[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 600 Discussion and 601 Predictions

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thewondererer

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1. In order for Tobi to really be Obito, one of two things had to happen:
- Obito would have had to survive what had happened during the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and rescue him. Obito was clearly dead, because if he weren't Minato would have rescued him.
- Obito would have dad to be resurrected at some point after the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and resurrect him. Obito was a worthless child who had zero skills and was afraid of everything. There wasn't any reason for anyone to come and resurrect him.
Yeah I suspect Obito may have gotten resurrected because you are right about one thing. Rin would probably have pointed out where Obito is to Minato if she suspected Obito was still alive and being a bawse that he is, Minato would have saved him. BUT, what if that did happen except before Minato could get there, Obito's body already disappeared? So no Obito was not clearly dead.

Also Obito was no worthless child. He was an Uchiha and that in itself is a great feat to have especially for the use of another Uchiha *cough*Madara*cough*

2. There is no guarantee that a rescued or resurrected Obito would cooperate or agree with the ideals of people like Madara.
There is no guarantee but there is a possibility. Again they are both Uchihas which makes Madara credible enough for Obito to listen to. And people are not static creatures. We are constantly changing. A good guy can turn into a bad guy you know. Otherwise, some babies would be criminals already.

3. We don't know when Rin died, and we don't know that she was dead during the Kyuubi attack on Konoha the day Naruto was born.
True.

4. The person who attacked Konoha that day was clearly an S level jounin capable of utilizing high level ninja techs in such a way that Minato himself assumed that he was Madara.
The ninja didn't have to be S-level because Minato had the right to suspect it may be Madara due to similarities such as manipulating the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. The only high level skill I saw used by the masked man is the Time Space jutsu aside from manipulating the Kyuubi (which the masked man could have had help with in achieving)

5. The person who is fighting now against Kakashi, Guy, and Naruto is the same exact person who fought Minato and unleashed the 9 tails on Konoha.
Maybe.

6. It makes a lot more sense for someone to come along and take Obito's body and then use it to resurrect someone important, such as Izuna, someone who is already allied to Madara, than it does to grab some no-name side character from a filler chapter and trust them with your legacy.
Obito was not a no-name. Kishi did not just show his relationship with Kakashi but he also showed much depth of him and his emotions. A story to himself and not a filler chapter.
 
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Ok ppl I've been reading that orbitio was worthless and all this other bull nut I think think that most forgery that he was a chunin at the age of 13 and that was with out the sharingan and with it his abailities could have gone thru the roof in a short amount of time he he was not dumb and also let us not forget naruto was once worthless and untalanted but now has surpassed kage level in just 3 or 4 short years proving that with guts and determination nething can be done
 

squigles

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Yeah I suspect Obito may have gotten resurrected because you are right about one thing. Rin would probably have pointed out where Obito is to Minato if she suspected Obito was still alive and being a bawse that he is, Minato would have saved him. BUT, what if that did happen except before Minato could get there, Obito's body already disappeared? So no Obito was not clearly dead.
He was buried under a shit ton of rocks, and it all happened within a few minutes. So you're telling me that he was resurrected or rescued in the space of minutes? That would take planning and foresight, like Madara KNEW he was going to get crushed by a bunch of rocks so he would have the opportunity to turn some no-name Uchiha. Do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?

Also Obito was no worthless child. He was an Uchiha and that in itself is a great feat to have especially for the use of another Uchiha *cough*Madara*cough*
You're right, he was the main character and the most important Uchiha.[/sarcasm] Obito was one of Kakashi's teammates, who was always late, always sucked at techniques (like Naruto), and was terrible at doing what was necessary (except at the very last minute, when he awakened his sharingan and teamed up with Kakashi to save Rin). Not to mention he was only really featured within an extended chapter in which he DIED. At best he's a supporting character in a five chapter side story and has really no importance as an Uchiha.

There is no guarantee but there is a possibility. Again they are both Uchihas which makes Madara credible enough for Obito to listen to. And people are not static creatures. We are constantly changing. A good guy can turn into a bad guy you know. Otherwise, some babies would be criminals already.
Again, we're talking about a character who was killed in the only mini story arc he was in. 'You let rin die' is not enough for a side character to all of a sudden develop this evil plan to enslave the world in the name of peace, especially when it's completely contingent on an event (rin's death) which did not happen in the time frame of minutes that Obito would have to be rescued/resurrected.

It's like Kishi expects us to think Obito died (but not really) and then some time later Rin dies, and then Obito was just hanging out someplace until that happened in order to devise some plan to enslave the world. That's so convoluted it definitely ruins the story.

The ninja didn't have to be S-level because Minato had the right to suspect it may be Madara due to similarities such as manipulating the Kyuubi and the Sharingan. The only high level skill I saw used by the masked man is the Time Space jutsu aside from manipulating the Kyuubi (which the masked man could have had help with in achieving)
He snuck into Konoha without tripping their barrier detection, killed all the Anbu who were guarding Kushina during birth, and took baby Naruto hostage without Minato even realizing it until it was too late. Then he managed to abduct Kushina and almost kill Minato AND baby Naruto in just a few seconds.

If you don't think that he's was an S class ninja at that point, you're fooling yourself.

Madara has never had a reason to wear a mask, and if he were to come back and attack Konoha and devise this plan to enslave the world, do you honestly think he would put a mask on? The only reason to wear a mask is to hide your identity, which is not something Madara would do in the first place, especially when he goes around telling people his name.

No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is.

Obito was not a no-name. Kishi did not just show his relationship with Kakashi but he also showed much depth of him and his emotions. A story to himself and not a filler chapter.
Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.
 

NarutoMinato

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I have an idea about this part of the story, tell me your opinion please.

If you remember when asked Tobi more than once his name, he answered the name is not important, the name "Tobi" is an idea and not a person.

I think we have to believe that Tobi wasn't always Obito. If you remember, when Uchiha Itachi asked for Tobi's help, he had log hair and mask, for the hair, i would say he was really Madara, and the one who tried to summon the kyuby was Madara and not Obito, and kyuby reallizes the Madara's chakra and not Obito's.

Kyuby never showed fear in front of Tobi/Obito, only in front of Madara, wich makes me believe that the one who was behind the attack to konoha with the kyuby was Madara behind the mask and not Obito. Later on, he maybe teached Obito and passed his legacy to him.

This explains everything, because the kyuby, doesn't recognized him, neither the 4th Hokage.

The one thing I can't explain is how Madara had the same power that Obito has to switch dimensions while fighting the 4th Hokage.
I do agree with you for most of your comments. The only difference is that it was Zetsu, having powers from both Obito and Madara, who fought Minato. This is the only thing that I can think of which can set everything right. The proof of that guy being Zetsu is the left hand damage, which kishi showed totally on purpose. And we have seen throughout the Manga that Tobi's right hand was damaged except against Minato.
 

Fiercesoul

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Agreed. Tobi He basically has collectivist ideals. He wants to relinquish all that is individuality in the world because that is truly the source of pain and he realized this when he lost the love of his life in an unfortunate manner. So ultimately, I would expect that resurrecting Rin would not change his ideals at all because he already knows the world will continue to cause great amounts of pain.

I understand his philosophy in life but I feel he belittles the great equalizer for pain which is happiness. Individuality causes pain but it also causes happiness. His Infinite Tsukuyomi would contain neither and world would become an emotionless place. The people in the Ninja World may as well be robots if that time comes. If Tobi is the only one unaffected by the Tsukuyomi, he would eventually succumb to unhappiness due to his loneliness. If he is also affected by the Tsukuyomi then everyone is better off left dead cause what is there to live for if you can't find the joy in life. I believe happiness, although seemingly an equalizer to pain, is overall better than pain because you can live in a very depressing world but if you have that one support that brightens up your day then that is what will ultimately stick in your head. That's my take on it.


The bolded word is key.
Ladies and gentlemen we have a poet here =) Truly, kuddos for you for the nice text you made!

Yes, Obito is truly lost in his heart.

On a side note...Obito is Obito guys. For the ones telling it's Zetsu because of the Zetsu arm that fell from him during the fight with Minato listen to this:

- If Madara has Hashirama Cells, why shouldn't Obito have too? And i don't mean if it was necessary or not for his recovery, it's just logical...if you can use Hashirama Cells to get stronger, why won't you?
 

ARandomBlackKid

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Obito just wants to save the world (In his eyes) By Making them live in a falsified sense of reality. To him he thinks people would enjoy being happy all the time without knowing its absolutely fake rather than living life and having to go through struggles of course it will eventually fail because somebody will realize and get out of it but still. It is just what obito feels is right the whole You let Rin die thing honestly doesn't matter at least he didn't just go
Obito: Ow I got Crushed by rocks
Madara: Woah Hi there little boy wanna suck on my popsicle
Obito: No Ow My right side hurts
Obito: Well my friends are gone might aswell turn evil
Madara: Let me teach you
Obito: Okay sure :p
Like honestly guys just calm down at least accept it and move on because Kishi is a good write WOAH Man Really? yea he is it will all play out perfectly do you think he is going to fail that hard over one thing no he is going to make it interesting.
 

konte811

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He was buried under a shit ton of rocks, and it all happened within a few minutes. So you're telling me that he was resurrected or rescued in the space of minutes? That would take planning and foresight, like Madara KNEW he was going to get crushed by a bunch of rocks so he would have the opportunity to turn some no-name Uchiha. Do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?



You're right, he was the main character and the most important Uchiha.[/sarcasm] Obito was one of Kakashi's teammates, who was always late, always sucked at techniques (like Naruto), and was terrible at doing what was necessary (except at the very last minute, when he awakened his sharingan and teamed up with Kakashi to save Rin). Not to mention he was only really featured within an extended chapter in which he DIED. At best he's a supporting character in a five chapter side story and has really no importance as an Uchiha.



Again, we're talking about a character who was killed in the only mini story arc he was in. 'You let rin die' is not enough for a side character to all of a sudden develop this evil plan to enslave the world in the name of peace, especially when it's completely contingent on an event (rin's death) which did not happen in the time frame of minutes that Obito would have to be rescued/resurrected.

It's like Kishi expects us to think Obito died (but not really) and then some time later Rin dies, and then Obito was just hanging out someplace until that happened in order to devise some plan to enslave the world. That's so convoluted it definitely ruins the story.



He snuck into Konoha without tripping their barrier detection, killed all the Anbu who were guarding Kushina during birth, and took baby Naruto hostage without Minato even realizing it until it was too late. Then he managed to abduct Kushina and almost kill Minato AND baby Naruto in just a few seconds.

If you don't think that he's was an S class ninja at that point, you're fooling yourself.



Madara has never had a reason to wear a mask, and if he were to come back and attack Konoha and devise this plan to enslave the world, do you honestly think he would put a mask on? The only reason to wear a mask is to hide your identity, which is not something Madara would do in the first place, especially when he goes around telling people his name.

No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is.



Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.
you're really really REALLY too into this. its a damn comic. chill out and read the damn story. its not like you can even complain, YOU ARENT EVEN PAYING FOR THIS. dafuq you complaining about? you don't like it then stop reading. I'm tired of all these ******* posts about how much they hate naruto now. SO LEAVE. WE DONT WANT YOU HERE.
 

Kakash1

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He was buried under a shit ton of rocks, and it all happened within a few minutes. So you're telling me that he was resurrected or rescued in the space of minutes? That would take planning and foresight, like Madara KNEW he was going to get crushed by a bunch of rocks so he would have the opportunity to turn some no-name Uchiha. Do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?



You're right, he was the main character and the most important Uchiha.[/sarcasm] Obito was one of Kakashi's teammates, who was always late, always sucked at techniques (like Naruto), and was terrible at doing what was necessary (except at the very last minute, when he awakened his sharingan and teamed up with Kakashi to save Rin). Not to mention he was only really featured within an extended chapter in which he DIED. At best he's a supporting character in a five chapter side story and has really no importance as an Uchiha.



Again, we're talking about a character who was killed in the only mini story arc he was in. 'You let rin die' is not enough for a side character to all of a sudden develop this evil plan to enslave the world in the name of peace, especially when it's completely contingent on an event (rin's death) which did not happen in the time frame of minutes that Obito would have to be rescued/resurrected.

It's like Kishi expects us to think Obito died (but not really) and then some time later Rin dies, and then Obito was just hanging out someplace until that happened in order to devise some plan to enslave the world. That's so convoluted it definitely ruins the story.



He snuck into Konoha without tripping their barrier detection, killed all the Anbu who were guarding Kushina during birth, and took baby Naruto hostage without Minato even realizing it until it was too late. Then he managed to abduct Kushina and almost kill Minato AND baby Naruto in just a few seconds.

If you don't think that he's was an S class ninja at that point, you're fooling yourself.



Madara has never had a reason to wear a mask, and if he were to come back and attack Konoha and devise this plan to enslave the world, do you honestly think he would put a mask on? The only reason to wear a mask is to hide your identity, which is not something Madara would do in the first place, especially when he goes around telling people his name.

No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is.



Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.
totally agreed
 

Fiercesoul

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There's one major plot hole or explanation that i am thinking about right now...Kisame!

1- Madara was the one controlling the Mizukage and approached him. They became close and he was enlisted to the plan.
2- Later on, when Tobi/Obito takes the mask and shows himself to Kisame...he didn't know that he was "Madara" but he recognized him as Madara.

This leaves one question...Madara lived for very long but he died before the second encounter mentioned...So why did Kisame mistake Tobi/Obito with Madara? Two paths can be chosen:

1- He didn't know about Tobi so he possibly couldn't know about Obito...maybe Genjutsu from Obito's borrowed left eye?
2- Tobi/Obito, due to the Hashirama/Zetsu cells/parts can change his face?

For me, this is the only part of Kishi's story that lacks, for now, an explanation. But this is certain, the only ones who knew that the Second Tobi was Obito were Obito himself, Zetsu and Madara so that the name Madara could wreak havoc all over the world and command respect. Nagato, Kisame and all the rest were just pawns.
 

squigles

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you're really really REALLY too into this. its a damn comic. chill out and read the damn story. its not like you can even complain, YOU ARENT EVEN PAYING FOR THIS. dafuq you complaining about? you don't like it then stop reading. I'm tired of all these ******* posts about how much they hate naruto now. SO LEAVE. WE DONT WANT YOU HERE.
1. No where did I say I hated the manga.

2. I'm not complaining about anything.

3. I'm simply pointing out how things don't make sense, IE all these plot holes which indicate that Tobi is not really Obitio.

4. If this manga were available in my country for money, I'd be more than willing to buy it.

5. Of course it's a damn comic. And this is a discussion forum designed to discuss said damn comic. All I'm doing here is discussing the damn comic.

6. Telling me to chill out and read the comic right after you said I was too into it, is completely contradictory.
 

Vegeta

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I do agree with you for most of your comments. The only difference is that it was Zetsu, having powers from both Obito and Madara, who fought Minato. This is the only thing that I can think of which can set everything right. The proof of that guy being Zetsu is the left hand damage, which kishi showed totally on purpose. And we have seen throughout the Manga that Tobi's right hand was damaged except against Minato.
I agree, unless Tobi was lying when he told Sasuke he wasn't responsible for the attack 16 years ago
 

thewondererer

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Lol don't say chill to squigles cause he's actually giving a thoughtful discussion.

He was buried under a shit ton of rocks, and it all happened within a few minutes. So you're telling me that he was resurrected or rescued in the space of minutes? That would take planning and foresight, like Madara KNEW he was going to get crushed by a bunch of rocks so he would have the opportunity to turn some no-name Uchiha. Do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?
He was buried under a shit ton of rocks but it didn't confirm his death and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we didn't know how long Kakashi was gone from when he blacked out to waking up. For all we know, while Obito was barely breathing, he could have been rescued cause we don't know how fast time gone by.


You're right, he was the main character and the most important Uchiha.[/sarcasm] Obito was one of Kakashi's teammates, who was always late, always sucked at techniques (like Naruto), and was terrible at doing what was necessary (except at the very last minute, when he awakened his sharingan and teamed up with Kakashi to save Rin). Not to mention he was only really featured within an extended chapter in which he DIED. At best he's a supporting character in a five chapter side story and has really no importance as an Uchiha.
The fact that Obito awakened his Sharingan is already a valuable feat to have. That is basically a potential future Mangekyou or Rinnegan user so why wouldn't someone like Madara take him in?


Again, we're talking about a character who was killed in the only mini story arc he was in. 'You let rin die' is not enough for a side character to all of a sudden develop this evil plan to enslave the world in the name of peace, especially when it's completely contingent on an event (rin's death) which did not happen in the time frame of minutes that Obito would have to be rescued/resurrected.
Why is losing the person you deeply loved the most not enough to suddenly seek justice/vengeance against the world? I mean look at Batman. His parents dies and so he trains up to become Batman and fight baddies. Yeah? Also I agree that the "you let rin die" was pretty sudden though and that we should stay patient for Kishi to explain that part because he can't just explain everything in one chapter.

It's like Kishi expects us to think Obito died (but not really) and then some time later Rin dies, and then Obito was just hanging out someplace until that happened in order to devise some plan to enslave the world. That's so convoluted it definitely ruins the story.
In my opinion, it was unique plot twist that got the audience to feel engaged in the manga and it sparked heated discussions. I also think it's unfair to judge it now because Kishi hasn't even begun to explain the Rin thing. So again, patience.

He snuck into Konoha without tripping their barrier detection, killed all the Anbu who were guarding Kushina during birth, and took baby Naruto hostage without Minato even realizing it until it was too late. Then he managed to abduct Kushina and almost kill Minato AND baby Naruto in just a few seconds.

If you don't think that he's was an S class ninja at that point, you're fooling yourself.
I guess I did fool myself. Point taken.

Madara has never had a reason to wear a mask, and if he were to come back and attack Konoha and devise this plan to enslave the world, do you honestly think he would put a mask on? The only reason to wear a mask is to hide your identity, which is not something Madara would do in the first place, especially when he goes around telling people his name.

No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is.
I do feel the masked person is most likely Obito. I should've said "Probably." instead of "Maybe." but I wouldn't disregard a possibly of Madara wearing the mask. I mean people are creative and will do things outside the box that you would not have suspected such as Orochimaru coming back or Orochimaru using Kabuto as a double-spy.

Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.
Again, it's unfair to judge it like that now while Kishi hasn't gotten down to explaining more things such as Rin dying. Also it could be argued that as a character, Obito has a higher value than Madara because he was infact seen in an entire story arc that provoked the audience to feel attached to Obito while Madara was just in little snippets of flashbacks and statues.
 
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Volcanikage

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LOL! Once again Orochimaru is the best final villain for this series Obito and Madara are about to get own by all konoha 12,kakashi, guy and killer bee o and by the madara being there most likely means all 5 kages are dead
 

DannySenju

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i laughed when u said :"No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is". because it was funny and very smart because were gonna trolled next week when Madara runs his mouth or with Kishimoto revealing Obito is just a host *cough* Kagami *cough* or Izuna *cough* those theories stay strong!
 

DannySenju

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i don't remember Tobi ever using Genjutsu probably through that MS or a regular one he has he has but remember if he can do then Kakashi can too cause there are the same eyes
 

squigles

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He was buried under a shit ton of rocks but it didn't confirm his death and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we didn't know how long Kakashi was gone from when he blacked out to waking up. For all we know, while Obito was barely breathing, he could have been rescued cause we don't know how fast time gone by.
His death was pretty much confirmed by being crushed by a shit ton of rocks, and then being crushed again by the surrounding dozen or so rock ninja.

- Kakashi and Obito save rin.
- Rin, Kakashi, and Obito try to escape as one of the rock ninja implode the cave down around them.
- Kakashi gets hit by a rock and falls down, Obito grabs him and throws him clear of the falling rocks, getting crushed himself.
- Kakashi wakes up, and finds that Obito is crushed by rocks.
- Obito gives him his left eye, and Rin implants it.
- Kakashi finishes off the rock shinobi.
- A bunch more rock shinobi show up, Kakashi and Rin narrowly escape the rubble before Obito gets crushed again.
- Kakashi blacks out just before Minato shows up and kills all the rock ninja.

There is no way that Minato would not try to rescue Obito if he thought he was alive, and he would have undoubtedly dug through the rocks to get his corpse. So the time frame we are talking about here between the time Obito was crushed a second time and then Minato showing up is literally a matter of minutes, if that. Whomever rescued/resurrected Obito would have had to act within those few minutes before Minato got there and that would take insane planning and foresight.

Otherwise, Minato senses that Obito is dead under the pile of rocks and transports his corpse back to Konoha for a burial. Or Minato leaves his corpse there and they bury an empty casket.

The fact that Obito awakened his Sharingan is already a valuable feat to have. That is basically a potential future Mangekyou or Rinnegan user so why wouldn't someone like Madara take him in?
Because he has absolutely zero reason to. The Uchiha betrayed him, remember? He was the only Uchiha (besides his brother) who was willing to do whatever it took to keep his power in the ninja world, and no other Uchiha would stand by him. He has no reason to take in a dying Uchiha boy, and would be in a better position if he just killed him and took his sharingan or used his dead body for experiments.

Why is losing the person you deeply loved the most not enough to suddenly seek justice/vengeance against the world? I mean look at Batman. His parents dies and so he trains up to become Batman and fight baddies. Yeah? Also I agree that the "you let rin die" was pretty sudden though and that we should stay patient for Kishi to explain that part because he can't just explain everything in one chapter.
Because you have to lose the person close to you before you can become angry enough about it to seek vengeance. Obito's death was BEFORE Rin died, so therefore his rescue or resurrection had to also happen BEFORE Rin died. So whoever helped Obito would have had to see the future to know that Rin was going to die and that Obito would be pissed enough about it to Rage at the world.

Do you understand my point yet? How does Madara know to save Obito so that he can become evil and enslave the world, when the cause of his evilness has not yet happened? We're talking about a matter of minutes in a timeline where Rin is not dead.... therefore 'because you let Rin die' is not a valid reason for Obito to have survived his supposed death and come back as an evil super villain.

In my opinion, it was unique plot twist that got the audience to feel engaged in the manga and it sparked heated discussions. I also think it's unfair to judge it now because Kishi hasn't even begun to explain the Rin thing. So again, patience.
It was a unique plot twist to have someone you thought was dead come back as the main villain. However, none of the events that transpired afterward make any sense given the context of that characters death. The 'Rin thing' is what makes the least sense of all. Kishi doesn't need to explain it because it doesn't fit at all. It's literally the same as Obito coming back as the main villain and telling Kakashi it's because 'he let Jiraya die.' Or because he 'let Minato die.' Or any other major character who died AFTER Obito. It's just not logically possible for Obito's survival and subsequent turn into an evil bastard to be explained by Rin's death.

I do feel the masked person is most likely Obito. I should've said "Probably." instead of "Maybe." but I wouldn't disregard a possibly of Madara wearing the mask. I mean people are creative and will do things outside the box that you would not have suspected such as Orochimaru coming back or Orochimaru using Kabuto as a double-spy.
Except there is no logical reason for Madara to wear a mask (when he never did before) and then run around claiming to be Madara. Do you put on a mask and then run around telling people who you really are? That just seems like a retarded thing to do imo. It would make more sense to wear a mask to specifically HIDE who you really are.

Again, it's unfair to judge it like that now while Kishi hasn't gotten down to explaining more things such as Rin dying. Also it could be argued that as a character, Obito has a higher value than Madara because he was infact seen in an entire story arc that provoked the audience to feel attached to Obito while Madara was just in little snippets of flashbacks and statues.
Except that Madara has been a major character in the story arc and one of the most powerful ninja ever. During his 5 chapter mini arc, Obito was a bumbling fool and only barely managed to awaken his sharingan and save Kakashi. Let's say for sake of my point, that instead of being called Naruto, the story was called Sasuke, and Naruto died in the first 3 chapters. What would you think about Naruto at that point?

Pretty shitty no-name character. The only reason why you think anything of Naruto now is because the main story is centered on him, and he's had 600 chapters to grow up and become a powerful force for good.
 

hugocruzz

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1. In order for Tobi to really be Obito, one of two things had to happen:
- Obito would have had to survive what had happened during the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and rescue him. Obito was clearly dead, because if he weren't Minato would have rescued him.
- Obito would have dad to be resurrected at some point after the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and resurrect him. Obito was a worthless child who had zero skills and was afraid of everything. There wasn't any reason for anyone to come and resurrect him.

2. There is no guarantee that a rescued or resurrected Obito would cooperate or agree with the ideals of people like Madara.

3. We don't know when Rin died, and we don't know that she was dead during the Kyuubi attack on Konoha the day Naruto was born.

4. The person who attacked Konoha that day was clearly an S level jounin capable of utilizing high level ninja techs in such a way that Minato himself assumed that he was Madara.

5. The person who is fighting now against Kakashi, Guy, and Naruto is the same exact person who fought Minato and unleashed the 9 tails on Konoha.

6. It makes a lot more sense for someone to come along and take Obito's body and then use it to resurrect someone important, such as Izuna, someone who is already allied to Madara, than it does to grab some no-name side character from a filler chapter and trust them with your legacy.
Your theory makes sense and it's possible, but I don't think that is the case, sorry.

I know that is hard for some of you to believe that Tobi is really Obito and you wish that Izuna is the one behind the cene. For one side I could believe in that but fot the other, not quite.

Here is why. First it wouldn't make sense to build a mooneye plan if Madara and Izuna were alive. I still think this plan, is a plan for the oportunity of Madara seeing is brother again and live happily with him. With Obito, his endourssment is to see Rin again.

Second, I don't think if Obito was Izuna, would talk about Rin, and don't denied when called Obito by Kakashi. Also Madara called him Obito.

Third, the endo tensei uses other body but it transforms it into the original person, like all the edo tenseis. I don't think if Izuna was resurrected, that he would look like Obito.

About Minato can't find Obito's body, I still believe Madara could get there first, because Minato said, sorry I'm too late. Madara had time to took his body.

About it doesn't make sense to take Obito's body because he was a failure, I don't agree with that, an Uchiha, is always an Uchiha, Sharingan, is always Sharingan. That was why Lee was so envious about Sasuke, Uchihas have an advantage in relation with other cultures, that's why the Uchihas were hated by many clans.

Madara could also have seen the potencial in his eyes, or after he activated the MS, wanted to try and still them.

And like i said before, I don't believe that the person who helped Itachi killing the Uchiha clan and the one who attacked Konoha are the same person. He have seen the difference in the hair and in the difficulty of Minato fighting Tobi back then, and Minato didn't recognized his chakra like beeing Obito's chakra.

To me this theory makes more sense.

About the revenge of Obito because of Rin, I think Obito was manipulated by Madara, like i talked before, it's here:

Pretty good chapter, like most of people, didn't like the flashbacks, nothing new...

One thing I was thinking and I think it will be awesome if it happens and I would like your opinion in this matter.

We still don't know the full history of Rin, and I hope we find out soon, but I think it's possible that Madara was the one who killed her/caused her death and manipulated Obito to join forces with him.

And if this is true, it will be fun to see how would he react when he knows the truth, and here is where Orochimaru enters, maybe he has the poof that Madara killed Rin or caused her death, and he is gathering that information with Sasuke to show to Obito and it can make a huge turn on the manga's history, wich would be interesting.

Maybe Obito could turn on Madara and tries to kill him, because to me, if the 5 kages can't kill Madara, Naruto can't kill Madara and Obito, something has to change, and I think that Obito is the key, but what do you think?

I think it's an interesting theory and possible, give me your opinions on the future please.

Cheers everyone!
Thank you for your opinion. We could discuss more often opinions if you want, i respect very much your theory, very good thinking over there,

Cheers.
 

SEEDLESS

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on my opinion, obito suddenly discovered space time jutsu when he was covered by the boulder. maybe accidentally hearing the screams of Rin dying or maybe with the help of madara. there is no way he could escape that big boulder. then madara came to rescue obito and cured him, madara found obito as a potential ally that's why he kept and trained him
 
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