Luffy already vowed to take her out back at FI and fairly certain he also said it once he got on WCI to her or her subs I'll look for that in a few.
I've already said in other posts the rockets probably won't take her out and the plan won't go 100% since the rockets are a kill shot and Oda kills few characters off but that doesn't mean she won't/can't still be beaten this arc.
Save Zeff? Zeff hasn't been in danger for the last 20 chapters or so. BM doesn't care about Zeff's life and the Vinsmokes have been in no position to act on that threat since they arrived on WCI. Just stop with the Zeff excuse already.
I meant to put this in the first reply but must have missed it. Your two instances bring up a good point, during rescue arcs Luffy doesn't always defeat the final boss character before leaving but they aren't true final boss arcs either like this one is so they are good evidence for but not proof that BM won't be defeated.
It was one of Sanji's 3 conditions before leaving the island. Go reread before you mock me.
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Luffy vowed to take her down in the New World, and during this arc he would crash the wedding. So if he saves Sanji now and beats Big Mom definitely later like on Elbaf or on Wano, he would still have made good on his promise.
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Why should I be the one to prove that Big Mom won't be beaten ? Why don't you proof that she will be beaten ?
It was one of Sanji's 3 conditions before leaving the island. Go reread before you mock me.
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Luffy vowed to take her down in the New World, and during this arc he would crash the wedding. So if he saves Sanji now and beats Big Mom definitely later like on Elbaf or on Wano, he would still have made good on his promise.
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Why should I be the one to prove that Big Mom won't be beaten ? Why don't you proof that she will be beaten ?
That was before Sanji learned from Reiju that BM herself wasn't targeting Zeff, you can't use past scenes when newer scenes over ride it. Nobody's mocking you, you need to learn to take disagreements less personally the Zeff excuse isn't a valid excuse given everything we know now. What would Sanji even need to do to save Zeff assuming it still held? His family's been betrayed by BM they have no reason to threaten Zeff anymore and BM was never worried with him.
He also told her he'd kick her ass in this arc.
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When did I tell you to prove it? I said those examples aren't proof like you laid them out to be. Manga history is in favor of BM being defeated this arc. 4 out of 29 or so arcs where Luffy didn't beat the "final boss" and those 4 aren't the same as this arc either since there was no real "final boss" that Luffy challenged but 2 are rescue arcs so they're similar enough. She's challenged his PK dream, how many enemy pirates that have made that claim to Luffy has he beaten and how many has he lost too?
That was before Sanji learned from Reiju that BM herself wasn't targeting Zeff, you can't use past scenes when newer scenes over ride it. Nobody's mocking you, you need to learn to take disagreements less personally the Zeff excuse isn't a valid excuse given everything we know now. What would Sanji even need to do to save Zeff assuming it still held? His family's been betrayed by BM they have no reason to threaten Zeff anymore and BM was never worried with him.
He also told her he'd kick her ass in this arc.
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When did I tell you to prove it? I said those examples aren't proof like you laid them out to be. Manga history is in favor of BM being defeated this arc. 4 out of 29 or so arcs where Luffy didn't beat the "final boss" and those 4 aren't the same as this arc either since there was no real "final boss" that Luffy challenged but 2 are rescue arcs so they're similar enough. She's challenged his PK dream, how many enemy pirates that have made that claim to Luffy has he beaten and how many has he lost too?
You have no clue what you're talking about. That wasn't before that moment at all. Sanji never spoke to Reiju after that again. This is from chapter 856 "Liar". By saying stop coming with excuses that is mocking someone based on arguments you don't agree with. Because it is not an excuse to defend my standpoint, it's valid. The painful part is that you're now wrong twice about it.
The 2 pages you linked, show Luffy saying in one that he would 'fight' big mom, and the other is him saying he will be victorious in the end. So again that is not a classic Luffy promise of kicking someone's ass like he always does. He can still save Sanji and have Big Mom topple later on in the New World and he will still keep his promise.
So I don't know if you want to try a third time to come up with bad arguments. Like I said before, reread it first because you clearly don't seem to understand what is going on. You seem to have rushed through it and your timeline is off.
You can't use statistics to say that the manga's history is in favor of Luffy. Because wins against Kuro and Morgan which are also part of that 29 don't help you beat a yonkou while severely outnumbered and not his full crew present.
So far the only injury Big Mom has is a scrape on her knee, look what effort it took to take down Doflamingo even after Law had scrambled his guts with a knife. It took Luffy hours to take down Cracker, he doesn't have that kind of time to screw around here.
Describe me a scenario how Luffy will pull off this win then ?
You have no clue what you're talking about. That wasn't before that moment at all. Sanji never spoke to Reiju after that again. This is from chapter 856 "Liar".
Well that makes it even worse then since REiju flat out told him Zeff's not in real danger if he leaves. I know you get emotional when people call Sanji dumb lately but that was either Oda making him have a dumb moment for the sake of the story or Oda forgot that Zeff's not in real danger since it was the Vinsmokes threatening his life not BM, BM didn't care about killing Zeff or not.
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She only included Zeff as another piece to ensure Sanji came so the rest of the Vinsmokes came, the Vinsmokes were always her target not Sanji or Zeff.
By saying stop coming with excuses that is mocking someone based on arguments you don't agree with. Because it is not an excuse to defend my standpoint, it's valid. The painful part is that you're now wrong twice about it.
I didn't say stop coming with excuses I said stop using this particular excuse. Your inability to differentiate that from all your points is a sign that you took a simple statement too personally. I love the notion of someone as condescending as you getting offended at perceived mocking, that's hilarious.
How is it a valid excuse anyway? You've still yet to actually elaborate how Zeff's life is actually in danger if Sanji leaves the wedding. In no scenario was Zeff's life ever truly at risk. Sanji knows that thanks to Reiju and is still using it as an excuse why he can't comeback. If Sanji left BM would get mad and kill the Vinsmokes, if he stayed wedding would happen, Zeff would be fine.
The 2 pages you linked, show Luffy saying in one that he would 'fight' big mom, and the other is him saying he will be victorious in the end. So again that is not a classic Luffy promise of kicking someone's ass like he always does. He can still save Sanji and have Big Mom topple later on in the New World and he will still keep his promise.
Yeah he said I'll fight you right now and win in the end. That's a declaration of challenge here and now. You can try and skew that anyway you want but it's in black and white Luffy challenged her here on her home turf like so many opponents before her and again, how many of those instances has Luffy ended up losing?
So I don't know if you want to try a third time to come up with bad arguments. Like I said before, reread it first because you clearly don't seem to understand what is going on. You seem to have rushed through it and your timeline is off.
You can't use statistics to say that the manga's history is in favor of Luffy. Because wins against Kuro and Morgan which are also part of that 29 don't help you beat a yonkou while severely outnumbered and not his full crew present.
I absolutely can and pretty sure I just did, I think you meant to say you shouldn't but you have a bad habit of talking your thoughts as fact so we'll let that slide. Kuro and Morgan help set the trend of Luffy challenging the final boss who was reputably above Luffy at the time and winning.
So far the only injury Big Mom has is a scrape on her knee, look what effort it took to take down Doflamingo even after Law had scrambled his guts with a knife. It took Luffy hours to take down Cracker, he doesn't have that kind of time to screw around here.
Look at how strong Cracker is and how easy he went down once Luffy was able to pass his defense. BM's defense is down and a fall to her knees scrapped her and made her bleed. Chances are her durability in that state is low(as is common with characters with outrages "armor" once the "armor" is gone their personal defense is low, not a fact here but tips the scales in Luffy's favor)
Describe me a scenario how Luffy will pull off this win then ?
There's 3 scenarios at play right now that could result in her loss. Tamatebako, Bege's missles or Luffy's fist. The likelihood is in the air but that's not what you asked and we're not Oda so I can't say one will or won't for sure happen like you seem to think you can.
Well that makes it even worse then since REiju flat out told him Zeff's not in real danger if he leaves. I know you get emotional when people call Sanji dumb lately but that was either Oda making him have a dumb moment for the sake of the story or Oda forgot that Zeff's not in real danger since it was the Vinsmokes threatening his life not BM, BM didn't care about killing Zeff or not.
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She only included Zeff as another piece to ensure Sanji came so the rest of the Vinsmokes came, the Vinsmokes were always her target not Sanji or Zeff.
I didn't say stop coming with excuses I said stop using this particular excuse. Your inability to differentiate that from all your points is a sign that you took a simple statement too personally. I love the notion of someone as condescending as you getting offended at perceived mocking, that's hilarious.
How is it a valid excuse anyway? You've still yet to actually elaborate how Zeff's life is actually in danger if Sanji leaves the wedding. In no scenario was Zeff's life ever truly at risk. Sanji knows that thanks to Reiju and is still using it as an excuse why he can't comeback. If Sanji left BM would get mad and kill the Vinsmokes, if he stayed wedding would happen, Zeff would be fine.
Yeah he said I'll fight you right now and win in the end. That's a declaration of challenge here and now. You can try and skew that anyway you want but it's in black and white Luffy challenged her here on her home turf like so many opponents before her and again, how many of those instances has Luffy ended up losing?
I absolutely can and pretty sure I just did, I think you meant to say you shouldn't but you have a bad habit of talking your thoughts as fact so we'll let that slide. Kuro and Morgan help set the trend of Luffy challenging the final boss who was reputably above Luffy at the time and winning.
Look at how strong Cracker is and how easy he went down once Luffy was able to pass his defense. BM's defense is down and a fall to her knees scrapped her and made her bleed. Chances are her durability in that state is low(as is common with characters with outrages "armor" once the "armor" is gone their personal defense is low, not a fact here but tips the scales in Luffy's favor)
There's 3 scenarios at play right now that could result in her loss. Tamatebako, Bege's missles or Luffy's fist. The likelihood is in the air but that's not what you asked and we're not Oda so I can't say one will or won't for sure happen like you seem to think you can.
Ahhh what a joke, so you stumble your way through this thread making false assumptions, provide wrong information. When I call you out on it it suddenly is reflecting bad on the character or even worse Oda's fault somehow. In all the commotion you still didn't bother to look up why Zeff is in danger, that is thanks to Big Mom's intelligence service. It was also Big Mom who made the threat as it was delivered by Bege too on Zou. The Vinsmokes were just a part of that problem since they also had that intel as leverage.
So take note, and don't blame Sanji or Oda or whoever for your inability to remember what was said at which point in time.
Also I'll fight you and I will be victorious in the end are not the type of guarantees Luffy normally gives off. Remember Rebecca and how Doffy was going to get his ass kicked, or Momonosuke and Ceasar or Shirahoshi and Hody or Robin and Lucci or Vivi and Crocodile or Nami and Arlong. That list is a lot longer btw but you get the point. He didn't say that to Big Mom. He just said I'm going to wreck the wedding instead.
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So he says all this versus:
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You can draw your own conclusion from that. There is only one scenario for me.
Ahhh what a joke, so you stumble your way through this thread making false assumptions, provide wrong information. When I call you out on it it suddenly is reflecting bad on the character or even worse Oda's fault somehow. In all the commotion you still didn't bother to look up why Zeff is in danger, that is thanks to Big Mom's intelligence service. It was also Big Mom who made the threat as it was delivered by Bege too on Zou. The Vinsmokes were just a part of that problem since they also had that intel as leverage.
So take note, and don't blame Sanji or Oda or whoever for your inability to remember what was said at which point in time.
Also I'll fight you and I will be victorious in the end are not the type of guarantees Luffy normally gives off. Remember Rebecca and how Doffy was going to get his ass kicked, or Momonosuke and Ceasar or Shirahoshi and Hody or Robin and Lucci or Vivi and Crocodile or Nami and Arlong. That list is a lot longer btw but you get the point. He didn't say that to Big Mom. He just said I'm going to wreck the wedding instead.
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So he says all this versus:
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You can draw your own conclusion from that. There is only one scenario for me.
Yeah this would be such an epic comeback if it weren't for the fact that we've already talked about this. So way to go on joining in a discussion at the end.
Go back a page, I never said Luffy wouldn't beat Big Mom. I fully explained how Luffy can keep his Fishman Island promise by not beating her this arc.
As for those two instances this arc. Also already explained that. But here we go again for the thick skulled people among us. Oda choose his words carefully. He said that Luffy would fight her and be victorious in the end. Notice the very subtle difference from IMMA KICK YOUR ASSS ! when a nakama his down ? Instead he said that he would wreck the wedding at that point with Sanji.
So they only need to fulfill those three conditions Sanji had and jump into the mirror. He would have fought her without beating her and still be victorious.
Besides who else is going to link Luffy to the Fishman Island destruction as predicted by Shirley ? Or do you really think that Luffy will take down a yonkou with half his crew there ? Seems like a bit of momentous occasion where Oda might want to have the band together before he does something like that.
But I see that you have no other arguments other than
:bdpf:
You better hope there is a nuclear bomb in that box, otherwise it's not really looking good for Luffy beating Big Mom right now.
Dunno how an argument can even be made here. Oda does choose things like this carefully. Pretty dumb this notion that Luffy can only beat Big Mom at that moment is even going around.
Remember how Luffy defeated Fujitora when he said he wouldn't run from people like Admirals and Emperors because he has to get by them to become Pirate King, and that he'd gladly beat them all? /s
Yeah this would be such an epic comeback if it weren't for the fact that we've already talked about this. So way to go on joining in a discussion at the end.
Go back a page, I never said Luffy wouldn't beat Big Mom. I fully explained how Luffy can keep his Fishman Island promise by not beating her this arc.
I read every post before I quoted you.. I just didn't understand why you were making such a big deal out of the scans you presented... its clear we have Luffy saying different things in different panels.. which is what I was implying with my post. I am sorry however, for seeming a little douche-y by not typing any words, but I honestly knew that you were smart enough to get what my point was.. so I just thought you would understand what I was getting at.. my bad.
As for those two instances this arc. Also already explained that. But here we go again for the thick skulled people among us. Oda choose his words carefully. He said that Luffy would fight her and be victorious in the end. Notice the very subtle difference from IMMA KICK YOUR ASSS ! when a nakama his down ? Instead he said that he would wreck the wedding at that point with Sanji.
So they only need to fulfill those three conditions Sanji had and jump into the mirror. He would have fought her without beating her and still be victorious.
Again, what I said above... I'm not sure why you're choosing only certain statements from Luffy to harp on, when we clearly have him saying different things at different times..
Isn't it possible that Oda is doing this on purpose?
Like you said, he always chooses his words carefully.. he could very well be doing this so we as readers are unsure of what Luffy's final actions will be..
Just a thought though..
Besides who else is going to link Luffy to the Fishman Island destruction as predicted by Shirley ?
Or do you really think that Luffy will take down a yonkou with half his crew there ? Seems like a bit of momentous occasion where Oda might want to have the band together before he does something like that.
Tbh? Yes. I see it being highly possible actually.
I think it would be nice for Sanji, Nami, Chopper and Brook to get their bounties raised right now.. not to mention I can already see the jokes and gags from Zoro and Usopp and Franky not being there when "The Strawhats" took down a Yonko..
PLUS, if you want to talk about a big occasion with crew members missing.. I think the forming of the Strawhats first ever Grand Fleet, was a pretty big moment don't you agree? Yet some of the crew was absent..
It may be Oda's way of breaking down the crew's character development / screen time in a nice organized way.
I think the big Yonko battles that will require the whole crew to be there is Kaido, and of course Blackbeard (but that's obvious).
But I see that you have no other arguments other than
:bdpf:
You better hope there is a nuclear bomb in that box, otherwise it's not really looking good for Luffy beating Big Mom right now.
Ahhh what a joke, so you stumble your way through this thread making false assumptions, provide wrong information. When I call you out on it it suddenly is reflecting bad on the character or even worse Oda's fault somehow.
What would you call it if in 1 chapter a character is flat out told, by one of the people in the group threatening his friends life, that his friends life isn't really in trouble then a few chapters later he says he can't escape because that friend might be killed? I'll wait.
In all the commotion you still didn't bother to look up why Zeff is in danger, that is thanks to Big Mom's intelligence service. It was also Big Mom who made the threat as it was delivered by Bege too on Zou. The Vinsmokes were just a part of that problem since they also had that intel as leverage.
Another bullshit non answer. And we went over this already Sanji didn't receive the Zeff threat on Zou he received it from Judge on WCI. BM gave them the Zeff leverage to play because it wasn't of concern to her. All BM did was provide them with the intel. It was Judge who threatened to move on Zeff if Sanji fled the wedding but that's a threat he wouldn't be able to live up to because in BM's plan once the vinsmokes landed on WCI they were never leaving.
So take note, and don't blame Sanji or Oda or whoever for your inability to remember what was said at which point in time.
Also I'll fight you and I will be victorious in the end are not the type of guarantees Luffy normally gives off. Remember Rebecca and how Doffy was going to get his ass kicked, or Momonosuke and Ceasar or Shirahoshi and Hody or Robin and Lucci or Vivi and Crocodile or Nami and Arlong. That list is a lot longer btw but you get the point. He didn't say that to Big Mom. He just said I'm going to wreck the wedding instead.
All those instances you posted, Luffy ends up beating that person that arc. He said he'd do it then he did it, he didn't challenge them then go off and fight other people in between. And what are you even talking about he said I'll fight you right here and now to BM how much more current of a challenge can you get? The future fight worked at FI but that future is here.
So he says all this versus:
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You can draw your own conclusion from that. There is only one scenario for me.
You keep acting like all he said was wrecking the wedding when that's not the case. The wedding's already wrecked mission accomplished on that a couple chapters ago.
So to recap: Keeps saying Luffy only said he'd wreck the wedding and ignores all cases of him saying he'll beat BM here and now on WCI, Luffy says I'll fight you here and now and I'll win in the end" and this guy thinks he means I'll fight you later, Clings to the Zeff excues though it has no validity as a threat or reason Sanji would need to worry, gets defensive and says "stop mocking me" then continues with his typical condescension. You're a real stand up guy.
@Riker, I'm not saying it can only happen now I'm saying it's most likely to happen now given the precedents of the manga.
Wrong Rayleigh wasn't holding anything back he was trying to put down everybody in the auction house he even acknowledged the fact that if they could handle his Haki then they are surely no amateurs. And those faces the Vinsmoke family were making were do to big moms screaming not her Haki. Even luffy was screaming in pain and it wasn't do to Haki he was in close proximity to big mom so he got the worst of it. Strong will doesn't mean you are a physical power house it just means conquers Haki won't effect you which is nothing special since its basically the equivalent to crowd control when it comes to fodder.
So what I said still stands because Usopp didn't feel anything he was asking what happened, Rayleigh even made sure he understood the situation before he used his haki. Also he said how you handled the situation not how you handled my haki....
How do you know it was to the scream and not haki??? also that wasn't luffy unless he has somehow developed those animal teeth.......
here is the clone:
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sure strong will doesn't mean you are strong but of the people we have gotten to know who have strong will most if not 99% have had strong will turned out to be strong.
Dunno how an argument can even be made here. Oda does choose things like this carefully. Pretty dumb this notion that Luffy can only beat Big Mom at that moment is even going around.
Idk who's saying "Luffy can only beat Big Mom now", but I do see alot of people (myself included) saying that it would be best for the story and plot progression if Big Mom is defeated this arc.
Idk who's saying "Luffy can only beat Big Mom now", but I do see alot of people (myself included) saying that it would be best for the story and plot progression if Big Mom is defeated this arc.
I believe she will be defeated.. were getting a backstory on her and elbaf why?????? O yea thats right because she will be defeated and not in the story anymore like whitebeard before blackbeard shot him to death!
What other reasons would oda show her backstory now in mid fight, with so much chaos????? Its because she wont be around later for her backstory lol i really hope this is what oda has planned, so lovecook can change his av to naruto hahahahah and howlett too!! I havent forgot both you guys said she wouldnt be defeated this arc and made a bet that if she was you would both change your av!
I was right when i said jenbei would join SHs and everybody called me stupid because he was still with bigmoms crew.. lets see what else i get right.. how about
reiju vs smoothie
Ichi and nijii vs katakurii
And judge luffy and jenbei vs bigmom!
Pedro and bege will take out the other fodders lol. I know bege cant beat katakuri alone or he wouldve did it by now. Somthing big is about to happen!
Are you special??? Where did I say he was holding back???? I said So what I said still stands because Usopp didn't feel anything he was asking what happened, Rayleigh even made sure he understood the situation before he used his haki. Also he said how you handled the situation not how you handled my haki....
How do you know it was to the scream and not haki??? also that wasn't luffy unless he has somehow developed those animal teeth.......
here is the clone:
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sure strong will doesn't mean you are strong but of the people we have gotten to know who have strong will most if not 99% have had strong will turned out to be strong.
Yet again completely wrong even one of laws crewmates almost passed out from Rayleigh's Haki he was speaking directly about them being able to handle his blast of Haki. Usopp didn't feel anything because it didn't affect him at all. Capone made it clear that big moms screech was gonna be so bad that they would need ear plugs and that some people would pass out because while she was in this state her conquers Haki is unleashed. The vinsmokes faces were showing how they were handling the pain from big moms screeching. After Rejiu and the others got their ear plugs the faces stopped. So all my points are valid there is no reason at all to get excited by them handle conquers Haki or big moms screaming it's no big deal. Neither of those things if you wanna call them feats would indicate or even imply that they are monsters when it comes to combat.
were getting a backstory on her and elbaf why?????? O yea thats right because she will be defeated and not in the story anymore like whitebeard before blackbeard shot him to death!
What other reasons would oda show her backstory now in mid fight, with so much chaos????? Its because she wont be around later for her backstory lol i really hope this is what oda has planned, so lovecook can change his av to naruto hahahahah and howlett too!! I havent forgot both you guys said she wouldnt be defeated this arc and made a bet that if she was you would both change your av!
Yeah man, just recently we got that Doflamingo backstory and look what happened to him.. lol
Oda is also being smart af by building up that Elbaf hype even more within this Big Mom backstory, killing two birds with one stone. Gotta love Oda's story telling!
I was right when i said jenbei would join SHs and everybody called me stupid because he was still with bigmoms crew.. lets see what else i get right.. how about
reiju vs smoothie
Ichi and nijii vs katakurii
And judge luffy and jenbei vs bigmom!
Pedro and bege will take out the other fodders lol. I know bege cant beat katakuri alone or he wouldve did it by now. Somthing big is about to happen!
I, too, can see Reiju vs Smoothie.. (also even Nami with maybe Chopper and Carrot going against Smoothie as well)
I can see Katakuri being defeated by either Ichiji or Sanji or both of them together maybe..
I haven't figured out what fight Judge fits in yet, but I like your idea of him being one of the main opponents to bring down Big Mom.. I just want Luffy to kick her ass and be the one to deal the final blow! lol
Some big things are about to happen for real!
It's always nice chatting it up with you man.. we usually seem to have similar thoughts on these chapter discussions.
But please don't be too upset with Love Cook or Riker.. they mean well at the end of the day.. and every thing they say comes from their heart and how much they love One Piece, just like us.
That's why I wish we could all get along more.. lol
Idk who's saying "Luffy can only beat Big Mom now", but I do see alot of people (myself included) saying that it would be best for the story and plot progression if Big Mom is defeated this arc.
I was right when i said jenbei would join SHs and everybody called me stupid because he was still with bigmoms crew.. lets see what else i get right.. how about
!
So riddle me this, you might think the flashback is a sign that Big Mom will be defeated.
But what kind of sign is it that Ceasar is placing mirrors all over the island for an escape strategy ? If Big Mom and the commanders are down, why would Oda go through such lengths of exploiting Brulee and separating Ceasar from the fight tasking him with mirror placement if Oda already knows that it would be redundant in the end ?
That is strange... Almost seems like that is being set up to escape from something. But what could that be if Big Mom is beaten ?
Idk who's saying "Luffy can only beat Big Mom now", but I do see alot of people (myself included) saying that it would be best for the story and plot progression if Big Mom is defeated this arc.
Riker and Love are the only ones I've seen really saying that because it's easier to argue words you put in people's mouth than what they're actually saying sometimes.
Oh please a blind donkey with extra chromosomes was able to predict Jimbe would join the Strawhats.
What gave it away for you ? The fact that he already said he would join on Fishman Island ?
Great prediction Nostradamus Jr.
So riddle me this, you might think the flashback is a sign that Big Mom will be defeated.
But what kind of sign is it that Ceasar is placing mirrors all over the island for an escape strategy ? If Big Mom and the commanders are down, why would Oda go through such lengths of exploiting Brulee and separating Ceasar from the fight tasking him with mirror placement if Oda already knows that it would be redundant in the end ?
That is strange... Almost seems like that is being set up to escape from something. But what could that be if Big Mom is beaten ?
@bold for the readers sake. You're asking why would an author build up a scene one way when they know the result will not be impacted by the set up, that's called a twist and it's a fairly common literary device. They want you to expect a certain ending only to not give it to you.
Riker and Love are the only ones I've seen really saying that because it's easier to argue words you put in people's mouth than what they're actually saying sometimes.
Opinion. Tell me what you think might be lost by BM falling at the end of WCI. In what way would it hurt the story?
@bold for the readers sake. You're asking why would an author build up a scene one way when they know the result will not be impacted by the set up, that's called a twist and it's a fairly common literary device. They want you to expect a certain ending only to not give it to you.
lol not using the escape route the planned is not a twist Chopstick Night Shyamalan, So Ceasar's role in this arc is limited to creating a 'twist' ? His part in the plan is just putting down a mirror while the severely outnumbered alliance is fighting off a yonkou crew ?
You would be the worst person to explain literary devices to other people. You pay so little attention to the story that even Beezy is making better arguments than you do.
So riddle me this, you might think the flashback is a sign that Big Mom will be defeated.
But what kind of sign is it that Ceasar is placing mirrors all over the island for an escape strategy ? If Big Mom and the commanders are down, why would Oda go through such lengths of exploiting Brulee and separating Ceasar from the fight tasking him with mirror placement if Oda already knows that it would be redundant in the end ?
That is strange... Almost seems like that is being set up to escape from something. But what could that be if Big Mom is beaten ?
For a while, Oda gave us readers the notion that Law and Luffy's alliance was planning to have Kaido take down Doflamingo.. things don't always go as planned.
If Oda didn't have Ceasar and Brulee with the mirror escape plan, we as readers would know that no escape plan = no need to "run away" = Big Mom gets defeated for sure.
Honestly though, I don't think Oda wants his audience to believe Big Mom is gonna go down this arc, so it makes it even THAT much more epic when it happens.
Riker and Love are the only ones I've seen really saying that because it's easier to argue words you put in people's mouth than what they're actually saying sometimes.
Opinion. Tell me what you think might be lost by BM falling at the end of WCI. In what way would it hurt the story?
Oh, I can answer that for you bro.. it's his precious Big Mom vs Kaido fight that Oda has "built up" for so long.
lol give me a break..
The story and plot progression will be much smoother if Big Mom is defeated this arc.. she doesn't need more screen time. Kaido, Blackbeard, Shanks, the Admirals and Dragon/the Revolutionaries need more screen time and focus.
No one needs Big Mom to show up in the story again unless it's a final war with all pirates going up against the WG.. and she better be fighting for the Pirate King Mugiwara Luffy.
@bold for the readers sake. You're asking why would an author build up a scene one way when they know the result will not be impacted by the set up, that's called a twist and it's a fairly common literary device. They want you to expect a certain ending only to not give it to you.
lol