[Discussion] One Piece: Underrated & Overrated

Hexuze

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Read the quoted part again, but I don't think you understand it :sdo:, since you quoted it and your eyes only zoomed to the "wank" part.




Yeah because of the irony of that post of yours lol.
So I'll say that you accepted the vergo scenario? Sanji got his bone cracked. Now wait for it.
Um, okay? You still ignored the rest of my post LOOL.


:lmao: I am not comparing Monet with vergo, I am comparing how a Logia was unable to bring herself together without anything like Radio knife being used on her. And Tashigi one shotted her, cause Zoro had already finished the fight.
I meant the outcomes of their battles.* Monet isn't on the same power-level as Vergo so that's a poor example.


What? Smoker was hunting vergo, he would never help a pirate unless that was the only thing he could have done in that scenario. If he could have, he would have knocked out vergo and then handed Law his heart back LOL try something call common sense next time. Smoker helped Law as a last resort.
No one was saying Smoker could defeat Vergo. I'm saying that he took a beating because he decided to retrieve Law's heart back. You could say the fight had ended prematurely since Smoker decided to change his actions but before that he was doing some considerable amount of work and battled Vergo a lot longer than Sanji did.

Errm Mr. :sdo:, maybe because it was that they don't have a substantial proof but still think vergo was stronger than Pica which some people consider an example of over-rating.
Go re-read what you said in your original post...
And we go back to sanji, if we have no way of telling if Vergo was stronger or weaker than Pica, then considering either of those scenarios. We have Zoro who defeated a FBH without strechting it far while we have sanji who got his Leg cracked against a FBH user. So, I don't think they are close no.
That's because we have yet to see Zoro's weaknesses, so ofc it'll look like a huge gap.


Yes the rest of the yonkou just have hype, while BB has "Yami Yami no mi - strongest Logia df" & "Gura Gura no mi - one of the most destructive paramecia type" + He already showed a pretty good use of the Gura Gura no mi against Sengoku (at least almost all the attacks WB showed), so I don't know where this mastered shit comes from. He also took control of all the WB territory, do you think the other Yonkou would have let him do that?
So the rest of the yonkou only have hype while BB has all the above things. No wonder he is weaker :sdo:
Pretty good uses? It was just clashes for the most part and BB couldn't even harm Sengoku, whereas Sengoku harmed BB and his crewmates. Also, just because he wields two of the strongest DF's doesn't make him the strongest yonko. We barely even know what Shanks can do and he opted out of a fight against him; we barely know anything about Kaido/BM powers. Or it could of been that the other yonkou's sent out their men to capture WB's territories and lost?


So you self proclaimed that all admirals are in the same league as Prime WB and Prime Roger and that makes more sense, yeah right.
Yes, if they weren't then the marines would of been useless during that era. Plus, that would be poor power scaling to have one top tier defeat another top tier by such a large gap as mid diff.




And if you would try to understand the fact that it was another thread + your bosom buddy Riker salad was the one who used that word first.

That's it for today's the :sdo: show.
Doesn't matter and I don't really care.
 
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Anduril

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Yeah because of the irony of that post of yours lol.
This is useless, you completely miss the point (or perhaps you keep doing it on purpose or just plain :sdo:).

Um, okay? You still ignored the rest of my post LOOL.
Yes, because I cannot predict what Zoro would have done in that scenario. It's as simple as that and You know who laughs for no reason?


I meant the outcomes of their battles.* Monet isn't on the same power-level as Vergo so that's a poor example.
But Monet is a Logia and Smoker is a Logia. And we have yet to see any Logia having that big a gap that they cannot even reform themselves. Even, that swamp guy was pounded by pekoms with Haki. Zoro just pure frightened her so much that she could not move. Even a fodder marine was able to move around in front of WB and you know the difference in their strength. So, its just to indicate the difference.
Smoker as a logia would have been just as outclassed against Zoro as he was against vergo.

No one was saying Smoker could defeat Vergo. I'm saying that he took a beating because he decided to retrieve Law's heart back. You could say the fight had ended prematurely since Smoker decided to change his actions but before that he was doing some considerable amount of work and battled Vergo a lot longer than Sanji did.
Any third party could tell how desperately you are trying to protect smoker here.
He decided to change his actions because he could not do shit to vergo.

Go re-read what you said in your original post...
Yes, I did and your point?

That's because we have yet to see Zoro's weaknesses, so ofc it'll look like a huge gap.
So you agree the Gap between Zoro and Sanji is big? or what? You are confusing.

Pretty good uses? It was just clashes for the most part and BB couldn't even harm Sengoku, whereas Sengoku harmed BB and his crewmates. Also, just because he wields two of the strongest DF's doesn't make him the strongest yonko. We barely even know what Shanks can do and he opted out of a fight against him and we barely know anything about Kaido/BM. Or it could of been that the other yonkou's sent out their men to capture WB's territories and lost?
You again miss the point. Firstly, Look at all the moves WB used with his fruit and look at the moves BB used with that fruit. He was able to pull off all the moves except for the one where WB tilted the seas and made John giant loose his balance and it actually caused more destruction than when WB used it.
Also having two OP df's (which no one in the history has been able to do) and claiming the title of yonkou are more durable feats than just the Hype of the other three Yonkous.

Yes, if they weren't then the marines would of been useless during that era. Plus, that would be poor power scaling to have one top tier defeat another top tier by such a large gap as mid diff.
The Marines were useless, they never captured Roger or actually anyone from his crew. They never bothered with WB. Again Top tier is just your brand, oda has not branded any set of chrachters as TOP tier. He has mentioned legends who earned the title because of their feats.

Doesn't matter and I don't really care.
Then why take the pain of making the point in a debate in the first place if you don't care?. You either don't know the meaning of Irony or just don't understand which threads are being wanked in and which are not.
 

24 12 11 to troll

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top 5 overrated:
1. Roger
2. Whitebeard
3. Garp
(seriously, they can't mid diff Admirals)
4. Zoro
5. Ace and Sabo

Top 5 underrated
1. Smoker
2. Crocodile
3. Sanji
4. Burgess and other BB Pirates
5. Sengoku
 

kageking

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Oh that's easy:

Underated: Sanji
Overated: Zoro.

The way a lot of people talk about these two you'd think the difference in their strengths are like night and day.
 

Bogard

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Everyone is overrated or underrated depending on each other's perspective

From my perspective, i don't think i'd ever see a character as more overrated/wanked as Crocodile is in this section to the point people think he stands a chance against a guy 4tiers(or more) above him just because he is badass
 

A v i

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I don't see why Sengoku is underrated. He isn't really underrated by any imo, most people think he's admiral level or a bit more so how it's same as underrating him is beyond my level of comprehension.


About Sanji, he clearly lacks feats as well as portrayal and his feats after TS are sub par. Only excuse people seem to be using for a long time is that he doesn't get a chance to shine when he clearly did get one with Vergo in which case he failed to proved himself to be as competent as his fellow M3 members. Sanji may be closer to Zoro or not. It doesn't change the fact that he's below Zoro by a great margin based on what we have seen so far. If Sanji proves himself to be closer to Zoro then it's all well and good but there is absolutely nothing that proves he will so people should stop relying too much on assumptions and try to accept what we have in our hands and make conclusions based on that information which is always better and more appropriate than making baseless assumptions.

Those who says Zoro is much stronger than Sanji actually have feats on their side so saying they're overrating Zoro while making delusional claims for the sake of putting Sanji near Zoro is just insane and totally illogical. Sanji is the one who's getting overrated in this particular case as people are trying desperately trying to put him at a place where he doesn't belongs to despite the contrary is being supported by manga.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Rayleigh said that if he was in his prime, he would have been able to handle Kizaru, Kuma, and Sentomaru, which means he can beat an admiral at less than extreme diff.
 

Hexuze

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I don't see why Sengoku is underrated. He isn't really underrated by any imo, most people think he's admiral level or a bit more so how it's same as underrating him is beyond my level of comprehension.


About Sanji, he clearly lacks feats as well as portrayal and his feats after TS are sub par. Only excuse people seem to be using for a long time is that he doesn't get a chance to shine when he clearly did get one with Vergo in which case he failed to proved himself to be as competent as his fellow M3 members. Sanji may be closer to Zoro or not. It doesn't change the fact that he's below Zoro by a great margin based on what we have seen so far. If Sanji proves himself to be closer to Zoro then it's all well and good but there is absolutely nothing that proves he will so people should stop relying too much on assumptions and try to accept what we have in our hands and make conclusions based on that information which is always better and more appropriate than making baseless assumptions.

Those who says Zoro is much stronger than Sanji actually have feats on their side so saying they're overrating Zoro while making delusional claims for the sake of putting Sanji near Zoro is just insane and totally illogical. Sanji is the one who's getting overrated in this particular case as people are trying desperately trying to put him at a place where he doesn't belongs to despite the contrary is being supported by manga.
Sengoku is underrated with his little panel time during the war compared to the other admirals which makes him often overlooked. Plus, for some reason people think BB was beating him.

Sanji's character is far much easier to evaluate than Zoro's from a power standpoint because we have already seen his weaknesses, whereas with Zoro we have yet to see his or see him get outclassed. Not to mention, Sanji has been facing stronger opponents than Zoro has since the TS, so it's not like Sanji is getting defeated by opponents that are on the same level as the ones Zoro has defeated. For example, up until the Fishman island arc, the gap between Zoro & Sanji wasn't that huge but after PH/Dressrosa it looks like a huge gap since we saw more of Sanji's weaknesses and him getting defeated. I believe Oda is waiting for the Wano arc to show Zoro's weaknesses and push him to his limit.

I'm going to assume that you think Zoro would mid diff Sanji, if that's the case, if someone was to say that Zoro would high diff Sanji that wouldn't be an overrated statement. I feel people here are using that word for granted and don't understand the difference with having an opinion that differs from someone elses and one that's overrated/underrated (especially when it's part of the minority). If you think someone is wrong, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are overrating/underrating the character. Besides, Sanji has the portrayal of being a M3 member and has good feats going for him. Personally, I'd wait till we see Zoro get pushed to his physical limits first then decide if the gap between Sanji & Zoro is large or small.
 
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A v i

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Sengoku is underrated with his little panel time during the war compared to the other admirals which makes him often overlooked. Plus, for some reason people think BB was beating him.

He wasn't overlooked by anyone as far as I know. I often see people who thinks Sengoku and Garp were stronger than active admirals at the time of war of the best despite being old. BB injured Sengoku during their battle but so did Sengoku. People put him on the same level as people like Aokiji , Kizaru and Akainu even though he's much older than them and is not at his peak. I don't see how it's same as underrating him. Thinking he's weaker than active admiral is actually more reasonable if you ask me. Even those who think he's weaker than admirals won't put him a level below them which is definitely not same as misjudging his strength. He's far from being overrated or underrated by anyone let lone being most underrated/overrated.


Sanji's character is far much easier to evaluate than Zoro's from a power standpoint because we have already seen his weaknesses, whereas with Zoro we have yet to see his or see him get outclassed. Not to mention, Sanji has been facing stronger opponents than Zoro has since the TS, so it's not like Sanji is getting defeated by opponents that are on the same level as the ones Zoro has defeated. For example, up until the Fishman island arc, the gap between Zoro & Sanji wasn't that huge but after PH/Dressrosa it looks like a huge gap since we saw more of Sanji's weaknesses and him getting defeated. I believe Oda is waiting for the Wano arc to show Zoro's weaknesses and push him to his limit.

I'm going to assume that you think Zoro would mid diff Sanji, if that's the case, if someone was to say that Zoro would high diff Sanji that wouldn't be an overrated statement. I feel people here are using that word for granted and don't understand the difference with having an opinion that differs from someone elses and one that's overrated/underrated (especially when it's part of the minority). If you think someone is wrong, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are overrating/underrating the character. Besides, Sanji has the portrayal of being a M3 member and has good feats going for him. Personally, I'd wait till we see Zoro get pushed to his physical limits first then decide if the gap between Sanji & Zoro is large or small.

You're repeating the same mistake again. We don't know what Zoro's upper limit is and we don't know about Sanji's either. We still tend to compare them despite not having slightest idea about where their respective peaks stand. I am not trying to force people or anyone to take make my word for granted or anything. My point is , rather than blaming each other while using baseless as well as biased assumptions as a reference why don't we just stick with what we have in our hands? It's more appropriate and accurate than riding on assumptions and bashing others for having a different view on the same point. Even if they're not 100% accurate, conclusions based on information we have are always better than the ones which are created by using assumptions as a reference.

So based on what we have seen so far Zoro is indeed much stronger than Sanji. If Sanji proves himself to be stronger than what we initially thought then we can simply update ourself with new information given by manga and put Sanji near Zoro. But if Sanji failed to prove himself then we'll simply stick with Zoro is much stronger argument. It won't make our previous conclusion wrong as it was accurate based on what we have on our hands at that time.

I used to think and say Law was stronger than Luffy prior to witnessing G4 and now I updated myself and made new conclusion based on new information. I wasn't wrong back then and I am not wrong even now.
 
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Vandenre1ch

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Rayleigh said that if he was in his prime, he would have been able to handle Kizaru, Kuma, and Sentomaru, which means he can beat an admiral at less than extreme diff.
Rayleigh never said that......he simply IMPLIED that he'd be able to assist the SHs in some way if he was younger because as an old man, Kizaru was pinning him down.


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Sengoku is underrated with his little panel time during the war compared to the other admirals which makes him often overlooked. Plus, for some reason people think BB was beating him.

Sanji's character is far much easier to evaluate than Zoro's from a power standpoint because we have already seen his weaknesses, whereas with Zoro we have yet to see his or see him get outclassed. Not to mention, Sanji has been facing stronger opponents than Zoro has since the TS, so it's not like Sanji is getting defeated by opponents that are on the same level as the ones Zoro has defeated. For example, up until the Fishman island arc, the gap between Zoro & Sanji wasn't that huge but after PH/Dressrosa it looks like a huge gap since we saw more of Sanji's weaknesses and him getting defeated. I believe Oda is waiting for the Wano arc to show Zoro's weaknesses and push him to his limit.

I'm going to assume that you think Zoro would mid diff Sanji, if that's the case, if someone was to say that Zoro would high diff Sanji that wouldn't be an overrated statement. I feel people here are using that word for granted and don't understand the difference with having an opinion that differs from someone elses and one that's overrated/underrated (especially when it's part of the minority). If you think someone is wrong, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are overrating/underrating the character. Besides, Sanji has the portrayal of being a M3 member and has good feats going for him. Personally, I'd wait till we see Zoro get pushed to his physical limits first then decide if the gap between Sanji & Zoro is large or small.
Well said.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Rayleigh never said that......he simply IMPLIED that he'd be able to assist the SHs in some way if he was younger because as an old man, Kizaru was pinning him down.


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Well said.
The gap between Kuma and the Pre TS Straw Hats is so great that the only thing Rayleigh could do to help them out would be to beat Kuma.
 

Punk Hazard

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Sengoku is underrated with his little panel time during the war compared to the other admirals which makes him often overlooked. Plus, for some reason people think BB was beating him.

Sanji's character is far much easier to evaluate than Zoro's from a power standpoint because we have already seen his weaknesses, whereas with Zoro we have yet to see his or see him get outclassed. Not to mention, Sanji has been facing stronger opponents than Zoro has since the TS, so it's not like Sanji is getting defeated by opponents that are on the same level as the ones Zoro has defeated. For example, up until the Fishman island arc, the gap between Zoro & Sanji wasn't that huge but after PH/Dressrosa it looks like a huge gap since we saw more of Sanji's weaknesses and him getting defeated. I believe Oda is waiting for the Wano arc to show Zoro's weaknesses and push him to his limit.

I'm going to assume that you think Zoro would mid diff Sanji, if that's the case, if someone was to say that Zoro would high diff Sanji that wouldn't be an overrated statement. I feel people here are using that word for granted and don't understand the difference with having an opinion that differs from someone elses and one that's overrated/underrated (especially when it's part of the minority). If you think someone is wrong, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are overrating/underrating the character. Besides, Sanji has the portrayal of being a M3 member and has good feats going for him. Personally, I'd wait till we see Zoro get pushed to his physical limits first then decide if the gap between Sanji & Zoro is large or small.
The main problem is that Sanji have been fighting people who are actually strong. Monet, Pica, the Fishman, they're all below the M3 pay grade. The people Sanji have fought have been either above the M3 paygrade or just at. When Zoro went up against someone who was actually worth his salt, he left Zoro panting and on his knee without much effort. You're right, Zoro simply has fought people who are worth their salt while Sanji has.

The gap between Kuma and the Pre TS Straw Hats is so great that the only thing Rayleigh could do to help them out would be to beat Kuma.
Or stall Kuma long enough for them to escape. Even then, that doesn't mean Rayleigh can defeat Kuma, Kizaru and Sentomaru at the same time. Even if it did, that could also just mean that Kuma and Sentomaru are far below Admiral level, which wouldn't be hard to believe.
 
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A v i

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Stalling Kuma isn't a good idea.I don't think Kizaru would just stand there and watch as they escape while Kuma is being held by Rayleigh. So only options for Rayleigh are to incapacitate Kizaru/Kuma to a level where he can't go after the crew and fight Kuma/Kizaru. Or Holding them both at the same time.
 
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