epicscreator said:
You're right. He did work hard. My problem, though, has to do with that it is predetermined by his destiny for him to work hard and gain friends and allies and all that, which is something he fought against -- destiny, I mean -- in part 1 and this is most obviously showcased in his fight against Neji. However, with the revelation that he was the child of prophecy (of which has existed before he was even born) it is hypocritical and dishonest of Kishimoto to have presented Naruto the way he was in part 1 - which was a kid who defied all odds and destiny and paved his way into the world without some kind of outer force helping him. It puts Naruto in a sort of paradox. He's gotten as far as he has because of hard work, yes, but his hard work is because of destiny. He is literally a slave to destiny.
Ah. Glad you brought up this. This seems like a giant misconception regarding the destiny thing with Neji and Naruto. He didn't fight against destiny, he fought against the kind he doesn't like that is being forced upon him and is against what he desires, the same as Neji's destiny. It would seem kinda stupid for someone to reject something good that is bestowed upon him.
Naruto: ''
If you don't like your destiny, don't accept it. Instead, have the courage to change it the way you want it to be!''
So again Naruto didn't have a problem with destiny as a whole. It was because he was told to accept his destiny as a drop out and a failure by Neji and others who doubted him that he went against it, by not accepting the bad things to come for him, because they are
destiny.
He achieved and reached his position in the first place because of hard work. But the message was never that hard work can achieve anything, as evident by Lee losing to Garra despite all his impressive hard work, and Naruto losing to Sasuke despite his hard work to reach the level where he can call himself his equal. This is also another misconception I've noticed, the theme was not
hard work can beat talent and defy everything, it was
if hard work really can beat talent and defy odds all the time.
I think it would be quite naive even for a Shounen manga, to expect Naruto to do something that no other man has done before him in his world, with simple hard work and nothing else or help from anything else. Changing the Ninja world and stopping the hate cycle is a feat that can't be achieved solely by naive words and hard work alone. If it was people like Madara and Obito wouldn't have existed in that manner.
Agreed. I just wish it wasn't because it was his destiny. Or alternatively, I just wished Kishi would of written it differently from the very beginning, showing that Naruto was destined from the start to change the world and be a hard worker, instead of implying he'd change things by fighting against fate to do it - which turned out to be a lie. And that pisses me off.
But It was implied as such, that Naruto is destined for a great feat. What Naruto fought against was the fate of him being just a looser and just a demon child.
Destiny was too loosely defined in the first place. It seemed people are under the impression that destiny and hard work are complete opposite things and can't coexist at once, but couldn't it be said that it was Naruto's destiny to become strong through hard work?
Neji simply thought he could read the future, Naruto proved to him that he couldn't by exceeding his expectations, and hence Naruto showed that Neji's perception of Naruto's destiny was false. I guess one could argue that Naruto "defying destiny" was simply him exceeding Neji's expectations, which doesn't conflict with him being the child of the prophecy in any way whatsoever.
And Asuhra being described as hard worker, is more proof of Naruto's hard work, not the opposite
