[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 514 Discussion/ 515 Predictions

[arjun3394]

hi there arjun3394...

nice to read from you, and yes i love sasuke...but i love Naruto more.
sometimes you have to love your enemy -- to defeat them.
you are right that his chidori is taught to him by kakashi. his kirin is from oro...
but his other techs??? what are those???

i believe sasuke has no kekei genkai like Naruto--i might be wrong.

sasuke is like Naruto -- he was already gifted with powers.
kabuto was no-one, that i knew of... his powers??? please let me know what were his powers from the start. and now that he is older (kabuto)...his powers are still not his to call his own...

thats a valid point u put up.
but.. Sasuke has advantage of uchiha clan which is a gift of his blood, all his jutsus like kirin, summons, fire techs etc are all gift or helped by others to evolve. Sasuke is genius but others are no losers, even naruto was always saved by kyubi many times, his tricks are also not original but better than his predecessors.
People like kabuto make difference, people who have nothing and rise to heights. Kabuto had nothing, he was a mere kid adopted by a medical nin of konoha. No-ones rising to that mark are plausible, KAbuto's medical techs surpass tsunade as acknowledged by tsunade during the sannin battle. his mind and composure were his main assets, even oro admitted it when he sent him to meet sasuke in hospital. Now that he has all dead akatsuki members he's strong. With this new edo tensei he can have the summons have their mind so that they can fight to the fullest but he even can override their will as seen in case of deidara.
i dont say he'll become ultimate villain but others here underestimate him.
Sasuke always thought of himself never cared for others, unlike naruto. He is always driven by his selfish motives and arrogant head. Even the techs he's now using are itachi's gift. Even after awaking the mangekyo these techs do not sow up as mentioned by itachi, itachi got them after killing all uchiha, sasuke got them for free like everything. He's good but not that good always getting rescued, like zetsu and all and winning battles already in his favour like itachi's and deidara's.
Kabuto has something great up his sleeve, he'll not go down so easily as he has all the 5 akatsuki and the 6th person. All of them are no chickens as seen throughout the series, they were the most powerful shinobi's around, theyalone could change the pahse

 

[Warlock Tigerwolf]

Tobi's hair is black. Madara's hair was also black. I don't see how the hair color is wrong.
Gaara's brother, Kankuro, changed the purple markings on his face at least 2 times during the series. Sasuke, Sakura, Gaara, Neji and others changed their clothing in the 3 year gap between the original series and shippuuden. Karin was also shown with a ponytail once. If that isn't a change in appearance I don't know what is.
Now during his fight with Konan Madara's mask got blown off in the area of his right eye. He tried to absorb himself and what did he do? He put his hand on top of the hole in the mask even though Konan had already seen her face. So if I would have to guess, I'd say he needs to have covered the face around his eye to absorb himself.

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And about Edo tensei the 2nd hokage invented it, Orochimaru was the 2nd user and Kabuto is the 3rd who has surpassed the previous ones.

Tobi's hair is brown, if you go by the anime, while Madara and every other uchiha's hair is jet black. In fact tobi's hair looks more like yamato's than madara's.

Yes when they grew up some characters changed their clothes. if tobi is madara he's been grown up for the better part of a century.

Sakura changed her hair, and yes even hinata grew her hair out long.

The rest of the characters in the show, no, they haven't changed their appearance that drastically.... ever.

So Kankuro changed the design of his purple makeup.... whoopdie doo, it's still purple makeup, it's still in an intricate design on his face.

by that logic Jiraya is proof that tobi could be madara, because when he went into sage mode he changed his appearance and looked more like a frog.

yet we could still recognize him as jiraya from any angle.


Frankly, I'm tired of this debate already, people keep requiring me to repeat myself constantly which is something I disdain. So I will say this for the third and final time, and anyone who wants to continue this debate with me, can refer to this statement and consider the matter done.



"I AGREE THERE IS A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE THAT TOBI IS MADARA UCHIHA. THERE IS HOWEVER A FOOTHILL OF EVIDENCE THAT TOBI IS LYING ABOUT BEING MADARA UCHIHA. WHILE THE REASONABLE PART OF MY BRAIN DOES SAY YES TOBI IS MOST LIKELY MADARA UCHIHA. MY GUT REFUSES TO SUBMIT AND CONTINUES TO INSIST THAT TOBI IS LYING ABOUT BEING MADARA UCHIHA."

Thank you, and good night.

 

[edwardthedaddy]

damn, kabuto has something more up his sleeve, next he's probably gonna revive his long lost brother harry potter

good grief bro

 

[Akatsuki leader]

My predication:

Yamato: ughh what are you want from me kabuto?
Kabuto: hahammmm just a little DNA sample thats all!!!
Yamato: uaahhh you bastard!!!
Kabuto: ok igot the DNA
Madara: i use on him the sharingan and rinengan...
Kabuto: ok make it faster...
Yamato: noo auuhh gua uhghhh
Madara: in (yamato brain)
madara: ahha so thats where the kiuby and haciby
madara: i got the iformation so i kil you
madara: used pain justu Soul absorb...
Yamato: ughgugghhh

Naruto: uhh Datebayo where is yamato bayo?
konoha ninja : naruto you must a ... what a...??
Naruto: can i suck this Turtle ****????
konoha ninja? just doit but makeit fast kay??
Naruto ok
Naruto: i finished!!!
konohaninja: ohh gosh...
killerbee: man you gay??
naruto: YES wait are you not gay bee san? i wating for you sasuke gaara i gonna **** with you too!!!
Killerbee: no im not.. idiot

naruto: wahhaaha the earth shaking again!
Killabee: tchh enemy...
kabuto: so we here again deidara.
deidara: i make a c4 hmmm
madara:.... ZETSUS! ATTACK!!!!!!!!
ZETSU: WAHHHHHHHHHHH aRHGHGHHHHHHHHHHHH
sasuke: so we here...
sasuke:: naruto? is here? im gonna finish him!
madara: good good...!!! rise my apprentice!
sasuke: what is you biding my master?
Madara: find the 8, and 9 tailed and bring here!!
sasuke: yes my master
madara: RememBer the Dark side alway with YOU!
sasuke: yes my master....
Naruto: sasuke??


END

 

[KASTAWAY]

I DONT KNOW IF THIS HAS BEENM SAID

i have a feeling that a large part of madara's army of zetu's will be clones of the the died Uchiha clan, madara has a lot of eyes stored up. and zetu can make perfact clones chakra and all, so if madara puts these eyes into he zetu's the could use the eye to there full Potential. a legion of uchiha would create a few issues for the allied forces.

with what naruto is facing he must show a skill level he has yet to show

 

[Sennin Jinchuuriki]

I DONT KNOW IF THIS HAS BEENM SAID

i have a feeling that a large part of madara's army of zetu's will be clones of the the died Uchiha clan, madara has a lot of eyes stored up. and zetu can make perfact clones chakra and all, so if madara puts these eyes into he zetu's the could use the eye to there full Potential. a legion of uchiha would create a few issues for the allied forces.

with what naruto is facing he must show a skill level he has yet to show

That can happen but Madara doesn't have so many eyes in store. Just like you said may be Madara has been saving all those Sharingans to use it to make his own Uchiha army but then how can he do it even Zetsu with Sharingans will only be like 100 and we know that there are 100000 clone Zetsu(not sure about the number).

 

[KASTAWAY]

That can happen but Madara doesn't have so many eyes in store. Just like you said may be Madara has been saving all those Sharingans to use it to make his own Uchiha army but then how can he do it even Zetsu with Sharingans will only be like 100 and we know that there are 100000 clone Zetsu(not sure about the number).

Well they can clone what ever ninja they come in contact with, so they may just copy the ninja they battle against on the battle field, or they will copy the dead akisisuki(ms) members, or the kages, but there ability to make perfact copys will be used in some way, but we have no idea how many Uchiha eyes he has, from that wall its enough to create major hell. remember the could only be stopped by the senju

 

[Alkad]

it's all about senju this, senju that. But why not at least half of them being Madara clones?
or are Madara's techniques that hard to master for zetsu to be useful like that?

seems like madara does have a lot of respect for the first hokage

 

[Omningan]

ill try to keep this brief.

kabuto -
i like what was said about him coming from nothing.
he is an amazing man to be where he is now.
he is mixing with the celebs!
naruto, sasuke, madara, and kabuto.
look at these names he must be compared with.
kabuto is way better than any of you give him credit for.
and it WILL come out, you'll see.

sasuke-
sasuke is a taker.
he has been saved countless times.
he plays above his own position, and if not for the support of others he would be long gone. hell, imo bee killed him 2x.
he is DEF a force to be reckoned with, and i see him in the end game without a doubt.
my only hope for sasuke is that he can finally ditch the hatred in his heart and embrace those that love him and want the best for him.

naruto-
naruto is like a god now.
naruto is the chakra so6p now like i said in my earlier post, which no one responded to
naruto will make everything alright, and i cant wait to see him topple adversity and crush the threat of war and death. i hope it will be before too many innocent, good people suffer.

madara-
tobi is madara.
there is a slim chance in hell that he isn't but frankly that would have to be like the most gigantic plot twist ever. more likely is some kind of trick to his identity. i say that he is madara, but maybe its not his original body, or maybe there is something else to it.
but if you read my post about madara/tobi and all the examples i cited of proof, youd see that trying to make tobi NOT madara, would be one of the hardest twists to pull off, ever. if you want to keep some hope or fantasy that tobi isnt madara, then go ahead, but know that youre shooting into the dark and are more than likely gonna be wrong.

itachi-
itachi is the man, he did what he could with what he was given.
it was a crappy role he was put into, but he embraced it, and did evil deeds anyways.
madara was quoted saying something to sasuke that I will quote here
"the man who cried tears of blood as he smothered his emotions and killed his brethren."
itachis father wanted to rebel against konoha, konoha wanted to kill the uchiha..
and everyone looked to itachi to do something about it.
he had to deal with something that none of us could ever really understand.
its way worse than 9th inning, bases loaded, down by 1, 2 outs, 2 strikes.
nothing we can even imagine can compare to having to choose between one's family and one's country. he was in between a rock and a hard place, and did the best he could.
he did a great job.
he held madara off.
he prevented the uchiha rebellion.
he set up sasuke to become a strong man.

and jabz, he didnt show sasuke love.
he gave him something else... he gave him hate.
love can make you weak, and itachi couldnt afford to take that chance.
sasuke must be strong and itachi knew that.
he knew that sasuke would need to be guaranteed strong, so he did what he had to do, and made himself an object of sasuke's hatred. itachi is a legendary hero and a mass murderer. what are you gonna do? "thems the breaks"

in the end, its not about what techs you have and its not about how you got them
IT IS about what you do with them, what your intent is.
THAT is the only difference that really matters when you consider comparing any two individuals.

rinnengan, rasengan, chidori, kage bunshin, sharingan, mangekyou, sage mode, edo tensei.... thats all just a bunch of names for peoples abilities to influence the future.

the only thing that really matters, is, what did they do with it?
what harm has naruto caused anyone with his powers? none, actually.
he has done nothing but help everyone in need that he meets.
what harm has sasuke caused anyone with his powers? a ton, actually.
he has killed his brother(itachi), shamed his teacher (kakashi), killed a misled patriot (danzo), back stabbed his teacher (orochimaru), tried to capture and harm a really cool, innocent dude (killerbee), hurt sakura in more ways than i even care to get into at this point, and has managed to estrange the only REAL friend he has ever had(naruto).

so when we go saying who we like and whos awesome and whos not, lets think about these things before we decide...

as always, let me know what you think.
i dont write this stuff to talk to myself, ya know.

 

[EternalMangekyouRinnegan]

seems like madara does have a lot of respect for the first hokage

Wėll, its obvious. Madara and the first are exactly like the sons of SO6P.
One who believed in peace by love and the other one who believe in peace by power.
They were destined to be rivals just like their next generation - Sasuke and Naruto. We will see who will win. Senju ancestor - Hoshirama - Naruto or Uchiha ancestor - Madara - Sasuke.

 

[grhb]

damn, kabuto has something more up his sleeve, next he's probably gonna revive his long lost brother harry potter

Oh lol now o get it. Harry's affinity with snake (no gay intended)

 

[mjtuvok]

Nice posts omningan…
Nice posts warlock tigerwolf…
Just spent quality time with the family…but heck yea im back and thinking.
Guys, if we could just simplify what we have to say i believe - the better.
Let us invite as many ideas as we can.

You do read poems, poetry that is..or prose or any form of literature..then you know what is fiction and what is true.

.
See omningan…you sound like kabuto…speak your mind and not the facts or redirects from the manga. You are scientific…I like that, but man…this is fiction…and do not be too assertive…you are scaring away beautiful minds.
I admire Warlock Tigerwolf’s wider perspective this time…he seems to consider no boundaries of what a manga literature is.
Kishi and mugi are lol for this…but sure they appreciate our intellectual discussions hehe…

But one thing I would like to counter with warlocks pred is re kabuto as the ultimate villain…
Nah..it will be sasuke…
Going back to expound a bit…the culture we are dealing with is fond of seeing “losing by total defeat and with pride” or “accepting defeat through hara-kiri with intact dignity” and “winning it all by savoring the sweetness of victory”

Kabuto is not worthy of this scheme…he is a traitor bastard. He can’t stand alone…like currently that he hides under the shadow of madara…that is why he is “WEAK”—he is alone (remember no man is an island???—but hellyeah…kabuto is now a monster).
HERE…Naruto’s character is exemplary…he is with everyone…”HE HAS THIS MYSTERIOUS POWER TO BEFRIEND EVERY PERSON HE MEETS”. That is why he is protected…that is why he is wanted by all…FOR GOD’S SAKE --- HE IS THE 4TH’S SON!!! Don’t you guys like minato????
Naruto is not naruto with the kyuubi. NARUTO IS NARUTO because he is our hero. He is a genius that no one knows where this wisdom and power comes from. It is not a question of Naruto working hard to be what he is now..nor the gifts were laid in his path..we just have to accept it.

Omningan…sasuke is sasuke---I see we settled this.
Kabuto is still not kabuto.

Now Naruto is Naruto.

I pity those who cling to developing characters…but I could be wrong…my naivete or our being naïve is what makes this forum great…

For those kabuto nuthuggers..Naruto and sasuke haters…no offense…just a friendly exchange

Kabuto will be a part of history…
NARUTO AND SASUKE IS EQUAL TO “DESTINY”!!!
“HEROES AND GENUISES ARE BORN ---“NOT EVER AND NEVER BE MADE” HEHE

+++++++++++++++++++++++=

WHOAAAA.....SOMEBODY STOP THE MERRI-GO-ROUND AND LET ME OFF.
IM definitely getting dizzy at all that stuff you just said.....LOL....

 

[jabznaruto]

thats a valid point u put up.
but.. Sasuke has advantage of uchiha clan which is a gift of his blood, all his jutsus like kirin, summons, fire techs etc are all gift or helped by others to evolve. Sasuke is genius but others are no losers, even naruto was always saved by kyubi many times, his tricks are also not original but better than his predecessors.
People like kabuto make difference, people who have nothing and rise to heights. Kabuto had nothing, he was a mere kid adopted by a medical nin of konoha. No-ones rising to that mark are plausible, KAbuto's medical techs surpass tsunade as acknowledged by tsunade during the sannin battle. his mind and composure were his main assets, even oro admitted it when he sent him to meet sasuke in hospital. Now that he has all dead akatsuki members he's strong. With this new edo tensei he can have the summons have their mind so that they can fight to the fullest but he even can override their will as seen in case of deidara.
i dont say he'll become ultimate villain but others here underestimate him.
Sasuke always thought of himself never cared for others, unlike naruto. He is always driven by his selfish motives and arrogant head. Even the techs he's now using are itachi's gift. Even after awaking the mangekyo these techs do not sow up as mentioned by itachi, itachi got them after killing all uchiha, sasuke got them for free like everything. He's good but not that good always getting rescued, like zetsu and all and winning battles already in his favour like itachi's and deidara's.
Kabuto has something great up his sleeve, he'll not go down so easily as he has all the 5 akatsuki and the 6th person. All of them are no chickens as seen throughout the series, they were the most powerful shinobi's around, theyalone could change the pahse

well said arjun..well said..that's the way to put up your flag.
i acknowledge your defense toward kabuto, same goes with omningan.
you could sense i really don't like kabuto right...and i make it to the point that i begin with the roots.
hell yeah he is a monster now. you and omningan are correct to say that the possibilities are wide open for kabuto. you said said kabuto started from "NOTHING", then he work his way up levels to be a monster now.

because kabuto started dark, i guess he will end up in darkness. his darkness is different than that of sasuke's darkness. sasuke's darkness is through hatred...i don't know if it is fitting to say that kabuto's dark image is because of selfishness--self interests--this is a very weak foundation. look at oro...watch hiruko...

sasuke's gift was not his fault, dark that is uchiha blood. as omningan said sasuke is a taker--deep.
sasuke has taken everything we could consider his--attention. he has not given anything yet--considerable big things that are...
itachi bred his hatred...itachi made sasuke hate him for a reason which still is one of the mysteries of this manga.
but itachi did love his brother--he didn't KILL him. the absolute end of hate is death.
so, itachi taught us LOVE...i just hope this is what warlock tigerwolf is trying to convey.

and regarding to as "who is who?" -- warlock is correct in saying anything is possible in this manga world.

who is itachi? i would want to see a Naruto Movie highlighting this great man. AND OMNINGAN, I THINK YOUR MIND IS DISTORTED WHEN YOU SAY THAT "LOVE" COULD MAKE YOU WEAK. please expound, if you are refering to a pycho-sexual thing... i guess you are not in this manga...LOVE is what itachi gave to us in this manga.. not only to sasuke.

and omningan, what can you do with nothing in the first place??? what did kabuto have in the first place??? no offense man..i would like to know.

but you are right, kabuto has bunch of jutsus not his own now...and he could do a lot of hell out of them.

im not making you off balanced by asking what kabuto had from the start...i just want what legacy could he offer at the end.
think about it then..and yes i am talking to you not to myself.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

I think there's an important factor on the appearance of Tobi and Madara that some of us are forgetting.

Spoiler

Tobi's hair is brown, if you go by the anime, while Madara and every other uchiha's hair is jet black. In fact tobi's hair looks more like yamato's than madara's.

Yes when they grew up some characters changed their clothes. if tobi is madara he's been grown up for the better part of a century.

Sakura changed her hair, and yes even hinata grew her hair out long.

The rest of the characters in the show, no, they haven't changed their appearance that drastically.... ever.

So Kankuro changed the design of his purple makeup.... whoopdie doo, it's still purple makeup, it's still in an intricate design on his face.

by that logic Jiraya is proof that tobi could be madara, because when he went into sage mode he changed his appearance and looked more like a frog.

yet we could still recognize him as jiraya from any angle.

Frankly, I'm tired of this debate already, people keep requiring me to repeat myself constantly which is something I disdain. So I will say this for the third and final time, and anyone who wants to continue this debate with me, can refer to this statement and consider the matter done.

"I AGREE THERE IS A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE THAT TOBI IS MADARA UCHIHA. THERE IS HOWEVER A FOOTHILL OF EVIDENCE THAT TOBI IS LYING ABOUT BEING MADARA UCHIHA. WHILE THE REASONABLE PART OF MY BRAIN DOES SAY YES TOBI IS MOST LIKELY MADARA UCHIHA. MY GUT REFUSES TO SUBMIT AND CONTINUES TO INSIST THAT TOBI IS LYING ABOUT BEING MADARA UCHIHA."

Thank you, and good night.

Warlock Tigerwolf, you stated that no character's appearance has changed drastically ever since the advent of the Naruto world as we know it. Here we have Madara, who operated under the alias Tobi (taking on a slightly different presence in the meantime), but only recently has made himself known to the ninja world once more as "Madara Uchiha," which in the Naruto world is essentially synonymous to a literal "monster" or "beast."

I mean no further to inflame this debate, and I wholly respect your position as to Madara's identity, yet I merely wish to ask you, don't you think it would have been prudent for Madara to completely change his appearance, taking into consideration the entire world thought he was dead? If, after his intense battle with Hashirama Senju, he kept walking the planet like the same recognizable Uchiha Madara, in my opinion he would have been hunted relentlessly by all five great nations. And I'm sure that's not something he would have wanted on his hands. Also, if we do some basic math, we can infer that Madara remained hiding in Akatsuki's shadow for 64 years, resurfacing only during the Nine-Tailed Fox's attack on Konoha, which he was obviously behind. During such a long period of time, even if he did not want it, Madara's appearance would have been altered to some degree, but we can see that is indeed what he desired because he would not have begun wearing the classic mask otherwise.

There is still much to be revealed, and I understand your position fully, and I'm sure many agree with you, that there are things that certainly seem "off" about Madara's character in general. But my main point in writing this was simply to ask you that one question of mine.

 

[Hyperion]

Tobi is a good boy.

My prediction for the Upcoming Chapter...

-More Talk, less action!!!

 

[silenceofthelambs]

Tobi

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Madara Uchiha

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Seems like this titanic debate might finally be resolved soon...at last.

 

[Omningan]

love and kind words can make you weak.
i shouldnt have to explain that simple truth.
if you dont know that the door always swings both ways, then maybe you will in time.
love can make you weak and/or stronger
and hate can too. hate has made sasuke strong, susanoo is strength.
but in his heart he is weak. he is blinded by his hate. he cant see the harm he is doing.

love has made naruto strong, but he still has weaknesses, he will sacrifice his life for sasuke, if need be. he would give up his life for an undeserving, evil nutwad(sasuke)
he loves yamato and his friends so much, that he just believes them without wondering for himself why the hell the world just turned upside down. trust can be a weakness, even though its foundation is love.

dont think that love is this all powerful, unbeatable force.
i would say that it is the most amazing thing that there is, and its the key to happiness and everything else, but it does not make us invulnerable, impermeable, and super strong at all times. sometimes the higher you go, the more unsteady you are.
sometimes the further you go, the more lost you become. sometimes caring too much is a bad thing. there is a rule called moderation. if you dont know about it, look it up. because it governs everything. nothing is exempt from the rule of moderation.

like i said, the door can always swing both ways, it just depends on the individual and the situation. good and bad? thats just words we use after the fact. they are just opinions of those left around to judge the outcome.

and anything is not possible.
naruto is not possibly sasuke....
kakashi is not possibly a bad ninja.
jiraiya is not possibly not dead.
etc etc
so dont go thinking that nothing is certain, because if anything is certain (and it is) then it is that though there is uncertainty in the world and in fantasy, we have to have somewhere to stand, if we want to take in the sights. (i.e. a solid belief structure from which we can understand and interpret our world.) fantasy or real.

and itachi did not show sasuke much love. as kids maybe he did ( and really not even then, he was constantly ignoring sasuke) (lord cant blame him, he had his own friggin problems, right?), but certainly he did not show sasuke any love during or after that horrible night.

he loved sasuke, yes, thats why he spared him, and why he freed him from orochimaru, but there is a difference between having love for someone, and giving love to that person.
he didnt hug sasuke and tell him everything was gonna be alright.
he didnt team up with him and teach him how to control his sharingan.
he kicked him in the gut, punched him the face, and he shot ameratsu at him...
and why??
he purposefully led sasuke into hating him.

if he loved sasuke sooooo much, than why would he force him to have so much hate in his life? hate for his own brother? thats just sick man. maybe he did the right thing in the end, but there are some serious issues there, that have nothing to do with love. what impression did sasuke have the whole time? (itachi hates me, I hate itachi)
whether itachi had love for sasuke or not, sasuke didnt see it that way until it was way too late. the hatred had already forced him into killing his own brother.
and not to mention opening him up to madara's coercion and leading him down the path of evil. death and dismay get no one, no where.

and as for kabuto, im not sure why you are hung up on what he had at the beginning.
he was a super smart medical ninja at the beginning.
who fooled everyone around into thinking he was a student, like them.
and he was orochimarus right hand man... why wont you give him some credit?
if he sucked at life, would orochimaru even have bothered letting him live and be so close to him? no, he woulda thrown kabuto in that dungeon with the rest of the trash.
he didnt because he knew, like you should know, that kabuto is awesome.

do you hate him that much, that you cant see what an amazing ninja that kabuto
a. has been
b. still is
c. will always be
??

I want to throw a challenge out to all the guests reading this thread.
Create a login and converse with us. We could use some fresh input.
I'd like to hear what some of you think of our conversations, and what you think of this episode and whats to come.

 

[Warlock Tigerwolf]

Spoiler

I think there's an important factor on the appearance of Tobi and Madara that some of us are forgetting.

Warlock Tigerwolf, you stated that no character's appearance has changed drastically ever since the advent of the Naruto world as we know it. Here we have Madara, who operated under the alias Tobi (taking on a slightly different presence in the meantime), but only recently has made himself known to the ninja world once more as "Madara Uchiha," which in the Naruto world is essentially synonymous to a literal "monster" or "beast."

I mean no further to inflame this debate, and I wholly respect your position as to Madara's identity, yet I merely wish to ask you, don't you think it would have been prudent for Madara to completely change his appearance, taking into consideration the entire world thought he was dead? If, after his intense battle with Hashirama Senju, he kept walking the planet like the same recognizable Uchiha Madara, in my opinion he would have been hunted relentlessly by all five great nations. And I'm sure that's not something he would have wanted on his hands. Also, if we do some basic math, we can infer that Madara remained hiding in Akatsuki's shadow for 64 years, resurfacing only during the Nine-Tailed Fox's attack on Konoha, which he was obviously behind. During such a long period of time, even if he did not want it, Madara's appearance would have been altered to some degree, but we can see that is indeed what he desired because he would not have begun wearing the classic mask otherwise.

There is still much to be revealed, and I understand your position fully, and I'm sure many agree with you, that there are things that certainly seem "off" about Madara's character in general. But my main point in writing this was simply to ask you that one question of mine.

I see where you are comming from silence. We have had this debate ourselves in the past.

to answer your two part question

A) Wouldn't it have been prudent for him to change his appearance. Perhaps for a time, yet if we assume some of the recounted stories of him are true. Then we get into another threard about how often his appearance changes. tobi for the fox, (different mask), original to meet itachi, original to meet kisame, tobi to be introduced. Durring the middle periods nobody would have believed it to be the real Madara Uchiha so why change back? If we also consider that other characters in that time frame, i.e. Kakashi, Kureni, Asuma, Gai, Hiruzen, maintained the same appearance (relatively) until current, then it brings the question of appearance back once more. To be clear I understand changing his appearance out of prudence, and perhaps if the mountain of evidence that says Tobi is Madara is true, then that may be used to explain it.

B) over 64 - 80 years age would have changed his appearance. (if I understood your chronology correctly 64 years at the kyuubi attack and it's ben 15-16 years since then so I rounded up). If we go by this logic, his appearance would have changed much like hiruzen's. He'd have grown much older with age spots, and wrinkles showing, a smaller frame, and more bony hands. Even if he had somehow aquired longevity this would still be the case over such a long time span.

At least that's my position on it.

I'll admit my recollection on the hair color seems to have been in error. Your pictures definitely show tobi having black hair. I still could have sworn it was brown, however I can admit to being wrong.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

I see where you are comming from silence. We have had this debate ourselves in the past.

to answer your two part question

A) Wouldn't it have been prudent for him to change his appearance. Perhaps for a time, yet if we assume some of the recounted stories of him are true. Then we get into another threard about how often his appearance changes. tobi for the fox, (different mask), original to meet itachi, original to meet kisame, tobi to be introduced. Durring the middle periods nobody would have believed it to be the real Madara Uchiha so why change back? If we also consider that other characters in that time frame, i.e. Kakashi, Kureni, Asuma, Gai, Hiruzen, maintained the same appearance (relatively) until current, then it brings the question of appearance back once more. To be clear I understand changing his appearance out of prudence, and perhaps if the mountain of evidence that says Tobi is Madara is true, then that may be used to explain it.

B) over 64 - 80 years age would have changed his appearance. (if I understood your chronology correctly 64 years at the kyuubi attack and it's ben 15-16 years since then so I rounded up). If we go by this logic, his appearance would have changed much like hiruzen's. He'd have grown much older with age spots, and wrinkles showing, a smaller frame, and more bony hands. Even if he had somehow aquired longevity this would still be the case over such a long time span.

At least that's my position on it.

I'll admit my recollection on the hair color seems to have been in error. Your pictures definitely show tobi having black hair. I still could have sworn it was brown, however I can admit to being wrong.

Very nice post. That's how I always approached the matter of Tobi and Madara, that at one point in time he would have found it necessary to completely change his appearance to erase all traces of his existence from the ninja world ("I was forgotten by everyone, even history itself"). Perhaps even keeping up one "persona," if you will, might have been too risky, so he continued reverting from his Tobi form to his Madara form, and vice versa.

I took the integer 64 because those were the number of years Madara remained completely hidden from the world before resurfacing to extract the Nine-Tails from Kushina Uzumaki. I suppose you could add on 16 more considering nobody knew he was alive until he declared himself "Madara Uchiha" to the Five Kage. Going off what you said, since his appearance would, naturally, have changed over such a large span of time, it could be some sort of an immortality jutsu he acquired down the line, which keeps his appearance deceptively young (or perhaps even the other way around) to those he meets.

 

[4bdN]

the SOSP only had 2 eyes, y would Tobi/ Madara need more eyeholes in his mask if his ultimate gaol is 2 become the next SOSP ?