Perfect Jin Gaara vs EMS Sasuke

Benjamin King · Oct 14, 2014

Apêx said:
No, Amateratsu was used to burn the Ice on his hand, so that he could make direct contact with it, and only then was he capable of controlling it, after it made contact with him (or his chakra). Amateratsu against Kabuto was spawned far from Sasuke, so it wasn't Enton. And no, it is as fast as Amateratsu travels, but it lacks Amateratsu's ability to spawn, hence he used Amateratsu on the ice and then used his Enton, rather than starting off with Enton like he would with his Susano. So Enton is fast, it just lacks Amateratsu's ability to spawn.

I still don't see how Amatersu being spawned will matter to Gaara. His sand blocks it and disposes of the burned sand, then Gaara creates another sand.

That's Rinnegan Sasuke, whose control and power over Susanoo is considerably higher than his lesser version. He doesn't have that feat in this form.

Again, that's Rinnegan Sasuke, not EMS Sasuke. I used the term ''nullify''.

Apêx1 · Oct 14, 2014

Benjamin King said:
I still don't see how Amatersu being spawned will matter to Gaara. His sand blocks it and disposes of the burned sand, then Gaara creates another sand.

That's Rinnegan Sasuke, whose control and power over Susanoo is considerably higher than his lesser version. He doesn't have that feat in this form.

Again, that's Rinnegan Sasuke, not EMS Sasuke. I used the term ''nullify''.

Because that means there's much less time for him to react as it's part travelling part 'S/T manner' spawning.
His control would be no different. Enton is capable of spawning through the majority of Tenketsu's on a mere ribcage Susano, since all Enton's used with Susano are manifested directly from his chakra or around his hand itself. Him not being able to use the same tenketsu's to utilise Raiton is ignoring the fact he can use his Doryoku to achieve such, and ignoring the fact he can use his Raiton with his Susano simultaneously to emphasise he can use any tenketsu in the Susano itself.

Styles · Oct 14, 2014

Lol People thinking Gaara wins.

Benjamin King · Oct 14, 2014

Apêx said:
Because that means there's much less time for him to react as it's part travelling part 'S/T manner' spawning.
His control would be no different. Enton is capable of spawning through the majority of Tenketsu's on a mere ribcage Susano, since all Enton's used with Susano are manifested directly from his chakra or around his hand itself. Him not being able to use the same tenketsu's to utilise Raiton is ignoring the fact he can use his Doryoku to achieve such, and ignoring the fact he can use his Raiton with his Susano simultaneously to emphasise he can use any tenketsu in the Susano itself.

React? Gaara doesn't need to react. In fact, he constantly wears his sand armour, so if by a chance he does get hit, the sand can dispose of it. (Assuringly he can control like the shield) No, there is a difference. Could Naruto use a Mini-Rasenshuriken before having Kurama's power under control? Nope. Could Naruto mix elements with his Rasenshuriken before gaining Bijuu's power? Nope. Could Kakashi use PS without Rikudou's power enhancing his Doryoku to achieve it? Nope. As you can see from these examples, the greater the power they gained, the benefits they get from them. Sasuke had Hagoromo's power enhancing his Doryoku, and that's how he achieved a PS like Indra's and how he could conjunct his Raiton with Susanoo. To say he can do something he never did with his lesser version (and can't do), is nothing more than illogical assertion.

madvictory · Oct 15, 2014

Gaara extremely-high-diff. Sasuke's Leg Susano'o isn't really match for any Jinchuriki, let alone a perfect one.

Apêx1 · Oct 15, 2014

Benjamin King said:
React? Gaara doesn't need to react. In fact, he constantly wears his sand armour, so if by a chance he does get hit, the sand can dispose of it. (Assuringly he can control like the shield) No, there is a difference. Could Naruto use a Mini-Rasenshuriken before having Kurama's power under control? Nope. Could Naruto mix elements with his Rasenshuriken before gaining Bijuu's power? Nope. Could Kakashi use PS without Rikudou's power enhancing his Doryoku to achieve it? Nope. As you can see from these examples, the greater the power they gained, the benefits they get from them. Sasuke had Hagoromo's power enhancing his Doryoku, and that's how he achieved a PS like Indra's and how he could conjunct his Raiton with Susanoo. To say he can do something he never did with his lesser version (and can't do), is nothing more than illogical assertion.

Yes, that would counter it. The rest of your argument is flawed. Naruto didn't have TBB powers to use them in the first place, Sasuke had Susano. Kakashi didn't have a second MS to use PS, Sasuke had Susano. The only thing Sasuke received was a Rinnegan and the Rikudo's chakra, nothing indicates he received the ability to utilise Tenketsu through his Susano, it's fallacious. If anything, Sasuke has used Enton through his entire Susano which displays it has always had usable Tenketsu, and has done it with the hand and its entire body. Him not being able to use Raiton while in his Susano is going against what the manga has shown to make a biased case for a favourable character. I don't see why Rikudo's chakra would create tenketsu on Sasuke's Susano which was already usable with Enton since MS, and your examples didn't support the argument as to why Rikudo's chakra enhancement would create tenketsu for Sasuke's Susano. It is a logic assertion because he's had the potential to do so since MS, and the Rikudo's chakra has no reason to give him such a bonus as it is completely irrelevant from its power-ups.

Varrah · Oct 15, 2014

Hasn't been shown regarding EMS, so he can't do it. Yes I'm going to be dense for this match-up.

...but in being dense, you are committing a fallacy appealing to ignorance, arguing for the negative claim that Sasuke cannot channel Chidori/Raiton alongside Susanoō for lack of evidence. In arguing in this way, you base your argument not on knowledge, but on ignorance, a lack of knowledge. The lack of evidence for Sasuke utilizing Chidori/Raiton alongside Susanoō does not constitute as sufficient evidence against it. This form of dialogue, arguing from ignorance, violates the principle of burden of proof in which by claiming Sasuke has not shown that he can Chidori/Raiton alongside Susanoō you are attempting to shift the burden of proof unto Strict and Apex implicating that they have the responsibility to disprove your claim or provide support of Sasuke being able to use Chidori or Raiton through Susanoō. If Strict and Apex do not accept the responsibility to disprove your claim or provide support for the contradicting claim, you would have to fallaciously assume that there is no evidence for the contradicting claim.

Basically, you are assuming that because Sasuke has never displayed such a feature he is incapable of using it said feature. This is similar to deciding that Itachi cannot use Susanoō with a Karasu Bushin because he has never done it. The absence of evidence against Sasuke utilizing Chidori/Raiton alongside Susanoō is regarded as evidence for Sasuke being unable to utilize Chidori/Raiton alongside Susanoō . This is an invalid inference.

Benjamin King · Oct 15, 2014

Apêx said:
Yes, that would counter it. The rest of your argument is flawed. Naruto didn't have TBB powers to use them in the first place, Sasuke had Susano. Kakashi didn't have a second MS to use PS, Sasuke had Susano. The only thing Sasuke received was a Rinnegan and the Rikudo's chakra, nothing indicates he received the ability to utilise Tenketsu through his Susano, it's fallacious. If anything, Sasuke has used Enton through his entire Susano which displays it has always had usable Tenketsu, and has done it with the hand and its entire body. Him not being able to use Raiton while in his Susano is going against what the manga has shown to make a biased case for a favourable character. I don't see why Rikudo's chakra would create tenketsu on Sasuke's Susano which was already usable with Enton since MS, and your examples didn't support the argument as to why Rikudo's chakra enhancement would create tenketsu for Sasuke's Susano. It is a logic assertion because he's had the potential to do so since MS, and the Rikudo's chakra has no reason to give him such a bonus as it is completely irrelevant from its power-ups.

Rikudou's Chakra boosted Sasuke's PS from