[Gen] Pekoms

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Reborn

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Shin remained unchanged for a moment. He heard you speak about the jutsu but nothing happened. He punched himself in the kidney hard enough to knock him out of the illusion to see what was going on with you. As a Yamanaka he could sense your chakra but it wasn't sufficiently placed in your ears.

"Baka! You need more chakra, you need to pinpoint my exact location for genjutsu. I utilized two techniques in order to capture you, one of which is a sound technique. Focus your chakra a bit more in your ear, you should be able to hear my very heartbeat and tell how many hop skips and jumps it would take to get to me in whatever direction from you I'm in. THEN you can cast your genjutsu. You need more than a 'general' knowledge of my location."
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

"Heartbeat? You? Well, I suppose that's not the most surprising thing I've heard." After his bit of humor, Koumei returned to what he'd attempted previously, though he also modified his thoughts to align with what Shin-sensei had just said. Once again, Koumei focused solely on his auditory system, whereby he began to knead a small amount of chakra in each of his inner ears. Giving his new endeavor the utmost concentration he could muster, he then began to gradually breath whilst also releasing some chakra too. After several long moments and attempts, to adjust the frequency and sound emitted by his breathing, Koumei was able to soon detect a multitude of different things, all of which where objects reflecting the inaudible sound waves to rebound. It was through this entire process, which Koumei noted was much akin to inner sonar typically used by bats, that he was finally able gauge exactly (more or less) where Shin-sensei was standing. Finally, he formed a single hand-seal and released a large amount of chakra directly towards his mentor, so as to induce him to the same illusion of near-absolute darkness he'd experienced moments ago, via disruption of chakra in Shin-sensei's nervous system.​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

"Smart ass," Shin rebuked at your statement.

"Perhaps he's spent a little too much time with you Shin-san." An ominous voice came from behind Shin. A man in a dark blue gi and red and black stripped shirt approached Shin. He wore a hannya kabuki mask. Shin's vision went completely black in that moment but he already knew who was beside him.

"Shut up, he's been like this since before I got him."


Hannya released Shin from the genjutsu and walked over to you to do the same. Upon regaining your vision, even with your hearing being able to acknowledge him, you'd likely be surprised by awkward appearance.

"Alright, before I go on, this guy is Hannya, the one who'll be teaching you about Sound Release."


"For the time being I will be watching the rest of your training with Shin."
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

"That's great, it's nice to meet you, Hannya-san." Making a mental note, Koumei wondered if this man would be even more intense than Shin-sensei, to which he couldn't resist the compulsion to shudder. "I don't mind spectators, so, you may proceed. What else will be covering, regarding illusions?"​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Hannya gives you a swift knee into the solar plexus to drop you to your knees and have you gasp for a moment.

" 'san'?" Hannya noted the way in which you had addressed him.

"Yeah...Hannya is a bit stricter with respect and discipline than most of us. Make sure you use proper honorifics with him. He is technically your sensei. Try not to piss him off, he won't be as nice as I am."

Hannya walked away and took a seat on the sidelines.

"Alright this concludes the method of concealment, we have 2 more methods, a total of about 8 or so techniques left. Do you have any questions before moving on?"

______________________
( Genjutsu: Kahen Tonsou ) - Illusion Technique: Flower Petal Escape
Rank: D
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 10
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes five handseals, appearing to dissolve into a shower of cherry blossom petals. These petals surround the opponent, blocking his vision. This allows the user to mask his movement effectively.

( Genjutsu: Kasumi no Jutsu ) - Illusion Technique: Mist Technique
Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 15
Damage points: N/A
Description: The user creates an illusionary clone that charges towards the enemy, jumps, then explodes in a cloud of cherry blossom petals which results in confusing the opponent and obscuring their vision, leaving them open for attack.

( Kokuangyo no Jutsu ) - Bringer-of-Darkness Technique
Rank: A
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes one handseal, causing the opponent to believe they have been trapped in a world of infinite darkness, where their sense of sight is useless. It is capable of affecting multiple targets within range. However, it does not negate their other senses.
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms


_______________
I'm trying this thing out with you as the test piggy. Linking trainings and what not. I may inevitably revamp your taijutsu training in a short while and have you learn from Hannya instead but I won't make you go through the stuff we already did.
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Actually I didn't usher you in from the sound thread since you didn't finish that. however we can skip the RP shit if you want and we can just finish up since I believe you only have two methods left. Do you have questions before we get back to the grind?
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Somewhere over the past several months, you said to forget about the joint nature of the two threads (z.z). In any case, I don't have any general questions at present, but will be sure to ask if specific ones come up later.​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

How can genjutsu layering break you from genjutsu?

Explain how you realize you're in the following genjutsu in one, no more than two lines

( Magen: Jubaku Satsu ) - Demonic Illusion: Tree Binding Death
Rank: B
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes five handseals, and appears to dissolve into a mist. Once they stealthily approach the target and get within short-range, the opponent feels completely immobilized, and believes they have been bound by a fast-growing tree and are unable to move. The user then appears as if they emerge from the tree to attack the target. In reality, the target is immobilized, allowing the user to strike or interrogate them.

Explain one way to use the aforementioned technique more discretely.


Now let's work through some recently outlined problems and use reasoning.

S-rank genjutsu is cast upon you but you only have S-rank level surge techniques. However these techniques are special. Which of the following will break you from genjutsu?

a) S-rank elemental surge that does the damage of a Forbidden Rank.
b) S-rank elemental surge that uses the chakra of a Forbidden Rank.
c) Both a & b, they're both forbidden rank in some aspect making it greater than the genjutsu
d) Neither a nor b (and by consequence c), regardless of chakra and damage both are still S-rank and can't break the genjutsu.

You cast an A-rank genjutsu and have two different techniques to increase the power. Which one will yield greater power?
a) A technique increasing the chakra usage for a technique thus giving it the chakra an S-rank technique.
b) A technique increasing the rank for the technique using the same chakra as an A-rank.
c) Both a & b are the same in strength; they both become S-rank in potency due to their chakra enhancement and rank enhancement respectively.
d) Both a & b are the same in strength; they are still A-rank because you need both rank and chakra to increase the rank of the jutsu.

Explain the significance of increasing the numerical damage points of a genjutsu.
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

How can genjutsu layering break you from genjutsu?
I'm not sure if it's the wording, but the question doesn't really make sense. As far as I'm aware (and can rationalize), if I'm the one layering genjutsu, it won't impact any of the illusionary effects distorting stimuli within my own, personal perception. If the question refers to an opponent disrupting genjutsu affecting me, then improperly stacking the two genjutsu could result in only one taking effect if the stronger of the two illusions is cast second. That said, even with this interpretation of the question, improper layering won't "break" me from genjutsu.

Explain how you realize you're in the following genjutsu in one, no more than two lines

( Magen: Jubaku Satsu ) - Demonic Illusion: Tree Binding Death
Rank: B
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes five handseals, and appears to dissolve into a mist. Once they stealthily approach the target and get within short-range, the opponent feels completely immobilized, and believes they have been bound by a fast-growing tree and are unable to move. The user then appears as if they emerge from the tree to attack the target. In reality, the target is immobilized, allowing the user to strike or interrogate them.
1) Realize the user isn't a Mokuton user :| 2) Identify sounds they make (footsteps/unsheathing weapon/etc).

Explain one way to use the aforementioned technique more discretely.
Silent Killing? It would enable the user to maneuver more effectively whilst the opponent is enthralled by the more optical-focused illusion. One would need some sort of sensing/sound technique to promptly identify the user's location.


Now let's work through some recently outlined problems and use reasoning.

S-rank genjutsu is cast upon you but you only have S-rank level surge techniques. However these techniques are special. Which of the following will break you from genjutsu?

a) S-rank elemental surge that does the damage of a Forbidden Rank.
b) S-rank elemental surge that uses the chakra of a Forbidden Rank.
c) Both a & b, they're both forbidden rank in some aspect making it greater than the genjutsu
d) Neither a nor b (and by consequence c), regardless of chakra and damage both are still S-rank and can't break the genjutsu.
I'll go with C. The two most common methods of dispelling illusions are chakra surges and self-damage. In the first case, I feel that a chakra surge using F-Rank level chakra fulfills the "technique that is at least 1 rank higher than the genjutsu set upon you" bit and the "you need to spend more chakra than what was used to induce the illusion" bit, assuming the surge is elemental-based and not raw chakra. In the second case, I suppose it would be conditional upon the user using the surge with the intent to harm themselves and not the opponent, specifically. Ordinarily, surges don't harm the user, but if they could make themselves the recipient of the full effects, I believe it would suffice.

You cast an A-rank genjutsu and have two different techniques to increase the power. Which one will yield greater power?
a) A technique increasing the chakra usage for a technique thus giving it the chakra an S-rank technique.
b) A technique increasing the rank for the technique using the same chakra as an A-rank.
c) Both a & b are the same in strength; they both become S-rank in potency due to their chakra enhancement and rank enhancement respectively.
d) Both a & b are the same in strength; they are still A-rank because you need both rank and chakra to increase the rank of the jutsu.
I'll go with C, again. I'm still unsure of the technicalities in this department, but if I'm correct, I chose this option along the same lines as the previous question.

Explain the significance of increasing the numerical damage points of a genjutsu.
If increased damage doesn't increase the rank potency, then at the very least, it still does more mental damage to the recipient of the illusionary technique. More mental damage would induce greater stress and the like.​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Incorrect. Remember you can inflict genjutsu upon yourself. This is seen canonically in the series and is also practiced widely on the base. Therefore you can disrupt your own flow of chakra or rather, alter your flow of chakra and forcibly manipulate your sense of perception and other senses. Remember genjutsu effects how stimuli are interpenetrated by the brain and how the brain perceives reality. This is the purlely scientific side of it. You can alter your own chakra in such a way that your own brain sees false images or realities. That being said genjutsu layering works just like you go on to explain in regards to the enemy but on one's self. As my son I'm disappointed you haven't even taken up looking into my arsenal or into your grandmother's to discover techniques that do this. If your opponent casts a genjutsu and you cast a genjutsu on yourself, if your technique is 1) higher ranked than theirs and/or 2) same rank and conflicts with theirs, you can overpower the genjutsu your opponent placed on you, thus breaking you from their genjutsu. While specifically not how layering genjutsu is thought of, all you needed to do was think about how layering worked and how to use genjutsu on yourself. Remember this my son.

Inadequate answers

*Yamato or Hashirama or Zetsu or Tobi or Madara uses the jutsu* then what? Secondly, unless you're keen on hearing beyond the sound of the tree sprouting up from behind you (yes it makes sounds) with some sort of sound jutsu, and don't take your Sound training as an escape route, how are you going to hear somebody?

I'll give you another hint as to how to solve this question. Read the first line of the jutsu...

Next question, think about this a bit more after you've re-answered the previous question and then think about how to avoid that blatant flaw in the technique.



You're technically right on the aspect of if somebody is using the a surge to damage themselves. However, I 'm talking purely in the sense of a surge technique and not crossing over into the pain boundary. Based on your answer you'd seem to side more with option b, which is how I answered this question when I was asked about it by another mod. Just as you said the chakra requirement for being superior to the genjutsu is met and thus the chakra used in the surge > than the chakra used in the genjutsu. In that way this is how you can break the illusion with an S-rank, if it has chakra equivalent to F-rank. The damage points of a technique don't have any baring on the chakra being used for the surge technique. an S-rank using 40 chakra points but doing like 100 damage does nothing to combat the genjutsu. In this case you have a increase in power where you are able to squeeze out greater power from minimal chaka requirements. This doesn't really play well with how genjutsu works. That was my reasoning.

This second question I thought of since it is something that could likely happen in the future based on the nature of the first question. An actual situation of this happening hasn't been brought to my attention yet but it could. I was a bit inconclusive with this question and am still discussing it with other prominent genjutsu specialists and some of the mods. Similarly to how Ninjutsu seems to be a rank and damage based system, I feel genjutsu is a chakra and rank based system. Increase the rank of a genjutsu, is like increasing the potency of your jutsu. It may have the same chakra but the potency is that of an 1+ rank. Again, increasing the chakra and we increase the amount of input that the victim has to override. This is the line I'm looking at and I'll likely look to other opinions so it remains consistent.

You are correct, but in our current system ignored. Mental damage isn't quantified unless you have a clause that further hinders your opponent. It doesn't increase rank nor does it increase the chakra and I feel like the potency. It doesn't effect genjutsu in the same way it effects ninjutsu.
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

Incorrect. Remember you can inflict genjutsu upon yourself. This is seen canonically in the series and is also practiced widely on the base. Therefore you can disrupt your own flow of chakra or rather, alter your flow of chakra and forcibly manipulate your sense of perception and other senses. Remember genjutsu effects how stimuli are interpenetrated by the brain and how the brain perceives reality. This is the purlely scientific side of it. You can alter your own chakra in such a way that your own brain sees false images or realities. That being said genjutsu layering works just like you go on to explain in regards to the enemy but on one's self. As my son I'm disappointed you haven't even taken up looking into my arsenal or into your grandmother's to discover techniques that do this. If your opponent casts a genjutsu and you cast a genjutsu on yourself, if your technique is 1) higher ranked than theirs and/or 2) same rank and conflicts with theirs, you can overpower the genjutsu your opponent placed on you, thus breaking you from their genjutsu. While specifically not how layering genjutsu is thought of, all you needed to do was think about how layering worked and how to use genjutsu on yourself. Remember this my son.

Inadequate answers

*Yamato or Hashirama or Zetsu or Tobi or Madara uses the jutsu* then what? Secondly, unless you're keen on hearing beyond the sound of the tree sprouting up from behind you (yes it makes sounds) with some sort of sound jutsu, and don't take your Sound training as an escape route, how are you going to hear somebody?

I'll give you another hint as to how to solve this question. Read the first line of the jutsu...

Next question, think about this a bit more after you've re-answered the previous question and then think about how to avoid that blatant flaw in the technique.
Unless it's some obscure filler, I can't recall anybody actually placing themselves under an illusion. I don't particularly care about other people's customs, but if I recall, Lili's Surreal Palm involves a process along those lines. Regardless, I can't find faultless merit in your explanation regarding the usage of self-induced genjutsu. In many cases, it would be nothing short of god-modding to properly identify the rank of an opponent's illusion, especially custom ones. Moreover, people with ocular abilities or keen chakra sensing could potentially identify new irregularities in the target's chakra and exploit the situation to apply addition genjutsu. NB rules limit the user from applying more than two illusions to an individual, but that doesn't account for subsequent illusions induced by the victim, themselves. I'd tentatively theorize that smart individuals would be fully capable of capitalizing on this. Overall, it's certainly a useful method and requires less chakra expenditure than the more mainstream methods of releasing illusions, but its very existence primarily caters to genjutsu 'masters/specialists' much more than 'everybody'.

Moving on, I genuinely fail to see anything overly questionable about the first line. Many techniques require hand-seals, so that clearly isn't an issue. If you're drawing attention to the latter half of the sentence, then I still see no blatant issue. Members of the Hozuki clan have the ability to turn into water, and there are many CJ and CEJ that allow people to spontaneously turn into elements and what not. There are canon water techniques that utilize mist, so the possibility of somebody "dissolving into mist" can't be immediately discredited without god-modding.​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

I'm going to backhand you but I won't disown you. Every son has an audacious side to them. Not caring about people's customs is all fine and good. Choose not to learn or understand the way people construct their techniques and intend to use them at your own leisure. Everybody in this RP is a potential opponent and caring enough about an opponent's technique to simply understand how it works, how it's intended to be used, and how it could potentially affect you in a fight is nothing less than common sense. Being an RP mod makes it harder to ignore the nature of customs. Simply because you aren't one doesn't really excuse you considering you've been around enough of our conversations to understand.

Nothing short of god-modding? Tell me how it's any different than somebody using any other jutsu of any rank and another combating against it with something of equivalent or greater rank yet "In game" they shouldn't know the level of their opponent's technique. Your words are applicable to any and all technique usage in our RP. Canon techniques and learned customs people can claim "well I've learned this thus I know the effects and it's rank and can counter accordingly" and avoid it such and such a way. However for techniques unknown to others it's the same situation you're claiming is a fault in this method. Our entire system possesses this flaw and to point it out specifically in the case of genjutsu is fallacious.

What exactly is the point of mentioning the ocular powers or sensory perception of your opponents in this regard? How is the situation different for any other method of genjutsu release? Dojutsu users, chakra sensors, if they can see/sense your chakra they can see whenever you release their illusion and thus react accordingly. Kai, external infusion, surge, even pain, anything that causes fluctuation in the chakra is observable with such abilities unless said abilities are blinded. Once again, applicable to all situations of genjutsu. The point was not to say that this method didn't possess that flaw, merely that it is something that exists for you to use if you are capable and wish to experiment with it or are even forced to use such a method over another.

Tell me where you received the idea that only two genjutsu can be placed on somebody at any given time. You can place as many illusions on top of another as you can get away with so long as they follow the layering rules. The only authority I'd even consider saying otherwise would be from Scorps. The number generally is two since people will first and foremost try to break genjutsu the moment it's cast on them, however in the rules outline there is nothing explicitly stating 2 is the maximum number of genjutsu that can be placed on somebody. Also as you say you don't see this as being used by anybody but genjutsu specialists and masters. I train people with the intent of making them specialists or masters, at the very least to have the competency of one when it comes to using, combating, and creating their own techniques.

Yes I am pointing to the latter half and it's something to pay attention to the actual technique as it was used in the canon material. The technique says "dissolves into a mist" ordinarily you could get away with your justification if you didn't have a reference point to go on. Both manga and anime we see just exactly HOW kurenai used the technique and how she dissolves. It's hardly something you can equivocate to Hozuki members turning their bodies into mist or even people turning into a physical manifestation of mist. Her entire physical being disappeared unlike in any of the examples you gave to try and justify. You'd have been better regarding customs where similar occurrence of kurenai's and this techniques specific type of disappearance occur. Most of those sort of techniques come with the "can only be seen by dojutsu" clause which means at any level of dojutsu you are able to see this technique. In this genjutsu, 1t, 2t, and Byagugan don't possess the inherit ability to still see the physical chakra of the person once they disappear. 3t and above have absolutely no problem peering through this technique and you can't even use visual gen on Rinnegan users anymore. Point is, the part of the description I referred to is a much simpler and a more plausible means of adequately deducing this technique than what you proposed.

That being said, the next part I was suggesting that, if your opponent couldn't see you to begin with in order to see your body disappear the technique can be initiated easier and without that flaw in place. This is a juggling matter with me since the technique describes seeing the user disappear but that's also under the assumption the genjutsu is being cast while the user is in plain sight. If the user isn't in sight could that first part of the genjutsu be erased completely and it just skip to the creation of the tree behind the user? I'm saying yes but that's up for interpretation and discussion (but it's not that serious).

Anything else?
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

No, I just felt like irking you, and I'd say things worked out better than anticipated. Even if it required provoking you, it was the most efficient way to get everything clearly answered in a concise manner. You can always ask for my opinions and possibly even seek them, but I don't actually have many to begin with. RP mods are the smurf arbiters of most things, so gleaning information from you lot via nice, blunt chunks of text is ideal. Of course, I won't always be so heartless (though it's been fun). <3​
 

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Re: [Genjutsu] Pekoms

No, I just felt like irking you, and I'd say things worked out better than anticipated. Even if it required provoking you, it was the most efficient way to get everything clearly answered in a concise manner. You can always ask for my opinions and possibly even seek them, but I don't actually have many to begin with. RP mods are the smurf arbiters of most things, so gleaning information from you lot via nice, blunt chunks of text is ideal. Of course, I won't always be so heartless (though it's been fun). <3​
You're grounded for a month.

Somebody remind me to unban him from this thread in a few days, I'm likely to forget I even did this.
 
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New technique

( Genjutsu: Shibari ) - Illusionary Arts: Binding

Type: Supplementary
Rank: C - A
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 15 - 30
Damage: N/A
Description: A very simple yet powerful paralysis genjutsu. The user will cast an illusion which sole purpose is to restrict and paralyze he target. The technique can be cast on more than one opponent at a time, though with the cost of power. The stronger the user is in genjutsu determines how strong their technique is. Non-genjutsu specialists can only cast only use the C-ranked version of this technique and use it on up to two others making the hold D-rank for each individual person. Users with genjutsu as their secondary specialty can use the B-ranked version of this technique and cast the jutsu on a maximum of three people. Users with genjutsu as their primary specialty can use the A-ranked version of this technique and cast the technique on a maximum of three people. Members who specialize in genjutsu are immune to this technique being placed upon them on others with a lower skill level than them; i.e a users with a secondary specialty can't use this on a primary specialist, only those of equivalent rank or lower can be caught with this technique.

Impressions on it, questions, exploitables, ect.
 

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New technique

( Genjutsu: Shibari ) - Illusionary Arts: Binding

Type: Supplementary
Rank: C - A
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 15 - 30
Damage: N/A
Description: A very simple yet powerful paralysis genjutsu. The user will cast an illusion which sole purpose is to restrict and paralyze he target. The technique can be cast on more than one opponent at a time, though with the cost of power. The stronger the user is in genjutsu determines how strong their technique is. Non-genjutsu specialists can only cast only use the C-ranked version of this technique and use it on up to two others making the hold D-rank for each individual person. Users with genjutsu as their secondary specialty can use the B-ranked version of this technique and cast the jutsu on a maximum of three people. Users with genjutsu as their primary specialty can use the A-ranked version of this technique and cast the technique on a maximum of three people. Members who specialize in genjutsu are immune to this technique being placed upon them on others with a lower skill level than them; i.e a users with a secondary specialty can't use this on a primary specialist, only those of equivalent rank or lower can be caught with this technique.

Impressions on it, questions, exploitables, ect.
It seems kinda weak for those opting to specialize in other fields than genjutsu. What motions are required to initiate the technique? What will the illusion actually look like? The description mentions being able to cast the illusion on more than one opponent, but how many and does it count as an additional move per targeted individual? Is this a full body paralysis, or can the victim retain control of their mouth?​
 
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