[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 856 Discussion and 857 Predictions

[LBeezy]

I didn't say Luffy alone would beat her did I? So asking what he has to beat her is redundant. He has 2 armies, a crew member with an inherent advantage over her DF Homies(a good chunk of her crew from what we've seen) and we got a hint when she killed her son her ability to take souls relies on fear of her which Luffy will have none. I would consider it good because it's the ground work Oda has laid and to divert from it would be a waste.

None of you can explain how it's technically "bad" writing for the main character to clear the obstacles in their path. In your opinions it's better writing to have someone else completely unrelated with the MC clear his obstacles for him. What you all call "poor" writing is how you describe an author taking a path you wouldn't have chose or didn't want to see.

You say we're hell bent but it's the BM vs Kaidou would be so much better story telling group that's pushing an idea. I'm gauging what's likely to happen off what's currently happening, they're crying for a fight that may not happening and calling anything besides it bad story telling. Yes Kaidou wants Caesar and yes BM has him but we don't know that Kaidou's ever even going to find out, yet you all treat it as fact he will and will come for him when he does and will have a fight with BM for him. We've seen Yonkou aren't big on fighting with WB/Shanks and Kaidou/Shanks so you're all ruling out negotiations too soon. BM could just tell Kaidou "OK, give me a few months for him to make my giants then he's all yours for your Smiles" but again it's not what you all want to see so it's "poor writing" even though it's a perfectly reasonable way the interaction could go given the instances we've seen of Yonkou meetings.



You're expansive story lines have the future PK not defeating a single Yonkou on his way there. Yeah great story telling abilities I see why WSJ's looking to bring you in.



And he'll have help beating BM too, so again how is it bad writing for the MC to defeat an enemy that stands in his way of his goal?

So it's poor writing because you think there's a better choice, got ya. What happens past that possible conflict? Maybe this instance sets up something else? No, Oda wouldn't do anything like that though. BM will definitely have to fight Kaidou because of Caesar, it's not like people can negotiate and it's not like we have precedent of Yonkou's being hesitant to fight one another.

Definitely one of the best posts in this thread.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Well my reason for Luffy not beating Big Mom after this chapter is that Luffy always makes the promise I'M GOING TO KICK YOUR ASS ! or he makes the damsel in distress ask for it like Rebecca and Doffy, Nami and Arlong. He always makes the promise to take them down and he never fails that promise.

This chapter Sanji asked to crash the party, and Luffy promised to crash the party. No promise of Big Mom ass kicking.

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Sarcastic or not, he already made that promise to BM.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Definitely one of the best posts in this thread.

lmaooooo okay.

 

[LBeezy]

lmaooooo okay.

You and Dannie and Love Cook (and I'm sure I'm forgetting the names of some other members) are just being ridiculous at this point..

"If the story doesn't go according to what we want it's bad writing!"

Lmao like yo, get out of here with that shit bro.. Oda is the G.O.A.T.! I'm sure that whatever he decides to do is going to be epic af.. just relax and enjoy the ride my dude.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You and Dannie and Love Cook (and I'm sure I'm forgetting the names of some other members) are just being ridiculous at this point..

"If the story doesn't go according to what we want it's bad writing!"

No one said this, but accurate representation of your reading comprehension skills.

 

[LBeezy]

No one said this, but accurate representation of your reading comprehension skills.

Actually you have said this.

Every single post you say this.

Apparently you're not aware of what you're typing.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Nope. Quit the bullshitting. You know that's not our argument, and you're not using "not making it verbatim," since you keep arguing te point of the main character stopping his obstacles, when no one has said that's a problem. The bold is exactly what I'm talking about. No one said that Luffy defeating an Emperor is bad writing. Get the hell outta here.

In what way is saying "if Luffy beats BM here and now then it's bad writing" not saying Luffy beating a Yonkou is bad writing? What? Am I ****in backwards right now? That may not be what you meant but it's what you said and it's not up to me to decide what you meant.

Who said that they are guaranteed to fight? Hold on, lemme go re-read my posts real quick...






Yup, just like I said, more strawmanning.

I'm judging the POTENTIAL of a FUTURE storyline in comparison to the POTENTIAL of another FUTURE storyline, and saying that one would be better writing than the other. There is no fault here, since I'm not saying anything about the CURRENT storyline's quality.

What would the future story line after Kaidou beats BM or BM beats Kaidou for Caesar that looks the best in your mind include? What could we really get from one of them beating the other that we couldn't get from her falling during the wedding? Both ways the balance is gone. One way a Yonkou gets more rep, just what they need. The other 2 Novas get rep and our MC's get a push. Both leave one Yonkou left on the path to PK. One way gains a possible clone army ally for our MC's grand fleet. The other leaves them either as is or unlucky enough to be at WCI when Kaidou gets there. Granted that'd be interesting. Shit I need to stop talking.


Yes, because One Piece is not set up like series that do this. Luffy does get MC treatment, but it's never to the point that the extensive world of side characters introduced become irrelevant and obsolete. The idea of Luffy being the only one who should defeat the Emperors DOES render them irrelevant and obsolete because it says that only Luffy can do the important things. Oda does not 100% avoid the main character trope, but he has never succumbed to it on a level like Naruto and Dragon Ball Z has, and I'd like for the writing to continue that trend. Luffy defeating the Emperors by himself would NOT be following the trend Oda has set up. Luffy does not need to be the one to defeat all four Emperors to show his superiority to them.

The bolded has never been the basis of my argument. Again, quit the strawman bullshit.

That was supposed to be we'd get.

WHAT? I have never said my opinion is fact, I am simply using facts to argue my opinion. That is what a debate is.

I'm talking about your description of the possible BM/Kaidou interaction. You talk about it as if the only way it can play out is the way that falls in line with your expectations of how it would go down.

Explain to me how establishing relevance and importance for side characters and then throwing away that importance so Luffy can do it all ISN'T wasting world building. Go ahead, I'll wait as long as you need to take.

Because I'm not talking about throwing away any characters, Luffy being there when each Yonkou is defeated doesn't take anyone's importance away? Who is this mysterious side character you keep referring to whose vital role would be wasted? What was that word again?

The writing would be bad because of the level of wasting it would be and how largely cliche it would be. There are OBJECTIVE aspects to writing as well. Following cliches and doing the same thing a 100 stories have done in the past is OBJECTIVELY lazy writing.



Except it doesn't, but it detracts from the path of "This world matters, these characters matter, it's not just Luffy's story." THAT'S what Oda has laid since the beginning, NOT this story of "It's Luffy, it's all Luffy, it's all about Luffy." Luffy might be the central and most important character, but Oda has never made that path by establishing other characters as important, and then wasting that importance.

That's not objectively bad though, that's still just you not liking the direction the writing took. Something can be cliche and still be good. If the writing hits the criteria for the genre(I'm blanking on how I really wanna word that) then regardless of how you feel about it, it's objectively good just not good to you. As for it throwing away world building I don't agree that it throws away any world building or characters because we both know Luffy will have help defeating each Yonkou(assuming he does).

And this right here is exactly the problem. You're thinking of this story narrowly, and only looking at it as "The Strawhats." It is NOT. There is an entire world around them that is also supposed to be important. It has been stressed time and time and time again that the balance of the three powers is something that is CRITICALLY important to the world as a whole. Big Mom and Kaido taking each other out and throwing that balance completely off of its hinges(not coincidentally at the same time that Fujitora is leading a charge against the failing Shichibukai system, another key aspect of the Balance) means repercussions would be felt across the ENTIRE WORLD OF ONE PIECE. But no, that's not quite as cool and interesting as "What's gonna happen to Luffy," right?

Oh, I suppose we're also going to pretend that the Strawhats being in the middle of such a thing wouldn't lead to repercussions on them anyways. So in my way, we can have drastic worldwide repercussions AND repercussions on the Strawhats for being the catalysts that cause such a thing. What does your bullshit bring to the table?



B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b--b-b-b-b--b-b-b-b-b--but this is Luffy's sotry who cares about the Sooparnovahs, it's all aboot LOOFY!

At the end of the day though regardless of how you or I or everyone else in this thread really feels about it, the book is about the SH's and Luffy. All the depth and supporting cast is great but at some point they're gonna take a back seat to the MC that's how stories go. And honestly there's so much built and it seems it's coming to an end quicker than most expected that we might not get to see all there is or what we wanted. There's a theory that I'd love to see play out that'd bring Don Krieg back as Chinjao's son/Sai's dad but I feel some stuff even if intended may get left in the air.

As for what it would bring if Luffy beat BM an not Kaidou, the same thing. Regardless if Luffy beats her or Kaidou does the Yonkou balance is gone and Fuji is still leading the charge to disband the shichibukai. So what's different? Oh right the fact that the SH's and Capone, 2 Nova's, took out a Yonkou will make a much bigger wave through the OP world then if one Yonkou took down another. Kaidou being the one to take out BM does nothing to further the story it only plays on the Caesar that really has no reaon to lead to a fight when as I said it'd be much easier and logical for BM to negotiate to have Caesar finish her giants then give him to Kaido. And yes Kaidou could refuse but again what does Kaidou taking out BM get us over 2 Nova stepping up and taking down a Yonkou? You think people wouldn't hear they both were there and assume Luffy made another alliance? Even if they're wrong that misconception would cause a lot of moves in and of itself.

So we're gonna ignore that Kaido has challenged the other Emperors in the past and was about to go attack Whitebeard? That Big Mom is actively planning to challenge the four Emperors and did so in the past?

Key word being, past. We're not in the past anymore, why not use current time frame examples, you know from when the story's actually taking place, like Shanks/WB or Shanks/Kaidou? Maybe because they counter your point rather than prove it?

Since when was going to MF Kaido's ultimate goal chopstick? Oh yeah, my bad, I remember Kaido teaming up with Doffy and crying because his dream was to go to Marineford, right? Damn what a joke.

Attacking Whitebeard was his goal and Shanks convinced him not to. What was that word you've been clinging to lately? Try to shake being wrong with all the snark you want fact is fact and fact is you were wrong when you said there was precedence Kaidou doesn't negotiate when we have evidence he does. And no Caesar and the SMILE are not his "Ultimate goal" that would be death.

lmaooooo okay.

Don't go being bitter guy. Don't see me mocking anyone for agreeing with you.



Rereading this we're repeating the same thing throughout most of this so I'm gonna call it a day.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Actually you have said this.

Every single post you say this.

Apparently you're not aware of what you're typing.

In what way is saying "if Luffy beats BM here and now then it's bad writing" not saying Luffy beating a Yonkou is bad writing? What? Am I ****in backwards right now? That may not be what you meant but it's what you said and it's not up to me to decide what you meant.

I'm gonna address these two at the same time. First off, yes Chopstick, you're ****ing backwards, have been for a while.

Secondly, the statement "If Luffy beats Big Mom here and now, it's bad writing" is not saying Luffy beating an Emperor is bad writing. That's taking it out of context. That's replying "So you don't want to eat hot dogs?" if I say "I don't want to eat a burnt hot dog that fell in mud."

The key words are HERE AND NOW. The story, AS IT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO US THUS FAR, has three key elements:

1. It has been established that Luffy is not as strong as Big Mom in this arc.

2. A POTENTIAL storyline that consists of the two individual storylines of Kaido and Big Mom has had ample set-up.

3. The series of One Piece has set up a path of an all encompassing world of important characters.

These three reasons are why Luffy beating Big Mom, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, is bad writing.

Not because Luffy beating an Emperor is bad writing. But because of THESE REASONS TOGETHER that contradict the notion of Luffy beating Big Mom here and now. Is that clear, or does that need more explaining?

What would the future story line after Kaidou beats BM or BM beats Kaidou for Caesar that looks the best in your mind include? What could we really get from one of them beating the other that we couldn't get from her falling during the wedding? Both ways the balance is gone.

Gonna address this first. The key point of this is set-up. Oda has gone out of his way to set up numerous parallels between Big Mom and Kaido's storylines and established a key figure in both storylines that would make it perfect for the two storylines to combine. Should Big Mom fall here, that storyline can still proceed with the balance being disturbed as a result of Big Mom's absence. However, while both ways can share this attribute, one way wastes the potential of combining the two storylines. Why should Oda waste that potential? To give Luffy a push? Well I'll address that below.

One way a Yonkou gets more rep, just what they need. The other 2 Novas get rep and our MC's get a push.

Both can happen my way. Kaido and Big Mom fight, one of them wins, the other loses, one of them get more rep. However, the two other Novas and Luffy can still get a push as a result of being the ones that caused this to happen in the first place. Think about that, these Emperors are at odds with each other all of the time, and yet their operations continue to flourish despite this. Now, these Novas step in, and throw not one Emperor's operations into shambles, but TWO. There's no way that at this point of the story, the Strawhats would leave this situation without the credit for it happening. This still gives them a HUGE push, and capitalizes on the world-building and the fact that Oda isn't so poor a writer that only the main characters get shine and significant moments in the story.

So, so far, your way yields:

1. Push for Luffy and Novas at the cost of world building and Oda's trend of side character involvement and importance.

While mine yields the push AND maintains the world building AND maintains side character involvement.

The problem with your scenario, right off the bat, is that reduces these characters as nothing more than vehicles for Luffy's story, to be thrown away once Luffy is done with them. That is NOT the world Oda has set up. These characters don't exist just in a vacuum where they're only important because of when Luffy needs them to be. While Luffy's story is the MAIN story, these characters also have a side story to them. One Piece isn't just one character's story, it's a bunch of characters' stories intertwined with Luffy's as the MAIN focus, not the ONLY focus. One Piece isn't a thin needle of Luffy's story, it's a rocket with Luffy's story being the nosecone. Yes, it's the most prominent and focused on part, but it carries with it a vast amount of other stories, or parts of that rocket, and that's what makes One Piece great.

Your way wastes all of that for the sake of "He's main character, he must have all the glory no matter the cost!"

Both leave one Yonkou left on the path to PK.

So what? We also have the other Supernova, hundreds if not thousands if not millions of other pirates, the three Admirals, Cipher Pol, the Gorosei, the Fleet Admiral, the Commander in Chief, other organizations like the Germa Army which includes the Marines, and Emperor allies for Luffy to have as competition and obstacles. So why does Luffy absolutely need to beat all four Emperors with all of these entities standing in his way? Are you saying that if we took out the Emperors and threw these at Luffy, that'd be too little?

And why does Luffy have to defeat all four Emperors anyways? If he defeats the strongest one, then he can prove his superiority to them, and get a major push while doing so anyways without having to be the one that takes down all four.

One way gains a possible clone army ally for our MC's grand fleet. The other leaves them either as is or unlucky enough to be at WCI when Kaidou gets there. Granted that'd be interesting. Shit I need to stop talking.

How the hell does beating Big Mom here give them a clone army?

I'm talking about your description of the possible BM/Kaidou interaction. You talk about it as if the only way it can play out is the way that falls in line with your expectations of how it would go down.

No I haven't. I'm simply arguing for what I view as the best possible storyline and WHY it's the best possible one.

Because I'm not talking about throwing away any characters, Luffy being there when each Yonkou is defeated doesn't take anyone's importance away? Who is this mysterious side character you keep referring to whose vital role would be wasted? What was that word again?

Yes you are. By saying that the defeat of the Emperors has to this super important moment in the story and that only Luffy can do those moments, you leave no room for other characters to do anything. When all you want is "Luffy is MC, Luffy gets MC shine," you **** up because you're leaving no room for the rest of them.

That's not objectively bad though, that's still just you not liking the direction the writing took. Something can be cliche and still be good.

I disagree. If you have a chance to write a storyline that is not only new for your story, but generally new for your genre over a cliched story that has been written hundreds of times, and you pick the latter, then that is an objectively bad decision. There is no two-ways about that, it's that black and white. Sure, other elements of the story ALONG with that may be good, such as the fight itself, or the humor, or the art, or whatever it is, but those elements will just be vehicles for carrying a bad decision. And sometimes it's not a decision that can be avoided, but when it's a case like this where it can be, then there's really no excuse for making it.

I don't want to read Oda retelling the same story that has been told hundreds of times starring One Piece's characters in the same roles that came hundreds of times before them, I want to see Oda writing One Piece. It's not better because I want to see it, I want to see it because it's better. Don't try to erroneously flip it backwards again.

If the writing hits the criteria for the genre(I'm blanking on how I really wanna word that) then regardless of how you feel about it, it's objectively good just not good to you.

Being cliche is not the same as hitting the criteria for the genre(especially when the criteria is action and humor aimed for older children and young teens).

As for it throwing away world building I don't agree that it throws away any world building or characters because we both know Luffy will have help defeating each Yonkou(assuming he does).

That in of itself is fine as a general concept. In the context of the particular storylines circulating Big mom and Kaido, it's simply not as good.

At the end of the day though regardless of how you or I or everyone else in this thread really feels about it, the book is about the SH's and Luffy. All the depth and supporting cast is great but at some point they're gonna take a back seat to the MC that's how stories go.

Stop repeating yourself. We've already covered this. Yes, they have to take a backseat at some point, but **** no should they take one as far back as you want them to go. That's DBZ and Naruto levels of writing, which One Piece has set itself above in the past.

And honestly there's so much built and it seems it's coming to an end quicker than most expected that we might not get to see all there is or what we wanted. There's a theory that I'd love to see play out that'd bring Don Krieg back as Chinjao's son/Sai's dad but I feel some stuff even if intended may get left in the air.

Okay.

As for what it would bring if Luffy beat BM an not Kaidou, the same thing. Regardless if Luffy beats her or Kaidou does the Yonkou balance is gone and Fuji is still leading the charge to disband the shichibukai. So what's different? Oh right the fact that the SH's and Capone, 2 Nova's, took out a Yonkou will make a much bigger wave through the OP world then if one Yonkou took down another.

Nope. As I said before, the Strawhats directly instigating this drastic change and being the catalysts for why it happened can create that same wave while doing something new for both story and genre while capitalizing more on world-building than your method while keeping character relevance alive. Your method reduces the story being Luffy in the world of One Piece to merely Luffy's story, and there's a giant difference.

Kaidou being the one to take out BM does nothing to further the story it only plays on the Caesar that really has no reaon to lead to a fight when as I said it'd be much easier and logical for BM to negotiate to have Caesar finish her giants then give him to Kaido.

There's far too small a chance they would ever come to terms like this.

And yes Kaidou could refuse but again what does Kaidou taking out BM get us over 2 Nova stepping up and taking down a Yonkou?

Already addressed above in several locations of this post.

You think people wouldn't hear they both were there and assume Luffy made another alliance? Even if they're wrong that misconception would cause a lot of moves in and of itself.

And you just shoot yourself in the foot by admitting that Luffy doesn't need to be the one to defeat them to gain moves, but mere perception of his involvement to any degree will bring moves.

Key word being, past. We're not in the past anymore, why not use current time frame examples, you know from when the story's actually taking place, like Shanks/WB or Shanks/Kaidou? Maybe because they counter your point rather than prove it?

It does not? We have a history of Emperors going after each other. That cannot be ignored simply because we are in a period of relative peace. Big Mom is currently planning against them, so why are you acting like the Yonko are sitting around in a stasis and will never make a move against each other again?

The past plays a pivotal role in One Piece's present. The past isn't simply just left in the past. Or has the ENTIRE STORY OF THE VOID CENTURY AND WILL OF D. ESCAPED YOU?

Attacking Whitebeard was his goal and Shanks convinced him not to.

Was that his ultimate goal Chopstick? Luffy's goal once upon a time was to get a giant statue on the Sunny, I suppose that's Luffy's main goal on the same level as becoming Pirate King right? Let the straws go.

What was that word you've been clinging to lately? Try to shake being wrong with all the snark you want fact is fact and fact is you were wrong when you said there was precedence Kaidou doesn't negotiate when we have evidence he does. And no Caesar and the SMILE are not his "Ultimate goal" that would be death.

Kaido's goal is not death. His ultimate goal was literally stated to be the SMILE operation and having a crew of all Zoans. That was stated to be his dream, dying was stated to be a hobby.

 

[Mystikk]

Dude didn't you hear? Seeing Luffy do the exact same thing as always, even when it makes no sense and betrays world building, is better than seeing new, expansive storylines.

Yea and apparently its poor writing when the story doesnt go your way. An expansive story sounds incredibly boring..

Honestly bro we just want to see luffy fight and defeat the yonko.. not the other way around. I could careless how he does it but apparently you guys are gonna wet yourselves if the story doesnt go as you planned lmao.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yea and apparently its poor writing when the story doesnt go your way.

Not gonna even bother addressing this lack of reading comprehension anymore.

An expansive story sounds incredibly boring..

A story about that incorporates the entire world Oda spent time meticulously building sounds boring when compared to a story about just one character. Wow. Guess that just shows how crappy your taste is.

Honestly bro we just want to see luffy fight and defeat the yonko.. not the other way around. I could careless how he does it but apparently you guys are gonna wet yourselves if the story doesnt go as you planned lmao.

How do you start off a post by bashing a concept of where the story can go, and then saying that the story has to go your way and ending it by bashing people who "want it to go their way?"

How ****ing old are you?

 

[Mystikk]

Not gonna even bother addressing this lack of reading comprehension anymore.



A story about that incorporates the entire world Oda spent time meticulously building sounds boring when compared to a story about just one character. Wow. Guess that just shows how crappy your taste is.



How do you start off a post by bashing a concept of where the story can go, and then saying that the story has to go your way and ending it by bashing people who "want it to go their way?"

How ****ing old are you?

I didnt bash anyone its not my fault oda doesnt want to write the story for your liking.. you sound ignorant asking me how old i am, especially when you just said you werent replying to anymore of my post because of my reading comprehension. Thats real bashing, saying I cant read.

Your just mad because your EXPANSIVE way of the story will never be played out except for in your head and on this forum lmao.

 

[Dannie]

-So apparently looking at better alternatives to make the story more diverse is the same thing as saying that we are not satisfied with the story because it isn't going "our way."

-So apparently having Oda focus more on the different angles of the world for once and have OTHER key characters face off against each other is boring, and not at all better than Luffy fighting the main villains over and over again because you want to see Luffy "kick some ass" like he does every other arc.

-So apparently people are fine with the idea of having Luffy defeat BM THIS ARC(knowing that he isn't ready), but are ready to start getting **** when the idea of other means for BM to be dealt with are mentioned.

Wew lad, I see the Luffy wankers are still at it with the bullshit.

 

[LBeezy]

-So apparently looking at better alternatives to make the story more diverse is the same thing as saying that we are not satisfied with the story because it isn't going "our way."

-So apparently having Oda focus more on the different angles of the world for once and have OTHER key characters face off against each other is boring, and not at all better than Luffy fighting the main villains over and over again because you want to see Luffy "kick some ass" like he does every other arc.

-So apparently people are fine with the idea of having Luffy defeat BM THIS ARC(knowing that he isn't ready), but are ready to start getting **** when the idea of other means for BM to be dealt with are mentioned.

Wew lad, I see the Luffy wankers are still at it with the bullshit.

Nothing you've said has been a "better alternative" for the story though.

Luffy, with the help of other characters in this arc, defeating Big Mom here and now is the best direction the story can go.

Foh with your bullshit.

Luffy and co. are MORE than ready to kick her ass this arc.


Wew lad, I see the Luffy haters are still at it.

:bdpf:

 

[Mystikk]

Nothing you've said has been a "better alternative" for the story though.

Luffy, with the help of other characters in this arc, defeating Big Mom here and now is the best direction the story can go.

Foh with your bullshit.

Luffy and co. are MORE than ready to kick her ass this arc.


Wew lad, I see the Luffy haters are still at it.

:bdpf:

Yea bro they want bigmom to be in the story forever mate. Lmao

We know luffy isnt ready but thats what makes onepiece so exciting.. i cant believe yall would rather luffy run then try to fight just so you can see bigmom interact with other characters.

Wake up!! Bigmom is only important for this arc next month we will have forgotten how luffy kicked her ass and we will be discussing how luffy will defeat kaido.

 

[Love Cook]

Yea bro they want bigmom to be in the story forever mate. Lmao

We know luffy isnt ready but thats what makes onepiece so exciting.. i cant believe yall would rather luffy run then try to fight just so you can see bigmom interact with other characters.

Wake up!! Bigmom is only important for this arc next month we will have forgotten how luffy kicked her ass and we will be discussing how luffy will defeat kaido.

it's amazing to me that you can write this down and not see the problem of this yourself.

You admit Luffy isn't ready, yet you want him to fight. You want him to win that fight and then move on to an even stronger opponent. And repeat the same trick all over again. You're on such a slipping slope if you would do that. That is the terrain of asspulls and friendship power.

And no next month we're not forgotten if he would have defeated Big Mom with bullshit. Oda crafted this story for 20 years and he is not going to flush it down the toilet and put Luffy in fast forward because you're bored with this arc and don't like Big Mom.

Luffy was not able to beat Doflamingo or Cracker without a lot of help. To beat Big Mom who is in a whole other league with help from who exactly ? Sanji and Jimbei are the strongest there. While being on her island with her army around. Wedding guests will attend in her favor. They have no chance.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's incredibly fitting these clowns continue to insult people by saying "You're just whining about how you want the story to go," but reduce their arguments to "You're a hater" if you don't agree with how their story goes. Especially Mystikk, who in other threads attacked people by saying they were morons and children, and is suddenly tight in this thread when the same words are purposefully thrown back in his face. Funny how I said I won't be addressing a particular part of his post because of it being him not understanding my posts, and he responds saying I said I wouldn't be responding to the entire post.

What a joke this Lord Luffy brigade is, at least try like Chopstickchakra is if you're gonna be this blatant a circus act.

Nothing you've said has been a "better alternative" for the story though.

Luffy, with the help of other characters in this arc, defeating Big Mom here and now is the best direction the story can go.

Foh with your bullshit.

Luffy and co. are MORE than ready to kick her ass this arc.


Wew lad, I see the Luffy haters are still at it.

:bdpf:

It's funny how Dannie and I have been able to explain why our way is better, and you and Mystikk have yet to offer up even one way why it's better. At least Chopstickchakra tried, even if he ended up wrong. You two have only said "Luffy beating up everyone is the best way because I said so" all thread and think you've made good posts.

 

[Dannie]

Nothing you've said has been a "better alternative" for the story though.

How is the possibility of two yonkos clashing with each other, which could allow for more opportunity to actually see two yonkos face off for the first time ON panel, and actually have Luffy home his skills and leave the island safely with his crew instead of charging in like a fool like he always does not a better alternative for the story than the MC wrecking havoc on a wedding, and trying to defeat one of the main villains of an arc like always when he could barely defeat one commander?

This mans could barely defeat Doflamingo, which was the arc just before this one, and he could barely manage to defeat Doffy WITH assistance and the major help of Law, and you expect him to be ready to face off against a much stronger opponent just because he says he's going to do it?

Luffy, with the help of other characters in this arc, defeating Big Mom here and now is the best direction the story can go.

And who else on this island does Luffy have by his side that will make any difference? Are we forgetting about the unknown powers of Smoothie? Who is going to deal with her? If Luffy in G4, who was struggling during most of the fight with Cracker could barely defeat someone who is on the same level as Smoothie, who exactly is going to help him face off against that many opponents? Nami? Jimbei? Chopper? Carrot? Sanji? Oh please, Luffy has no one on this island that will make any difference against a Yonko.

You are basically telling me that because Luffy can't defeat her all by himself, that by having multiple people tag along to fight her is a much better and typical route than having them escape off the island, so that other ways of having BM defeated can happen. Okay.

Foh with your bullshit.

You are the one who is spewing bullshit. You want the same thing that happens every other arc to happen again this arc, except this time he will be fighting with multiple people by his side because he is not ready to face her alone. You clearly know this, and that is why you keep saying that he will fight her with assistance, but how in blue hell is this obvious line of storytelling much better than Kaido coming to the island?

Luffy and co. are MORE than ready to kick her ass this arc.

Ohh, you mean his co. that's not on the island? I'm sorry mate but Law and Zoro are not with Luffy so you're gonna have to find some more people who will be helping Luffy.

Wew lad, I see the Luffy haters are still at it.

>Looking at better angles for how Big Mam's defeat can go because it's not Luffy who is defeating her

>Thinks that's "Luffy hating"

Yea bro they want bigmom to be in the story forever mate. Lmao

We know luffy isnt ready but thats what makes onepiece so exciting.. i cant believe yall would rather luffy run then try to fight just so you can see bigmom interact with other characters.

Wake up!! Bigmom is only important for this arc next month we will have forgotten how luffy kicked her ass and we will be discussing how luffy will defeat kaido.

Who said anything about her being in the story forever, and what exactly is wrong with her being in the story a little bit longer?

Why would you want someone who isn't ready to fight an opponent that's stronger than them? You call it "running away" but that is just being smart.

 

[Punk Hazard]

How is the possibility of two yonkos clashing with each other, which could allow for more opportunity to actually see two yonkos face off for the first time ON panel, and actually have Luffy home his skills and leave the island safely with his crew instead of charging in like a fool like he always does not a better alternative for the story than the MC wrecking havoc on a wedding, and trying to defeat one of the main villains of an arc like always when he could barely defeat one commander?

This mans could barely defeat Doflamingo, which was the arc just before this one, and he could barely manage to defeat Doffy WITH assistance and the major help of Law, and you expect him to be ready to face off against a much stronger opponent just because he says he's going to do it?



And who else on this island does Luffy have by his side that will make any difference? Are we forgetting about the unknown powers of Smoothie? Who is going to deal with her? If Luffy in G4, who was struggling during most of the fight with Cracker could barely defeat someone who is on the same level as Smoothie, who exactly is going to help him face off against that many opponents? Nami? Jimbei? Chopper? Carrot? Sanji? Oh please, Luffy has no one on this island that will make any difference against a Yonko.

You are basically telling me that because Luffy can't defeat her all by himself, that by having multiple people tag along to fight her is a much better and typical route than having them escape off the island, so that other ways of having BM defeated can happen. Okay.


You are the one who is spewing bullshit. You want the same thing that happens every other arc to happen again this arc, except this time he will be fighting with multiple people by his side because he is not ready to face her alone. You clearly know this, and that is why you keep saying that he will fight her with assistance, but how in blue hell is this obvious line of storytelling much better than Kaido coming to the island?


Ohh, you mean his co. that's not on the island? I'm sorry mate but Law and Zoro are not with Luffy so you're gonna have to find some more people who will be helping Luffy.


>Looking at better angles for how Big Mam's defeat can go because it's not Luffy who is defeating her

>Thinks that's "Luffy hating"




Who said anything about her being in the story forever, and what exactly is wrong with her being in the story a little bit longer?

Why would you want someone who isn't ready to fight an opponent that's stronger than them? You call it "running away" but that is just being smart.

Their arguments literally begin and end with "Because I want to see Luffy do it." They have nothing more to add. It's kinda fitting that such a narrow ability to argue their points accompany such a narrow ability to comprehend the manga.

 

[Dannie]

^also someone made an interesting post from OJ:

Luffy hasn't seen WCI and it's victims at their worst yet, so there's still no reason for Luffy to claim that he'll beat Big Mom.
Wait till the wedding gets ruined, that'll show Big Mom's true nature, then we'll see what Luffy has to say.

Luffy never claimed to beat both Enel and Doflamingo until real bad shit started happening.
If Luffy doesn't declare his final intentions when everything goes to hell, then he's not going for Big Mom's head.

This is not about a simple yonko vs. Luffy fighting with their full forces anymore.
Oda's been painfully showing us things that's been happening behind Big Mom's back, bad things are happening in the heart of Big Mom's territory, which she's not aware of. Every possible way of endangering Big Mom just went into play here, it basically being slapped into our faces. That's how obvious it is.

Now unless Big Mom pulls a straight 180 godlike move, then the possibility of her going down is huge.

Maybe this will not even be a full on fight against BM and Luffy, but a test to see where Luffy stands regarding something entirely different. Maybe he will push her mentally and then something BIG will happen on the island that will cause this supposed "battle" to be interrupted.

 

[Punk Hazard]

^also someone made an interesting post from OJ:





Maybe this will not even be a full on fight against BM and Luffy, but a test to see where Luffy stands regarding something entirely different. Maybe he will push her mentally and then something BIG will happen on the island that will cause this supposed "battle" to be interrupted.

I'm positive Oda is gonna have Big Mom explode and flip the **** out. It's wayyyy too obvious how much has been going wrong, when has Oda ever done this before?