NOTICE: Naruto RP - Next Generation

[ZK]

I think it’s very important that we really read what people have to say in this thread, because, honestly, this could be a crossroad for NB in my opinion. I think a lot of the changes that have been made to the RP these last few years have been positive, but many of them have also been radical and wide-ranging, including WSE. I think it’s great that new members will be able to join, but I don’t think that warrants many of the changes that you are listing, LoK. We have successfully created a much more streamlined system where abilities can be achieved with missions and battles. We’ve minimized wasteful training sessions, cut biography tests and generally removed bottlenecks that used to clutter up the daily workings of the RP. That’s great! But we should be very careful about the changes we choose to implement, and why we do so. I have tried to respond to all the things I find interesting, and to explain in concrete details what I imagine to be the solution.

First of all, I think damage reforms are good. They should be made simple and workable. I think we should also consider what implications, of any, they would have on techniques that clash with chakra instead of damage. I wholeheartedly support a simple system of 60 versus 80 gives 20 coming the other way. It’s just logical and intuitive to me. If we choose to keep our current system I would be a little disappointed, but so long as we codify and write it down, as I will elaborate on below, I will be satisfied.

All rules should be codified: for the sake of both new members joining the RP and our old I think we really need to start putting everything to writing. Our way of calculating jutsu clashes, for example. We are talking about damage reforms, and I think that’s a good thing, but we don’t even have the current ones in writing on the site. We should have. By extension I think we should start putting ‘rules’ resulting from fight checks by Mods to writing. If a check has implications for a technique or ability we should put that in a thread. It’s already written in the check, after all; it simply needs to be listed in a comprehensive archive. It doesn’t even have to be organized at first; we can work on that over time. People can just ctrl + f the things they want to find at first. The most important thing is to get everything listed neatly and cohesively. Frankly, all of the rules in the RP Updates thread, i.e. most of the posts in the thread, should really be moved into the rules thread, or new rules threads should be created for them. So many things are listed there, some of them now defunct, and we need to make sure all of those rules are easy to find and separated from the rules that are no longer in effect. Preferably, in the long term, I think an index should be created for all rules threads, perhaps in the style of WSE.
Someone mentioned the timeframe, and although I don’t agree with their suggestion (I think our current rules are fine) I think the rules we have should, again, be written down somewhere where they are easily found.

Custom reevaluations could potentially be good, I believe, but it should all be done in one or more threads where people can be directed after a fight check/mod check, or of their own volition, and the customs should still be usable while they are pending. That way no one loses anything; the thread can be backed up with no drawbacks. Mods will then, by order of urgency, talk about the custom and what, if anything, should be changed, engaging the creator in dialogue and then make the changes as needed. It will be a slow process, but a lot simpler and lot less intrusive. In this way customs that require changes can be changed in an orderly fashion as problems with them arise, instead of in bulk.

We should generally be very careful about biting off more than we can chew. As has been mentioned we are not breezing through customs threads and fight checks. Things are left pending. It’s what happens, but it also means that we should not be spending manpower on things just for the sake of it.

Specialty edits I am honestly neutral about. Do I think it’d be nice to have an increasing number of more variable specialties? Sure! That’s something we can slowly add over time, and people can then choose to sample them if they want to as they update their biographies. That seems like a simple, easily achievable thing. If we work within the current system you would simply have to add a few lines for each new specialty. Easy peasey.

To piggyback off 2, we don't need any kind of updated stat system. The chakra, health, speed, and damage system as is works well enough.

A suggestion I want to add is that no facet of the RP should depend on one person. Having an RP foreman for final say purposes during discussions is handy, but no part of the RP should be overseen by just one person. Whether it be Sage Missions, permissions for certain fields, checking of certain custom fields, having one person overseeing it just leads to periods where people are dicked over because they'll have periods where they're busy, lazy, or lazy-but-will-call-it-busy. It's an issue that's been in the RP from training to checking to permissions to tests, and never properly addressed. I'm currently dealing with this with you yet again after dealing with it far too many times with other moderators. It's quite possibly been the worst goddamn part about the RP for years now. Instead, have these things overseen by groups of people who discuss things like what missions people will have, who should get permissions for things that were previously RP foreman permission, and have multiple people able to check every custom field, including Medninjutsu, CEs/CEJs, and CCs/CCJs. I know some of these have multiple people, but they clearly need more. Even two people isn't enough for some of these.

And before it's said, I'm aware that fields with multiple people overseeing it still gets backed up. However, the fact that multiple people covering an aspect of the RP still has periods where it's backed up is just all the more reason no facet should be overseen by just one person.

I have to say I agree completely with Riker here. Organizationally I think we work very inefficiently. There needs to be more delegation of decision-making powers. More people need to be involved and more people need to be able to make decisions. Having one person being the final say on so many things is simply not a good way of working, especially when we’re talking about volunteer work that obviously comes after real life. I agree with the idea of groups discussing and being able to make decisions on these things. That way, when one or more link fails the group carries on. And yes, we need more people checking customs. There are some staff members who have been offering to help with that and I can only say the more the better. Honestly, in my opinion, this goes hand in hand with having things being codified. Because we rely on discord chats things get buried; assignments, if they are even shared with other staff, are forgotten or left to one person. We should, again, have one thread for staff where assignments (except routine custom checks, for example, which are ‘continual’ assignments that always needs doing) that are not taken care of immediately should be posted in simple bullet points and deleted when done. We need to make EFFECTIVE use of the VOLUNTEER manpower we have, and that means making it as easy as possible to find an assignment to do, and then do it.

I also agree with Riker’s suggestion to simply and clean up the restrictions to some abilities. Let’s remove the small stuff and just let people choose the abilities they want and buy them with Kumi. I don’t think it should work within the point system you list, LoK, however, which brings me to my final point: I really, really really agree with Drackos point about organizational change fatigue. We need to take care of our core of members who have been here for years and endured a lot of sudden – but still positive I hope – changes. We’ve been working on a lot of big projects that have changed many fundamental things about the RP. Let us not go overboard! Except for the things I’ve listed here I really do not agree with most of these suggestions. The point system in any form… and I even made one in ye olden days. We have a system that work. I don’t think we need more stats either. We have stats for chakra, health, speed, tracking, as you all mention. Could handseals maybe be added to that list? In the long term? Sure, but I honestly feel like it’s a thing that works fine as it is. We have our handseal specializations already and I don’t think there are that many issues popping up about handseal speed. I don’t like the Ninja Paths either; one of the things that drew me to NB was that you could have all the basic elements and just keep building on that foundation. I want to keep that as it is. I’d hate to have canon biographies removed or restricted, although I am not at all opposed to opening up custom biographies for more exotic ability combinations and the like.

 

[Priest]

This is simply a retirement plan for many.

My Suggestion

Create a new forum for a new generation RP. Implement all this and anyone willing to join will know they starting all over. Assign moderators for the thing and I'm quite sure it'll go smoothly while not affecting the old RP. LOT worked well enough even though it's all in Konoha Town.

The frequent change is quite enough. If it's a minor change, good. A major change like this ain't the best for those who've been rping for a long time and have built quite a lot only to start all over.

 

[Geezus]

Before we even talk about completely revamping the entire system yet again. Why not look to redefine current system a bit more than it already is. Creating a definitive guide to the RP and introducing concepts understandable by old and new members alike. First off, we need to make sure every ability and canon technique is viable with the system. There's always been this meta surrounding the high tier abilities, and not enough focus on the concepts we were first introduced to in the series. Hiden Ability Clans such as Nara and Inuzuka namely have been left untouched for years. Which makes their usage left among only a couple members who have invested time into customs in an effort to try and make the abilities more viable. The RP stat change was unwelcoming but, it was actually a smart move. The removal of needing Sensei to teach the basic abilities was also welcoming as well and has been something I've pushed for for a long time and nice to see it implemented. Rules and RP updates need to be clearly implemented as right now, finding all the information is a nightmare considering things change constantly around here. Some more consistence around these would surely be greatly appreciated by all.

3 Ninja Paths system

I find this idea kinda redundant and limiting. With the inclusion of the new specialty updates, the system already seems to be geared towards this aspect. My thoughts would be like others have said in this thread and actually update wordings and concepts while expanding upon the ideas. It's nice to think about things in a way that was akin to the Part 1 Naruto era where ninja only exhibited usage of a couple of elements, but if you think about it, more and more ninja were shown to be capable of using more than a couple elements as the series progressed. The RP's worked for so long because no one is limited in the choices they can make, but can still gear themselves towards a specific playstyle. It allows everyone to be creative and robust in the way they RP. It's the reason why this RP has worked for so long and why there are still members Rping 10+ years later.

What this would need to come down to however is a overhaul of the canon techniques and their respective abilities. There are some abilities that haven't been touched since they were introduced in the RP and all the focus in my opinion has all been geared towards the higher tier abilities out there, which leaves things such as Nara and Inuzuka clans unusable in the current RP.

Point System

We already have the Kumi system in place, which has been tried time and time again and finally there's been a breakthrough on the effectiveness of how it works. Rather then scrapping the idea for a point system, why not make things more accessible by lowering the kumi values of things. Because honestly, something that's supposed to be a game has indeed become a chore. My idea is to not only lower the values of some abilities to make them more accessible, but expand the number of ways kumi could be gained. For example, let's say I'm RPing in the NW, on a mission maybe every post of that active mission could accumulate bonus Kumi to be rewarded at the end of the mission, let's call it an incentive to be active in the RP. Of course this could be capped based on the rank of the mission and at the discretion of the ANBU who checks the mission so as to ensure there is meaningful RP taking place and people not just shitposting their way to getting Kumi. Ranking up could be grounds for additional kumi as well, which would also help with RPing and would help members reacquire old abilities they once had prior to the ranking revamp. As of now the only way to gain kumi is successfully completing a mission, winning an official battle in BA, or selling off customs. It's makes it hard to gain the abilities you want and becomes more laborious then fun in the long run.

Damage System Revamp

Long overdue. Jutsu clashes need to have a set system. I'm all for simple subtraction and addition, with bonuses provided based on Strengths and Weaknesses of the elements/techniques clashing. I believe simplifying the damage/rank aspect will make battles easier and jutsu clashes easier to understand.

For Example: A rank Water and A rank Fire clash - normally 60 damage a piece. In this case Water is stronger and gets to overpower the fire. In this case based on the fact Water > Fire then water's rank goes up by one based on the S&W. So it would in fact be basically S-rank Water v A-rank Fire in terms of the clash. 80 - 60 = 20 damage that continues as the water is weakened substantially by the clash although it overpowered the fire.

Something like that wohuld make the Damage System easily understandable as well as consistent.

I do agree with what Scaze also said, about Forbidden Ranks being classified as Ultimate techniques to some degree. But also we need to define the threshold when techniques out damage the standard 90 damage.

Meaningful Stats

This is already apparent by the fact we have specializations. Again the idea behind this should be to expand more upon these specializations and making sure they are easier to understand. If something like this was implemented, maybe additional stats could be purchased via kumi based on the specialization you chose. For example, a person specializing in the Lightning Release can use the element with with a single handseal, and furthers that specialization by adding +10 to their lightning techs, or -10 damage from the opponents lightning, and so on and so forth. That would allow bios to get specific with the specializations that they go for. While also making meaningful requirements to unleash some techniques. Of course, this means Kumi needs to be more accessible as well. Since the site will be more focused on the community, why not breathe life back into Forum Games, and thus make games that can aid people in their RP goals, while promoting site activity.

Removal of Canon Bios

Now one thing you should not do is remove canon characters, personally, I like being able to RP as a character I enjoy from the series and it helps me add to the Roleplay aspect as I get to try and mimic the characters fighting style while implementing my own ideas. This simply needs to be expanded upon much like it has with Bio Skins implementation. The skins should not be only cosmetic, but allows you further customization of a canon character which you already enjoy and is geared towards abilities you like. A bio skin would open up the canon characters in a way that allows one to add their own spin on the character vs just a cosmetic look. So if I wanted to skin Sasuke, I could still do that, but make him in such a way that he becomes more accustomed to my preferred playstyle. Of course, this goes back to having meaningful stats, and expanding upon specializations. This would effectively make it so that no two Sasuke bios were the same.

Customs Revamp


Now this is a bit tricky considering the sheer amount of customs there are and the amount of members who would be shafted if a complete revamp like this were to take place. My thoughts are a soft reset, so that members can choose to get rid of old customs they no longer want, while being able to keep the ideas they already have and being able to update them. This specifically hits home for me, as recently I tried updating a clearly out of date CE only to be told it could not be updated. Something like that makes no sense, as the RP has changed numerous times over the course of time and updates keeps things fresh and understandable. However this means, that all hands would need to be be on deck and this may be a way for Sensei to become more useful.

As of now there are overseers of certain custom sections, and things get checked when they can sure. But, there needs to be more consistency and this has been a problem that's plagued the RP for years with no real solution. My idea would be to make Sensei capable of checking customs.

Sensei being deemed some of the most knowledgeable in the RP could decrease some of the work load required to check customs.
Assigning them to specific sections of the checks such as Senseis X&Y would check CEJ while Senseis A&B check CJs. ANBU could then function as overseers of the entirety of customs making sure Sensei's are properly informed on how to check customs and as well as double checking the custom checks, while also alleviating some of the strain of the Mods. Mods of course would have the final say so in regards to advanced abilities, CEs, CCs, CTs, etc.

 

[Xicer]

I'm going to keep my opinion short and sweet. The only thing that kept going through my mind as I read through most the suggestions was "If it isn't broken, don't fix it". With this in mind, I would agree that something should be done about the damage rules, because I still don't think I fully understand it.

I will add to this, however, if this is because of the hope of new members, I think you are going about it the wrong way. What makes people want to RP, or what made me want to start, was watching how much fun other people were having. If there are new members and the rules change before they come, that's going to piss a lot of people off, firstly, and no one will have as well of an understanding of the system as we do now, limiting the amount of people that could help them start up. All of this culminates into an environment not good for new players or older ones. I believe the best course of action would be to come up with some cool, fun, and unique events to catch their attention, if and when they visit.

 

[Jokey]

Y’all changed enough. I’m just here to say that the custom revamp is a bad idea.

 

[Glad Of War]

Ideas are cool and all, but constant actualization of them leads to the repudiation of those already put in place. I think we falsely believe a new idea normally should be better than the previous ones implemented. That's true, except if the idea of which caused for changes isn't bad, or being an obstacle for a potential development. What am saying is that, these changes are unneeded as most people I've said. Yes change is constant, but it's not too constant.

From the initial suggestion given, I didn't see any problem behind the proposed changes, as it suppose to be when something is required to be change. There's also the ramifications of adjustment. I think speak for a few people, and myself that these constant changes discourages people from rejoining the RP. I tell myself periodically am going to become active again, but in those times, I've had to come in terms with adjusting to something new. Then before I even begin to adjust, another change gets the green-light.

 

[Drackos]

I agree with ZK's point about more exotic combinations for abilities on custom bios. I just don't think it should be at the expense of canon biographies.

 

[Pervyy]

I figured i'd post my thoughts on all of this, but first i'd just like to say how much better the rp is now that you've created a balanced system. With the ranking system, and kumi system, everything is a fairer and balanced, equal opportunities, not like the days of begging for sound release or sensory, just go out, use skills and earn it. Now it's not even that you have to be an amazing powered fighter to do this, even through the new storyboard system, you could just be an amazing writer with no rp battle skills and still unlock the right bio for you and rank up. Basically the entire system works, it's balanced and is well set for any to join the rp.

Now for the actual things you're thinking of changing:

• 3 Ninja Paths for bios to use - you can already pretty much do this. With the new specialities etc that you've introduced, you can focus on elements, or a nin, or gen or even get tai and ken buffs. You can openly choose to do this without restricting the entire base. Over the years i've tried to do this with my bios anyway, like my natsu bio having fire lightning and MS to suit natsu from the show, it was my choice, where as others like to use everything they can, it adds more diversity but the option is still there if they want it.


• Point System - I think this would be hindering choices once more. Like i said before, the kumi system and ranks create the grind and having to work for what you have, so to now restrict that would probably upset many people. Instead, i'd say rework combos that can be combined, you've made it so KG/HA can be combined and that opens up so so much, head in that direction. Like you can't have a mode if you mix a kg and HA, that stuff opens doors without closing others IMO.

• Damage system revamp - Damage system in the rp has always been pretty much a back burner. Like if you're hit by a jutsu you're dead, back in the day. Then it was arguments over what damage is left over etc. None of this over complicated stuff. S rank = 80 damage, A rank is 60 damage. S rank continues as 20 damage. Keep it as that. If you have the elemental advantage, then your jutsu is considered 20 points higher. Well, that's how i always saw it. Compare numbers and go from there.

• Meaningful stats that can be used - I spoke to L about this in the chat on discord. My thoughts are, come together and make a guide, of rulings. Go through the RP Q&A thread, look through judgements in tournaments, in battle test and even the RP updates thread. Bring it all together and summarise in one point what can and can't be done, and keep that updated. Each time a conflict happens, get a ruling, post it as law after discussion, like on a few things:

- Can lightning be used under water? If so, focused and unfocused?
- Clear explanation of substitution, how it works, it's limits, or update the jutsu
- Create facts based on speeds, boosts, tracking. Set out if tracking speed means you can react, or move. Just because you can track X gates with MS, can your body react to it?

• Specialty edits to reflect the first 2 suggestions - already explained above

• Removal of Canon bios and opening of their abilities - Always allow cannon bios. Cannon characters created peoples love for the show right? So why remove what people love? Even then, if people love the abilities and don't love the looks, you can have a bio skin now? And if you don't want their specific build, you can attain the abilities through different means, and create your own combos. If you don't like the cannon Uchiha MS, create custom uchiha, custom MS, that way you can have and AN on it like poison or rain, which say sasuke or itachi can't have. The options are there.

•Customs Reevaluation - you're going to create way too much work for yourselves which you can't keep up with as it is, not trying to throw shots here, but it's been the same since i joined the base. Theres no need to resub every custom to create a new system. The damage as it is seems fine, just need clear ruling on how the interaction of damage goes. If there is a problem with certain customs, have a thread for updating specific ones. Older members such as myself and Nirvana are resubbing old cjs to fix wording, the chakra cost and damages anyway, to make things easier on ourselves and fit in with the modern rp. Other cjs have had rulings on them, such as one example "Iron particle armour", it gives you 3rd gate speed through lightning in your skin, but the ruling was it create no defensive measures. Don't create a mass of work that doesn't need to be done.



Over all, i think you're trying to narrow down what you can do with a bio, which i don't think is what people want or need. You've made massive changes and its been hard for people to keep up with when returning. You have a good system in place for new and old members with equal opportunities, many options for diversity and fairness. Don't try and over do it now.

I suggest making a simple rules forum or guide to the rp, bring all the rules together, in sections, an intro the the rp and how it works:

Bios - template, rank, ranking up, quick access thread - the basic bio rules
Battles - Battle arena or ninja world. Time frame, speed, interactions of jutsu, reactions, combinations, elements strength / weakness
NW - the thread for nw rules is amazingly done as it is


Make the navigation simple and to the point.

Well just my thoughts.

 

[Houdinii]

I might as well post cause why not.

3 Ninja Paths:

Although the general idea of this is cool and I've considered it before myself, the problem is that we have all had access to all the elements and etc on one bio for much too long. It would make battles a kind of scissors, paper, rock match depending on how each persons elements match up. Restricting it now would only reduce activity imo

Point System:

The point system is a cool idea but if it were to be implemented I think it should not come with the Paths system, just seperate on its own to allow greater customisation following whatever restrictions you guys decide are fair.

Damage system revamp:

I am very much for this idea to make it more consistent and clearer on how elements interact and whats left over when they clash, however the problem here is the huge amount of hours spent to edit all these canons and customs. I do not have an answer to this problem, however I have a suggestion should you go ahead with updating the damage system:

Current system

E Rank: 05 Chakra / 10 Damage
D Rank: 10 Chakra / 20 Damage
C Rank: 15 Chakra / 30 Damage
B Rank: 20 Chakra / 40 Damage
A Rank: 30 Chakra / 60 Damage
S Rank: 40 Chakra / 80 Damage
Forbidden: 50 Chakra / 90 Damage

Updated System

E Rank: 05 Chakra / 10 Damage
D Rank: 10 Chakra / 20 Damage
C Rank: 20 Chakra / 40 Damage
B Rank: 30 Chakra / 60 Damage
A Rank: 40 Chakra / 80 Damage
S Rank: 50 Chakra / 100 Damage
Forbidden: 60 Chakra / 120 Damage

Basically the jist is 10 chakra = 20 Damage = 1 rank, well apart from E rank but who the **** cares about E rank. That should make it much easier to understand clashes and should reduce need for rulings and the like.

Canon Bios:
I think they should remain as is

Custom Reset:

As I understand it, no one loses any of their current customs(either created by them or traded for) and the slate is wiped clean allowing them to submit previous ideas as long as they were 'dropped'. If this is correct then I'm for it, as it will only allow us more areas to explore.