[Discussion] Overrating Hashirama

[madara san]

Are people not jumping the gun a little with their praise of Hashirama? Sure he was great n'all..but what we're seeing here is a combination of his powers, with Madara's and topped off with a Rinnegan!! This is surely way better than Hashirama could have ever achieved in his lifetime.

His chakra is immense, true, and the mokuton is impressive in its scale, but the destructive power that edo Madara is displaying is probably a lot more than Hashirama could have managed while he was alive.

People seem to be forgetting how he fared against Hiruzen when he was resurrected by Oro...that wasn't nearly as impressive. The Rinnegan must be enhancing Madara's own abilities and the one's he has inherited from the Senju DNA...

That's not to say I don't think he is/was one of the greatest shinobi ever, but I just don't think what we are seeing is a realistic picture of what he would have been like during his lifetime

 

[99minutes]

I like your argument. +rep =DD
I'm getting tired of saying this:

Kishi, Y U NO give attention to Senju?

You must be registered for see images

 

[Naruto N. Uzumaki]

.part one the edo where fail and everybody is after the 1st dna and his strength was considered a fairy tale with the s06p that says it all. plus kabuto said he only got a small part of the 1st strength

 

[Blaze Release]

I agree that kabuto exaggerated his powers when he somewhat compared it with the sage, but nevertheless it was said that he was stronger than ems madara.

The only 3 people who should beat him is edo madara, tobi and nagato

 

[TheSages456]

shodai could definitely use flower mokuton. how the hell is the rinnegan gonna enhance mokuton. madara can use mokuton like hashirama because they are combined. mind you hashirama can use mokuton to an even greater extent than madara.

 

[The Work]

No....Madara died to get Rinnegan....Which means...Hashirima still is boss :3

 

[Rike Senju]

Manga>your words. Kabuto stated hashirama's immense power and rinnegan does not enhance abilities until proven by the manga.

 

[bahram]

Are people not jumping the gun a little with their praise of Hashirama? Sure he was great n'all..but what we're seeing here is a combination of his powers, with Madara's and topped off with a Rinnegan!! This is surely way better than Hashirama could have ever achieved in his lifetime.

His chakra is immense, true, and the mokuton is impressive in its scale, but the destructive power that edo Madara is displaying is probably a lot more than Hashirama could have managed while he was alive.

People seem to be forgetting how he fared against Hiruzen when he was resurrected by Oro...that wasn't nearly as impressive. The Rinnegan must be enhancing Madara's own abilities and the one's he has inherited from the Senju DNA...

That's not to say I don't think he is/was one of the greatest shinobi ever, but I just don't think what we are seeing is a realistic picture of what he would have been like during his lifetime

shodai hokage was being controlled by oro when he was fighting hiruzen
he wasn't free like edo madara

 

[Trigrams 64 palms]

Are people not jumping the gun a little with their praise of Hashirama? Sure he was great n'all..but what we're seeing here is a combination of his powers, with Madara's and topped off with a Rinnegan!! This is surely way better than Hashirama could have ever achieved in his lifetime.

His chakra is immense, true, and the mokuton is impressive in its scale, but the destructive power that edo Madara is displaying is probably a lot more than Hashirama could have managed while he was alive.

People seem to be forgetting how he fared against Hiruzen when he was resurrected by Oro...that wasn't nearly as impressive. The Rinnegan must be enhancing Madara's own abilities and the one's he has inherited from the Senju DNA...

That's not to say I don't think he is/was one of the greatest shinobi ever, but I just don't think what we are seeing is a realistic picture of what he would have been like during his lifetime

Completely agree about this. I don't understand at all how you can judge his greatness by how well his dead self is doing in anothers body. Also I'm a little confused that Mei didn't just use lava release and burn every flower and piece of wood in the area. Feel like the 1st would have trouble with a heavy fire user aganist wood even with his water affinity.

Didn't expect the outburst about the 1st at all until like 6 threads were made of him. I'm sure he is extremely powerful but I would like to see him not be controlled by any one by himself. Madara V 1st will show how smart he is a nd his true strength.

 

[bahram]

and don't forget that hashiram has defeated madara+kyuubi

 

[The Riddlerr]

Guys Kabuto also said he had enhanced Madara's powers to beyond his prime...

 

[AbukariDogMan]

madar fanboys are butthurt

 

[madara san]

OK...the manga has also stated that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, and there are always references to the growth that's still occurring in the shinobi world. Sasuke and Naruto being the obvious ones...I reckon they'll both surpass Madara and Hashirama respectively

My point was simply that people seemed to be going overboard a little, just like they were when Sasuke reemerged...
I do believe Hashirama was more powerful than Madara (He beat him...)
But the sense I'm getting from looking at these recent threads is that people now think after one display of Mokuton, Hashirama was an unbeatable god! it's just kind of annoying...

 

[psukkar]

Are people not jumping the gun a little with their praise of Hashirama? Sure he was great n'all..but what we're seeing here is a combination of his powers, with Madara's and topped off with a Rinnegan!! This is surely way better than Hashirama could have ever achieved in his lifetime.

His chakra is immense, true, and the mokuton is impressive in its scale, but the destructive power that edo Madara is displaying is probably a lot more than Hashirama could have managed while he was alive.

People seem to be forgetting how he fared against Hiruzen when he was resurrected by Oro...that wasn't nearly as impressive. The Rinnegan must be enhancing Madara's own abilities and the one's he has inherited from the Senju DNA...

That's not to say I don't think he is/was one of the greatest shinobi ever, but I just don't think what we are seeing is a realistic picture of what he would have been like during his lifetime

sorry to be harsh but ur a noob. Ur in denial dude, everyone character strong character in the series has prasied him and after seeing some his wood jutsu u still think madara is better capable at using the wood jutsu than the original.

Whats next u think the uchiha are better at using the sharingan the so6p the original that the bloodline belonged too.


There's a reason why all the villains want hasihrama's powers this is it. Stop being ignorat.

I love the comparaion of the edo tensei used against the thrid hokage, not only we know hasihrama is far stroinger than that but orocihmaru admitted the summons were toying with the third hokage. And hence the third pulled out a sullicde tech to end the summons.

 

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

madara san

madara san

madara san

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The funniest part is that not only this guy is butthurt but actually the real Madara was butthurt for the same reasons as well xD (being inferior to Hashi).

 

[madara san]

madara san

madara san

madara san

Yes?

 

[madara san]

sorry to be harsh but ur a noob. Ur in denial dude, everyone character strong character in the series has prasied him and after seeing some his wood jutsu u still think madara is better capable at using the wood jutsu than the original.

Whats next u think the uchiha are better at using the sharingan the so6p the original that the bloodline belonged too.


There's a reason why all the villains want hasihrama's powers this is it. Stop being ignorat.

I love the comparaion of the edo tensei used against the thrid hokage, not only we know hasihrama is far stroinger than that but orocihmaru admitted the summons were toying with the third hokage. And hence the third pulled out a sullicde tech to end the summons.

Look, I can see you think I'm just some Uchiha fanboy. I'm not. I've admitted that Hashirama was stronger than Madara, and that he was one of the strongest shinobi ever (I don't like ranking them since nothing is certain in battle situations). But what we're seeing here is an enhanced, altered power. It is different to what it would have been when the two fought years ago.
And I will admit that what we saw of him against Hiruzen probably wasn't even close to his real power, it's still closer to a pure reflection of how he was when he was alive.

Madirama, or whatever you wanna call it, is a freakish experiment that seems to have been a complete success...he's scarily powerful. But it's not the same as Hashirama

 

[leafeater]

Are people not jumping the gun a little with their praise of Hashirama? Sure he was great n'all..but what we're seeing here is a combination of his powers, with Madara's and topped off with a Rinnegan!! This is surely way better than Hashirama could have ever achieved in his lifetime.

His chakra is immense, true, and the mokuton is impressive in its scale, but the destructive power that edo Madara is displaying is probably a lot more than Hashirama could have managed while he was alive.

People seem to be forgetting how he fared against Hiruzen when he was resurrected by Oro...that wasn't nearly as impressive. The Rinnegan must be enhancing Madara's own abilities and the one's he has inherited from the Senju DNA...

That's not to say I don't think he is/was one of the greatest shinobi ever, but I just don't think what we are seeing is a realistic picture of what he would have been like during his lifetime

A couple of things. First, ET Madara has been enhanced beyond his golden age/prime by Kabuto somehow, so we don't know how that's affecting the power of ET Madara's Mokutoun jutsu aside from enhancing them. However, ET Madara has only a portion of Hashirama's strength as stated here, and verified on the next page:

You must be registered for see links

Thus, it's a confound to compare an enhanced fraction of Hashirama's strength to Hashirama's full strength, that we can't ever compare without seeing the original fight at the Valley of the End between Hashirama and Madara when they were alive generations ago.

Trying to compare ET Hashirama's power to ET Madara's Mokutoun power is a fallacy as Orochimaru's IWR is not as powerful as Kabuto's, given that Kabuto has perfected the jutsu, which clearly means Orochimaru was using a lesser version.

Finally, I see no reason why the Rinnegan has anything to with the efficacy of the Mokutoun jutsu ET Madara is using. If you could explain that argument, I would be interested. It's never been stated to have the ability to enhance powers of the Senju/Uchiha before, nor why would it? First, the Rikudou Sennin existed before the Uchiha. Second, if the EMS->Rinnegan under some circumstance, why would that have anything to do with Hashirama Senju's power? Please explain that.

Peace

 

[TheOriginal]

This is only proportion of Hashirama's strength, Hashirama > Madara + Kyuubi, which means he really lived up to his hype, and Rinnegan can't enchant Mokutoun's power. Edo Madara is an experiment.

 

[madara san]

A couple of things. First, ET Madara has been enhanced beyond his golden age/prime by Kabuto somehow, so we don't know how that's affecting the power of ET Madara's Mokutoun jutsu aside from enhancing them. However, ET Madara has only a portion of Hashirama's strength as stated here, and verified on the next page:

You must be registered for see links

Thus, it's a confound to compare an enhanced fraction of Hashirama's strength to Hashirama's full strength, that we can't ever compare without seeing the original fight at the Valley of the End between Hashirama and Madara when they were alive generations ago.

Trying to compare ET Hashirama's power to ET Madara's Mokutoun power is a fallacy as Orochimaru's IWR is not as powerful as Kabuto's, given that Kabuto has perfected the jutsu, which clearly means Orochimaru was using a lesser version.

Finally, I see no reason why the Rinnegan has anything to with the efficacy of the Mokutoun jutsu ET Madara is using. If you could explain that argument, I would be interested. It's never been stated to have the ability to enhance powers of the Senju/Uchiha before, nor why would it? First, the Rikudou Sennin existed before the Uchiha. Second, if the EMS->Rinnegan under some circumstance, why would that have anything to do with Hashirama Senju's power? Please explain that.

Peace

Yeah, the Rinnegan was just an idea. I haven't any proof to back it up, but perhaps its ability to allow for mastery of all ninjutsu could play a factor?

Also, that page of the manga refers to Madara's own retrieval of Hashirama's power before his death. It doesn't refer to what Orochimaru/Kabuto did to enhance this power further. Whatever was done by them is what I believe is making Madara so powerful.

Again, I want to state, I am not trying to say Hashirama is less powerful than Madara or any other shinobi.
Just that what we are seeing is not an accurate reflection of what he could do during his lifetime.

(Also, this was just an initial thought I had after seeing all the recent threads...thanks for your constructive criticism though)