Nagato outsmarted/overpowered by Itachi

[Scooby Doo]

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Here itachi says that izanagi was the perfect uchiha eye technique, he says nothing about extra reqirements and during the whole chapter he doesnt mention senju dna, but he is speaking of the uchihas using it, and he uses the word 'you' the whole time, which generally implies that any Uchiha could use izanagi.But this debate is going on for too long now, we cannot convince each other, you think I'm stupid, I think youre wrong.

 

[Sasuno Tsawaki]

Nagato's known weakness is Genjutsu and he's going up against the best genjutsu user on the show/manga that we have seen thus far and also he has Susanoo..."why do you think the Uchiha clan is known by all and feared by all"

Are you retarded Eye to eye genjustu don't work on Nagato since he HAS RENNINGAN!

 

[Scooby Doo]

Are you retarded Eye to eye genjustu don't work on Nagato since he HAS RENNINGAN!

He was caught in Jiraiaya's genjutsu and genjutsu is genjutsu.

 

[uchiha kant i]

itachi is a genius nd wouldn't show anyone his full strength.... so i think he will defeat nagato no matter wat

 

[Scooby Doo]

itachi is a genius nd wouldn't show anyone his full strength.... so i think he will defeat nagato no matter wat

Dont post something like this,you'll get flamed. Itachi has a chance , but wont win no matter what, also you cannot say Nagato wins no matter what. IMO it can go either way. Some people just cant imagine the fight going either way and Itachi defeating Nagato, but thats their problem.

 

[Munboy]

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Here itachi says that izanagi was the perfect uchiha eye technique, he says nothing about extra reqirements and during the whole chapter he doesnt mention senju dna, but he is speaking of the uchihas using it, and he uses the word 'you' the whole time, which generally implies that any Uchiha could use izanagi.But this debate is going on for too long now, we cannot convince each other, you think I'm stupid, I think youre wrong.

Itachi never mentioned Izanagi's requirements because he was just boasting Izanagi and telling its story. That was vital so he could make sense of Izanami, Izanagi's natural counter.

As Izanami was the main topic, he had no reason to divulge into a conversation about Izanagi and its requirements. Tobi on the other hand did as he was - indirectly - asked about Izanagi.

In all: Itachi's story says how grand Izanagi was among the Uchiha clan. It did not at all discredit Tobi's clear and concise description of Izanagi's requirements.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Itachi never mentioned Izanagi's requirements because he was just boasting Izanagi and telling its story. That was vital so he could make sense of Izanami, Izanagi's natural counter.

As Izanami was the main topic, he had no reason to divulge into a conversation about Izanagi and its requirements. Tobi on the other hand did as he was - indirectly - asked about Izanagi.

In all: Itachi's story says how grand Izanagi was among the Uchiha clan. It did not at all discredit Tobi's clear and concise description of Izanagi's requirements.

Ok, we cannot convince each other Youre sure that youre right and I'm sure I am. Lets hope Kishi will show it more clearly (though I understand that from your side Tobi said clearly that izanagi needs senju dna, but I think Itachi's explanation indeed discredits what Tobi said- maybe I'm stupid, I'll apologize if later I'm proven wrong)

 

[iMicLykTyson]

Perhaps because it is close to the Sage's power, the Uchiha needs to be closer to the Sage in body and eyes. Hence the Senju DNA.

Everything's speculation. However one thing is a fact: in all three panels I provided, Tobi explicitly notes that Izanagi is a jutsu only permitted to those with Uchiha and Senju DNA.

By that logic, from an Izanagi user, Itachi isn't permitted to use Izanagi. Although he can use its counter, the Izanami.

1st bold:They are closer to the sage's eyes, can you explain why the body/DNA is needed, because it is an eye tech not one that requires DNA, the DNA only prolongs the effect because Senju are known for their large amount of chakra. Izanagi drains chakra, the DNA helps cover up the need for chakra.

2nd bold: i don't understand what you are trying to say.
The way i think of it is that the DNA completes the technique(Using it to it's full capabilities)

 

[Munboy]

1st bold:They are closer to the sage's eyes, can you explain why the body/DNA is needed, because it is an eye tech not one that requires DNA, the DNA only prolongs the effect because Senju are known for their large amount of chakra. Izanagi drains chakra, the DNA helps cover up the need for chakra.

That's not what's said about the DNA, Tobi is pretty clear.
I see what you mean about the Sharingan being closer to the Sage's eyes. However going by Tobi, I assume Kishi is going with something like this:

- A pure blooded Uchiha with the Sharingan is close to the Sage's eyes.
- An Uchiha who also has Senju DNA alongside their Sharingan are even closer to the Sage's eyes.

If we think about Izanagi, it is an adaptation of the Sage's Creation of all Things jutsu. Izanagi is like a watered down offshoot jutsu. While explaining though, Tobi felt compelled to state that the Sage was a man with Uchiha and Senju Kekkei Genkai in a single being before explaining the jutsu.

So I'm guessing reality altering jutsu, such as Izanagi, require the power of Uchiha and Senju. That's likely why Tobi mentioned it.
The Senju DNA seems to have benefits, however in the context of Izanagi: it is half the requirement.

 

[iMicLykTyson]

That's not what's said about the DNA, Tobi is pretty clear.
I see what you mean about the Sharingan being closer to the Sage's eyes. However going by Tobi, I assume Kishi is going with something like this:

- A pure blooded Uchiha with the Sharingan is close to the Sage's eyes.
- An Uchiha who also has Senju DNA alongside their Sharingan are even closer to the Sage's eyes.

If we think about Izanagi, it is an adaptation of the Sage's Creation of all Things jutsu. Izanagi is like a watered down offshoot jutsu. While explaining though, Tobi felt compelled to state that the Sage was a man with Uchiha and Senju Kekkei Genkai in a single being before explaining the jutsu.

So I'm guessing reality altering jutsu, such as Izanagi, require the power of Uchiha and Senju. That's likely why Tobi mentioned it.
The Senju DNA seems to have benefits, however in the context of Izanagi: it is half the requirement.

1st Bold: i understand what you meant by having both makes you closer, this same logic can apply to Izanagi, having the DNA makes it complete(or close to complete), not having the DNA makes it incomplete but still usable which ties back to using the DNA to prolong it's effect. Izanagi is named a kinjutsu because of the short usage of this skill, if the skill is not used at the right time, Izanagi won't be able to protect the user.
2nd Bold: Izanami is an example of altering reality yet it requires only Sharingan/Uchiha Bloodline.

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Here as you can see it says "Those who couldn't control Hashirama's Powers (DNA) boasted only an Incomplete form of Izanagi"

We can keep arguing about this all day the Manga contradicts itself just leave it at that.

 

[Maunten]

deva path can solo itachi, never mind all 6 paths.

 

[Scooby Doo]

deva path can solo itachi, never mind all 6 paths.

Its been already said, read the posts yes all of them And even Naruto defeated deva path.

 

[lol99]

2nd Bold: Izanami is an example of altering reality yet it requires only Sharingan/Uchiha Bloodline.

?????

Spoiler

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it is only a genjutsu that affects mind. The only similarity between izanagi and izanami is that both cost an eye

 

[Tobirama The Second Fire]

Na itachi uses sealing sword instantly cause he knows Nagatos strong itachi wins

 

[iMicLykTyson]

?????

Spoiler

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it is only a genjutsu that affects mind. The only similarity between izanagi and izanami is that both cost an eye

Izanagi changes destiny, Izanami decides it. They both deal with changing people's reality

 

[lol99]

Izanagi changes destiny, Izanami decides it. They both deal with changing reality

twisting words hmmmm :ice:
you can say what you like it

 

[iMicLykTyson]

twisting words hmmmm :ice:

Not really lol. Izanami basically exposes the truth. It makes people who think their reality is "law" (perfect) realize that no one is perfect and they need to accept that there is room for mistake. Basically it changed their reality which is false into actuality. Correct if I am wrong :shrug:

 

[lol99]

Not really lol. Izanami basically exposes the truth. It makes people who think their reality is "law" (perfect) realize that no one is perfect and they need to accept that there is room for mistake. Basically it changed their reality. Correct if I am wrong :shrug:

it was created for that purpose yes.

But it is a genjutsu in the end it really doesn't affect anything outside the mind. Look at kabuto fighting an illusionary itachi and sasuke. It is a genjutsu in the end at the cost of an eye.
Lol ppl were disappointed expecting a hax move like izanagi but got a genjutsu

 

[iMicLykTyson]

it was created for that purpose yes.

But it is a genjutsu in the end it really doesn't affect anything outside the mind. Look at kabuto fighting an illusionary itachi and sasuke. It is a genjutsu in the end at the cost of an eye.
Lol ppl were disappointed expecting a hax move like izanagi but got a genjutsu

We are not talking about it been a genjutsu we are talking about whether it changes a persons reality or not which it does and also isn't Izanagi also a genjutsu?

 

[Kira was Righteous]

Not really lol. Izanami basically exposes the truth. It makes people who think their reality is "law" (perfect) realize that no one is perfect and they need to accept that there is room for mistake. Basically it changed their reality. Correct if I am wrong :shrug:

Izanami is a technique used to counter Izangi primarily that is what it was designed for.It can be used also against people who cant accept themselves and try to be something there not like Kabuto.Kabuto couldn't accept himself and thats why Izanami worked on him.

Izanami is useless in combat it was said by Itachi himself it takes a lot of prep time and as far as i know Nagato accepts who he is he maybe has a god complex(not really surprising looking at what he could do and has done) but hes never wanted to be a different person or absorbed other peoples powers etc