Orochimaru vs Hidan and Kakuzu

Brother Numpsay

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or happens to Hidan and he gets neutralised for the whole battle, paralysed and disposed of.

He is literally useless here.
Can you stop? Posting scans of Orochimaru doing something doesn't automatically translate to replicating the scenario with no back up claims on why it would work on a particular character.

Though I shouldn't except any legitimate comments from you concerning Orochimaru anyway. Especially on a recent debate thread. So I'm not going to take your post seriously right now.
 

Nattana

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Can you stop? Posting scans of Orochimaru doing something doesn't automatically translate to replicating the scenario with no back up claims on why it would work on a particular character.

Though I shouldn't except any legitimate comments from you concerning Orochimaru anyway. Especially on a recent debate thread. So I'm not going to take your post seriously right now.
You should learn to distinguish fun comments from normal ones.

And actually it's you who cannot back up your claims, especially that Snake Hands and Snake Glare were shown to have great binding power:

1) Stopped Enma and immobilized him for the whole fight.
2) Snake Glare stopped Suigetsu and raging Juugo.
3) Snake Glare stopped raging KN4 chakra hand.
4) Snake Hands stopped accelerated God Tree's branch. Point blank.

But of course you will continue to sprout your bullshti. Hidan has no way of defending against this. All he has is Bukijutsu and his Ritual, which are useless against binding power of the snakes. And also their poison.

Better find some arguments before talking about 'legitimate comments'.
 

KidGamer65

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Not convince Oro can block it with just his arms.
Where are the feats that prove otherwise?



Are you skipping around my point that this feat only was capable with Sharingan anticipation which Orochimaru lacks?
This is why you Akatsuki supporters aren't taken serious. Yes I'm ignoring your point because it's irrelevant. In a scenario where Kakashi was forced into a disadvantageous position by Hidan and was hit almost point blank in mid air he needed his Sharingan. That's not a speed feat for Atsugai. "Dodging Atsugai needs Sharingan" is a nonsense argument so please don't start with that.

Lol no absolutely not. And KN3 absolutely does not have the feats to physically make that strike, making a crater around him. @Bold: [ ] look at the explosion. No way that was a physical strike. At least not by feats backing it up that it was.
What in the world are you talking about? KN3 only has physical strikes. Thus it was a physical strike. "KN3 doesn't have the feats to make that strike" is a nonsense argument when the only feats it has shown in the matter are the ones you are writing off with no logical basis. What do you mean "look at the explosion"? That explosion is the same type of explosion that occurred when KN4 swung his hand. A physical attack.


Except that isnt proof that he can take this jutsu. Since you already agree that KN1 attack power isnt near Futon then theres no reason to mention tanking that attack.
-Orochimaru's far more durable than average.
-Atusgai can't hurt Hidan.
-Thus Atsugai doesn't have the feats to kill Orochimaru with one hit. Stop saying "tanking" because that implies something completely different than what I'm arguing.

Then you mentioned KN3 where you have no evidence that KN3 attack was physical, even if it was (which it was clearly not), can only prove that the attack was only capable of landing directly towards Oro's arm. And that also isnt proof unless he actually tanked it.
Says the attack wasn't physical=/=Doesn't provide evidence.

:lol Cause I'm gonna take your word for it. Fact of the matter is, KN3 attacked, Orochimaru got away with only a missing arm. There is no reason to believe he dodged the attack because if he dodged the attack he wouldn't have any damage.

Then you have the fact that Hidan defying the attacks nature doesnt mean Orochimaru can tank the jutsu. Not a chance.
Stop it. Don't bring this shit argument back here. Hidan being able to move with internal damage doesn't change the fact he had no external damage. So I'm still gonna wait for the feats that let Atsugai kill Orochimaru in one shot, because they don't exist. You are basically saying "Atsugai kills him in one shot because I want it to". :lol



That comment was talking about Katon+Futon combo.

And I already stated he'd probably need to dodge that.

Didnt you argued not too long ago that multiple doesn't imply only capable of just 2 in the manga? 8 head = 8 bolts to the brain. Once Orochimaru comes out his next, along with blood exposed cause by the bolts used against Hydra.
Which jutsu was it? :lol. Oh wait, not Gian. So when you have scans of 8 bolts being shot we can talk. You people really need to learn how to read the databook and use common sense DB states that Gian can be fired in multiple blasts, the Manga has shown 2. Where is the evidence he can make 8?


Question[ ]: Does this prove that Rin can intercept a Chidori blitz from the same range Kakashi attempted against that Mist ninja? I still dont understand that logic that someone taking the bullet, away from the scene, means they can also dodge it.
We have no idea where Rin started from, but we do know that Kakashi wasn't anywhere near Shikamaru and Choji when he blocked attack attack.
But yes I agree with your counters if Oro sees it charging, not when it actually is released.
He dodges regardless. No speed feats for Gian to say it blitzes him. None at all.

@Bold: Exaggerate much? Though the only opponent we seen it against was Choji and Shiki, they still couldnt avoid the speed of the attack. And based on DB, lightning nature is easily faster then those 2 jutsu you mentioned. So Oro most def have to block it.
So because Choji and Shikamaru, 2 characters with terrible below average speed going by DB and feats couldn't evade Gian you are allowed to claim Orochimaru, far stronger, far faster with far better feats, doesn't dodge? :lol Let's be serious here. Gian being easily faster than Bijuu Dama is also based on nothing. DB states it's fast. This is why all arguments supporting Kakuzu are ridiculed, because you guys love to exaggerate the meaning of simple words in place of actual feats.

"oh cuz it's lightning it's automatically faster"

Lmao. Come on now.



Really KG? Hidan jutsu needs droplet...
If only a few drops hit the ground where Oro is standing, ignoring the fact that he won't get near Orochimaru to actually collect said blood in the first place, how is he going to get it off the ground and onto his scythe? That's like trying to get water that has spilled onto the ground, especially since they are on earth and not concrete or something like that.


Then Ill agree with the spacing your premised uses bar Shaodw Clones as clones end up benefiting Hidan here. And what happens Oro makes enough space here? None of these jutsu are going to put enough pressure for Hidan to get decapitated.
They aren't meant to decapitate him. Once he's bound and while he's being attacked Orochimaru extends Kusanagi like he did against KN4 and splits him in two.
Scan was illustrating being surrounded by snake hands is not an issue and that their heads get penetrated on contact. Killing them off and continuously pursuing Oro. Even better, using them as a platform.
Which doesn't work when Orochimaru is right in his face.


1st I just want to point that out that Kakashi=Oro. And DB stated Asuma is the best Close Quarters in Konoaha (comparing all Jonins and bar powers up obv). And that scenario already happened here via Asuma and Shiki's faster shadow, making it irrelevant to Hidan CQC skills.
Which doesn't matter for the reasons already stated. And no, that scenario obviously didn't happen because the guy actually fighting in CQC wasn't using Ninjutsu. :lol


Addressed. Im actually surprise this actually matters to you on how much blood is needed for Hidan jutsu to work.
Read above.

How does this scenario actually work? The Gates is not going to separate Hidan and Orochimaru, yet along Mask firing at point blank range. So how is it going inbetween them?
If the mask is firing at point blank range then obviously this doesn't work. If Orochimaru and Hidan aren't within close combat distance of Kakuzu when he attacks then this scenario is what happens.
 

Brother Numpsay

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Where are the feats that prove otherwise?
I rather go behind your logic why you think he tanks the jutsu. Last time I got skew to hell, not happening.

This is why you Akatsuki supporters aren't taken serious. Yes I'm ignoring your point because it's irrelevant. In a scenario where Kakashi was forced into a disadvantageous position by Hidan and was hit almost point blank in mid air he needed his Sharingan. That's not a speed feat for Atsugai. "Dodging Atsugai needs Sharingan" is a nonsense argument so please don't start with that.
I was under the impression that this is what your refuting, a distracted Oro.

What in the world are you talking about? KN3 only has physical strikes. Thus it was a physical strike. "KN3 doesn't have the feats to make that strike" is a nonsense argument when the only feats it has shown in the matter are the ones you are writing off with no logical basis. What do you mean "look at the explosion"? That explosion is the same type of explosion that occurred when KN4 swung his hand. A physical attack.
KN3 had pure chakra blast and physically strikes. Thus its unreasonable to actually make up a feat it isnt close to producing that chakra blast did and could do via crater ground. KN4 Shockwave=/=explosion and never shown to create that concentrated blast that can gore the earth.

-Orochimaru's far more durable than average.
-Atusgai can't hurt Hidan.
-Thus Atsugai doesn't have the feats to kill Orochimaru with one hit. Stop saying "tanking" because that implies something completely different than what I'm arguing.
- Not important
- Not important since not hurting Hidan doesnt mean not hurting Oro
- Orochimaru can't tank an attack that has enough power to gore the ground, so zero reasons to believe he does for Atsugai.


:lol Cause I'm gonna take your word for it. Fact of the matter is, KN3 attacked, Orochimaru got away with only a missing arm. There is no reason to believe he dodged the attack because if he dodged the attack he wouldn't have any damage.
My words has to be specific? He wasn't able to completely dodge the attack. As if that arm was the weakest part of his body from the attack lol. So no, part of his body got caught in the blast. Nothing more nothing less.

Stop it. Don't bring this shit argument back here. Hidan being able to move with internal damage doesn't change the fact he had no external damage. So I'm still gonna wait for the feats that let Atsugai kill Orochimaru in one shot, because they don't exist. You are basically saying "Atsugai kills him in one shot because I want it to". :lol

Which jutsu was it? :lol. Oh wait, not Gian. So when you have scans of 8 bolts being shot we can talk. You people really need to learn how to read the databook and use common sense DB states that Gian can be fired in multiple blasts, the Manga has shown 2. Where is the evidence he can make 8?
Oh wait your admitting that the argue only benefits you as long as its not the one your refuting against? Good to know. Lucky for you, I dont keep track of what people post. So i'll drop this point till I find it on, maybe, google for context.

We have no idea where Rin started from, but we do know that Kakashi wasn't anywhere near Shikamaru and Choji when he blocked attack attack.
We have no idea where Rin started from and you just basically repeated yourself, switching up words with the same meaning, that we have no idea where Kakashi started from?

Point?

He dodges regardless. No speed feats for Gian to say it blitzes him. None at all.
Bad logic

So because Choji and Shikamaru, 2 characters with terrible below average speed going by DB and feats couldn't evade Gian you are allowed to claim Orochimaru, far stronger, far faster with far better feats, doesn't dodge? :lol Let's be serious here. Gian being easily faster than Bijuu Dama is also based on nothing. DB states it's fast. This is why all arguments supporting Kakuzu are ridiculed, because you guys love to exaggerate the meaning of simple words in place of actual feats.

Obviously, If I use logic, no I wouldnt allow you to say he dodge the attack because he is faster then Team 10. Unless you can prove Kakashi can, then yes I can come to a reasonable conclusion to agree.

"oh cuz it's lightning it's automatically faster"

Lmao. Come on now.
I didnt say "just because its lightening". Because thats not what the DB state and thats what I was referring too lmao.

If only a few drops hit the ground where Oro is standing, ignoring the fact that he won't get near Orochimaru to actually collect said blood in the first place, how is he going to get it off the ground and onto his scythe? That's like trying to get water that has spilled onto the ground, especially since they are on earth and not concrete or something like that.
A few? No it only needs 1 drop. I'm not ignoring anything I agree he can space him out but that doesnt do nothing in the long run.

Blood is much more thicker then water so why would I agree with this analogy? Hidans weapon have zero diff to attract blood wherever the location the blood lands.

They aren't meant to decapitate him. Once he's bound and while he's being attacked Orochimaru extends Kusanagi like he did against KN4 and splits him in two.
A faster jutsu keeping him occupied to the best CQC Jonin in Konoha couldnt (he said targeted attacks dont work). I dont have good reasons to believe he is will successfully get bound.

Which doesn't work when Orochimaru is right in his face.
It works, and Orochimaru right in his face works out for Hidan not Oro


Which doesn't matter for the reasons already stated. And no, that scenario obviously didn't happen because the guy actually fighting in CQC wasn't using Ninjutsu. :lol
Nintaijutsu yes. And manga scenario is more plausible then you arguing Oro simultaneously doing their work, with slower ninjutsu attack speed as distraction/bounding.
 
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Draegod

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Dafuq am I reading? lol

Creates 3 shadow clones. 2 Rape Hidan (If you say anything otherwise, delete your account)

Oru and another shadow clone beats Kukuzu. Rashomon blocks any major hit easily! Other giant snakes deal with the mask, plus Oru attacks from underneathe with the other 2 clones once they rape hidan (which they will). Then it's a 4 vs 1 with Manda....

Then people seriously think Hydra doesn't solo.... Hidan is picked off by the clones or snakes easily! Hydra was small mountain sized and larger in mass then Manda. Manda tanked a Jutsu combo that shits on all of Kuzu's jutsu's combined (Toad Oil Flame bomb), Oru not only is stated to be similar to manda, but also has Rashomon to block every single attack effortlessly!

Lets say for the sake of argument Hidan beats giant snakes and shadow clones (retatrded to think, but im going to kill all options);
For hidan's ritual to work he needs to be in the circle on a flap surface. Considering Hydra effortlessly made a small mountain it's playground, there will be no smooth surface. A simple wind jutsu blows him out his circle (fact) or a snake moves him out his circle!Or flying kusanai's cut his arms off so he'll never be able to use the jutsu, while Oru would create new arms no effort! And how would he get blood from hydra when hydra has Dragon scales protecting him? Unless you think basic metal can breake through his dragon scales, but then I'll have to ignore you completely!

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Not to mention All 8 heads are his vision and he is capable of emerging from all 8 heads and attacking independently! So that means:
1 head controls the wind
1 head controls rashomon
1 head creates even more snakes
1 head controls that will attack in all directions
and the other 4 heads smack shit around with Manda also crushing them if he hasn't already (if he's banned, then he has other giant snakes).

Oru solo's so hard it isnt even funny!

Clones and giant snakes rape Hidan less then 5 minutes (if you think Hidan beats 1 oru clone let alone 2+ with snakes, delete your account), Kuzu will be forced to stay on the offence and defense at the same time since and ! while he's spamming his elemental attacks on hydra basically ends him. Kuzu cannot deal with multiple Kage opponents at once (as seen in the war with Dairu). He never watches his back and that will be his downfall.
 

KidGamer65

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I rather go behind your logic why you think he tanks the jutsu. Last time I got skew to hell, not happening.
Zero feats that lead me to believe it one shots someone with above average durability. So if you want to argue that it does you should probably support it, because right now you are doing what people do when they are backed into a corner. They ask to be proved wrong instead of actually proving their own argument on their own.



I was under the impression that this is what your refuting, a distracted Oro.
Obviously not.


KN3 had pure chakra blast and physically strikes. Thus its unreasonable to actually make up a feat it isnt close to producing that chakra blast did and could do via crater ground. KN4 Shockwave=/=explosion and never shown to create that concentrated blast that can gore the earth.
We already saw KN3's chakra blast, and all it did was destroy the bridge and blow Kabuto away with no actual damage besides cracked glasses. So no, try again. That explosion is the same kind of explosion KN4's physical strike created. The bold isn't an argument. The bold is you spewing incoherent nonsense.

-
-

Explosion is identical in aesthetics. That's a fact. Your logic doesn't even make sense. "KN3's blast can't be physical because the chakra blast did less" even though you've just assumed that the chakra blast was supposed to be stronger than the physical attack in the first place. Just stop.

- Not important
- Not important since not hurting Hidan doesnt mean not hurting Oro
- Orochimaru can't tank an attack that has enough power to gore the ground, so zero reasons to believe he does for Atsugai.
-Yes it is. You can't say an attack with no feats kills someone with above average durability because he's your favorite character. :lol
-That's exactly what it means. Atsugai's only feat is doing ZERO damage to Hidan, so what lets it kill someone with above average durability? Oh wait, nothing.

-Lmao. Another reason why Kakuzu supporters aren't taken seriously. Gouge the ground means to damage the ground.

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Naruto's Rasengan in Part 1 can damage the ground yet it couldn't kill Kabuto w/ his regen tech so how does "gore the ground" translate to "one shot Orochimaru". Choji's physical strikes in Part 1 were gouging the ground yet he's not capable of killing Orochimaru in one shot.

-Taking Tsunade's punch to the jaw with no serious damage. [ ] [ ]

-Taking KN1's claw attack to the face with no serious damage. [ ] [ ] [ ]

-Taking KN3's attack with only a missing arm. [ ]

But the jutsu that didn't do anything to Hidan is gonna kill him in one shot.

Get some real feats for the jutsu and stop trying to make up imaginary feats. This is practically the same nonsense you tried to pull with FRS and Atsugai. :lol




My words has to be specific? He wasn't able to completely dodge the attack. As if that arm was the weakest part of his body from the attack lol. So no, part of his body got caught in the blast. Nothing more nothing less.
Based on nothing.

-Attack is used.
-Explosion.
-He comes out with a missing arm.

Meaning KN3's attack was only strong enough to take off an arm. What reason do you have to assume he partially dodged it? Especially since he couldn't even dodge KN1's initial attack? Lmao. None at all. Just you making up more nonsense.



Oh wait your admitting that the argue only benefits you as long as its not the one your refuting against? Good to know. Lucky for you, I dont keep track of what people post. So i'll drop this point till I find it on, maybe, google for context.
That depends entirely on the jutsu being argued for. As usual when you or anyone else tries this stupid stunt, you'll probably end up looking stupid when you realize the two scenarios aren't the same. Not to mention you guys do this as if it makes you right in the first place.

We have no idea where Rin started from and you just basically repeated yourself, switching up words with the same meaning, that we have no idea where Kakashi started from?
We know where Kakashi started from. He started from where Atsugai failed to hit him from point blank range. Try again.



Bad logic

No, it's not. You can't say X does something without supporting this. How long have you been arguing on this forum? Why do you think that this simple concept is going to change? :lol

Obviously, If I use logic, no I wouldnt allow you to say he dodge the attack because he is faster then Team 10. Unless you can prove Kakashi can, then yes I can come to a reasonable conclusion to agree.
So basically you are doing what cornered debaters do best by having me disprove your argument that you can't even support. :lol Get some real speed feats that let Gian blitz Orochimaru or don't bother arguing this point any further.


I didnt say "just because its lightening". Because thats not what the DB state and thats what I was referring too lmao.
It doesn't matter what you were referring to, because what you are referring to isn't a feat.

A few? No it only needs 1 drop. I'm not ignoring anything I agree he can space him out but that doesnt do nothing in the long run.

Blood is much more thicker then water so why would I agree with this analogy? Hidans weapon have zero diff to attract blood wherever the location the blood lands.
Blood being thicker than water doesn't change how blood reacts when it's dropped on a solid surface, but this is an idiotic argument to try and push considering he'll have to run to where Orochimaru is and try to pick blood off the ground and because Kakuzu can't even begin to think of drawing blood in the first place.


A faster jutsu keeping him occupied to the best CQC Jonin in Konoha couldnt (he said targeted attacks dont work). I dont have good reasons to believe he is will successfully get bound.
Addressed below. Do us both a favor and stop using terrible logic.


It works, and Orochimaru right in his face works out for Hidan not Oro
"It works"

Amazing argument. Him being able to repel thrown projectiles from a distance isn't the same as him being able to cut through a dozen snakes lunging at him while already in CQC with Orochimaru.


Nintaijutsu yes. And manga scenario is more plausible then you arguing Oro simultaneously doing their work, with slower ninjutsu attack speed as distraction/bounding.
No, Bukijutsu. :lol Chakra streaming isn't Nintaijutsu. And no, it really isn't for reasons that you actually haven't addressed. Slower attack speed is irrelevant when Shikamaru is mid range distance away from Hidan and when Orochimaru is already in his face.

EjBlack's arguments

-Gian blitz because I say so. I won't bring speed feats cause I can't.
-Atsugai one shot Oro because it can damage the ground. Won't bring real destructive capacity feats cause I can't.
-Hidan defeats Orochimaru w/ clones and snake Ninjutsu in CQC because he can beat Asuma w/ a blade and match Kakashi w/ a Kunai.
-KN3 didn't use a physical attack to hit Orochimaru because I say so.

:lol
 
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Zexion~

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Oro literally has less feats than Kakuzu does tbh which is saying something.

What has this thread become? If only I had the time..


while he's spamming his elemental attacks on hydra basically ends him. Kuzu cannot deal with multiple Kage opponents at once (as seen in the war with Dairu). He never watches his back and that will be his downfall.

He literally said, "I don't deal with chump change" what Kage level ninja was he fighting? Oro makes him money = terrible analogy.


Again as usual no one is mentioning EGF which is what really wins Kakuzu this fight with little effort.
 
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Red Slayer

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Ppl don't realize how powerful Oro is bc we haven't really saw his all out fight. We only saw Armless orochimaru's fights and against Hiruzen he used Edos, he did almost nothing and most immportant thing is that he was joking around in all of his fights.(except maybe Itachi)
 

KidGamer65

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Oro literally has less feats than Kakuzu does tbh which is saying something.

What has this thread become? If only I had the time..





He literally said, "I don't deal with chump change" what Kage level ninja was he fighting? Oro makes him money = terrible analogy.


Again as usual no one is mentioning EGF which is what really wins Kakuzu this fight with little effort.
Lmao if EGF is your main hope then its all too clear that Kakuzu gets eaten moderate diff. Kusanagi>all threads.
 

ToshiZO

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Ppl don't realize how powerful Oro is bc we haven't really saw his all out fight. We only saw Armless orochimaru's fights and against Hiruzen he used Edos, he did almost nothing and most immportant thing is that he was joking around in all of his fights.(except maybe Itachi)
Yea but he was still fodder to a child Itachi.

Most of the things being said here are assumptions (whether it be on how a situation will play out, or how a justu works). Not concrete enough to have an overwhelming favourite in this matchup.
 
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ToshiZO

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That child Itachi was already Kage lvl. Losing against him is not shame.
Losing is one thing though, Itachi looked like Orochimaru's daddy.

Those scenes killed any portrayal Orochimaru had going into shippuden tbh. It just put Itachi on so much of a higher level, since that was an Itachi from 7 years past.
 

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Losing is one thing though, Itachi looked like Orochimaru's daddy.

Those scenes killed any portrayal Orochimaru had going into shippuden tbh. It just put Itachi on so much of a higher level, since that was an Itachi from 7 years past.
Sharingan is Orochimaru's weakness, he kept losing agaisnt it.... but in the end Orochimaru is the one who laughts and Itachi is the one who get eaten by worms.
 
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NarutoX28

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If it's any consolation, Kisame literally acknowledged Orochimaru as being, "so powerful" and I consider Kakuzu and Kisame being equals more or less, so by my perspective, Orochimaru was portrayed as the stronger of the two.
 

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Sharingan is Orochimaru's weakness, he kept losing agaisnt it.... but in the Orochimaru is the one who laughts and Itachi is the one who get eaten by worms.
Sharingan is everyone's weakness. You sound mad salty with that last statement lmfao.


If it's any consolation, Kisame literally acknowledged Orochimaru as being, "so powerful" and I consider Kakuzu and Kisame being equals more or less, so by my perspective, Orochimaru was portrayed as the stronger of the two.
He was. But that statement is to be taken with a grain of salt because even Itachi himself was agreeing when in part 2, Orochimaru outright admitted clear inferiority to Itachi, overriding the statement.
 

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Sharingan is everyone's weakness. You sound mad salty with that last statement lmfao.
Lol no i am not mad nor salty, it is just fact.

If it's any consolation, Kisame literally acknowledged Orochimaru as being, "so powerful" and I consider Kakuzu and Kisame being equals more or less, so by my perspective, Orochimaru was portrayed as the stronger of the two.
If u have time,Can show me scan where Kisame is talking about Oro? I can not remember that scene.
 
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