Nagato can easily break Tsukuyomi

[Champ]

He has the illusionary technique Tsukuyomi it shouldnt be able to be countered

Tsukuyomi one shot and its over

Hashirama must of told Madara not to use Tsukuyomi as it was unfair the kyubbi yes but Tsukuyomi unfair

Once we see the fight then we will know

Yeah but he broke out only because Itachi wanted him to , and wanted him to push to his limits so that Orochimaru would come out and then Itachi could seal Oro and then awaken sasuke's mangekyou then die and Sasuke becoming a hero killing him. You should read the manga too...But yeah practically Sasuke escaped Tsukoyomi, but not because he could break it just because Itachi let him. How is it so hard to understand? And the manga page both you and I linked, nowhere says that a clansmen can break out from tsukoyomi, but it says that tsukoyomi cannot be beaten. Its a fact. Admit it please.

Sasuke a clansem of Itachi broke out of Tsukuyomi wether you wanna believe it or not

 

[Rikodu senin madara]

Nagato posseses superior doujutsu, if he can't then neither can so6p?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Once we see the fight then we will know



Sasuke a clansem of Itachi broke out of Tsukuyomi wether you wanna believe it or not

I know he escaped it, you can call it breaking it, but I wouldnt call it breaking it if Itachi didnt use tsukoyomi seriously...And still, even if sasuke broke out, the manga still nowhere says that only a clansman can break it.

 

[Champ]

I know he escaped it, you can call it breaking it, but I wouldnt call it breaking it if Itachi didnt use tsukoyomi seriously...And still, even if sasuke broke out, the manga still nowhere says that only a clansman can break it.

Ok well nothing you say will change my view on what the manga said so your free to believe what you want

 

[Scooby Doo]

Ok well nothing you say will change my view on what the manga said so your free to believe what you want

But the manga said that tsukoyomi cannot be beaten !!!!And nowhere said that a clansman can break it!!!! So actually you contradict the manga, not me....

 

[Anorien16]

Well let us make a proper observation:

1. What are genjutsu?

Genjutsu (幻術; Literally meaning "Illusionary Techniques") are techniques that are employed in the same fashion as ninjutsu, requiring chakra and hand seals. However, the primary difference between the two is that the effects of genjutsu are illusory; instead of attacking the victim's body, like taijutsu or ninjutsu, genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses.
Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind, thereby affecting their five senses.

2. How can a genjutsu be broken?

To combat the effects of genjutsu, there are several options:

a.The ninja needs to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the caster's chakra; this is called Genjutsu Dissipation (幻術解, Genjutsu Kai). This can also be done by an unaffected ninja by applying a sudden surge of chakra into the affected person. In addition, tailed beasts can break their jinchūriki out of genjutsu in a similar fashion if they have a good enough cooperation, as seen in Killer B's case.
b.Another is through intense pain not caused by the genjutsu and utilising the resulting pain to bring their senses back in order (of the first two options, the latter seems more effective in most situations, or at least is the easiest).
c.Another option is accessible only to Sharingan wielders. Members of the Uchiha clan can break or see through genjutsu using their Sharingan. Breaking Tsukuyomi is possible with an ordinary Sharingan, but requires a lot of skill.
d.Sharingan wielders can also use their dōjutsu to liberate any ally caught in an enemy genjutsu by casting their own genjutsu on them, literally breaking into the illusionary world they are imprisoned in order to free them. This can be achieved through eye contact alone.[3]
e.Ordinary people can sometimes train their eyes (without Sharingan) to break genjutsu through unknown means, like Deidara.
f.One can prevent a person from casting genjutsu using obstructive techniques like the Hiding in Mist Technique to prevent one from being trapped by an ocular genjutsu as Zabuza demonstrated against Kakashi.
e.In the anime it was shown that strong smells like that from the Chilli Pepper Bombs, can counteract genjutsu.

In spite of these methods, some forms of genjutsu like Itachi's Tsukuyomi and Shima and Fukasaku's Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant may not be broken easily, either due to their near-instant effect like the former, or their ability to render one unconscious and paralysed altogether like the latter. In addition, one must realise that he or she is under the effects of genjutsu before attempting to break out of it. This can be done by observing the changes in one's own chakra like Karin's chakra-sensing ability.

But Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the Prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can.

CONCLUSION: IF ur caught in TSUKOYOMI ur practically dead.

3. Now lets consider Nagato's special cases:

a. Nagato share the vision field of the six paths, but is putting one genjutsu on one path is enough to put them all in genjutsu? Remember genjutsu needs to controls one's chakra system, so is controlling one paths chakra system system enough to control the chakra system of all the paths? I dont think so as the paths share only the same field of vision nothing else. Also nagato can just stop transfering chakra to a path and 'restart' it to get it to normal, as they are puppets not living things and can feel pain.
b. Nagato can do a non mammal summon like a reptile or a bug to use their field of vision and keep his eyes closed to aviod genjutsu. This wld work as only mammals are affected by genjutsu not others.
c. The cyborg path may be immune to genjutsu as he is part machine.


Side: Note Itachi said that only a clansman can break out of his Tsuki (on his own) but is nagato with his six paths?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Well let us make a proper observation:

1. What are genjutsu?

Genjutsu (幻術; Literally meaning "Illusionary Techniques") are techniques that are employed in the same fashion as ninjutsu, requiring chakra and hand seals. However, the primary difference between the two is that the effects of genjutsu are illusory; instead of attacking the victim's body, like taijutsu or ninjutsu, genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses.
Genjutsu is created when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind, thereby affecting their five senses.

2. How can a genjutsu be broken?

To combat the effects of genjutsu, there are several options:

The ninja needs to stop the flow of chakra in their body, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the caster's chakra; this is called Genjutsu Dissipation (幻術解, Genjutsu Kai). This can also be done by an unaffected ninja by applying a sudden surge of chakra into the affected person. In addition, tailed beasts can break their jinchūriki out of genjutsu in a similar fashion if they have a good enough cooperation, as seen in Killer B's case.
Another is through intense pain not caused by the genjutsu and utilising the resulting pain to bring their senses back in order (of the first two options, the latter seems more effective in most situations, or at least is the easiest).
Another option is accessible only to Sharingan wielders. Members of the Uchiha clan can break or see through genjutsu using their Sharingan. Breaking Tsukuyomi is possible with an ordinary Sharingan, but requires a lot of skill.
Sharingan wielders can also use their dōjutsu to liberate any ally caught in an enemy genjutsu by casting their own genjutsu on them, literally breaking into the illusionary world they are imprisoned in order to free them. This can be achieved through eye contact alone.[3]
Ordinary people can sometimes train their eyes (without Sharingan) to break genjutsu through unknown means, like Deidara.
One can prevent a person from casting genjutsu using obstructive techniques like the Hiding in Mist Technique to prevent one from being trapped by an ocular genjutsu as Zabuza demonstrated against Kakashi.
In the anime it was shown that strong smells like that from the Chilli Pepper Bombs, can counteract genjutsu.

In spite of these methods, some forms of genjutsu like Itachi's Tsukuyomi and Shima and Fukasaku's Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant may not be broken easily, either due to their near-instant effect like the former, or their ability to render one unconscious and paralysed altogether like the latter. In addition, one must realise that he or she is under the effects of genjutsu before attempting to break out of it. This can be done by observing the changes in one's own chakra like Karin's chakra-sensing ability.

But Because genjutsu affects activity throughout the Prosencephalon structure of the brain, humans, dogs and other species of mammal are therefore all affected by genjutsu; however, the kikaichū, like all insects, lack such a structure to their brains, and so do not even notice it: as Shino Aburame put it, insects are ruled almost solely by five powerful senses alone, which makes them immune to genjutsu and gives the Aburame clan an ability to detect it when nobody else can.

CONCLUSION: IF ur caught in TSUKOYOMI ur practically dead.

3. Now lets consider Nagato's special cases:

a. Nagato share the vision field of the six paths, but is putting one genjutsu on one path is enough to put them all in genjutsu? Remember genjutsu controls one's chakra system, so is controlling one paths chakra system system enough to control the chakra system of all the paths? I dont think so as the paths share only the same field of vision nothing else. Also nagato can just stop transfering chakra to a path and 'restart' it to get it to normal, as they are puppets not living things and can feel pain.
b. Nagato can do a non mammal summon like a reptile or a bug to use their field of vision and keep his eyes closed to aviod genjutsu. This wld work as only mammals are affected by genjutsu not others.
c. The cyborg path may be immune to genjutsu as he is part machine.


Side: Note Itachi said that only a clansman can break out of his Tsuki (on his own) but is nagato with his six paths?

1)Agree
2)Itachi never said that.Or link the manga page.

 

[Anorien16]

1)Agree
2)Itachi never said that.Or link the manga page.

2. Itachi was speaking to indivisully to kakashi not to the whole group. So doesnt that mean: "kakashi u cant break out of Tsukiomi even if u have sharingan as ur not a natural user"

So it means no 'individual' can not break out of Tsuki. But with aid may recover sooner.

Also try to prove that unlike all genjutsu Tsuki and its after effects can not be broken by a outside agent. If i remember right Tsuki is still a genjutsu and has the limitation of all genjutsu.

 

[Scooby Doo]

2. Itachi was speaking to indivisully to kakashi not to the whole group. So doesnt that mean: "kakashi u cant break out of Tsukiomi even if u have sharingan as ur not a natural user"

So it means no 'individual' can break out of Tsuki. But with aid may recover sooner.

Also try to prove that unlike all genjutsu Tsuki and its after effects can not be broken by a outside agent. If i remember right Tsuki is still a genjutsu and has the limitation of all genjutsu.

I agree with the part that it can be broken from outside, but its not 100%. But remember that in reality it takes only a second, so the victim will be dead before anyone could break it.
And Itachi said that his tsukoyomi cannot be beaten, and when he referred to clansmen with sharingan, he didnt say that they can break out tsukoyomi, he just said that they could defeat him.

 

[Anorien16]

I agree with the part that it can be broken from outside, but its not 100%. But remember that in reality it takes only a second, so the victim will be dead before anyone could break it.
And Itachi said that his tsukoyomi cannot be beaten, and when he referred to clansmen with sharingan, he didnt say that they can break out tsukoyomi, he just said that they could defeat him.

No i was only refering to the aftereffects of tsuki (Tsuki can not kill, but may cause a kind of 'brain death' due to the pain), tsuiki itself can not be broken as its instataneous, i myself said that. But as Nagato isnt alone or paths are not living, Nagato has a good chance of fighting. Also remember tsuki needs eye contact with the real victim Nagato, eye contact with any of the paths or his summons wld not give any control over Nagato's chakra system.

 

[Scooby Doo]

No i was only refering to the aftereffects of tsuki (Tsuki can not kill, but may cause a kind of 'brain death' due to the pain), tsuiki itself can not be broken as its instataneous, i myself said that. But as Nagato isnt alone or paths are not living, Nagato has a good chance of fighting. Also remember tsuki needs eye contact with the real victim Nagato, eye contact with any of the paths or his summons wld not give any control over Nagato's chakra system.

1)Then sorry I misunderstood
2)Youre right , but its effect was so strong that only Tsunade could heal it
3)I said I agree with this.

 

[Anorien16]

1)Then sorry I misunderstood
2)Youre right , but its effect was so strong that only Tsunade could heal it
3)I said I agree with this.

No probs my friend i was in hurry to type and my lang was not clear. So the apology shld be mine. So sorry ::ghehe:

 

[Scooby Doo]

No probs my friend i was in hurry to type and my lang was not clear. So the apology shld be mine. So sorry ::ghehe:

No its just fine

 

[SasukeUchiha5]

Just because you have sharingan doesn't mean you can break Tsukiyomi. It's just that Sasuke has advanced greatly more than a normal sharingan user. Same thing with Itachi with normal sharingan before obtaining MS he had advanced way beyond a normal sharingan user.

As stated by Zetsu " A weapon is only as strong as it's user". Like he said a kunai threw by an beginner is not the same as a pebble through by a master. Sasuke has far passed Itachi's expectations.

 

[Anorien16]

Just because you have sharingan doesn't mean you can break Tsukiyomi. It's just that Sasuke has advanced greatly more than a normal sharingan user. Same thing with Itachi with normal sharingan before obtaining MS he had advanced way beyond a normal sharingan user.

As stated by Zetsu " A weapon is only as strong as it's user". Like he said a kunai threw by an beginner is not the same as a pebble through by a master. Sasuke has far passed Itachi's expectations.

That may be but sasuke is not the genjutsu master that itachi is. Though he can use his low power Tsuki effectively enough. But arnt we talking about Itachi?

 

[Munboy]

Nagato is the third Rikudou. To be a Rikudou you need Uchiha and Senju powes/DNA.

Just thought I'd throw at out there.

 

[endo]

Are you honestly this stupid? First trinkling blood wont necessarily ruin your eyesight. This is shown when Sasuke uses his EMS there is still blood but his eyesight does not get worse. Itachi's shuriken techniques surpassed the vision of the rennigan.

If he fought with his eyes closed he would die. It doesn't matter if you are a sensory type. You will die if you are not fast enough to dodge the amaterasu like the 4th raikage did when he fought sasuke.

FIRST OF ALL SASUKE DOES NOT USE TSUKUYOMI! You moron! He uses regular sharingan genjutsu! He has blaze control in one eye and amaterasu in the other! That's also why he used Sharingan genjutsu on Itachi while Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Sasuke to escape the genjutsu. Am I the only one who reads the manga?

The only reason bee got out of Sasuke's SHARINGAN GENJUTSU was because he is a jinchuriki. As stated in the manga.

YOU DO NOT NEED TSUKUYOMI AND AMATERASU TO GET SUSANOO! You moron! You just need an MS on each eye stated by sasuke when he was fighting the 4th raikage.

Yes Itachi fought both a rennigan user and a jinchuriki.......Naruto, Bee, and Nagato...

P.S my spelling may be inaccurate.

 

[Munboy]

Tsukuyomi seems to be a universal MS jutsu.

Sasuke used a Genjutsu (Tsukuyomi, going by the visuals) and Amaterasu against Bee. Later he tells us he wants to test something; something Juugo confirms was Susanoo.

This means Sasuke had Susanoo before he had Kagutsuchi. Therefore Kagutsuchi and Amaterasu were not the jutsu Sasuke used to awaken Susanoo. It was his MS Genjutsu (which is probably Tsukuyomi going by the general comments around it from all sources) and Amaterasu which had him awaken Susanoo.


Tsukuyomi was beaten by a Jinchuriki, it isn't a shocker. MS jutsu aren't invincible, plus simply saying Sasuke didn't use Tsukuyomi because it was beaten isn't a good argument. If jutsu such as Susanoo and Amaterasu, along with Kamui can be challenged; if jutsu like Kotoamatsukami can be overridden by Edo tags or telling the victim they're under Genjutsu (Mifune).
Then why should Tsukuyomi be untouchable? Especially when there was a battle where it was probably overcome - B vs Sasuke.

 

[Anorien16]

Are you honestly this stupid? First trinkling blood wont necessarily ruin your eyesight. This is shown when Sasuke uses his EMS there is still blood but his eyesight does not get worse. Itachi's shuriken techniques surpassed the vision of the rennigan.

If he fought with his eyes closed he would die. It doesn't matter if you are a sensory type. You will die if you are not fast enough to dodge the amaterasu like the 4th raikage did when he fought sasuke.

FIRST OF ALL SASUKE DOES NOT USE TSUKUYOMI! You moron! He uses regular sharingan genjutsu! He has blaze control in one eye and amaterasu in the other! That's also why he used Sharingan genjutsu on Itachi while Itachi used Tsukuyomi on Sasuke to escape the genjutsu. Am I the only one who reads the manga?

The only reason bee got out of Sasuke's SHARINGAN GENJUTSU was because he is a jinchuriki. As stated in the manga.

YOU DO NOT NEED TSUKUYOMI AND AMATERASU TO GET SUSANOO! You moron! You just need an MS on each eye stated by sasuke when he was fighting the 4th raikage.

Yes Itachi fought both a rennigan user and a jinchuriki.......Naruto, Bee, and Nagato...

P.S my spelling may be inaccurate.

But the databook wld disagree with that part.

Also Shrinra tensei can blow the amaterasu off. But isnt this a tsuki thread? Dont bring irrelevant topics up and call ppl names.

 

[Hikari Inori]

You guys is it possible for naruto to earn Rinnegan? like unlock it somehow cause it would be awsome if he had it haha he already has the sealings of the sixth Sage