[Predictions] Naruto Manga 591 Discussion and 592 Predictions

[YoungShinobi]

he must have battled tobirama before to know the handseals

 

[Eisenpelz]

he must have battled tobirama before to know the handseals

not really, he just had to see tobirama using that jutsu and then observe it with sharingan.
doesn't necessarily mean they fought each other...
since they were at least some time kinda allys (remember senju&uchiha est. konoha?)

and furthermore, that doesn't even mean, tobirama knew the seals to undo edo-tensei-contract as one of its puppets.
my opinion:
madara has only analyzed the jutsu in his ways, and thanks to sharingan he found a (probably unknown) weak spot and invented the seals to undo the contract by himself.
just because u invented sth (tobirama), doesn't mean it can't be evolved further...
best example is how orochimaru/kabuto messed around with edo-tensei.

 

[KnowledgeGod]

Family Tree Theory:

Uzumaki Clan =Sage Of 6 Paths/Father

Hyuuga Clan = Wife/Mother

Uchiha and Senju Clan = Kids

I posted this a while back just wanted to repost! Lol

 

[TheObserver]

Interesting to see immortality Madara and no longer Edo-madara.i now see that Kishi is really a good writer. No one ever predicted something like this. And that was another way to replenish Tsunade's chakra. I believe Tsunade has more secret and more forbiben jutsu that she will use against Immortality-madara.

 

[TheObserver]

I think it is about time that Kurama explains a few things to Naruto.
I'm sure he has some valuable information about the Sage of the six Paths, the Rinnegan and even Madara.
The tailed beasts must be around for more than 100 years (Madara fought Hashirama 80 years ago from the mangas present day), if the myth is true since the advent of the ninja world. Why shouldn't he have accumulated massive knowledge about it?
I wouldn't even be bothered with a bit of talk no jutsu from Kurama.

 

[daviddragon]

it's good chapter but next chapter is better

 

[lion fang master]

he must have battled tobirama before to know the handseals

I really doubt that. 2nd hokage was popular during his time from those who are mentioning his name, we didnt see any 1st kage mention or anybody while he was with the first. kabuto lied to tobi or gave half a truth, there was a seal shown at the end of there conversation like I mentioned b4 that is probably what madara is talking about and also dont forget at one point after there agreement both sidee (senju & uchiha)came together after they settled there beef so it could have been something the uchiha helped developed. Even though hashirama was the first hokage but from what we have seen there always a penel leaders he could have been on there till he went rouge.

 

[a thousand years of death]

the kages are really in trouble now. someone is going to have to pull off some massive trump card in order to get madara to panic let alone finish him off.

how are they going to deal with him?

 

[squigles]

The Maxwills guy mentioned that Tobirama invented the reaper death seal. and i was correcting him thats why i said what i had to say. Here is the evidence that shows what he said

Yeah I understand that, but I wanted to post the correct information anyway.

Nahh if they were then they all should have gone against kabuto's will which they could not.And if they had full consciousness then the Edo Tensei would be useless

The reason why they can't go against Kabuto is because their will is taken away. So even though a few of them wanted to do something other than fight for Kabuto (it even talks about this as the war plays out), they could not do so because Kabuto bound his will to the talismans which overrode theirs, forcing them to do what he wanted them to do.

Yes it did Kishi included the part where the tuschikage mentions his consciousness coming back. What ever kishi says in his story one will not change it. it is because in the, the story he is God. We can't make up what he says. Take a good look at this page and if you don't get it i ask if you can read it again or check other translations

Yeah, which could be a translation error, they've been known to happen. Even if it really did say 'consciousness' it could still be an error on Kishi's part, those have happened too. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a fundamental difference between 'consciousness' and 'will.' All of the people Kabuto summoned with Edo Tensei were fully aware of their actions and what was going on around them.

Yet you even said yourself that their wills were bound by Kabuto.

1. Will/wil - Verb: Intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen: "he was doing what the saint willed".

2. con·scious·ness - Noun: The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
The awareness or perception of something by a person.

So can you see how some of the people summoned by Edo Tensei were conscious, but still bound by Kabuto's will? It's either a mistranslation or a grammatical error.

It was explained by orochimaru that the soul/ spirit of the person disappears once he has taken over the body. If the soul is left then that must mean that orochimaru's old body is still alive. Which doesn't make sense. Also the use of word logic at every post you post is annoying

Just to drive this point home one final time, let's assume that Knowledge God is correct, that the soul, spirit, and mind were all separate things. Now, let's say that Orochimaru went to switch bodies with someone. What happens if he takes his spirit to the new body, but leaves his mind and his soul behind?

There would literally be zero point to that technique because if the old body was dying (which is why he would switch to begin with) then his soul and mind would die too. Having his spirit in a new body would do nothing without the mind and soul (if they were separate things).

Instead, the jutsu works by switching EVERYTHING to the new body, overriding all existing things. This way the new body becomes the same for the user as the old body was. This is why the technical points are irrelevant, even if you could explain the difference between a mind, a soul, and a spirit.

I really doubt that. 2nd hokage was popular during his time from those who are mentioning his name, we see any 1st kage mention or while he was with the first. kabuto lied to tobi or gave half a truth, there a seal shown at the end of there conversation like I mentioned b4 that is probably what madara is talking about and also forget at one point after there agreement both allied after they settled there beef so it could have something the uchiha helped developed. Even though hashirama was the first hokage from wha t we have seen there is a penel he could have been on there till he went rouge.

Edo Madara never met Tobi after he was summoned by Kabuto, so he would have no knowledge of Kabuto showing Tobi how to release Edo Tensei. In addition, you're forgetting that one of the most basic functions of the Sharingan is to analyze and copy how techniques work. Itachi himself trapped Kabuto in a genjutsu and forced him to show Itachi the hand signs to release Edo Tensei.

Madara, at any time during his life, could have learned everything there is to know about Edo Tensei, either through battle, from intel by a 3rd party, or through the corpse of Tobirama. It's not a plot hole for Madara to have this knowledge, and just because it's not explicitly explained at this point in time, doesn't mean it never will be.

 

[Isabel]

Dan + Tsunade = Itachi + Sasuke äh die 2 szenen hintereinander is dann doch irgendwie langweilig die sehn total gleich aus -.-

 

[KnowledgeGod]

Yeah I understand that, but I wanted to post the correct information anyway.



The reason why they can't go against Kabuto is because their will is taken away. So even though a few of them wanted to do something other than fight for Kabuto (it even talks about this as the war plays out), they could not do so because Kabuto bound his will to the talismans which overrode theirs, forcing them to do what he wanted them to do.



Yeah, which could be a translation error, they've been known to happen. Even if it really did say 'consciousness' it could still be an error on Kishi's part, those have happened too. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a fundamental difference between 'consciousness' and 'will.' All of the people Kabuto summoned with Edo Tensei were fully aware of their actions and what was going on around them.

Yet you even said yourself that their wills were bound by Kabuto.

1. Will/wil - Verb: Intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen: "he was doing what the saint willed".

2. con·scious·ness - Noun: The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
The awareness or perception of something by a person.

So can you see how some of the people summoned by Edo Tensei were conscious, but still bound by Kabuto's will? It's either a mistranslation or a grammatical error.



Just to drive this point home one final time, let's assume that Knowledge God is correct, that the soul, spirit, and mind were all separate things. Now, let's say that Orochimaru went to switch bodies with someone. What happens if he takes his spirit to the new body, but leaves his mind and his soul behind?

There would literally be zero point to that technique because if the old body was dying (which is why he would switch to begin with) then his soul and mind would die too. Having his spirit in a new body would do nothing without the mind and soul (if they were separate things).

Instead, the jutsu works by switching EVERYTHING to the new body, overriding all existing things. This way the new body becomes the same for the user as the old body was. This is why the technical points are irrelevant, even if you could explain the difference between a mind, a soul, and a spirit.



Edo Madara never met Tobi after he was summoned by Kabuto, so he would have no knowledge of Kabuto showing Tobi how to release Edo Tensei. In addition, you're forgetting that one of the most basic functions of the Sharingan is to analyze and copy how techniques work. Itachi himself trapped Kabuto in a genjutsu and forced him to show Itachi the hand signs to release Edo Tensei.

Madara, at any time during his life, could have learned everything there is to know about Edo Tensei, either through battle, from intel by a 3rd party, or through the corpse of Tobirama. It's not a plot hole for Madara to have this knowledge, and just because it's not explicitly explained at this point in time, doesn't mean it never will be.

Don't miss quote my work! I never said the soul, mind, and spirit is seperated like you stated. I said the soul and spirit/mind are into two parts. Orochimaru original body is not alive unless it's in a lab on life support. Reason being is he transferred his spirit/mind into the new hosts body. What I'm saying is that Orochimaru original body is brain dead, if you don't have the mind to think, that means you can't eat or breathe. Another thing is Orochimaru original body wasn't dying he just was afraid of getting old, he feared death in that fashion because he was eager to learn everything Justus and etc. I think the only reason Orochimaru was sick is because the hosts wasn't compatible with the stress and expirements he was putting them through. I'm not sure if I'm right about my theories it's just my perception and understanding of the story. I'm not a Orochimaru fan but I'm positively confident that he was way smarter than Kabuto. Orochimaru was able to leave Akatsuki and survive that's says alot knowing the talent of shinobi's they had. Logic!

 

[Naranu]

i'm giving it a one...but only cause MAdara is a D***** bag for canceling out the Edo Tensei on himself...freikin loser...otherwise it was a good chap, but Madara seriously needs to d-i-e DIE!!!

 

[SNaK3]

QUICK QUESTION.....don't you find it weird that ONLY half of the 9 tails' fox chakra was sealed in Naruto and the other half was sealed in Minato? I mean Kishi has come up with all sorts of B/S jutsus and theories to keep Madara in the game, so if there's a hole in using the edo tensei jutsu like Madara just showed us, would it be a surprise to find there's also a hole in using the Death Reaper seal jutsu? In which it would allow all 4 hokages that are sealed to come back and protect their HOME one last time?

 

[gidboat]

I hope Naruto enter Sage mode + Kurama to help the KAGES defeat Madara

 

[Sage89]

IM not a madara fanboy so here it goes. Madaera knows ET because he is the lord of Uchiha who founded the hidden leaf WITH the Senju. With such a aresenal the TWO CLANS WORKED TOGETHER BOTH SENJU AND UCHIHA TO SECURE THE BORDERS with would become the LAND IF FIRE. UNITY AT SOME POINT EXISTED 1.THE TRUCE it could have lasted months or years so in time collaboration would occur. EX TOKA SENJU who was world renown as a master practitioner of Genjutsu even by uchiha wouldn't you want your comrades to be as well suited for defending a home village based on stability and peace. Madara could have even agreed with tobirama in labeling a kinjutsu due to him viewing of the meteor saying it was self sacrifice jutsu killing all on the field dead just chimming in first post

 

[Eisenpelz]

Don't miss quote my work! I never said the soul, mind, and spirit is seperated like you stated. I said the soul and spirit/mind are into two parts. Orochimaru original body is not alive unless it's in a lab on life support. Reason being is he transferred his spirit/mind into the new hosts body. What I'm saying is that Orochimaru original body is brain dead, if you don't have the mind to think, that means you can't eat or breathe. Another thing is Orochimaru original body wasn't dying he just was afraid of getting old, he feared death in that fashion because he was eager to learn everything Justus and etc. I think the only reason Orochimaru was sick is because the hosts wasn't compatible with the stress and expirements he was putting them through. I'm not sure if I'm right about my theories it's just my perception and understanding of the story. I'm not a Orochimaru fan but I'm positively confident that he was way smarter than Kabuto. Orochimaru was able to leave Akatsuki and survive that's says alot knowing the talent of shinobi's they had. Logic!

i think i do not disagree this time ;-)
but your perception puts up one big question in my mind about orochimarus reincarnation jutsu.
is it really orochimaru after switching bodies or is it just a copy?

ok it was not really your perception, its more the jutsu itself that lets me put up this question....anyways...the answer seems more like an opinion, hard to find hard facts for this.

 

[zushikikato]

Oh my God! We really need Goku now..

 

[squigles]

Don't miss quote my work! I never said the soul, mind, and spirit is seperated like you stated. I said the soul and spirit/mind are into two parts.

What's the difference? Two parts = two different things. The fact of the matter is that even if you were right, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Orochimaru would need a mind, soul, or spirit in order to be OROCHIMARU.

Derp.

Your original argument was that because they are all separate things, that Orochimaru could still be brought back by Kabuto because not all of those things were sealed....

 

[hwrdprkns]

This as probably as far-fetched as you could get, but I see Sauske having a change of heart and defeating Madara...

 

[King Cobra]

Madara still here yes! I kne it wasn't the last of him yes yes yes yes
to Tsunade fanboys/girls Dan may have saved here once but sorry unfortunately it's time for her to go I don't see her surviving this one especially since Madara survives"...btw I don't hate Tsunade before I get blasted I just don't see her surviving