[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 865 Discussion and 866 Predictions

[Love Cook]

It's OK to disagree with Oda at some level. Theories are OKish than some people who wanna thrust their logic into our throats.

I see.

That is incorrect he doesn't follow the manga. The manga states in chapter 856 that Zeff is being held hostage even after that talk with Reiju. That could mean two things, Judge hasn't called back his goons. Because Reiju is not the boss or Big Mom has goons over there.

So it's really the Vinsmokes who were in charge of sending the "assassins" to threaten Zeff's life?

Big Mom just provided the Vinsmokes with intel on location and relationships and what not?

So Sanji saving his family alone is enough to relieve his worrying about Zeff's safety.. interesting...

Love Cook this could have actually been your answer..

We don't know what Judge has ordered, because in Judge's eyes. Sanji was still the failure that was going to be married by force before the wedding started. So Judge has to call of his theoretical hit squad or Sanji should destroy Big Mom's intel somehow.

But that is just speculating. We don't know the type of danger they're in.

Lol oh now your excuse is your not a fortune teller but before you were just so sure bigmom wouldnt be defeated how is this??? What did i miss ?? O i get it when you cant explain yourself you resort to that type of language hhahah!!! Idiotic

There is a difference between making a theory and asking me exactly what is going to happen based off a question you made up.

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[chopstickchakra]

Twisting someone's words is not quoting

Reiju telling Sanji Zeff was safe happened before Sanji said Zeff was still taken hostage by Big Mom Pirates. The Vinsmokes are not a factor anymore.

Sanji's conditions to wreck the wedding have not been yet met

Where does Sanji say anything about BM holding Zeff hostage? Who's twisting words?

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Show me a panel of BM ever threatening Zeff, and not the panel where Judge says they got the intel from BM's network, because every scene I recall involving a threat on Zeff came from the Vinsmokes, Mr. Encyclo-piece-ia. If there's not one, the Sanji knows BM's still threatening Zeff's life is just some speculation you're trying to use as fact.


Sanji didn't threaten to wreck the wedding Luffy did and he wrecked it since it's never gonna happen now or do you want to argue the definition of wrecking a wedding now? Sanji's conditions are so he can feel comfortable leaving the island, he doesn't have conditions for wrecking the wedding or they would have been done before wrecking the wedding.

Sanji saying Zeff is in danger means less than Reiju saying he's not since he's not part of the situation threatening him like she is, so her input has more weight behind it. In what way is Sanji saying he can't leave because of the risk to Zeff more valid than Reiju saying there isn't a risk to Zeff? Why should we take Sanji's word over hers when he's not as close to the situation or as well informed on the specifics as she is?

 

[Love Cook]

Where does Sanji say anything about BM holding Zeff hostage? Who's twisting words?

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Show me a panel of BM ever threatening Zeff, and not the panel where Judge says they got the intel from BM's network, because every scene I recall involving a threat on Zeff came from the Vinsmokes, Mr. Encyclo-piece-ia. If there's not one, the Sanji knows BM's still threatening Zeff's life is just some speculation you're trying to use as fact.


Sanji didn't threaten to wreck the wedding Luffy did and he wrecked it since it's never gonna happen now or do you want to argue the definition of wrecking a wedding now? Sanji's conditions are so he can feel comfortable leaving the island, he doesn't have conditions for wrecking the wedding or they would have been done before wrecking the wedding.

Sanji saying Zeff is in danger means less than Reiju saying he's not since he's not part of the situation threatening him like she is, so her input has more weight behind it. In what way is Sanji saying he can't leave because of the risk to Zeff more valid than Reiju saying there isn't a risk to Zeff? Why should we take Sanji's word over hers when he's not as close to the situation or as well informed on the specifics as she is?

Next page from the one which you showed. nice cherry picking there smart ass

The threat could also still be Judge's, we don't know that.

Sanji could get aboard the Sunny right there and then, but he had three conditions. Only way to achieve those was to wreck the wedding. Ergo Sanji was the cause to wreck the wedding.

Reiju is not the boss within the Vinsmoke family.

Everything you ask can just be found in the manga. Too bad you're blind for facts and to stubborn to read.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Next page from the one which you showed. nice cherry picking there smart ass

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The next page doesn't mention BM either, keep twisting words to fit your narrative, smart ass.

The threat could also still be Judge's, we don't know that.

There is no threat from Judge because Judge is in a position where he can't execute any threats. If Sanji left BM would still kill the Vinsmokes as that was always her plan, so they wouldn't be able to follow through on their threat to Zeff.

Sanji could get aboard the Sunny right there and then, but he had three conditions. Only way to achieve those was to wreck the wedding. Ergo Sanji was the cause to wreck the wedding.

Sanji was the cause of wrecking the wedding because Luffy needed to bring him back. Sanji never said wreck the wedding before Luffy got there, he was going along with it. It's been Luffy steering the wreck the wedding ship since the start.

You act like I'm trying to say there's no other reason they attacked the wedding than to beat up BM and I'm not, there are alternative reasons but saving Zeff isn't a valid reason because there's 2 scenarios A. Zeff is hostage of the Vinsmokes or B. hostage of BM.

If it's A then there's no threat at all; either Sanji saves his family and they spare Zeff in gratitude and since BM betrayed them or they die at BM's hands if he had fled and Zeff is spared since BM isn't after him as her true goal with this wedding was the Vinsmokes' tech and killing them.

OR

If it's B then that means BM has him and if BM has him than what other way then defeating her could Sanji save Zeff from BM's rage at him for ruining her big day? Destroying her intel system wouldn't work because A they already know where he is and he doesn't leave the East Blue in that restaurant and B if they don't beat her directly she'll be perfectly able to rebuild anything they destroy in time.

Reiju is not the boss within the Vinsmoke family.

I didn't say she was the boss of the Vinsmokes I said she has more informed intel than Sanji since she's involved in the plot and Sanji isn't, good job arguing a point you came up with you're really good at that.

Everything you ask can just be found in the manga. Too bad you're blind for facts and to stubborn to read.

No that's the point what I'm asking you about is your interpretation of what's in the manga but isn't actually there and you don't seem to be able to show cases or don't care enough to prove yourself and if it's the latter than why should we believe you?;
- Sanji said BM has Zeff hostage.
- Luffy saying I'll fight you here and now and win in the end doesn't mean he'll fight her here on WCI and win
- They didn't wreck the wedding

 

[ArabianLuffy]

@Love Cook, @chopstickchakra: You know, guys? Whether the Charlottes or the Vinsmokes, they both are a threat to Baratie. Even Pekoms just know Baratie by a name only is enough. Both Charlottes and Vinsmokes have their own Intel.

 

[LBeezy]

@Love Cook, @chopstickchakra: You know, guys? Whether the Charlottes or the Vinsmokes, they both are a threat to Baratie. Even Pekoms just know Baratie by a name only is enough. Both Charlottes and Vinsmokes have their own Intel.

Where's the threat in this scenario?

Big Mom gets defeated this arc and the Vinsmokes are grateful for Sanji and the SH's help..

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Where's the threat in this scenario?

Big Mom gets defeated this arc and the Vinsmokes are grateful for Sanji and the SH's help..

I'm talking about previous chapters. Now sure, things have changed. Sides will change.

 

[chopstickchakra]

@Love Cook, @chopstickchakra: You know, guys? Whether the Charlottes or the Vinsmokes, they both are a threat to Baratie. Even Pekoms just know Baratie by a name only is enough. Both Charlottes and Vinsmokes have their own Intel.

How would the Vinsmokes have followed through on their threat to Zeff though if BM intended to kill them from the second they were all on WCI? Sanji only learned of Zeff on WCI so by the time he learned of the threat it was already null since BM wouldn't let the Vinsmokes leave WCI to follow through on the threat. If Sanji had ran away right after hearing the threat on Zeff BM wouldn't tell the Vinsmokes to kill Zeff she already had what she wanted and all the Germa were on WCI.


Side note: How long do some of you want Luffy to wait before he starts fighting/defeating Yonkou? Who else is in his way to be PK besides Yonkou's and Marines? He's beaten or made allies of all but two of the Shichibukai(assuming Mihawk won't also ally with his "protege" of sorts' captain and his rivals' protege)

 

[Mystikk]

How would the Vinsmokes have followed through on their threat to Zeff though if BM intended to kill them from the second they were all on WCI? Sanji only learned of Zeff on WCI so by the time he learned of the threat it was already null since BM wouldn't let the Vinsmokes leave WCI to follow through on the threat. If Sanji had ran away right after hearing the threat on Zeff BM wouldn't tell the Vinsmokes to kill Zeff she already had what she wanted and all the Germa were on WCI.


Side note: How long do some of you want Luffy to wait before he starts fighting/defeating Yonkou? Who else is in his way to be PK besides Yonkou's and Marines? He's beaten or made allies of all but two of the Shichibukai(assuming Mihawk won't also ally with his "protege" of sorts' captain and his rivals' protege)

Exactly bro.. they act like luffy has more fodders to go through... lmao they want all the yonkou to fight eachother and have luffy come in an take the tittle of pk by just defeating blackbeard smh! Luffy said himself he will be the one to defeat all the yonkou!! That gets me hyped because that means bigmom ass is grass this arc! And that also means even shankks will have to face him soon!

Maybe not like a death battle but just like a fight to see if luffy is worthy of that tittle who knows what will happen when they lock eyes again!

 

[Love Cook]

Exactly bro.. they act like luffy has more fodders to go through... lmao they want all the yonkou to fight eachother and have luffy come in an take the tittle of pk by just defeating blackbeard smh! Luffy said himself he will be the one to defeat all the yonkou!! That gets me hyped because that means bigmom ass is grass this arc! And that also means even shankks will have to face him soon!

Maybe not like a death battle but just like a fight to see if luffy is worthy of that tittle who knows what will happen when they lock eyes again!

The last two fodders Luffy fought kicked his ass in 1 vs 1 scenario's

Law and Nami had to save his ass. I guess the title of yonkou is subject to inflation if Oda follows people like you.

You're a one day fly hyper, if you would write One Piece you would blow up the power scale and turn it into Naruto or Fairy Tail. I still believe that Luffy won't be able to beat her this arc.

 

[LBeezy]

The last two fodders Luffy fought kicked his ass in 1 vs 1 scenario's

Law and Nami had to save his ass. I guess the title of yonkou is subject to inflation if Oda follows people like you.

You're a one day fly hyper, if you would write One Piece you would blow up the power scale and turn it into Naruto or Fairy Tail. I still believe that Luffy won't be able to beat her this arc.

@bold

How can you say that if they never fully fought 1v1 in the first place though?

 

[Punk Hazard]

@bold

How can you say that if they never fully fought 1v1 in the first place though?

1 vs 1 scenarios, scenarios being the key word. The fact that Luffy's victory against Cracker and Doflamingo required the input of outside forces/abilities means that in a 1 vs 1 scenario where these forces or equivalent aren't available, Luffy would lose.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The last two fodders Luffy fought kicked his ass in 1 vs 1 scenario's

Law and Nami had to save his ass. I guess the title of yonkou is subject to inflation if Oda follows people like you.

You're a one day fly hyper, if you would write One Piece you would blow up the power scale and turn it into Naruto or Fairy Tail. I still believe that Luffy won't be able to beat her this arc.

You bring up 1v1 like it's some type of criteria. Nobody said he's gotta beat them 1 on 1 to count. A good deal of his fights Luffy's had help beating the enemy(Moria, Arlong, Enel...) It doesn't matter if he won 1 on 1 or won the fights with help, the fight's won and done either way. Just because they could have beaten him in a different scenario is irrelevant to the direction the story took. Just because BM can beat Luffy 1 on 1 doesn't mean she can't lose here now.

 

[Love Cook]

You bring up 1v1 like it's some type of criteria. Nobody said he's gotta beat them 1 on 1 to count. A good deal of his fights Luffy's had help beating the enemy(Moria, Arlong, Enel...) It doesn't matter if he won 1 on 1 or won the fights with help, the fight's won and done either way. Just because they could have beaten him in a different scenario is irrelevant to the direction the story took. Just because BM can beat Luffy 1 on 1 doesn't mean she can't lose here now.

Yes maybe Big Mom can lose here and now.

And Dogtooth, and Smoothie, and Tamago, and Amande, and Mont d'or, and Galette, and Perospero, and Opera, and Counter, and Zeus, Prometheus, Napoleon, and Daifuku, and Oven. and Pudding

oh my, that is quite the list and those are just the ones introduced up till now and running around at the wedding. Like Daifuku and Oven came out of nowhere, who knows how many more fighters there are. You like parallels right ? In how many of the previous arcs where Luffy fought a boss, were all the henchmen still running around ?

So far we have seen a team of Bege, Luffy, Pedro and Jimbei struggle against Katakuri. Sanji was having trouble with Daifuku. Brook got his head knocked off, Pedro fought equally against a weaker version of Tamago than he is now and got burned by Oven. Things are certainly looking Luffy's way.

The only way I see a possible victory for the Strawhats is if the underworld bosses smell blood in the water and side with the alliance.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Yes maybe Big Mom can lose here and now.

And Dogtooth, and Smoothie, and Tamago, and Amande, and Mont d'or, and Galette, and Perospero, and Opera, and Counter, and Zeus, Prometheus, Napoleon, and Daifuku, and Oven.

oh my, that is quite the list and those are just the ones introduced up till now and running around at the wedding. Like Daifuku and Oven came out of nowhere, who knows how many more fighters there are.

You don't have to beat every underling to win a fight every time, very often once the top seat is beaten the rank and file give up the fight but good job listing BM subordinates.

You like parallels right ? In how many of the previous arcs where Luffy fought a boss, were all the henchmen still running around ?

Idk probably most if not all of them but this fight isn't over yet so why are you talking like they're all still standing while BM's on the floor and treating it like a valid point? Some of them will be taken out, a good chunk of them already kind of were with the scream we'll need to wait and see how long that keeps people out. We also still have all of Bege's crew who's got no depth as of yet(you're acting like BM's the only one with unknowns) and at least 4 Vinsmokes(I don't think Yonji will be that big of an impact unless his tech counters an opponents)

So far we have seen a team of Bege, Luffy, Pedro and Jimbei struggle against Katakuri. Sanji was having trouble with Daifuku. Brook got his head knocked off, Pedro fought equally against a weaker version of Tamago than he is now and got burned by Oven.



The only way I see a possible victory for the Strawhats is if the underworld bosses smell blood in the water and side with the alliance.

Yes Sanji's struggled against Daifuku in the panels we've seen but he was also distracted, he was protecting Pudding the first time and trying to reach his parents the second. If Sanji even goes back to fighting Daifuku I expect him to fair better since he'd be able to focus on the fight at hand. Sure the genie is strong but we don't know about Daifuku himself, if Sanji can blitz passed the genie Daifuku may have low durability like Cracker or BM, both of whom once their defense was passed took damage pretty easily.

Things are certainly looking Luffy's way.

You act like things have to be obviously in his favor to win or he won't, were things looking Luffy's way in DR when he was gassed out and Doffy was coming at him? Were things looking Luffy's way against Lucci? No but he still ended up winning, the former due to help the latter due to determination. How many fights were looking Luffy's way? Hody, Enel(maybe)?

 

[Love Cook]

You don't have to beat every underling to win a fight every time, very often once the top seat is beaten the rank and file give up the fight but good job listing BM subordinates.



Idk probably most if not all of them but this fight isn't over yet so why are you talking like they're all still standing while BM's on the floor and treating it like a valid point? Some of them will be taken out, a good chunk of them already kind of were with the scream we'll need to wait and see how long that keeps people out. We also still have all of Bege's crew who's got no depth as of yet(you're acting like BM's the only one with unknowns) and at least 4 Vinsmokes(I don't think Yonji will be that big of an impact unless his tech counters an opponents)





Yes Sanji's struggled against Daifuku in the panels we've seen but he was also distracted, he was protecting Pudding the first time and trying to reach his parents the second. If Sanji even goes back to fighting Daifuku I expect him to fair better since he'd be able to focus on the fight at hand. Sure the genie is strong but we don't know about Daifuku himself, if Sanji can blitz passed the genie Daifuku may have low durability like Cracker or BM, both of whom once their defense was passed took damage pretty easily.



You act like things have to be obviously in his favor to win or he won't, were things looking Luffy's way in DR when he was gassed out and Doffy was coming at him? Were things looking Luffy's way against Lucci? No but he still ended up winning, the former due to help the latter due to determination. How many fights were looking Luffy's way? Hody, Enel(maybe)?

We'll see, I'm just not getting that vibe at all that Luffy is here to win. I had that vibe all the way through Dressrosa even though Doflamingo was so much stronger.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You act like things have to be obviously in his favor to win or he won't, were things looking Luffy's way in DR when he was gassed out and Doffy was coming at him? Were things looking Luffy's way against Lucci?

Uhhh, yes they were. Luffy in Gear Second outpaced Rob Lucci quite a few times in that fight and it wasn't until the doping effect slowed that Lucci got the edge back. Against Doflamingo, there was the Gear 4th onslaught where Luffy had the advantage, as well as Law weakening Doffy and the gladiators helping him out and successfully keeping Doflamingo distracted.

This situation is slightly different because we've had clear instances of Luffy not being strong enough for Big Mom, and his team being at a disadvantage with Katakuri handling Luffy, Jinbei, and Pedro all at the same time, and they're the top guys on Luffy's side rn.

 

[chopstickchakra]

We'll see, I'm just not getting that vibe at all that Luffy is here to win. I had that vibe all the way through Dressrosa even though Doflamingo was so much stronger.

All we can do is wait. I get the vibe Luffy wants to kick BM's ass here and now, whether he can is something we'll have to see. Though given what we've seen in the manga and the fact they are the MC's I'm putting my money on Luffy.

Uhhh, yes they were. Luffy in Gear Second outpaced Rob Lucci quite a few times in that fight and it wasn't until the doping effect slowed that Lucci got the edge back. Against Doflamingo, there was the Gear 4th onslaught where Luffy had the advantage, as well as Law weakening Doffy and the gladiators helping him out and successfully keeping Doflamingo distracted.

This situation is slightly different because we've had clear instances of Luffy not being strong enough for Big Mom, and his team being at a disadvantage with Katakuri handling Luffy, Jinbei, and Pedro all at the same time, and they're the top guys on Luffy's side rn.

Of course the situations are slightly different or else it'd be the same story each time but there were clear instances of Luffy not being strong enough for Doffy early on until we saw G4 and even then it's not clear who would win so I'd say Doffy is fairly similar to the BM situation now.

And yes Luffy was able to get the edge in the battle against Lucci a few times but idk I'd say things looked in his favor at any point in that fight since even when outpacing him Luffy wasn't doing enough damage to gain a drastic edge, the fight went to the last second, it was like a KO at 2:58 in the 12th round.

Plus that was kind of my point, that until x happens(Lucci-Gear 2, Doffy-Gear 4 and help...no I'm not predicting a new gear) those fights don't look to be in Luffy's favor. Currently the fight may not look in Luffy's favor but that doesn't mean x can't/won't happen. The Vinsmokes could be the x, the missiles, the Tamatebako etc. That's all I was saying.

 

[LBeezy]

1 vs 1 scenarios, scenarios being the key word. The fact that Luffy's victory against Cracker and Doflamingo required the input of outside forces/abilities means that in a 1 vs 1 scenario where these forces or equivalent aren't available, Luffy would lose.

Again my friend, some of you guys truly think that Luffy had help in these fights while his opponent stood all alone.

Doflamingo had the same amount of help as Luffy in Dressrosa, if not more..

Cracker didn't stand before Luffy right when the Sunny landed.. Luffy had to deal with Brulee and her shenanigans in the forest first.


Yall act like Doflamingo and Cracker didn't have any help.. it's ridiculous.

At the end of the day, whenever it came down to just Luffy and his opponent truly 1v1, Luffy overpowered them and won.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Again my friend, some of you guys truly think that Luffy had help in these fights while his opponent stood all alone.

Doflamingo had the same amount of help as Luffy in Dressrosa, if not more..

No he didn't. The energy Luffy spent in the tournament is irrelevant because he ate afterwards, meaning he got that energy right back.

He didn't spend any energy getting to the palace unless it was against Doflamingo himself.

The damage he got from Trebol and Bellamy can be delivered through Awakening, unless you think Bellamy is stronger than Doflamingo's Awakening. Luffy has no way to compensate for the damage Law delivered and the help he got from the gladiators by himself, which means he loses 1 vs 1.

Cracker didn't stand before Luffy right when the Sunny landed.. Luffy had to deal with Brulee and her shenanigans in the forest first.

Brulee did nothing of consequence to Luffy.

Yall act like Doflamingo and Cracker didn't have any help.. it's ridiculous.

The "help" Doflamingo got can be compensated for with Awakening, which is superior to Bellamy. Luffy has nothing on his own that can compensate for Gamma Knife and the gladiators helping him.