a chance against Muu its just people arnt using good enough arguments to say why minato will win other than FTG (its not enough for minato in this battle)...If muu can attack long range and be out of range from his kunai which isnt a problem for him because he can fly..then what? on the flip side...minato evades most things with FTG...but i dont think minato will be redirecting jinton onto muu....the only way for that to happen is if he tags him with the seal....he has to catch him first....which is near impossible seeing he can fly...and worst comes to worst...he can seperate....that means one of his bodies can take the damage...the other one is fine and it cost half his chakra...its alot..but he still can fight back at that point....its a battle of the fastest attack..longest stamina...quickest reactions/reflexes...which is why my origanal post stated a draw...either has the potential to win...its just gonna be VERY HIGH difficulty
 

hatake89

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Muu takes this mid-high dif... Minato will have trouble finding if muu if he uses his invisibility tecnuiqe and from there it's kinda game over >.<
 

nj tandi

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I'm going to stick my head out here and say we haven't been shown the full extent of Minato' power or range of jutsu,only rasengan and flying thunder god technique.
Now Minato beat Tobi,a guy who on paper would seem invincible,he can become intangible!No rasengan,jinton or anything else for that matter should work against him.But who won?Minato.
Now untangilbilty is a level higher than invisibility.
Now Mu becomes invisible by bending light rays using chakra.This is good only for infiltration purposes,not actual battle,as he would have to releases chakra for a jutsu,which can be detected.Even if he does sneak up on Minato,or catch him by surprise,we know Minato has great reflexes,and could usr FTG.He even dodged packages lighting armor enhanced attack at the last moment.Teleportation barrier nullifies jinton.Very,intelligent, could devise a battle strategy.Who needs experience,when you've got natural talent for this?If Minato could land a rasengan like he did on Tobi, there would n new no time for Mu to react.So I think against any opponent Minato could find a way to win.But in the end, it's all upto to how Mr.Kishimoto wants the battle to go.:D

EDIT:Body splitting takes lot of chakra, might not have enough left then for huge attacks.Also,if Minato places the FTG jutsu formula on Mu it doesn't matter what Mu does.
 
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Negative Knight

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Minato DOES stand a chance against Muu its just people arnt using good enough arguments to say why minato will win other than FTG (its not enough for minato in this battle)...If muu can attack long range and be out of range from his kunai which isnt a problem for him because he can fly..then what? on the flip side...minato evades most things with FTG...but i dont think minato will be redirecting jinton onto muu....the only way for that to happen is if he tags him with the seal....he has to catch him first....which is near impossible seeing he can fly...and worst comes to worst...he can seperate....that means one of his bodies can take the damage...the other one is fine and it cost half his chakra...its alot..but he still can fight back at that point....its a battle of the fastest attack..longest stamina...quickest reactions/reflexes...which is why my origanal post stated a draw...either has the potential to win...its just gonna be VERY HIGH difficulty

Exactly, and people seem to overestimate the power of FTG Kunai

Every technique has a weakness and the weakness to this one is, it is depenedent on where the Kunai lands.

Muu can use weak volleys of wind and redirect the FTG Kunai to another location and offset Minato considerably.
 

TobisPawn

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Nice thread. I see Mu having a better chance of causing more damage against Minato, though Minato's ability to evade most attacks (FTG) would be a problem for Mu.
 

nj tandi

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It depends when it comes to FTG Kenai.We've seen how good Shikamaru is a luring people into his shadow mimic jutsu.Now,it depends on the location but if Minato could throw kunai to different places he could lure Mu there with long range jutsu.People seem to assume he has only rasengan and FTG.He's hokage,surely he would be able to use high level long range jutsu.Also,he could create late bunshins to jump up to Mu if he were flying,and throw kunai at him from 4 directions-up,down,left and right.He wouldn't be able to dodge them all.Like naruto did against Kakuzu,who too remember,was in long range mode.He was also intelligent and rasenshuriken was then a point blank move.Hiruzen used kage bunshins against Orochimaru.
Hey,in the end I guess I'm just a Minato fan!But I honestly think could win.But sure,it would be a tough battle for both of them.
 

TheSages456

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minato would win. jinton wouldnt hit minato since tobi could go inside save sasuke and warp out before being turned dust. minato is faster than tobi. not to mention minato could redirect mu's jinton. im not sure how minato would hit mu in the air but this match is more in favor of minato.
 

Omnislash X SageMode

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Exactly, and people seem to overestimate the power of FTG Kunai

Every technique has a weakness and the weakness to this one is, it is depenedent on where the Kunai lands.

Muu can use weak volleys of wind and redirect the FTG Kunai to another location and offset Minato considerably.
ALSO....neither ninja have faced the other quite like themselves....muu hasnt fought a ninja of this caliber...minato has not faced a kage with this arsenal of counters....they BOTH have counters for the other...if minato teleports....muu has invisibility/separation....if muu uses jinton....minato can redirect it to another location (if he prepared it)....they are both so intelligent...they will most likely kill eachother in a stalemate...its just too equal...BUT.....what about a location they both have a disadvantage in.....i wonder...:cool:
 

Omnislash X SageMode

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personally id like to see a well detailed...Muu Vs jiriaya.....or konan vs someone....shes underrated...she can cause an explosion for 10 mins str8.....the fugg do i do against that!?
 
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I believe that the Second Tsuchikage an defeat the Fourth Hokage. He has most advantages except speed but im not saying Minato will be easy to defeat.

He wins High Difficulty
 

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This is one of those fights that if you plugged in the data we have available into a simulator and ran this battle 100 times, you would find that they both are capable of defeating the other. That being said, clearly there has to be one that comes out on top (that is, wins the fight more times than loses).

I'm going to assume neither fighter has information on the other, give them standard terrain (a forest, open field or deserted area), and their usual selection of ninja tools. With these conditions, I think most people without bias would have to give this one to the Second Tsuchikage.

The quick and easy reasons: Both opponents have techniques and tools at their disposal that work very well as a surprise. Since neither one knows about the other, Muu comes out on top because lets face it; the ability to hide your entire presence is insane. You combine a perfect approach with his kekkei genkai which easily one-shots any normal opponent and you have victory on just about every non-prepared opponent.

For the Minato fans, don't fret it's not a big deal. This particular opponent is just about too much for anyone simply because he's been blessed with two very over-powered techs. I honestly would give Minato the edge in most categories if you were comparing them side by side. Intelligence, physical ability, technique (not arsenal, execution), and more can all be given to Minato edge-wise. Unfortunately it's a bit of a moot point if you are dead before you even know you were in a fight.

The results vary based on battle conditions but the only way I see Minato winning more times than losing is if he has knowledge but the Tsuchikage doesn't. In a situation such as that, it's a bit overkill. It's been demostrated quite a bit that having knowledge on a character can greatly increase success in the Narutoverse.

If you're curious about my thoughts if they both have full knowledge, I'm leaning towards a 60/40 split favoring the Tsuchikage. That being, Minato only wins 40% of the time.

Also, I'm a big fan of Minato and don't really care for the second Tsuchikage in the least.
 
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