[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 856 Discussion and 857 Predictions

[chopstickchakra]

Brook with that advantage only managed to land a boo-boo on Promotheus and none of the other Homies even had marks on them.

Brook was clearly affecting the other Homies since BM needed to send Zeus and Prometheus and her hat at him though. That alone would eliminate a big chunk of them from Luffy's attention thus saving his stamina.
I don't recall the fight well enough to go into detail without refreshing myself on it and I don't have that time right now.

Amande also took the Vivre Card from Nami, which in all likelihood wouldn't affect Big Mom's Big 3 Homies anyways. Brook could straight up exorcise the Homies while the Vivre Card just prevented them from attacking, it's doubtful that card could affect the special Homies anyways.

I agree the vivre card probably wouldn't effect the big 3 since they come directly from BM(I wonder if she'll be able to "revive" 3 times in a sense where she can take the soul back from Prom., Zeus and the hat?) I didn't remember Nami losing that, I wonder if it'll come back at all or if it's part is done, probably done I would guess.

We have no idea what the full scope of Big Mom's powers are. That technique might not work on Luffy, but do we know that none of her powers will?

Unless she has some serious strength tucked away we can safely say Luffy passes her in power, so if her biggest(strongest) known attack has little to no effect then the only thing I could see helping her win is a power unknown to us as of yet. This may end up just another case of good DF match ups for Luffy, if BM's DF becomes ineffective against him we could have another Enel situation where his opponents main strength comes from their DF.

 

[ToshiZO]

Here's another good avi.

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[LBeezy]

Brook was clearly affecting the other Homies since BM needed to send Zeus and Prometheus and her hat at him though. That alone would eliminate a big chunk of them from Luffy's attention thus saving his stamina.
I don't recall the fight well enough to go into detail without refreshing myself on it and I don't have that time right now.



I agree the vivre card probably wouldn't effect the big 3 since they come directly from BM(I wonder if she'll be able to "revive" 3 times in a sense where she can take the soul back from Prom., Zeus and the hat?) I didn't remember Nami losing that, I wonder if it'll come back at all or if it's part is done, probably done I would guess.



Unless she has some serious strength tucked away we can safely say Luffy passes her in power, so if her biggest(strongest) known attack has little to no effect then the only thing I could see helping her win is a power unknown to us as of yet. This may end up just another case of good DF match ups for Luffy, if BM's DF becomes ineffective against him we could have another Enel situation where his opponents main strength comes from their DF.

My thoughts exactly..

And yeah the vivre card was taken from Nami, before her and Luffy were put into the book prison.


I'm honestly thinking that there is a reason why Oda put that whole "don't show fear" thing in there when BM was about to kill her son..

Brook has a HUGE upper hand against a lot of the fodder.. which is what some people aren't understanding.. the "numbers" of fighters BM has isn't going to amount to shit.. especially with Brook and the amount of Germa 66.. fodder vs fodder.. it's going to be all about the top tiers..

Sanji's family can take out a sweet commander.

Jinbei with help maybe? can take out a sweet commander..

Ain't that it??

Luffy overpowers Big Mom in every department and bam WCI is over.. on to the next arc.

 

[Itachi Minato]

My thoughts exactly..

And yeah the vivre card was taken from Nami, before her and Luffy were put into the book prison.


I'm honestly thinking that there is a reason why Oda put that whole "don't show fear" thing in there when BM was about to kill her son..

Brook has a HUGE upper hand against a lot of the fodder.. which is what some people aren't understanding.. the "numbers" of fighters BM has isn't going to amount to shit.. especially with Brook and the amount of Germa 66.. fodder vs fodder.. it's going to be all about the top tiers..

Sanji's family can take out a sweet commander.

Jinbei with help maybe? can take out a sweet commander..

Ain't that it??

Luffy overpowers Big Mom in every department and bam WCI is over.. on to the next arc.

Wait just to be clear. You think Luffy can take out BM by himself?

 

[LBeezy]

Wait just to be clear. You think Luffy can take out BM by himself?

No...?..

 

[Itachi Minato]

No...?..

Then when you said Luffy overpowers BM in every department makes no sense. If that was the case he could beat her alone.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Then when you said Luffy overpowers BM in every department makes no sense. If that was the case he could beat her alone.

Luffy wouldn't be able to take out BM(as a Yonkou) on his own because there's just too much for him to deal with, he'll need help to reach her, but in a 1 on 1 cage match style fight if her DF can't affect Luffy then it becomes much more plausible that he could beat her since we've seen a level of her physical strength already.

She may have greater physical strength then was shown at her rampage but if not she doesn't seem nearly physically strong enough to beat Luffy(in a solely 1v1 fight if her DF doesn't effect him like everyone else) I'm assuming that's what he was going towards.

Plus many have pointed out a captains strength isn't what grants the Yonkou title but overall crew power, influence and fear so a Yonkou captain could be beat 1v1 by another pirate who's crew is below the Yonkous. Look at Mihawk for instance, a lot of people say Mihawk would beat Shanks in a 1v1 fight but that doesn't mean Mihawk would be able to knock off Shanks and the RH Pirates on his own.

 

[LBeezy]

Then when you said Luffy overpowers BM in every department makes no sense. If that was the case he could beat her alone.

Get schooled mane..

Luffy wouldn't be able to take out BM(as a Yonkou) on his own because there's just too much for him to deal with, he'll need help to reach her, but in a 1 on 1 cage match style fight if her DF can't affect Luffy then it becomes much more plausible that he could beat her since we've seen a level of her physical strength already.

She may have greater physical strength then was shown at her rampage but if not she doesn't seem nearly physically strong enough to beat Luffy(in a solely 1v1 fight if her DF doesn't effect him like everyone else) I'm assuming that's what he was going towards.

This.

This. All day.


+rep when it let's me give it again..

 

[Love Cook]

Luffy wouldn't be able to take out BM(as a Yonkou) on his own because there's just too much for him to deal with, he'll need help to reach her, but in a 1 on 1 cage match style fight if her DF can't affect Luffy then it becomes much more plausible that he could beat her since we've seen a level of her physical strength already.

She may have greater physical strength then was shown at her rampage but if not she doesn't seem nearly physically strong enough to beat Luffy(in a solely 1v1 fight if her DF doesn't effect him like everyone else) I'm assuming that's what he was going towards.

Plus many have pointed out a captains strength isn't what grants the Yonkou title but overall crew power, influence and fear so a Yonkou captain could be beat 1v1 by another pirate who's crew is below the Yonkous. Look at Mihawk for instance, a lot of people say Mihawk would beat Shanks in a 1v1 fight but that doesn't mean Mihawk would be able to knock off Shanks and the RH Pirates on his own.

You have no clue on what her powers are and if and how they would affect Luffy. That is all speculation. Besides a fight against Big Mom is never a 1 vs 1. She comes with 3 homies that share her soul. So it at least is a 4 vs 1.

If Luffy and a band of misfits can topple a yonkou with 7 people, Big Mom wouldn't be a yonkou for this long.

 

[Itachi Minato]

Luffy wouldn't be able to take out BM(as a Yonkou) on his own because there's just too much for him to deal with, he'll need help to reach her, but in a 1 on 1 cage match style fight if her DF can't affect Luffy then it becomes much more plausible that he could beat her since we've seen a level of her physical strength already.

She may have greater physical strength then was shown at her rampage but if not she doesn't seem nearly physically strong enough to beat Luffy(in a solely 1v1 fight if her DF doesn't effect him like everyone else) I'm assuming that's what he was going towards.

Plus many have pointed out a captains strength isn't what grants the Yonkou title but overall crew power, influence and fear so a Yonkou captain could be beat 1v1 by another pirate who's crew is below the Yonkous. Look at Mihawk for instance, a lot of people say Mihawk would beat Shanks in a 1v1 fight but that doesn't mean Mihawk would be able to knock off Shanks and the RH Pirates on his own.

Get schooled mane..






This.

This. All day.


+rep when it let's me give it again..

So basically you do think Luffy can beat BM by himself. I didn't get schooled at all lol. All chopstick said was Luffy can beat BM by himself if her devil fruit doesn't effect him since he's shown more physical than she showed in her rampage. Two huge ****ing assumptions right there. And yes a captains strength doesn't make them a yonko. But if a subordinate of that captain was barely defeated with help it would not make much sense for the captain to be soloed. Not that having more physical strength means he will win. He had more physical strength then doffy still needed massive help to beat him.

 

[Punk Hazard]

>Maybe knows how one of Big Mom's techniques works
>"LUFFY MIGHT BE IMMUNE TO HER ENTIRE FRUIT, HE WINS"

Good work, you guys.

So basically you do think Luffy can beat BM by himself. I didn't get schooled at all lol. All chopstick said was Luffy can beat BM by himself if her devil fruit doesn't effect him since he's shown more physical than she showed in her rampage. Two huge ****ing assumptions right there. And yes a captains strength doesn't make them a yonko. But if a subordinate of that captain was barely defeated with help it would not make much sense for the captain to be soloed. Not that having more physical strength means he will win. He had more physical strength then doffy still needed massive help to beat him.

LBeezy is a lost cause on these concepts.

 

[chopstickchakra]

You have no clue on what her powers are and if and how they would affect Luffy. That is all speculation. Besides a fight against Big Mom is never a 1 vs 1. She comes with 3 homies that share her soul. So it at least is a 4 vs 1.

If Luffy and a band of misfits can topple a yonkou with 7 people, Big Mom wouldn't be a yonkou for this long.

So basically you do think Luffy can beat BM by himself. I didn't get schooled at all lol. All chopstick said was Luffy can beat BM by himself if her devil fruit doesn't effect him since he's shown more physical than she showed in her rampage. Two huge ****ing assumptions right there. And yes a captains strength doesn't make them a yonko. But if a subordinate of that captain was barely defeated with help it would not make much sense for the captain to be soloed. Not that having more physical strength means he will win. He had more physical strength then doffy still needed massive help to beat him.

>Maybe knows how one of Big Mom's techniques works
>"LUFFY MIGHT BE IMMUNE TO HER ENTIRE FRUIT, HE WINS"

Good work, you guys.

Were'nt you the one just talking about not basing opinions on possibilities? The only way we've seen her fruit work was mentioned to be connected to fear. We can't base opinions on what might happen, right? Or does that not apply now because it's you doing it? What BM might have is irrelevant, right? What is relevant is what we've seen and know


LBeezy is a lost cause on these concepts.

Weren't you the one just talking about not basing opinions on possibilities? The only way we've seen her fruit work was mentioned to be connected to fear. We can't base opinions on what might happen, right? Or does that not apply now because it's you doing it? What BM might have is irrelevant, right? What is relevant is what we've seen and know

I love how you guys feel the need to point out it's an assumption(as if I hadn't pointed that out already), you sound like the people that pop in WWF comments to say wrestling is fake. Well no shit.

@Itachi nothing really shows Luffy was physically stronger than Doffy excluding G4 which is only a temporary scenario anyway. Doffy was from what I saw equal to Luffy or slightly above in most stats. The showing we got of BM's physical strength doesn't imply that to me.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Weren't you the one just talking about not basing opinions on possibilities? The only way we've seen her fruit work was mentioned to be connected to fear. We can't base opinions on what might happen, right? Or does that not apply now because it's you doing it? What BM might have is irrelevant, right? What is relevant is what we've seen and know

Not assuming that one technique works the same as every other technique in a diverse fruit is not the same as making assumptions. The fact that I have to say that to any other human being makes me extremely sad.

How valid does it sound for me to say that the only way Big Mom can put a soul in an object is for that object to be scared of her? Or for me to say that the soul needs to be scared of Big Mom to be put in an object, because that one technique worked based on fear?

I love how you guys feel the need to point out it's an assumption(as if I hadn't pointed that out already), you sound like the people that pop in WWF comments to say wrestling is fake. Well no shit.

The difference is you think it's okay to make that assumption, while we are pointing out that it's not.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Not assuming that one technique works the same as every other technique in a diverse fruit is not the same as making assumptions. The fact that I have to say that to any other human being makes me extremely sad.

How valid does it sound for me to say that the only way Big Mom can put a soul in an object is for that object to be scared of her? Or for me to say that the soul needs to be scared of Big Mom to be put in an object, because that one technique worked based on fear?



The difference is you think it's okay to make that assumption, while we are pointing out that it's not.

It's actually the stealing of a soul that relied on fear. As I said until we see more we have to gauge off of what we know. We don't know what other ways her DF fruit works which is why I initially said unless she has some un-shown trick up her sleeve it becomes more plausible that Luffy could beat her. Not every fruit has that much depth to it, how much could viola do with hers like 3-4 things? What more could there really be for her fruit with what we've seen, she can take souls and she can place them?

The difference is I'm going off of what she's shown you're assuming she has more to show. That's your assumption not that other moves she may have would work the same, you're assuming she even has more techniques which we don't know that's what I was referring to when I brought up you saying "need current manga facts not what manga facts may show up later during another showing"

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's actually the stealing of a soul that relied on fear.

Exactly. Stealing the soul relies on fear. That does not mean Luffy has an inherent advantage against Big Mom's arsenal, which is what you have been trying to say. He MAYBE has an advantage against ONE technique. That is not enough to assume that Luffy is going to have a major advantage against Big Mom. The rest of your post is just backpeddling.

The difference is I'm going off of what she's shown you're assuming she has more to show.

Yes, I assume that Big Mom has more to show. But you don't see me making claims about how Luffy will fare against her fruit as part of my argument. That's the difference between us.

That's your assumption not that other moves she may have would work the same, you're assuming she even has more techniques which we don't know that's what I was referring to when I brought up you saying "need current manga facts not what manga facts may show up later during another showing"

But...I haven't made any claims based off of that assumption...you're making your assumption support to your argument. I am not.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Exactly. Stealing the soul relies on fear. That does not mean Luffy has an inherent advantage against Big Mom's arsenal, which is what you have been trying to say. He MAYBE has an advantage against ONE technique. That is not enough to assume that Luffy is going to have a major advantage against Big Mom. The rest of your post is just backpeddling.

The one and only technique we know as fact she has, these "other" techniques are just your creation until she shows anything beyond taking and placing souls. And yes Luffy's non fear of her does give him an inate advantage as she won't be able to take years off his life via his soul and if she can't take his soul than she can't use it to make a Homie Luffy like Moriah made a Zombie Luffy.

Yes, I assume that Big Mom has more to show. But you don't see me making claims about how Luffy will fare against her fruit as part of my argument. That's the difference between us.

That is the difference. You're talking on pure assumption, I'm basing my assumption that the one method of use her DF has shown will be ineffective against a character who doesn't show fear because of a quote from within the manga that correlates her soul stealing ability with a persons fear.

But...I haven't made any claims based off of that assumption...you're making your assumption support to your argument. I am not.

You don't have to make calims based on the assumption to be making an assumption. Your assumption in unfounded there's nothing to suggest she has more techs related to her DF other than you would like her to have more and feel she should. My assumptive claim has manga precedent. Until she shows another form of use for her DF, her biggest attribute from it is unlikely to affect Luffy based on that quote from the manga.

 

[Punk Hazard]

And yes Luffy's non fear of her does give him an inate advantage as she won't be able to take years off his life via his soul and if she can't take his soul than she can't use it to make a Homie Luffy like Moriah made a Zombie Luffy.

And...this is the only way she can possibly fight Luffy with her fruit?

That is the difference. You're talking on pure assumption

For one thing, my assumption is based on the facts given to use by Big Mom's other usages, which don't need fear to operate. That dismisses the notion that Big Mom's fruit has to revolve around fear.

I'm basing my assumption that the one method of use her DF has shown will be ineffective against a character who doesn't show fear because of a quote from within the manga that correlates her soul stealing ability with a persons fear.

Except this isn't your claim. Your claim is that this one technique's failure turns the tides of the battle when nothing supports that.

You don't have to make calims based on the assumption to be making an assumption. Your assumption in unfounded there's nothing to suggest she has more techs related to her DF other than you would like her to have more and feel she should.

Okay for one, are you saying that my claim that Big Mom has usages unrelated to fear is unfounded? I guess putting souls in things needs fear then.

Secondly, I am making no claims one way or another about how Luffy will fare against her fruit because fear has been proven to not be the only factor in using her fruit. You are saying that Luffy's PROBABLE immunity to one technique is enough to say the battle can be turned in Luffy's favor, which is a reach that would put Luffy's fruit to shame.

My assumptive claim has manga precedent. Until she shows another form of use for her DF, her biggest attribute from it is unlikely to affect Luffy based on that quote from the manga.

I'm done entertaining this nonsense after this. The claim you have provided that is ridiculous is not that Luffy might be immune to that technique, but that his immunity to that one technique will play a big role in making or breaking this battle for him.

 

[LBeezy]

You have no clue on what her powers are and if and how they would affect Luffy. That is all speculation. Besides a fight against Big Mom is never a 1 vs 1. She comes with 3 homies that share her soul. So it at least is a 4 vs 1.

If Luffy and a band of misfits can topple a yonkou with 7 people, Big Mom wouldn't be a yonkou for this long.

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?

So basically you do think Luffy can beat BM by himself. I didn't get schooled at all lol. All chopstick said was Luffy can beat BM by himself if her devil fruit doesn't effect him since he's shown more physical than she showed in her rampage. Two huge ****ing assumptions right there. And yes a captains strength doesn't make them a yonko. But if a subordinate of that captain was barely defeated with help it would not make much sense for the captain to be soloed. Not that having more physical strength means he will win. He had more physical strength then doffy still needed massive help to beat him.

Same question.

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?

>Maybe knows how one of Big Mom's techniques works
>"LUFFY MIGHT BE IMMUNE TO HER ENTIRE FRUIT, HE WINS"

Good work, you guys.



LBeezy is a lost cause on these concepts.

Same question.

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?

Not assuming that one technique works the same as every other technique in a diverse fruit is not the same as making assumptions. The fact that I have to say that to any other human being makes me extremely sad.

How valid does it sound for me to say that the only way Big Mom can put a soul in an object is for that object to be scared of her? Or for me to say that the soul needs to be scared of Big Mom to be put in an object, because that one technique worked based on fear?

What are you even saying right now?

How is an inanimate object supposed to feel fear or other emotions? Lol

The difference is you think it's okay to make that assumption, while we are pointing out that it's not.

Yes it is actually. It's perfectly fine. Especially when we have actual manga proof of someone saying what we're going off of. Oda literally had a character say what we're talking about.. do you honestly think Oda wrote that for NOOOO reason at all??

Shit? Conquerors haki could even be a huge natural enemy for her DF ability.. we don't know yet.. obviously.. but the fact that we're theorizing and thinking of possible outcomes based off of information we've actually received in the manga, makes sense.

It doesn't make sense, however, for you guys to act like Big Mom is anything special in a 1v1 fight. Especially when YOU yourself have said that the Pirate King doesn't have to be strong or beat anyone in a fight to earn the title.. especially whenever YOU yourself are debating Mihawk > Shanks, and you downplay Shanks' Yonko status to fit your argument.
Especially when WE as readers have seen Buggy and Usopp and all the titles they've received.. lol

Like bruh, Buggy and Usopp's existence alone is enough to support the idea that Big Mom's Yonko status doesn't have to be based on her 1v1 fighting capabilities..

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?




Same question.

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?




Same question.

Why are we not allowed to make predictions in a discussion/prediction thread?

Again, I am not disputing that Luffy might be immune to that technique. I am disputing the notion that that one MAYBE immunity is going to play a big role in making or breaking this fight.

What are you even saying right now?

How is an inanimate object supposed to feel fear or other emotions? Lol

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Yes it is actually. It's perfectly fine. Especially when we have actual manga proof of someone saying what we're going off of. Oda literally had a character say what we're talking about.. do you honestly think Oda wrote that for NOOOO reason at all??

*insert first part of my post here*

Shit? Conquerors haki could even be a huge natural enemy for her DF ability.. we don't know yet.. obviously.. but the fact that we're theorizing and thinking of possible outcomes based off of information we've actually received in the manga, makes sense.

*insert first part of my post here*

It doesn't make sense, however, for you guys to act like Big Mom is anything special in a 1v1 fight. Especially when YOU yourself have said that the Pirate King doesn't have to be strong or beat anyone in a fight to earn the title.. especially whenever YOU yourself are debating Mihawk > Shanks, and you downplay Shanks' Yonko status to fit your argument.

*insert first part of my post here*

 

[chopstickchakra]

And...this is the only way she can possibly fight Luffy with her fruit?

As of now, yes anything else is speculative. You can grant her all the speculative powers you'd like I have no qualms about that, just remember it next time you give someone shit for talking hypothetically.

For one thing, my assumption is based on the facts given to use by Big Mom's other usages, which don't need fear to operate. That dismisses the notion that Big Mom's fruit has to revolve around fear.

What other uses? placing a soul? That's not gonna help her offensively if she can't take it to begin with. I never said her fruit revolves around fear, her only known offensive tech with it is though. That's irrefutable(unless there's a tech I can't recall right now)

Except this isn't your claim. Your claim is that this one technique's failure turns the tides of the battle when nothing supports that.

It being her only known offensive tech with her DF though would turn the tide if it ends up being ineffective because we've seen her power level during a rampage, which in most media is someone's unrestricted strength, and that level of physical abilities isn't gonna be able to damage Luffy. That said I'm expecting she has a great level of durability based on her size.

Okay for one, are you saying that my claim that Big Mom has usages unrelated to fear is unfounded? I guess putting souls in things needs fear then.
Secondly, I am making no claims one way or another about how Luffy will fare against her fruit because fear has been proven to not be the only factor in using her fruit. You are saying that Luffy's PROBABLE immunity to one technique is enough to say the battle can be turned in Luffy's favor, which is a reach that would put Luffy's fruit to shame.

Not what I said at all, I said you're claiming BM has more techs then we've seen her use. I'm saying you're doing what you jump on others for, attributing possible/likely pieces to a person who has yet to show them. You giving BM other skills to fight Luffy with, despite not seeing any, is the same as when we were discussing Kuma's speed, we're both using what we see as likely scenarios to judge what the person could or should be able to do.

I'm done entertaining this nonsense after this. The claim you have provided that is ridiculous is not that Luffy might be immune to that technique, but that his immunity to that one technique will play a big role in making or breaking this battle for him.

It's probably for the best since the only thing you've had to say to it was, "well placing souls doesn't take fear"(not offensive irrelevant in a vs discussion) and "She may have other techniques to fight with"

I am disputing the notion that that one MAYBE immunity is going to play a big role in making or breaking this fight.

You may be disputing it but you're not offering any method BM can fight back if that tech proves ineffective. We have no other means of fighting for her to form an opinion from besides her physical strength so if she can't take his soul do you think her physical strength is enough to beat Luffy. If not then what could she do to win, going of current knowledge which only has her with one offensive DF ability.