[Discussion] One Piece: Underrated & Overrated

[Uzumaki Macho]

Or stall Kuma long enough for them to escape. Even then, that doesn't mean Rayleigh can defeat Kuma, Kizaru and Sentomaru at the same time. Even if it did, that could also just mean that Kuma and Sentomaru are far below Admiral level, which wouldn't be hard to believe.

Kuma is one of the fastest characters in the series and Kizaru is the fastest character in the series so far, so he would have to hold them off for a long time to make sure they don't catch up. Kuma is definitely not far below admiral level.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

The gap between Kuma and the Pre TS Straw Hats is so great that the only thing Rayleigh could do to help them out would be to beat Kuma.

And would Kizaru be doing in that situation? Taking a nap? Old Ralyelgh COULDN'T help the SHs. All he could do was hold off Kizaru and even that wasn't looking to good for him. If Prime Ralyleigh slipped passed Kizaru to gave after Kuma, whats keeping Kizaru from going after the SHs? Whatever 2 people Rayleigh holds off, the last one will go after the SH. Or are you assuming that Prime Rayleigh can instantly one shot Kuma and Sentomaru?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

And would Kizaru be doing in that situation? Taking a nap? Old Ralyelgh COULDN'T help the SHs. All he could do was hold off Kizaru and even that wasn't looking to good for him. If Prime Ralyleigh slipped passed Kizaru to gave after Kuma, whats keeping Kizaru from going after the SHs? Whatever 2 people Rayleigh holds off, the last one will go after the SH. Or are you assuming that Prime Rayleigh can instantly one shot Kuma and Sentomaru?

Prime Rayleigh could hold off all three of them at the same time based on what he said.

 

[Bogard]

It's simple. People are rating Burgess as fodder to Sabo right? Well in latest chapter, Sabo said he can't fight Doflamingo because he'd have his hands full with Burgess already. It's the same context like in the Rayleigh/Sentouraru/Kuma/Strawhats situation. Rayleigh simply judged that in his prime, Kizaru would have been so "fodder" to him, that he could handle both sides at the same time

 

[Hexuze]

He wasn't overlooked by anyone as far as I know. I often see people who thinks Sengoku and Garp were stronger than active admirals at the time of war of the best despite being old. BB injured Sengoku during their battle but so did Sengoku. People put him on the same level as people like Aokiji , Kizaru and Akainu even though he's much older than them and is not at his peak. I don't see how it's same as underrating him. Thinking he's weaker than active admiral is actually more reasonable if you ask me. Even those who think he's weaker than admirals won't put him a level below them which is definitely not same as misjudging his strength. He's far from being overrated or underrated by anyone let lone being most underrated/overrated.

I never expected you to know since you're fairly new here. If I'm not mistaken, BB didn't injury Sengoku iirc, it was just clashes and Sengoku's shock wave harming BB & his crewmates.

You're repeating the same mistake again. We don't know what Zoro's upper limit is and we don't know about Sanji's either. We still tend to compare them despite not having slightest idea about where their respective peaks stand. I am not trying to force people or anyone to take make my word for granted or anything. My point is , rather than blaming each other while using baseless as well as biased assumptions as a reference why don't we just stick with what we have in our hands? It's more appropriate and accurate than riding on assumptions and bashing other for having a different view on the same point. Even if they're not 100% accurate, conclusions based on information we have are always better than the ones which are created by using assumptions as a reference.

That's why I'm saying it's unfair to judge their power levels side by side since we have no idea of Zoro's weaknesses. Is that so hard to understand? I acknowledge that Zoro is stronger but to say the gap is huge after one fight (Zoro vs Pica) is illogical. Aren't you riding on the assumption that the gap is large because of the defeats that Sanji had (i.e. against Vergo/Doffy)? The information we have on our hands is insufficient, that's what my point is.

So based on what we have in our hand Zoro is indeed much stronger than Sanji. If Sanji proves himself to be stronger than what we initially thought then we can simply update ourself with new information given by manga and put Sanji near Zoro. But if Sanji failed to prove himself then we'll simply stick with Zoro is much stronger argument. It won't make our previous conclusion wrong as it was accurate based on what we have on our hands at that time.

I used to think and say Law was stronger than Luffy prior to witnessing G4 and now I updated myself and made new conclusion based on new information. I wasn't wrong back then and I am not wrong even now.

Or better yet, why don't we wait till we see Zoro being pushed to his limit then come up with a more accurate conclusion? I know you're eager to say the gap is huge but just wait lol. Just think about it yourself, one character has already shown it's strengths and weaknesses, whereas another character has shown it's strengths with no weaknesses. Ask yourself this. Is it really fair to call others as being delusional for disagreeing with your early conclusion? I don't think so.


^^ These are the reasons why I believe Sanji can be underrated at times.

 

[A v i]

I never expected you to know since you're fairly new here. If I'm not mistaken, BB didn't injury Sengoku iirc, it was just clashes and Sengoku's shock wave harming BB & his crewmates.

This is just an alt mate, even that fifteen pages of war b/w Shanks and Mihawk supporters sounds new to me and I was a participant in that thread. Sengoku had bandages all over his body after the war implying that he took injuries from BB.

That's why I'm saying it's unfair to judge their power levels side by side since we have no idea of Zoro's weaknesses. Is that so hard to understand? I acknowledge that Zoro is stronger but to say the gap is huge after one fight (Zoro vs Pica) is illogical. Aren't you riding on the assumption that the gap is large because of the defeats that Sanji had (i.e. against Vergo/Doffy)? The information we have on our hands is insufficient, that's what my point is.

Or better yet, why don't we wait till we see Zoro being pushed to his limit then come up with a more accurate conclusion? I know you're eager to say the gap is huge but just wait lol. Just think about it yourself, one character has already shown it's strengths and weaknesses, whereas another character has shown it's strengths with no weaknesses. Ask yourself this. Is it really fair to call others as being delusional for disagreeing with your early conclusion? I don't think so.


^^ These are the reasons why I believe Sanji can be underrated at times.

We still tend to compare characters to no end despite having very little info on them. So if we're not going to stop doing it. Why don't we go for most accurate way instead of riding purely on assumption? My argument is not an assumption. It's a conclusion created based on the information we have gotten from manga which is far better than assumptions created with no solid ground. I don't have to wait for Zoro's limit to say that it's above that of Sanji as he already proved that his current bench mark which isn't his peak to be significantly above that of Sanji.

 

[Anduril]

I don't know why people are so Salty about Sanji fighting all the big guns and zoro sweeping all his opponents into the carpet.
Have they Forgotten pre-timeskip One piece?

Let's go back some years,
Before Grandline,
Zoro is stuck at a pole with no food or water for 3 days, still holds of all the marines in one go with his swords.

Zoro encounters Buggy with the Bara Bara no mi (A swordsmen's worst dream when they don't know Haki) gets stabbed, still managed to beat Kabaji.

Zoro beats the Hypnotised Buchi necko with the wound that Buggy gave him.

Next, Zoro encounters the WSS Mihawk at baratie and challenges him for a duel (I would assume the gap between Zoro at that point and Mihawk was definitely much greater than the gap between Sanji and Doffy after skip >_>)

And after receiving a wound that would have killed any normal person he then goes on to beat Hachi (Still no doctor on the ship)

Skypiea - Zoro fights a gun slinger
Alabasta - Zoro fights a man whose body was made of steel
Enies Lobby - Zoro fights the person who according to dorouki measurement was the second strongest among the CP-9
Thriller Bark - Zoro Fights Ryuma (a samurai who weilds the treasure of wano kuni) and then takes on Kuma (actually hurts him) and takes in every hit and strain that a rubber body has survived and still stands. Not to mention Sanji fell down with a single back stroke from Zoro at that point.

So Zoro has been Fighting way over his Paygrade the entire part before skip. So why are people so Salty now that he is Finally standing up to his position of his Captain's first mate.
And it's not like they were all weak, Hyozou was stronger than wadatsumi (to beat whom sanji required Jibei's assistance), and there is no way of telling who among pica and vergo was stronger, while Zoro one shotted Pica's FBH, sanji got a fracture. Not to mention Pica was portrayed as the Top executive.

 

[A v i]

Only strong opponents Sanji has came across after TS are Vergo and Doflamingo with former being on the same level as Pica and later being below Fujitora so I don't see how Sanji's opponents are different from Zoro's. Zoro did fairly fie against Fujitora when compared to Sanji and even Law though the later was gang banged by Joker and Fuji. He was holding back during their battle yet overwhelmed Pica who wields far more fire power than Vergo.Pica is supposedly on the same level as him when you look at their overall capabilities. He has the complete advantage over Zoro still failed to put a dent on him. Based on their individual performances till now it shouldn't even be debatable.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

It's simple. People are rating Burgess as fodder to Sabo right? Well in latest chapter, Sabo said he can't fight Doflamingo because he'd have his hands full with Burgess already. It's the same context like in the Rayleigh/Sentouraru/Kuma/Strawhats situation. Rayleigh simply judged that in his prime, Kizaru would have been so "fodder" to him, that he could handle both sides at the same time

If Prime Rayleigh calls an Admiral fodder then Idk why people think Roger can extreme diff Admirals XD

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Blackbeard said that he used to admire WB, but than he got old. That statement would make no sense if Old WB could push Prime WH to extreme diff.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I don't know why people are so Salty about Sanji fighting all the big guns and zoro sweeping all his opponents into the carpet.
Have they Forgotten pre-timeskip One piece?

Let's go back some years,
Before Grandline,
Zoro is stuck at a pole with no food or water for 3 days, still holds of all the marines in one go with his swords.

Zoro encounters Buggy with the Bara Bara no mi (A swordsmen's worst dream when they don't know Haki) gets stabbed, still managed to beat Kabaji.

Zoro beats the Hypnotised Buchi necko with the wound that Buggy gave him.

Next, Zoro encounters the WSS Mihawk at baratie and challenges him for a duel (I would assume the gap between Zoro at that point and Mihawk was definitely much greater than the gap between Sanji and Doffy after skip >_>)

And after receiving a wound that would have killed any normal person he then goes on to beat Hachi (Still no doctor on the ship)

Skypiea - Zoro fights a gun slinger
Alabasta - Zoro fights a man whose body was made of steel
Enies Lobby - Zoro fights the person who according to dorouki measurement was the second strongest among the CP-9
Thriller Bark - Zoro Fights Ryuma (a samurai who weilds the treasure of wano kuni) and then takes on Kuma (actually hurts him) and takes in every hit and strain that a rubber body has survived and still stands. Not to mention Sanji fell down with a single back stroke from Zoro at that point.

So Zoro has been Fighting way over his Paygrade the entire part before skip. So why are people so Salty now that he is Finally standing up to his position of his Captain's first mate.
And it's not like they were all weak, Hyozou was stronger than wadatsumi (to beat whom sanji required Jibei's assistance), and there is no way of telling who among pica and vergo was stronger, while Zoro one shotted Pica's FBH, sanji got a fracture. Not to mention Pica was portrayed as the Top executive.

This is a good explanation. We are not salty abut that, we are salty about people thinking Zoro low or mid diffs Sanji

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

This is a good explanation. We are not salty abut that, we are salty about people thinking Zoro low or mid diffs Sanji

Who was saying that?

 

[A v i]

This is a good explanation. We are not salty abut that, we are salty about people thinking Zoro low or mid diffs Sanji

By feats it's an easy win for Zoro. But by taking portrayal from the beginning as a reference ,As he's now Sanji gets defeated somewhere below high dif or at high dif.

 

[Praydara]

Enel and Crocodile are underrated, and Sabo is extremely overrated. Honestly, why is he considered stronger than Doflamingo?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Enel and Crocodile are underrated, and Sabo is extremely overrated. Honestly, why is he considered stronger than Doflamingo?

From what I've seen, Sabo is underrated and Enel and Crocodile are overrated.

 

[Simpleatitsbest]

Burgess and BB pirates are overrated

As for underrated, Chopper.