Naruto's Idealism or Sasuke's Realist views:Which is more suited for change in NV?

[Raekwon26]

Blabbering

Now, you're blabbering.

You initially said that people who do not share Naruto's views will not be picked for seats of power and their opinions will not be considered because of that.
It had nothing to do with hate, it was just a difference of opinions and you said they will not be picked based on that.

So, I'll say it again (and the history of the Manga backs this up)"If you don't share my views, I don't pick you". Leads to a concentration of power in one place, which can lead to people feeling ignored and ostracized, which can then lead to resentment, which can then lead to hate.............

............and here we are, back at square one.

You can't preach unity and peace if you yourself don't believe in unity.

 

[ShiroT]

I prefer to find a solution that doesn't rely on the idea of humans not being well....human.I like the idea of a combination of Naruto's plan and Sasuke's though since both extremes have some flaws.

the question was which one was best, not how well would they both work together.

and again, its not stopping people from being humans. dude thats just like saying teaching people not to be murderers is not allowing them to be humans or teaching people to not be racist is going against their natural instincts . . .

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Yea in NV, a fictional place.

Kishi was the one who introduced real world logic though.Philosophy,religous themes,morality,all of these things were already in NV to begin with.

 

[ShiroT]

Now, you're blabbering.

You initially said that people who do not share Naruto's views will not be picked for seats of power and their opinions will not be considered because of that.
It had nothing to do with hate, it was just a difference of opinions and you said they will not be picked based on that.

So, I'll say it again (and the history of the Manga backs this up)"If you don't share my views, I don't pick you". Leads to a concentration of power in one place, which can lead to people feeling ignored and ostracized, which can then lead to resentment, which can then lead to hate.............

............and here we are, back at square one.

it does have alot to do with hate. if you have alot of hate in you, if you hate other villages and are likely to cause problems with other villages, if you are not for the people, then you should not be picked. if you think someone who isnt for the people or someone who would cause wars is better for the village then by all means stick with that and spread the idea

thats like saying people who have no respect for children should be allowed to be teachers Lol were not back to square one. you need to think about the majority.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

the question was which one was best, not how well would they both work together.

and again, its not stopping people from being humans. dude thats just like saying teaching people not to be murderers is not allowing them to be humans or teaching people to not be racist is going against their natural instincts . . .

So what's the plan for changing human nature then?Remove any and all base instincts that cause them to have negative emotions.

 

[-Drāke-]

Kishi was the one who introduced real world logic though.Philosophy,religous themes,morality,all of these things were already in NV to begin with.

Okay and? It's still a fictional story
It's a story that can chose to follow real world logic or not, ending hatred could use real world logic or not

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Sasuke's "peace" will not lead to peace.

It will spurn more hatred, cause more wars, and create more versions of Sasuke himself. There is no solace to be had there. Hagoromo/Jiraiya/Naruto's way is the only true way to harmony in the NarutoVerse as it is the only way to end the cycle once and for all.

Everybody has different views, Naruto's way basically assumes that everybody will share a hive mind and agree on everything. As long as there is individuality, there will be conflict.

 

[Raekwon26]

it does have alot to do with hate. if you have alot of hate in you, if you hate other villages and are likely to cause problems with other villages, if you are not for the people, then you should not be picked. if you think someone who isnt for the people or someone who would cause wars is better for the village then by all means stick with that and spread the idea

No it doesn't. It has nothing to do with hate.

You said that not believing in Naruto's ideals means you will not be listened to or considered for a position of power, simply because you don't believe in Naruto's ideals.

That has nothing to do with hate. That type of thinking can breed hate.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. That's Prejudice.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Okay and? It's still a fictional story
It's a story that can chose to follow real world logic or not, ending hatred could use real world logic or not

So what's the problem?Real world logic can be applied when discussing the major theme of the series,it just can't be used for anything else.

 

[-Drāke-]

So what's the problem?Real world logic can be applied when discussing the major theme of the series,it just can't be used for anything else.

That some of you guys are saying Naruto's way isn't best suited in NV because of human nature
But I'm saying it can, if kishi allows it to happen. If hey chooses to follow real world logic it can't, but if he doesn't it can

 

[ShiroT]

No it doesn't. It has nothing to do with hate.

You said that not believing in Naruto's ideals means you will not be listened to or considered for a position of power, simply because you don't believe in Naruto's ideals.

That has nothing to do with hate. That type of thinking can breed hate.

EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong. That's Prejudice.

and what is naruto's idea? No hate.

you have yet to answer my question. so your saying a tyrant should be a kage?

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

That some of you guys are saying Naruto's way isn't best suited in NV because of human nature
But I'm saying it can, if kishi allows it to happen. If hey chooses to follow real world logic it can't, but if he doesn't it can

Naruto's plan will work in the short term and I've even said it was a admirable one.But people will fight at some point in the future regardless.

 

[Raekwon26]

and what is naruto's idea? No hate.

you have yet to answer my question. so your saying a tyrant should be a kage.

.....and I have been saying that getting rid of hate is not something that will come easy, nor is it something that the Manga has shown as sustainable.

I never said a tyrant should be Kage. There should be no need for titles if you seriously want to get rid of hate.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

and what is naruto's idea? No hate.

you have yet to answer my question. so your saying a tyrant should be a kage?

Excluding people from positions of power because they don't share your views is another form of tyranny.

 

[-Drāke-]

Naruto's plan will work in the short term and I've even said it was a admirable one.But people will fight at some point in the future regardless.

Ah, see you're going the real world logic route
What if kishi doesn't allow that, what if there's peace forever in NV.

 

[Raekwon26]

Ah, see you're going the real world logic route
What if kishi doesn't allow that, what if there's peace forever in NV.

What are you two even discussing?

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Ah, see you're going the real world logic route
What if kishi doesn't allow that, what if there's peace forever in NV.

Then I'll accept it.

What are you two even discussing?

No clue honestly.

 

[Honord Sage]

With out Dreamers the World never changes it stays the same stale world as before. Sasuke represents the old tired way of doing things,Naruto represents the possibility of change. Were would America be if the founding Fathers were not dreamers?

 

[ShiroT]

.....and I have been saying that getting rid of hate is not something that will come easy, nor is it something that the Manga has shown as sustainable.

I never said a tyrant should be Kage. There should be no need for titles if you seriously want to get rid of hate.

if a tyrant shouldnt be hokage then you agree that its the right way so stop arguing against it.

people need a leader. without a leader you get a group who can have conflicting ideas. without a group in power people are free to make there won rules.

a leader is the safest route

 

[nightwolf888]

well nethier of them really have a plan, they might be starting to form an idea, but both of them really need to think and talk about what they going to do before either of them take some higher leadership postion. one issue they could start off talking about and agree on is there will be no more jins and the tailed beast most released, i think naruto and sasuke could agree on that