you are briniging the same BS over and over again which i have already addressed over 3 times,
Lol No you haven't, & no matter what you call it you still can't refute it. U_U
obito is not magically awakening intangibility when he has no way of even telling where he is getting attacked,
Yes he is, as I have proven
and even if obito has a slight part solidified, muu can perfectly attack him there thanks to his sensing enabling him to locate him just fine, and Kamuis limit just gets bypassed by muu
Lol this doesn't change anything. Minato needed to be instant in order to bypass intangibility, muu isn't doing the same here. Sensing enabling him to attack obito? Lmao really?
@Bold - since when has intangibility ever been an automatic jutsu?
- Since it's been shown that it can activate even if obito is unaware of the incoming attack [
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- Since it's been shown in ch: 605 that it activated on it's own as soon as obito awakened the mangekyou [
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- Since it's been shown in ch: 606 that obito had to manually turn it off after failing to touch rin [
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It's automatic unless he deactivates it himself
obito actually has to activate it,
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Wrong, he has avoided attacks from his blindspots, meaning he had no way of knowing when to use intangibility during those moments. Since this is an established fact, that means invisibility will yield the same result.
& Again, Idk why you're using minato as an example. As I already stated minato can bypass intangibility due to moving instantly. He teleported behind obito & hit him as he deactivated his intangibility, then once obito was marked that means minato was able to teleport to obito instantly, thus bypassing kamui's defense.
Muu can't move instantly, so he can't bypass kamui the same way that minato did, muu still has a normal striking speed & as I have shown kamui can avoid non-instantaneous attacks even with obito being unaware of them.
and @Bold Lol - ur using the same fanfic obito sensing again, when he has no way of ''sensing'' or locating muu,,
Lol Are you ignoring my points on purpose? Again...As I said, kamui does all the work for him, he can't sense anything so enough of your assertions, kamui doesn't rely on obito's five senses [smell, touch, taste, sight, sound] not sensory abilities... U_U
he wont know where or when to prevent himself or activate intangibility here, meaning that muu attacks him just fine, and obito wont be doing shit,
He doesn't need to, kamui activates once muu gets close enough to attack just like in canon, & Once it does obito can then do [
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Lmao invisibility which has no stated time frame unlike kamui, as well as the fact that muu wont even be using any chakra based attacks whilst he is invisible would somehow magically run out before obito? especially when all he needs is one well coordinated attack from his kenjutsu to behead obito Lol, please, stop.
Smh
- So what if kamui has a time frame? That doesn't mean it costs more chakra than invisibility, irrelevant point
- Show me scans of kamui draining obito's chakra, as far as we know it takes just as little chakra to activate it as invisibility does, then on top of that add in the fact that obito has senju reserves & we can see the clear gap when comparing the two.
- Compare muu's feats to obito's feats, muu can only use a few jintons at best before he runs out of chakra [
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]. Obito controlled multiple bijuu, the gedo statue, the juubi, fought two jinchuuriki, the SA, & kakashi on a seperate occasion, & throughout all of that he still had enough chakra to produce juubi level katons & use intangibility nonstop during his battles.
You're telling me that a shinobi who can't even use two consecutive jintons is able to compete with the chakra feats that obito's shown us?? Now do you get why I can't take you seriously? You're just plain ignorant to compare muu's chakra levels to obito's, let alone say he would be outlasted by him.
if thats ur only claim of basis then you need a new one or you just concede,
by that logic kamui drains chakra as well
And as I have proven kamui is nowhere near as taxing on obito as invisibility would be on muu due to the massive gap between the two chakra wise. Muu doesn't have senju reserves, & muu hasn't done anything that one could consider a comparable feat to what obito showed us. The evidence points towards muu having much less chakra than obito, by feats & by portrayal.
Btw, obito can warp to his dimension at any time to refill his chakra, but this point is only needed if you can somehow properly explain how muu will outlast obito [which isn't happening under any circumstances].
No its not, the raiton infused kunai example was already addressed and debunked yet you clearly ignored that,
Because that's only one out of multiple & I already addressed it previously before you brought it back up for some reason. Anyways I want to move on so unless you can debunk every single example I provided then this is irrelevant. There are still multiple scans that support my argument therefore my interpretation is much more likely [kamui activated for obito] than yours [obito activated it because he heard the kunai, despite being completely focused on grabbing naruto].
and no, kamui being automatic is also fanfic, and just pure BS
Based on what? Give me your evidence... Lol, already provided scans of obito's kamui activating without his knowing, & I provided a scan of obito having to deactivate it in order to touch rin.
There is overwhelming evidence in my favor, yet I see no support on your end to even make a decent rebuttal.
and Lol ofc hes getting hit by invisbility attacks when he has no way of perceiving them, meaning that he is not activating his intangiblity properly therefore he gets killed
He doesn't need to activate it as I established, so enough repeating yourself, either move on or stop replying.
Yes im listening, and i have addressed ur points, yet it seems like you have ignored my points and are just blabberring on an on about obito winning yet yu have no arguments at all,
Yet I'm the one with the relevant evidence here? Good lord kifflom I thought you were one of the decent 2014 members here, looks like I was severely mistaken if you're going to blatantly disregard everything I said. If I had no arguments then why are you still debating in the first place? Flawed logic & redundancy on your part, you already tried your best to explain how muu wins so if I have no argument according to you then you should have dropped this debate [p]ages ago.
Because katons and mokutons are restrictted in this match up, he has no other way of attacking him,
Doesn't change anything I said, never mentioned either jutsu once.
and Lol Muu would have fission here, if obito does magically use izanagi here, and warp one of muus clone, then not only can he get attacked from the other dimension but with muu having intel he can simply wait for him to run out and then kill him
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough, obito uses izanagi if he already has one clone in his dimension, albeit in a weakened state as to avoid the same thing with kakashi, but obito is not leaving a healthy clone with full intel in his dimension, especially if that clone can fly.
You bringing out the obito was acting ''stupid'' is just a pitiful excuse,
Obito never acted stupid, kakashi was low on chakra & so obito warped him away, he figured kakashi was too weak to do anything in the first place. Obito wasn't stupid here, he was actually smart, he just didn't anticipate kurama's chakra sharing.
he has no way of telling the difference between a real and a fission, meaning that he will fall for the same trick again if he does manage to warp a clone
As I said he isn't an idiot, he will wait for muu to tire out then either let him split, warp both clones at once, or warp one then izanagi with the other... Or maybe even izanagi both since he has 10 minutes of invincibility.
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if he cant percieve muu, then he cant tell where he is getting attacked from, meaning that he gets attacked and killed before he hopes of landing a single blow on him,
Lol Wow, how many times are you going to repeat this? Ill just give you the same response until you either accept it or debunk every single scan regarding obito being attacked from his blindspots;
Obito has used kamui to avoid attacks that he was unaware of in the past, being invisible doesn't change that, not even a little bit.
he is getting attacked just how he did against minato
Not unless muu can move instantaneously.
and Lol speed has nothing to do here, and you bringing that out is just ridiculous
Again wrong, speed has everything to do here.
His sensing speed is fast enough to sense the oncoming attack and even evade it, thats pretty good,
Nothing a normal sensor can't do.
the attack still has speed, which even someone of third raikages speed failed to evade, yet muu evaded it,
Muu evaded it due to his sensory abilities
+ reaction time, raikage had no way to anticipate the attack, muu did. If muu didn't evade it then it would just mean that he's a slow character, not that his sensing is worse than what you showed me.
so yeah its still valid since it has to do with sensing and reflexes something that you questioned me about,
No I questioned you about how fast muu can sense an attack as opposed to karin, & that has nothing to do with reflexes. There is nothing suggesting that karin would be unable to sense the same thing that muu did which is my point.
Nope its both seeing as how he sensed naruto early and fast enough to allow him to even evade his attack,
He sensed naruto early? I'm sorry but I must have missed the scan where he stated that. Anyways my point is that because muu allowed naruto to get so close [the closer an enemy is = the more danger you're in] that means he was either unable to sense him until then, or naruto was moving so fast that muu was having a hard time keeping up with him.
So in other words this isn't a significant sensing feat, it's merely a decent speed feat.
him being able to sense naruto alone means that his sensing is top notch, and him evading it just tops it up even more,
Lol? How does being able to sense naruto have any relevance? Chakra is chakra, just because naruto's chakra moves fast doesn't mean that normal sensors can't pick up on it so I fail to see your point. As shown through karin, sensors can detect chakra disturbances almost immediately. Just because naruto can run fast doesn't mean he can't be sensed by others.
and Lol karin has not shown sensing feats faster than muu, its plausible to say that her sensing can be better but that doesnt mean its faster
Show me where I stated in this entire thread that karin can sense faster than muu? The evidence & common sense tells us that all sensors sense chakra disturbances/anomalies at the exact same time which is near instant, as shown through karin who noticed danzo's chakra drop immediately.
Yes muu has faster reflexes than karin, but he can't sense any faster than she can, therefore the fact that she couldn't sense obito means that muu can't either.
Denial at its absolute finest, Muu sensed the attack before it occurreed, so the nagato example isnt helping,
You're the one in denial if you believe this changes anything. But first I want you to prove it, prove that muu was able to sense the attack before it began [not before it hit madara].
But in any case I believe based on the evidence that all sensors are equal in terms of "sensing speed", so muu probably did sense it before it occurred. However just like with the previous two paragraphs you missed my point again. Sensors can sense chakra disturbances immediately meaning they all have relatively the same speed when it comes to that, meaning if karin failed to sense obito then muu would be in the exact same situation, unless of course you can prove that muu is a faster sensor than karin.
I hope you don't miss my point next time. U_U
and muu senseed an attack much quicker than amaterasu and with a chakra built up much smaller than it as well, all of this was sensed well before it was executed,
Regardless if he sensed quicker than ama, nagato sensed the build up, karin senses immediate chakra disturbances [same thing basically], therefore if muu sensed the build up in ay's attack then he's only fulfilling the prerequisite of every decent sensor ever. Meaning he can't sense faster than karin & he will end up in the same situation as her.
karin couldnt even percieve V2 Ays movements despite being a sensor, however muu clearly sensed lightened Ay who is faster,
Would love evidence of the bold, because as far as I know karin was never unable to perceive ay in V2. She sensed him during two instances & both times she was still able to sense him before he landed his attacks, same with cee. [
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Besides muu as a sensor should be able to sense the build up before onoki & ay charged in for the attack regardless, just like any other sensor would. Therefore this doesn't make his sensory abilities any faster than karin's or nagato's, or cee's even.
your funny questioning of muus sensing speed is just funny when he is one of the best non-god sensors in the manga
& Yet I have established that anyone with sensory capabilities can sense chakra disturbances immediately, what determines if they can avoid the attack or not is their reflexes/reaction time.
Until you give me a scan of muu clearly sensing faster than any other sensor then he will sense at the same speed as karin, cee, sages, hell even juubi jins sense at the same speed as everyone else, but they're obviously much faster at reacting.
& Before you go on trying to undermine that statement or claim I'm being a fanboy think about it with some logic for a second. Sensing is, well a sense [sight, sound, etc.] therefore it would make sense if the same principles apply to it. & If that's the case then sensing would be the same thing as sight where everybody sees the same thing occur at the exact same time due to the speed of light which is consistent for everyone, everything else is determined by reflexes.
Now take that concept to sensing, it would be illogical to say that two people can sense the same thing at different times. It makes much more sense however to say that there's a speed at which chakra manifests/builds up & that speed is consistent for everyone, like the speed of light or sound. Therefore the only thing that determines whether "sensor A" is faster than "sensor B" is their reflexes/reaction time.
THen he would automatically lose due to BFR
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U_U
Battlefield removal; Muu can only cause a BFR if there is a set boundary that obito isn't allowed to cross or if muu somehow forces obito into a location where he can't escape from.
In actual fact,
obito is the one who would beat muu due to BFR because he's forcing muu into another dimension that he can't esacape from. If you can escape from it, then it isn't a BFR.
Lmao why wont he exactly?
Because karin didn't & I already established why sensors sense at the same speed. Nothing in the manga suggests otherwise either.
Obito sends his body parts to the real dimension, then muu senses their chakra just how any sensor can,
What? This doesn't even make sense within the context of my quote. Obito warped faster than karin could sense, phasing underground to another location removes muu's chances at tracking him, & finally if muu does sense obito then he still can't hit him. This response was irrelevant.
and seeing how hinata was able to locate obito once he solidified should be clear enough that muu can sense
The bold is what you're not understanding, we have no idea for how long he was solid, when obito is able to perform a much better feat by becoming solid in front of a sensor then this makes the hinata example outdated & irrelevant. We know he can warp faster than sensors can sense, so just because hinata saw him off panel after he solidified doesn't automatically mean she can do it if she was in karin's position.
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just because i state that one character beats the other doesnt make me a ''wanker'' Lol
I just smell butthurt here,
No it's because you said that a much less equipped character [one of your favs] has any chance against muu [most likely another one of your favs, could be wrong though U_U] while obito has none despite showing all the techniques required to effectively counter him. If that doesn't reek of wank then Idk what would.
Susanoo is more durable than Obitos body, so there is no wank here,
Well I didn't know that susanoo can be maintained forever? /sarcasm :| The wank is getting obvious at this point. So itachi can somehow magically maintain susanoo for a longer period of time than muu can become invisible now? So that means [according to you]:
A] Susanoo is a better defense than kamui :|
B] Itachi can last longer than muu who can last longer than obito :|
I don't even know what I'm reading anymore...
What scans? because what i have seen, show no relevance to obito attacking muu at all,
Reread the thread then because they're clearly there. Obito avoiding an attack from behind isn't relevant to an invisible opponent attacking him? Smh
yet you say that im ignorannt Lol please bring forth an argument, otherwise just stop
I already have on multiple occasions, now counter them or stop wasting my time.
i have already addressed this, stop repeating the same BS over and over again
No you havent, your examples were rubbish, you haven't proven in any way that muu is a faster sensor, please if you say you've addressed the points then at least address them.
Lol how does he do that exactlly? oh wait he doesnt
Lol Nice argument.
because 5mins are not enough for muu to get outlasted,
Then obito resets as I have stated multiple times
he simply stays within close proximity to obito and attacks him the moment he solidifes
Obito phases underground then muu completely loses his location, meaning obito can appear a mile away from the battlefield to reset if he wishes & muu can't do sh*t.
again, there have been no examples or scans from you in both of ur previous posts, and any of ur mentioned scans had already been debunked in the previous posts,
Then how about you address the scans on page one, the ones I was talking about in the first place? You only gave one possible excuse for the kunai example yet you believe that my other scans have been debunked as well? Lol addressing one scan =/= shattering the overwhelming evidence against you.
and No, youre the one who seems to be too reluctant to admit that obito loses here, just bcz hes ur fav doesnt mean that he is invincible,
Where did I ever say that obito is invincible? I will admit when obito loses but it isn't here. & My opinion on obito's character has no effect on how I debate for him, however I tend to go more in-depth with him than usual, but that's because of the many possibilities regarding kamui. That doesn't make me biased, especially when I've brought solid arguments with legitimate support to the table.
either brring something new, or concede otherwise im not wasting my time,
Then don't waste your time, doesn't bother me. I don't need to bring anything new when you haven't even addressed the old.
Not really because those attacks were either seen by obito or had clearly prominent things like shape size or sound that enabled obito to phase through them
[
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] Now what's your excuse gonna be this time? Obito heard them falling from the sky? Lol
Chances are that obito proceeds to attack him head on, and gets killed within the first blow
Obito will not attack someone who has full info on his abilities & invisibility head on, plus muu isn't touching obito so muu gets killed in the end.
and 5-10 mins are never outlasting muu, especially when invisibility would barely take a toll on him
Obito easily resets, any other points?
nope, all ur argument has is that obito can magically activate kamui, and attack muu,
Magically? There's no magic to it, that's just how his ability works as demonstrated.
and that invisibility drains muu completely when chances are that muu can simply spam it for long periods
Doesn't matter, muu's reserves <<< Obito's so the length of the battle is irrelevant here, the only thing that matters is that muu will eventually get tired before obito will.
Proven what? ur fanboyism, i dont think i need to
Still haven't seen a single argument debunking my supported claims. Okay you believe I'm a fanboy, well that's just your opinion. But I know that when someone can't rebut my arguments & then resorts to calling me a fanboy based on nothing other than losing said argument, that means I've ultimately won in the end.
Thats why he has his susanoo activated, so that he could tank the sword based attacks
So as I said earlier this means you believe that itachi can outlast obito then? Lol
and comeon man, ur just being reluctant now, the fact that you even brought another thread into this is just beyond me,
I brought it here to prove your bias which is clear as day. You think susanoo > kamui in terms of defense & you think itachi > obito in chakra reserves. How can anyone expect to come to you for an opinion when it's that skewed?
i expected more from you, i thought yu wud be a decent debater but i guess i was wrong
& I expected a somewhat decent debate with a seemingly logical 2014 member, not a sh*t slinging contest with another ignorant one who thinks they know nothing but the truth.
**Note to all 2014 members: Not all 2014's are bad & I don't generalize, but a good amount of the one's I've seen are missing some basic common knowledge.**
Kinda are
again, his susanoo prevents him from the attacks,
Again, so itachi's chakra reserves > muu's > obito's according to you? Lol I'm done here.
and i dont see why ur bringiin this thread here, i have stated multiple times that im iffy on muu vs itachi, however this battle is definitely being won by muu thats for sure
Really? because I don't remember you ever saying it was iffy, you confidently gave itachi the win in your initial post which was your unaltered opinion.
& No it's not, not when you can't even rebut the fact that invisible attacks don't work on obito. You have given me next to nothing in response, you haven't disproved any of my points, & worst of all you think I have no argument here to begin with. Laughable, simply laughable.
