[Discussion] Overrating Hashirama

[psukkar]

Look, I can see you think I'm just some Uchiha fanboy. I'm not. I've admitted that Hashirama was stronger than Madara, and that he was one of the strongest shinobi ever (I don't like ranking them since nothing is certain in battle situations). But what we're seeing here is an enhanced, altered power. It is different to what it would have been when the two fought years ago.
And I will admit that what we saw of him against Hiruzen probably wasn't even close to his real power, it's still closer to a pure reflection of how he was when he was alive.

Madirama, or whatever you wanna call it, is a freakish experiment that seems to have been a complete success...he's scarily powerful. But it's not the same as Hashirama

U missed the point of my post.


Answer me this,

How can you make wood jutsu stronger(like ur saying with edo madara) when Kabuto combined it with madara's cells, if Madara isnt able to use wood jutsu?


By the way Im talking about the wood jutsu edo madara has shown only.

 

[Uchiha Madara.]

1st hokage > EMS madara
New Madara > 1st hokage

 

[yeahhh]

1st hokage > EMS madara
New Madara > 1st hokage

Lol, your little comparison is irrelevant..the Madara we see now has been altered by Orochimaru to be this powerful...so saying that Madara is stronger than Hashirama now is a little retarded..since this power is not his and Hashirama is dead. No doubt Madara was strong in his Prime, but he was beaten by Hashirama no matter how you look at it. Sure Madara fought Hashirama to obtain his DNA in order to gain the Rinnegan, but it cost him his life.

 

[madara san]

U missed the point of my post.


Answer me this,

How can you make wood jutsu stronger(like ur saying with edo madara) when Kabuto combined it with madara's cells, if Madara isnt able to use wood jutsu?


By the way Im talking about the wood jutsu edo madara has shown only.

Well that's what I'd like to know. I don't know what they did to his body. That's the only reason I speculated on the Rinnegan's effect. All their research is mysterious, but we know they worked with the eyes and the senju DNA...

All we know is what has been shown of the jutsu's power. Thus far the edo Madara has demonstrated much more power than the previous resurrection did. That's the only proof the manga has shown of the Mokuton's power before this, aside from the conjecture of other characters hailing Hashirama as the best thing ever...I suspect this WAS true (most powerful shinobi will be determined in this war, the way things are going anyway)
BUT on the evidence, the new edo Madara is more powerful than what we actually know of Hashirama

 

[Bazarrow]

But the new Madara is an edo and he is not in his prime, this is just a word by kabuto. The usage of edo is just boring. Maybe there is an important fault on Edo Tensai. Think about Edo Pain, totsuka sword was enough to embarrass him. Sorry for bad English

 

[madara san]

But the new Madara is an edo and he is not in his prime, this is just a word by kabuto. The usage of edo is just boring. Maybe there is an important fault on Edo Tensai. Think about Edo Pain, totsuka sword was enough to embarrass him. Sorry for bad English

Did Kabuto not say he was made into a state that was beyond his prime?

 

[Uchiha Madara.]

Lol, your little comparison is irrelevant..the Madara we see now has been altered by Orochimaru to be this powerful...so saying that Madara is stronger than Hashirama now is a little retarded..since this power is not his and Hashirama is dead. No doubt Madara was strong in his Prime, but he was beaten by Hashirama no matter how you look at it. Sure Madara fought Hashirama to obtain his DNA in order to gain the Rinnegan, but it cost him his life.

fine 1s hokage > ems madara

Rinnegan madara > 1st hokage

this power was his it wasnt created by kabuto madara even said so himself

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[Bazarrow]

Yes he said but kill Naruto and take his cells or dna. Can you merge him with an uchiha budy. Of course. But will the new one become more powerful than naruto and if you think for edo. I think it is impossible.

 

[Reborn]

I doubt anybody here is suggestiong Hashirama is still superior to the Madara we see right now. Kabuto basically was saying that Hashirama was like the Sage of his time, I doubt he was saying that he was a match for the Sage.

He was saying he was better then Madara then, Madara is the only person to come close enough to second that power and now Madara is the full package...well if he had he bijuu then he'd be the full package.

However nobody thinks Hashi could mess what Edo Madara has right now. He'd definately be helpful to other five kage, that's for sure, but no.

Also the comparison made about Hiruzen fighting against him and Tobirama, I highly doubt Kishi expected to make this big a rep for the first at that point in time, other wise it would've been complete rape, We didn't even see a fraction of what Hahirama is rumored/hyped to be able to do in that fight so it's not a vaild testiment of his full powers I believe.

 

[madara san]

I'd imagine Naruto with a sharingan would be more powerful than Naruto without one...? Hypothetically. I mean, if you have a large amount of jutsus and enough chakra to use them you're basically powerful. Combining the DNA of different shinobis basically combines abilities. If someone has more abilities and enough chakra to use them then they are more powerful than someone with a limited selection (generally speaking)
I think that's what's going on with the new/edo Madara/Hashirama hybrid

 

[OWanime]

yeah I agree people are getting confused because this is not hashirama's powers it's like hashimadara's so he's op xd

 

[StrifeMaccy]

Whats next u think the uchiha are better at using the sharingan the so6p the original that the bloodline belonged too.
.

I imagine the Uchiha are, as the S06p had the Rinnengan and not the sharingan.

I agree, Hashirama was a mightily powerful Ninja, no doubt, with only really Madara as a rival in power. But what we've seeing from Madara might not neccessarily reflect what exactly Hashirama could do, unless Kabuto fully explains the extent of "improving" madara. As it seems to be a highly successful fusion with Madara and Hashirama, I'd say the wood style Madara is using will be of a similiar level to Hashiramas, as its pretty much the combination of them two with Madaras mind in control

 

[madara san]

i imagine the uchiha are, as the s06p had the rinnengan and not the sharingan.

I agree, hashirama was a mightily powerful ninja, no doubt, with only really madara as a rival in power. But what we've seeing from madara might not neccessarily reflect what exactly hashirama could do, unless kabuto fully explains the extent of "improving" madara. As it seems to be a highly successful fusion with madara and hashirama, i'd say the wood style madara is using will be of a similiar level to hashiramas, as its pretty much the combination of them two with madaras mind in control

yes!

 

[Bazarrow]

I agree and there is something too. You know Danzo when he fought with Sasuke. He was not able to control the power of the Hashırama. Maybe after some time when he will be enough tired, he can lose control of the Hashirama, and then we will see the previous scenario as in Danzo vs Sasuke. There is not enough information about the Edo tensai

 

[madara san]

Madara should have powerful enough chakra not to let that happen. I'd like to see Itachi reveal the jutsu's weakness, because right now what Kabuto said seems to be true

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[arv993]

Its madrama not hashimadara lol to Owanime

 

[Easyfathom]

I think you are in serious denial :|

The fact that it was recently stated just shows how much you are. He did use his abilities to this scale, you can see that from manga fights.

Your OP just states thoughts and opinions. Quite rubbish assumptions at that.

Welcome for yesterday

 

[UnrealSoul]

Lets put it like this with the overrating.If hiruzen was called the God Of Shinobi,then he by far must have been more powerful then the 1st.We still need to learn more about all of them.I like Madara due to his power and the legend he created within his name.It brings war alone by its self.Lets be real about this and put the fanboy crap aside...

1st hokage>EMS Madara>anyone less then him
Edo Madara>1st hokage>anyone less then him

Both of these shinobis were Gods of War in narutoverse.It came down to the 1st being slightly stronger then madara at his prime,but remember what I say now.If Madara had progressed to the rinnegan before his first fight with hashirama,then he would have been the victor.Only one brother can be slightly stronger then the other.

P.s. I know their not really brothers but they fought as close friends/comrades in the war with both of their clans on their backs.

 

[JMAN]

A couple of things. First, ET Madara has been enhanced beyond his golden age/prime by Kabuto somehow, so we don't know how that's affecting the power of ET Madara's Mokutoun jutsu aside from enhancing them. However, ET Madara has only a portion of Hashirama's strength as stated here, and verified on the next page:

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Thus, it's a confound to compare an enhanced fraction of Hashirama's strength to Hashirama's full strength, that we can't ever compare without seeing the original fight at the Valley of the End between Hashirama and Madara when they were alive generations ago.

Trying to compare ET Hashirama's power to ET Madara's Mokutoun power is a fallacy as Orochimaru's IWR is not as powerful as Kabuto's, given that Kabuto has perfected the jutsu, which clearly means Orochimaru was using a lesser version.

Finally, I see no reason why the Rinnegan has anything to with the efficacy of the Mokutoun jutsu ET Madara is using. If you could explain that argument, I would be interested. It's never been stated to have the ability to enhance powers of the Senju/Uchiha before, nor why would it? First, the Rikudou Sennin existed before the Uchiha. Second, if the EMS->Rinnegan under some circumstance, why would that have anything to do with Hashirama Senju's power? Please explain that.

Peace

I think when kabuto mentions that this ET Madara is better than the golden age/prime Madara, he is refering to the DNA of 1st hokage added to the ET body.

People are saying that now it is sure that Hashirama was the strongest hokage because kabuto said that Ninja's like Hashirama don't exist anymore ( strength wise ) . I think he means that no ninja alive would be stronger than Hashirama but not the dead ninjas like Minato , Sarutobi , 3rd Raikage etc ...